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Post by terryconroysmagic on Oct 25, 2020 19:09:56 GMT
That's like saying let's not bother to mark anyone at a corner because they haven't scored yet! Anyway I get it, I kind of was in your roll with the punches camp but it has become increasingly to clear to me that as long as this virus is around the economy will just shut itself down in the end anyway if our hospitals start over flowing. I may be wrong, I often am, but this is just what my gut is telling me. It depends on the R rate of Covid in my view, if you take both the Flu and Covid and compare the two on how much stress they have on the NHS then Covid can only have an equal or less deadly impact than flu if the R rate is equivalent or lower to flu in a normal year. If the R rate of Covid remains higher than flu than in a normal year then hospital admissions will increase at a much faster rate so even if this week hospital levels are normal then if Covid has an higher R rate then hospitals will fill up much faster in the following weeks than normal unless that rate is bought down. That's how I see it anyway. That would only be if they were like for like illnesses, I don't know if there is a hospital rate per disease, Covid for now appears to put more people in hospital than flu. That’s a reasonable point. I’d rebut it by saying invest in a proper health system that can cope. I’m sure all the money needed to support the restrictions could have massively increased hospital capacity and staff numbers
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Post by thisisouryear on Oct 25, 2020 19:22:23 GMT
It depends on the R rate of Covid in my view, if you take both the Flu and Covid and compare the two on how much stress they have on the NHS then Covid can only have an equal or less deadly impact than flu if the R rate is equivalent or lower to flu in a normal year. If the R rate of Covid remains higher than flu than in a normal year then hospital admissions will increase at a much faster rate so even if this week hospital levels are normal then if Covid has an higher R rate then hospitals will fill up much faster in the following weeks than normal unless that rate is bought down. That's how I see it anyway. That would only be if they were like for like illnesses, I don't know if there is a hospital rate per disease, Covid for now appears to put more people in hospital than flu. That’s a reasonable point. I’d rebut it by saying invest in a proper health system that can cope. I’m sure all the money needed to support the restrictions could have massively increased hospital capacity and staff numbers The thing with Covid is that it can take out hospital staff for weeks or even months. How does isolation work or are hospital staff given more freedom. I might be completely wrong to assume and probably am but hospital staff should get flu jabs every year anyway. It does need investment but it looks like it is being pushed towards a private health service. Interesting that Churchill was so against the NHS and his grandson is top man at Serco which seems to have one foot through the door.
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Post by werrington on Oct 25, 2020 19:35:28 GMT
That’s a reasonable point. I’d rebut it by saying invest in a proper health system that can cope. I’m sure all the money needed to support the restrictions could have massively increased hospital capacity and staff numbers The thing with Covid is that it can take out hospital staff for weeks or even months. How does isolation work or are hospital staff given more freedom. I might be completely wrong to assume and probably am but hospital staff should get flu jabs every year anyway. It does need investment but it looks like it is being pushed towards a private health service. Interesting that Churchill was so against the NHS and his grandson is top man at Serco which seems to have one foot through the door. We have to follow the same rules as everybody in regards self isolating but only if we come into contact out of work as we have PPE in work so that doesn’t happen We do get a flu jab every year
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Post by thisisouryear on Oct 25, 2020 19:38:19 GMT
The thing with Covid is that it can take out hospital staff for weeks or even months. How does isolation work or are hospital staff given more freedom. I might be completely wrong to assume and probably am but hospital staff should get flu jabs every year anyway. It does need investment but it looks like it is being pushed towards a private health service. Interesting that Churchill was so against the NHS and his grandson is top man at Serco which seems to have one foot through the door. We have to follow the same rules as everybody in regards self isolating but only if we come into contact out of work as we have PPE in work so that doesn’t happen We do get a flu jab every year Do you have to have other jabs too being more vulnerable to diseases than most people?
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Post by werrington on Oct 25, 2020 19:45:42 GMT
We have to follow the same rules as everybody in regards self isolating but only if we come into contact out of work as we have PPE in work so that doesn’t happen We do get a flu jab every year Do you have to have other jabs too being more vulnerable to diseases than most people? No mate
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Post by Gary Hackett on Oct 25, 2020 20:42:48 GMT
He's providing data pure and simple, data which the government openly admit they are basing their policy decisions on. And when it comes to data and hospital admissions, can you please provide the following information ... 1. How many of those patients have been admitted to hospital BECAUSE of Covid and how many of them have simply tested positive for Covid due to them being routinely tested whilst being admitted for something else entirely and aren't actually sick from Covid at all? 2. How many of those patients caught Covid whilst being in hospital for something else? 3. How many of those patients have been admitted from care homes? 4. Provide a year on year comparison of how many patients would ordinarily be in hospital at this time of year with respiratory illnesses and demonstrate that today's figure is now considerably higher than it would ordinarily be? This data is extremely important if we're going to have a sensible discussion about how we go forwards. Here is one for you. How many covid deaths are no longer being reported since if you die but have not tested positive in the last 28 days for covid then you will no longer count as a covid death in wave 2. Presumably many people who ends up on a ventilator in hospital will limp on for 4 weeks or 4 months and if they ultimately turn up their toes after that they won't count as a covid death. Fact is you can play around at the minutiae of the numbers until the cows come home but cases in all the vulnerable age groups are rising, hospital admissions are rising and deaths are rising. Its no good mate, I've given up trying now. Just let them get on with it, it's not worth the hassle. I doubt the penny will even drop with some when the Welsh are enjoying the festive period because they've taken the necessary action whilst we're in full lockdown because we've been skirting around the issue for weeks with useless restrictions that only delay the inevitable.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Oct 25, 2020 21:02:08 GMT
I doubt the penny will even drop with some when the Welsh are enjoying the festive period because they've taken the necessary action whilst we're in full lockdown because we've been skirting around the issue for weeks with useless restrictions that only delay the inevitable.
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Post by bgreen13 on Oct 25, 2020 21:48:39 GMT
Here is one for you. How many covid deaths are no longer being reported since if you die but have not tested positive in the last 28 days for covid then you will no longer count as a covid death in wave 2. Presumably many people who ends up on a ventilator in hospital will limp on for 4 weeks or 4 months and if they ultimately turn up their toes after that they won't count as a covid death. Fact is you can play around at the minutiae of the numbers until the cows come home but cases in all the vulnerable age groups are rising, hospital admissions are rising and deaths are rising. Its no good mate, I've given up trying now. Just let them get on with it, it's not worth the hassle. I doubt the penny will even drop with some when the Welsh are enjoying the festive period because they've taken the necessary action whilst we're in full lockdown because we've been skirting around the issue for weeks with useless restrictions that only delay the inevitable. What's the inevitable?
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Oct 25, 2020 22:45:10 GMT
Its no good mate, I've given up trying now. Just let them get on with it, it's not worth the hassle. I doubt the penny will even drop with some when the Welsh are enjoying the festive period because they've taken the necessary action whilst we're in full lockdown because we've been skirting around the issue for weeks with useless restrictions that only delay the inevitable. What's the inevitable? Lockdown
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Post by Gods on Oct 25, 2020 22:48:17 GMT
Here is one for you. How many covid deaths are no longer being reported since if you die but have not tested positive in the last 28 days for covid then you will no longer count as a covid death in wave 2. Presumably many people who ends up on a ventilator in hospital will limp on for 4 weeks or 4 months and if they ultimately turn up their toes after that they won't count as a covid death. Fact is you can play around at the minutiae of the numbers until the cows come home but cases in all the vulnerable age groups are rising, hospital admissions are rising and deaths are rising. Aren’t you continually tested in hospital ? I did wonder about that as I posted my question! If someone gets put in an enforced coma on a ventilator in an ICU ward would you bother to continue to test them for covid? I assumed perhaps you do not and therefore they would not meet the 'dead within 28 days of a positive covid test' criteria. But perhaps you do. I just thought once on a ventilator and in a coma then whether or not you still have the covid virus itself is probably the least of your problems. But I may be wrong.
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Post by Gods on Oct 25, 2020 22:58:54 GMT
Here is one for you. How many covid deaths are no longer being reported since if you die but have not tested positive in the last 28 days for covid then you will no longer count as a covid death in wave 2. Presumably many people who ends up on a ventilator in hospital will limp on for 4 weeks or 4 months and if they ultimately turn up their toes after that they won't count as a covid death. Fact is you can play around at the minutiae of the numbers until the cows come home but cases in all the vulnerable age groups are rising, hospital admissions are rising and deaths are rising. It absolutely isn't about playing around with the minutiae of the numbers at all. I find it extremely hard to believe that you cannot see, that if we're going to have a grown up discussion about the options available going forwards, then it is absolutely fundamental for us to furnish ourselves with the answers to the questions I have posted. To do anything else, is to simply shove your fingers in your ears and shout "la, la, la, I'm not listening and I don't even want to know." Honestly mate, I get it and I am sure you are asking all of the right questions. Probably the only difference is for all their undoubted gaps and faults I accept the broad thrust of the statistics on which policy is made and I think you increasingly don't. It's like when people say 'Where's the survey that proves X,Y or Z?' The answer most of the time is it doesn't exist. But this is a very new thing and there are things we do know about how and in what conditions the virus might spread from which policy can be derived.
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 25, 2020 23:06:16 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 25, 2020 23:25:51 GMT
It absolutely isn't about playing around with the minutiae of the numbers at all. I find it extremely hard to believe that you cannot see, that if we're going to have a grown up discussion about the options available going forwards, then it is absolutely fundamental for us to furnish ourselves with the answers to the questions I have posted. To do anything else, is to simply shove your fingers in your ears and shout "la, la, la, I'm not listening and I don't even want to know." Honestly mate, I get it and I am sure you are asking all of the right questions. Probably the only difference is for all their undoubted gaps and faults I accept the broad thrust of the statistics on which policy is made and I think you increasingly don't. It's like when people say 'Where's the survey that proves X,Y or Z?' The answer most of the time is it doesn't exist. But this is a very new thing and there are things we do know about how and in what conditions the virus might spread from which policy can be derived. You are absolutely correct. But my question, is why do you? Is it because it just makes it easier for you to do so, you can adopt a position, simply because you don't have to actually think about it too much? To tell you the truth, I'm not even adopting a position either way, I simply want to be furnished with some of the important data, so I can even begin to start considering a position.
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Post by Gods on Oct 25, 2020 23:49:08 GMT
Honestly mate, I get it and I am sure you are asking all of the right questions. Probably the only difference is for all their undoubted gaps and faults I accept the broad thrust of the statistics on which policy is made and I think you increasingly don't. It's like when people say 'Where's the survey that proves X,Y or Z?' The answer most of the time is it doesn't exist. But this is a very new thing and there are things we do know about how and in what conditions the virus might spread from which policy can be derived. You are absolutely correct. But my question, is why do you?Is it because it just makes it easier for you to do so, you can adopt a position, simply because you don't have to actually think about it too much? To tell you the truth, I'm not even adopting a position either way, I simply want to be furnished with some of the important data, so I can even begin to start considering a position. I think perhaps like you I don't accept the actual numbers. For example today we announced another 23,102 cases in the UK. Clearly that number massively underestimates the real number of new cases today. Most people with covid never get anywhere near a test, why would they, if they don't exhibit any symptoms they would not even know. But what I do accept is provided you keep measuring something in the same way the trends won't lie. So if I see cases going up (however we measure them) and hospitalisations to be going up (however we measure them) and deaths to be going up (however we measure them) and those numbers are of the order of 40% per week then ignoring them is not an option. As almost every country in the world has come to realise.
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Post by Gods on Oct 25, 2020 23:49:18 GMT
Honestly mate, I get it and I am sure you are asking all of the right questions. Probably the only difference is for all their undoubted gaps and faults I accept the broad thrust of the statistics on which policy is made and I think you increasingly don't. It's like when people say 'Where's the survey that proves X,Y or Z?' The answer most of the time is it doesn't exist. But this is a very new thing and there are things we do know about how and in what conditions the virus might spread from which policy can be derived. You are absolutely correct. But my question, is why do you?Is it because it just makes it easier for you to do so, you can adopt a position, simply because you don't have to actually think about it too much? To tell you the truth, I'm not even adopting a position either way, I simply want to be furnished with some of the important data, so I can even begin to start considering a position. I think perhaps like you I don't accept the actual numbers. For example today we announced another 23,102 cases in the UK. Clearly that number massively underestimates the real number of new cases today. Most people with covid never get anywhere near a test, why would they, if they don't exhibit any symptoms they would not even know. But what I do accept is provided you keep measuring something in the same way the trends won't lie. So if I see cases going up (however we measure them) and hospitalisations to be going up (however we measure them) and deaths to be going up (however we measure them) and those numbers are of the order of 40% per week then ignoring them is not an option. As almost every country in the world has come to realise.
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 26, 2020 0:27:27 GMT
You are absolutely correct. But my question, is why do you?Is it because it just makes it easier for you to do so, you can adopt a position, simply because you don't have to actually think about it too much? To tell you the truth, I'm not even adopting a position either way, I simply want to be furnished with some of the important data, so I can even begin to start considering a position. I think perhaps like you I don't accept the actual numbers. For example today we announced another 23,102 cases in the UK. Clearly that number massively underestimates the real number of new cases today. Most people with covid never get anywhere near a test, why would they, if they don't exhibit any symptoms they would not even know. But what I do accept is provided you keep measuring something in the same way the trends won't lie. So if I see cases going up (however we measure them) and hospitalisations to be going up (however we measure them) and deaths to be going up (however we measure them) and those numbers are of the order of 40% per week then ignoring them is not an option. As almost every country in the world has come to realise. Positive cases pick up, then people in hospitals, then ventilation and deaths. This keeps happening all over the place so it's pretty hard to see how every country and US state could be way off base. My gf gave me a different perspective too. The doctors in Arizona were overwhelmed and if you'd told her that all her patients coincidentally went covid-positive, then had the same symptoms and ended plugged into a vent with severe ARDS she'd probably have choked you out with her stethoscope. The best I can tell, the data supports 0.5-1 % of infected people dying, and that R was >1 recently. I wonder how many people on here would agree with that.
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Post by tosh on Oct 26, 2020 0:28:41 GMT
You are absolutely correct. But my question, is why do you?Is it because it just makes it easier for you to do so, you can adopt a position, simply because you don't have to actually think about it too much? To tell you the truth, I'm not even adopting a position either way, I simply want to be furnished with some of the important data, so I can even begin to start considering a position. I think perhaps like you I don't accept the actual numbers. For example today we announced another 23,102 cases in the UK. Clearly that number massively underestimates the real number of new cases today. Most people with covid never get anywhere near a test, why would they, if they don't exhibit any symptoms they would not even know. But what I do accept is provided you keep measuring something in the same way the trends won't lie. So if I see cases going up (however we measure them) and hospitalisations to be going up (however we measure them) and deaths to be going up (however we measure them) and those numbers are of the order of 40% per week then ignoring them is not an option. As almost every country in the world has come to realise. However lockdowns are an ineffective and immensely damaging option. They merely delay the virus a little. It then continues to do what viruses do, as many countries are now experiencing. 10% of our current daily deaths are attributed to COVID-19. The remaining 90% to other illnesses. Average age for Covid deaths is 82. Meanwhile many including younger people dying of neglected cancers, heart attacks and other serious illnesses etc.,Businesses destroyed, jobs lost, people bankrupted and suicidal through depression, youngsters education and future prospects being destroyed. etc.,etc., Indefinite lockdowns, whilst waiting for a vaccine which is not certain to arrive, are not a logical option. That is why truthful accurate information, rather than one track government propaganda, now urgently needs to be shared openly with everyone, so that a proper strategy debate can take place on how we learn to live with this virus whilst offering protection to the vulnerable.
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 26, 2020 0:35:56 GMT
You are absolutely correct. But my question, is why do you?Is it because it just makes it easier for you to do so, you can adopt a position, simply because you don't have to actually think about it too much? To tell you the truth, I'm not even adopting a position either way, I simply want to be furnished with some of the important data, so I can even begin to start considering a position. I think perhaps like you I don't accept the actual numbers. For example today we announced another 23,102 cases in the UK. Clearly that number massively underestimates the real number of new cases today. Most people with covid never get anywhere near a test, why would they, if they don't exhibit any symptoms they would not even know. But what I do accept is provided you keep measuring something in the same way the trends won't lie. So if I see cases going up (however we measure them) and hospitalisations to be going up (however we measure them) and deaths to be going up (however we measure them) and those numbers are of the order of 40% per week then ignoring them is not an option. As almost every country in the world has come to realise. Good news is that the positive test growth rate is now +20-30%/week, versus +40-55% in the fortnight before last. Fingers crossed that we're slowing things down. If there have to be more lockdowns, then it'll still get rougher on the hospitals for 2--4 weeks after they kick in. At least the NHS (hopefully) won't fall apart if things are only growing at 20-30% a week while it peaks...
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 26, 2020 0:36:10 GMT
You are absolutely correct. But my question, is why do you?Is it because it just makes it easier for you to do so, you can adopt a position, simply because you don't have to actually think about it too much? To tell you the truth, I'm not even adopting a position either way, I simply want to be furnished with some of the important data, so I can even begin to start considering a position. I think perhaps like you I don't accept the actual numbers. For example today we announced another 23,102 cases in the UK. Clearly that number massively underestimates the real number of new cases today. Most people with covid never get anywhere near a test, why would they, if they don't exhibit any symptoms they would not even know. But what I do accept is provided you keep measuring something in the same way the trends won't lie. So if I see cases going up (however we measure them) and hospitalisations to be going up (however we measure them) and deaths to be going up (however we measure them) and those numbers are of the order of 40% per week then ignoring them is not an option.
As almost every country in the world has come to realise. But that's the point ... however we measure them, is absolutely crucial to understanding how we develop a response to this disease. To just suggest that the number seems to be, erm, duh ... "pretty big", without any attempt whatsoever to provide context to that number, without any desire to even understand what that number actually means, is beyond naïve. And nobody is saying that we should simply ignore the figures, rather, let's have a grown up discussion about how we interpret them.
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 26, 2020 0:38:34 GMT
I think perhaps like you I don't accept the actual numbers. For example today we announced another 23,102 cases in the UK. Clearly that number massively underestimates the real number of new cases today. Most people with covid never get anywhere near a test, why would they, if they don't exhibit any symptoms they would not even know. But what I do accept is provided you keep measuring something in the same way the trends won't lie. So if I see cases going up (however we measure them) and hospitalisations to be going up (however we measure them) and deaths to be going up (however we measure them) and those numbers are of the order of 40% per week then ignoring them is not an option.
As almost every country in the world has come to realise. But that's the point ... however we measure them, is absolutely crucial to understanding how we develop a response to this disease. To just suggest that the number seems to be, erm, duh ... "pretty big", without any attempt whatsoever to provide context to that number, without any desire to even understand what that number actually means, is beyond naïve. And nobody is saying that we should simply ignore the figures, rather, let's have a grown up discussion about how we interpret them. How'd you feel about summarising everything in (1) the R number, (2) fatality rate, (3) other side effects rates, like % needing hospital or with permanent damage. That's how I've been thinking about it.
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 26, 2020 0:41:15 GMT
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Post by starkiller on Oct 26, 2020 1:04:06 GMT
Still think it's all about health? Let's all clap for this:
And timed nicely. Isn't it super that these elites see what many of you consider to be a deadly pandemic as an opportunity?
Flu has now virtually disappeared worldwide due to 'rebranding'. Every single aspect of this covid story doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Falsified death figures due to "deaths within 28 days of positive test", regardless of cause of death. Falsified "cases" due to PCR test. Falsified hospitilisations due to testing everyone who enters, regardless of reason & counting a "positive" as a "Covid" hospitilisation.
So flu has been around a millennia but magically disappeared in 2020, exactly in the year of the covid narrative?
I guess it's another coincidences and contradictions amongst many that proves nothing...
If you still think we have all of these positive Covid cases and Covid deaths, maybe I have misjudged the audience as CWFHSMJFDQKFB says.
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Post by whatsashig on Oct 26, 2020 3:42:16 GMT
A better x axis is needed
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Post by salopstick on Oct 26, 2020 6:07:26 GMT
Still think it's all about health? Let's all clap for this: And timed nicely. Isn't it super that these elites see what many of you consider to be a deadly pandemic as an opportunity? Flu has now virtually disappeared worldwide due to 'rebranding'. Every single aspect of this covid story doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Falsified death figures due to "deaths within 28 days of positive test", regardless of cause of death. Falsified "cases" due to PCR test. Falsified hospitilisations due to testing everyone who enters, regardless of reason & counting a "positive" as a "Covid" hospitilisation. So flu has been around a millennia but magically disappeared in 2020, exactly in the year of the covid narrative? I guess it's another coincidences and contradictions amongst many that proves nothing... If you still think we have all of these positive Covid cases and Covid deaths, maybe I have misjudged the audience as CWFHSMJFDQKFB says. When is conspiracy no longer a theory
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Post by werrington on Oct 26, 2020 6:43:21 GMT
Here is one for you. How many covid deaths are no longer being reported since if you die but have not tested positive in the last 28 days for covid then you will no longer count as a covid death in wave 2. Presumably many people who ends up on a ventilator in hospital will limp on for 4 weeks or 4 months and if they ultimately turn up their toes after that they won't count as a covid death. Fact is you can play around at the minutiae of the numbers until the cows come home but cases in all the vulnerable age groups are rising, hospital admissions are rising and deaths are rising. Its no good mate, I've given up trying now. Just let them get on with it, it's not worth the hassle. I doubt the penny will even drop with some when the Welsh are enjoying the festive period because they've taken the necessary action whilst we're in full lockdown because we've been skirting around the issue for weeks with useless restrictions that only delay the inevitable. What you mean is you don’t like people not agreeing with you ....even when many have told you how the hospital numbers are counted and many about to lose their jobs,businesses and homes you continue to not give a fuck about them instead seeing them go through hell on the basis of “ could happen” or “ may happen” unlike many on here who do care about them and see the bigger picture Perhaps a public discussion forum is not the place for you
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Post by zerps on Oct 26, 2020 7:18:20 GMT
Still think it's all about health? Let's all clap for this: And timed nicely. Isn't it super that these elites see what many of you consider to be a deadly pandemic as an opportunity? Flu has now virtually disappeared worldwide due to 'rebranding'. Every single aspect of this covid story doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Falsified death figures due to "deaths within 28 days of positive test", regardless of cause of death. Falsified "cases" due to PCR test. Falsified hospitilisations due to testing everyone who enters, regardless of reason & counting a "positive" as a "Covid" hospitilisation. So flu has been around a millennia but magically disappeared in 2020, exactly in the year of the covid narrative? I guess it's another coincidences and contradictions amongst many that proves nothing... If you still think we have all of these positive Covid cases and Covid deaths, maybe I have misjudged the audience as CWFHSMJFDQKFB says. Buy crypto, the usd is finished... This has all been fabricated as an excuse to replace the usd.
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Post by zerps on Oct 26, 2020 7:57:36 GMT
Donald trump will be known as the leader and we’ll all sing the leader song in unison every 30 seconds
We’ll be force fed 3d printed vegan food and tree bark in our cages
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Post by spitthedog on Oct 26, 2020 8:02:57 GMT
Still think it's all about health? Let's all clap for this: Real or not (the letter) this says it all about Twitter. -"Is this for real?" -"I don't know I retweeted it from xxxx" This letter from march is real and it was reported by the BBC, the Surgery were forced to apologise and contact those patients who had received it. I received a similar letter in Sheffield. From the BBC The surgery have been made aware that the letter has caused upset to some of the patients who received it," a statement said. "This was not their intent and they apologise for any distress caused. Staff at the surgery are speaking to those patients who received the letter to apologise directly and answer any concerns they may have." Ogmore MP Chris Elmore, whose constituency covers Maesteg, said: "There is no getting around it, it is deeply concerning, the contents of this letter." "The Welsh Assembly Member for Ogmore, Huw Irranca-Davies, and myself were made aware of it on Monday evening. We were straight on to the health board to find out what had gone on. "The board then investigated and it wasn't a standard letter, so the health board spoke directly to the surgery. "They have now asked the surgery to contact patients who received the letter to apologise and more importantly offer appropriate advice of what actually could happen in the circumstances of their particular health conditions. "We are very concerned about the stress it has caused." Helena Herklots, the Older People's Commissioner for Wales, said she was "shocked" the letter was even written. "This is shameful and unacceptable," she added. "Whilst difficult and painful decisions will need to be made in the weeks ahead, these must be taken on a case-by-case basis, through honest discussions between patients, doctors and their families that consider risks and benefits, as well as people's own wishes."
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 26, 2020 8:03:15 GMT
Still think it's all about health? Let's all clap for this: And timed nicely. Isn't it super that these elites see what many of you consider to be a deadly pandemic as an opportunity? Flu has now virtually disappeared worldwide due to 'rebranding'. Every single aspect of this covid story doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Falsified death figures due to "deaths within 28 days of positive test", regardless of cause of death. Falsified "cases" due to PCR test. Falsified hospitilisations due to testing everyone who enters, regardless of reason & counting a "positive" as a "Covid" hospitilisation. So flu has been around a millennia but magically disappeared in 2020, exactly in the year of the covid narrative? I guess it's another coincidences and contradictions amongst many that proves nothing... If you still think we have all of these positive Covid cases and Covid deaths, maybe I have misjudged the audience as CWFHSMJFDQKFB says. When is conspiracy no longer a theory What on earth is going on.
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Post by andystokey on Oct 26, 2020 8:03:22 GMT
Here is one for you. How many covid deaths are no longer being reported since if you die but have not tested positive in the last 28 days for covid then you will no longer count as a covid death in wave 2. Presumably many people who ends up on a ventilator in hospital will limp on for 4 weeks or 4 months and if they ultimately turn up their toes after that they won't count as a covid death. Fact is you can play around at the minutiae of the numbers until the cows come home but cases in all the vulnerable age groups are rising, hospital admissions are rising and deaths are rising. It absolutely isn't about playing around with the minutiae of the numbers at all. I find it extremely hard to believe that you cannot see, that if we're going to have a grown up discussion about the options available going forwards, then it is absolutely fundamental for us to furnish ourselves with the answers to the questions I have posted. To do anything else, is to simply shove your fingers in your ears and shout "la, la, la, I'm not listening and I don't even want to know." Its reasonable to assume that the answers to your questions must be known Paul. If not it's an act of gross negligence on behalf of SAGE the ONS. They must know the importance of the questions you raise. If they are available we genuinely have to ask why they are not in the public domain. There could only be one excuse namely that they cast sufficient doubt in the publics mind on the policy the Government is pursuing.
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