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Post by thisisouryear on Oct 1, 2020 7:45:10 GMT
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Post by nott1 on Oct 1, 2020 7:48:50 GMT
I hear there is now something called Long Covid where the symptoms go on and on, but of course the know(fuck)alls will not believe it.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 1, 2020 7:59:57 GMT
I thought we had that argument the other day about what is a conspiracy theorist and you lost.. seems some people will never learn Many people have discussed this as man-made virus escaped from a Chinese lab. Yet, now we have the arbiters of what's considered conspiracy theory and what isn't. Using it, as the BBC do and CIA intended, to insult others, close down realms of discussion, and dismiss views. Scientists studying the DNA of Covid 19 have concluded that it is a natural mutation of a pre-existing coronavirus and not one that was genetically modified in a lab so when you say "arbiters of what's considered conspiracy theory and what isn't" in this case you mean the scientific community. So if we don't believe in scientists when it comes to understanding how the world actually works who do we believe in? Your libertarian utopia where everything is an opinion and everybody's opinion has the same value represents the end of rational thought. Every lunatic on the planet can believe anything they want and the only way of deciding what is right and what is wrong is brute force because evidence is dismissed as opinion and the scientific method dismissed as unlibertarian for daring to claim it has concluded that one opinion is right and another wrong. You see the world as a battle between Libertarians like yourself and Totalitarians like Bill Gates (why a geek for a super villain I don't know - maybe Q had a problem with his laptop) with sheep in the middle in thrall to the BBC, science and the shackles of basing your beliefs on evidence rather than opinion. It isn't a battle between Libertarians and Totalitarians but just for the record if it were then I have to declare I'm a card carrying member of the Totalitarian fan club. Your Libertarian dreamworld is a living nightmare with no moral or intellectual compass. I choose the shackles of the scientific method, rational debate and the ability to judge right from wrong based on evidence and independent scrutiny by experts in their field. If you and you fellow Libertarians want to believe the ravings of any lunatic with a Wordpress account knock yourself out - but stop whinging when someone points out you're wrong. Because when it comes to descriptions of the the real world (like Covid-19 is a real virus that kills people and Mount Everest is the biggest mountain in the world) there are ways of determining right from wrong and claiming there aren't, it's all just opinion, is quite literally insane.
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Post by Davef on Oct 1, 2020 8:10:49 GMT
I hear there is now something called Long Covid where the symptoms go on and on, but of course the know(fuck)alls will not believe it. It's been a well known fact for months. As has the fact that lockdown gave 12,000 men and women a death sentence because of undiagnosed breast and prostrate cancer,
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Post by Davef on Oct 1, 2020 8:14:02 GMT
Restrictions on Merseyside expected to be announced today.
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Post by somersetstokie on Oct 1, 2020 8:22:44 GMT
I have heard several comments about Liverpool being on the "watch" list, with the infection rate increasing in some areas and the City generally experiencing a high incidence of covid cases.
What are the Covid restriction rules on people from different families burgling the same house?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2020 8:31:28 GMT
This has surely got to be good news, France has been having a big rise in cases for a few weeks now, far higher than anything they saw in the spring, their 7 day rolling average is currently at 12,258 and on Thursday it was over 16,000 however the current 7 day rolling average for actual deaths is just 63, currently it doesn't look like the death count is going to get anywhere near the figures that it did earlier in the year. They weren't mass testing back then like they are now though so we have no idea what the ratio to deaths really is. There could have been 120,000 cases a day in march / April for all we know. The ratio in April is irrelevant to the point I'm making. EVEN though their number of positives has risen dramatically in the last six weeks, to numbers far higher than it was in the Spring, the number of deaths haven't followed the same trajectory, THAT'S what is important.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 1, 2020 8:36:29 GMT
I hear there is now something called Long Covid where the symptoms go on and on, but of course the know(fuck)alls will not believe it. It's been a well known fact for months. As has the fact that lockdown gave 12,000 men and women a death sentence because of undiagnosed breast and prostrate cancer, Lockdown did not give cancer patients a death sentence. Undiagnosed cases of cancer happened during lockdown (correlation), Undiagnosed cases of cancer occurred because the NHS were at breaking point dealing with Covid cases (causation). The phrase "Lockdown Deaths" is an example of sensationalist reporting and misrepresents the actual causal relationship between events, Lockdown did not give 12,000 men and women a death sentence. The government's late implementation of lockdown caused Covid to get out of hand and overwhelm the NHS. If the government had not locked down the NHS would have been even more overloaded with Covid cases and even more people would not have had their cancer diagnosed. You might argue that the Nightingale hospitals weren't used and the NHS did have capacity but that is an issue of poor management and nothing to do with lockdown per se.
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Post by Davef on Oct 1, 2020 8:43:58 GMT
It's been a well known fact for months. As has the fact that lockdown gave 12,000 men and women a death sentence because of undiagnosed breast and prostrate cancer, Lockdown did not give cancer patients a death sentence. Undiagnosed cases of cancer happened during lockdown (correlation), Undiagnosed cases of cancer occurred because the NHS were at breaking point dealing with Covid cases (causation). The phrase "Lockdown Deaths" is an example of sensationalist reporting and misrepresents the actual causal relationship between events, Lockdown did not give 12,000 men and women a death sentence. The government's late implementation of lockdown caused Covid to get out of hand and overwhelm the NHS. If the government had not locked down the NHS would have been even more overloaded with Covid cases and even more people would not have had their cancer diagnosed. You might argue that the Nightingale hospitals weren't used and the NHS did have capacity but that is an issue of poor management and nothing to do with lockdown per se. I'm sure that will come as some comfort to the relatives and friends at the funerals of their loved ones over the coming months and years. They should read it out.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 1, 2020 8:50:21 GMT
They weren't mass testing back then like they are now though so we have no idea what the ratio to deaths really is. There could have been 120,000 cases a day in march / April for all we know. Precisely - so it’s good news Exactly. Great news. Perhaps illustrating the virus wasn't as deadly as first suspected? Or alternatively the second wave is a weaker strain.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2020 8:50:33 GMT
Yes, definitely a coincidence. What's the suggestion here mate, that there ISN'T an outbreak at the hospital, or that the surgeon was lying when he said he hadn't seen any cases for months?
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Post by salopstick on Oct 1, 2020 8:53:43 GMT
Lockdown did not give cancer patients a death sentence. Undiagnosed cases of cancer happened during lockdown (correlation), Undiagnosed cases of cancer occurred because the NHS were at breaking point dealing with Covid cases (causation). The phrase "Lockdown Deaths" is an example of sensationalist reporting and misrepresents the actual causal relationship between events, Lockdown did not give 12,000 men and women a death sentence. The government's late implementation of lockdown caused Covid to get out of hand and overwhelm the NHS. If the government had not locked down the NHS would have been even more overloaded with Covid cases and even more people would not have had their cancer diagnosed. You might argue that the Nightingale hospitals weren't used and the NHS did have capacity but that is an issue of poor management and nothing to do with lockdown per se. I'm sure that will come as some comfort to the relatives and friends at the funerals of their loved ones over the coming months and years. They should read it out. The NHS was never overwhelmed. It practically shut itself half of it down
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 1, 2020 8:55:33 GMT
It's been a well known fact for months. As has the fact that lockdown gave 12,000 men and women a death sentence because of undiagnosed breast and prostrate cancer, Lockdown did not give cancer patients a death sentence. Undiagnosed cases of cancer happened during lockdown (correlation), Undiagnosed cases of cancer occurred because the NHS were at breaking point dealing with Covid cases (causation). The phrase "Lockdown Deaths" is an example of sensationalist reporting and misrepresents the actual causal relationship between events, Lockdown did not give 12,000 men and women a death sentence. The government's late implementation of lockdown caused Covid to get out of hand and overwhelm the NHS. If the government had not locked down the NHS would have been even more overloaded with Covid cases and even more people would not have had their cancer diagnosed. You might argue that the Nightingale hospitals weren't used and the NHS did have capacity but that is an issue of poor management and nothing to do with lockdown per se. Whatever way you look at it, lockdown and the staggeringly shit management of the NHS has been an utter catastrophe. I mean it basically has given people a death sentance. 1 million women alone have missed breast cancer screenings since March. That's a quite horrifying statistic. All for something that is less likely to get you than 23 other killers where the vast majority of people are completely asymptomatic.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 1, 2020 8:57:21 GMT
I'm sure that will come as some comfort to the relatives and friends at the funerals of their loved ones over the coming months and years. They should read it out. The NHS was never overwhelmed. It practically shut itself half of it down Lazy ass management of the highest order.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2020 9:00:25 GMT
Precisely - so it’s good news Exactly. Great news. Perhaps illustrating the virus wasn't as deadly as first suspected? Or alternatively the second wave is a weaker strain. There isn't any evidence that the virus has become any weaker but there is plenty of evidence (as my post illustrates) that SO FAR, far less people are getting severely sick from it, let's pray that it remains that way. Hospital admissions in this country are now almost five times higher than they were at the start of September, as are ICU admissions but relatively, it is still a small number. Obviously that wouldn't be the case if the same thing was to happen by the end of this month. I guess October is going to be a big month it terms of where this whole thing is going.
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Post by salopstick on Oct 1, 2020 9:02:12 GMT
The NHS was never overwhelmed. It practically shut itself half of it down Lazy ass management of the highest order. And lockdown allowed them to get away with it
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 1, 2020 9:05:07 GMT
Exactly. Great news. Perhaps illustrating the virus wasn't as deadly as first suspected? Or alternatively the second wave is a weaker strain. There isn't any evidence that the virus has become any weaker but there is plenty of evidence (as my post illustrates) that SO FAR, far less people are getting severely sick from it, let's pray that it remains that way. Hospital admissions in this country are now almost five times higher than they were at the start of September, as are ICU admissions but relatively, it is still a small number. Obviously that wouldn't be the case if the same thing was to happen by the end of this month. I guess October is going to be a big month it terms of where this whole thing is going. Yeah I don't think it's to do with the virus weakening. I suspect a lot more people had this in March and April than initially thought.
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Post by MilanStokie on Oct 1, 2020 9:07:05 GMT
Lockdown did not give cancer patients a death sentence. Undiagnosed cases of cancer happened during lockdown (correlation), Undiagnosed cases of cancer occurred because the NHS were at breaking point dealing with Covid cases (causation). The phrase "Lockdown Deaths" is an example of sensationalist reporting and misrepresents the actual causal relationship between events, Lockdown did not give 12,000 men and women a death sentence. The government's late implementation of lockdown caused Covid to get out of hand and overwhelm the NHS. If the government had not locked down the NHS would have been even more overloaded with Covid cases and even more people would not have had their cancer diagnosed. You might argue that the Nightingale hospitals weren't used and the NHS did have capacity but that is an issue of poor management and nothing to do with lockdown per se. Whatever way you look at it, lockdown and the staggeringly shit management of the NHS has been an utter catastrophe. I mean it basically has given people a death sentance. 1 million women alone have missed breast cancer screenings since March. That's a quite horrifying statistic. All for something that is less likely to get you than 23 other killers where the vast majority of people are completely asymptomatic. Another who keeps talking about this ranking. 24th highest killer? For which period? At the moment? Where did it rank in April where most will have lost their appointments? What other cause of death was killing over 1000 people per day? Covid-19 has killed more than Influenza this year and that is with an upscaled modelling or an estimation if you will, of Influenza deaths. It has the potential to go to triple and quadruple figure deaths again and that is the dangers, you should perhaps stop clinging onto the 20-30 deaths per day of last week. At this stage it is the potential of the virus that is a risk, not the actual or current data.
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Post by thisisouryear on Oct 1, 2020 9:10:42 GMT
They weren't mass testing back then like they are now though so we have no idea what the ratio to deaths really is. There could have been 120,000 cases a day in march / April for all we know. The ratio in April is irrelevant to the point I'm making. EVEN though their number of positives has risen dramatically in the last six weeks, to numbers far higher than it was in the Spring, the number of deaths haven't followed the same trajectory, THAT'S what is important. Weren't tests more concentrated to people going into hospitals though back in march rather than to the wider public than they are now?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2020 9:14:38 GMT
There isn't any evidence that the virus has become any weaker but there is plenty of evidence (as my post illustrates) that SO FAR, far less people are getting severely sick from it, let's pray that it remains that way. Hospital admissions in this country are now almost five times higher than they were at the start of September, as are ICU admissions but relatively, it is still a small number. Obviously that wouldn't be the case if the same thing was to happen by the end of this month. I guess October is going to be a big month it terms of where this whole thing is going. Yeah I don't think it's to do with the virus weakening. I suspect a lot more people had this in March and April than initially thought. It's been estimated that at the time around 100,000 people a day were becoming infected but obviously the vast majority of those were asymptomatic and didn't become even remotely ill. There is every chance that many of the 'cases' that we're seeing now are (due to mass testing) nothing more than people testing 'positive' for remnants of the virus that they had in the Spring and didn't even realise that they had it (then or now), indeed they weren't ever going to become sick then and they aren't getting sick now. The most important stat is how many people are being admitted to hospital BECAUSE of Covid and most importantly, how many of those people are ending up in ICU'S.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2020 9:17:57 GMT
The ratio in April is irrelevant to the point I'm making. EVEN though their number of positives has risen dramatically in the last six weeks, to numbers far higher than it was in the Spring, the number of deaths haven't followed the same trajectory, THAT'S what is important. Weren't tests more concentrated to people going into hospitals though back in march rather than to the wider public than they are now? Yes but it's irrelevant, what IS important is the number of people being admitted to hospital now and in France's case, even though the number of people testing positive has gone through the roof, hospital admissions are relatively very small.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 1, 2020 9:28:55 GMT
Yeah I don't think it's to do with the virus weakening. I suspect a lot more people had this in March and April than initially thought. It's been estimated that at the time around 100,000 people a day were becoming infected but obviously the vast majority of those were asymptomatic and didn't become even remotely ill. There is every chance that many of the 'cases' that we're seeing now are (due to mass testing) nothing more than people testing 'positive' for remnants of the virus that they had in the Spring and didn't even realise that they had it (then or now), indeed they weren't ever going to become sick then and they aren't getting sick now. The most important stat is how many people are being admitted to hospital BECAUSE of Covid and most importantly, how many of those people are ending up in ICU'S. Indeed mate.
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Post by thisisouryear on Oct 1, 2020 9:31:49 GMT
Weren't tests more concentrated to people going into hospitals though back in march rather than to the wider public than they are now? Yes but it's irrelevant, what IS important is the number of people being admitted to hospital and in France's case, even though the number of people testing positive has gone through the roof, hospital admissions are relatively very small. I'm struggling to see the point. Tests are now picking up asymptomatic in the general population which would not have happened early in the pandemic as they were testing people who were already seriously ill. Many asymptomatic people were likely out there but bypassed because the way testing was directed. I don't know the best way to compare but take the 22nd March for example, I don't know where to find the data but how many were in hospital with the disease compared to deaths than to yesterday? Another thing is now more is known about the virus are people being admitted to hospital later than they were before? Without knowing what changes have happened then we don't really know what's going on and the statistics may not show the whole picture.
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Post by starkiller on Oct 1, 2020 9:31:59 GMT
Many people have discussed this as man-made virus escaped from a Chinese lab. Yet, now we have the arbiters of what's considered conspiracy theory and what isn't. Using it, as the BBC do and CIA intended, to insult others, close down realms of discussion, and dismiss views. Scientists studying the DNA of Covid 19 have concluded that it is a natural mutation of a pre-existing coronavirus and not one that was genetically modified in a lab so when you say "arbiters of what's considered conspiracy theory and what isn't" in this case you mean the scientific community. So if we don't believe in scientists when it comes to understanding how the world actually works who do we believe in? Your libertarian utopia where everything is an opinion and everybody's opinion has the same value represents the end of rational thought. Every lunatic on the planet can believe anything they want and the only way of deciding what is right and what is wrong is brute force because evidence is dismissed as opinion and the scientific method dismissed as unlibertarian for daring to claim it has concluded that one opinion is right and another wrong. You see the world as a battle between Libertarians like yourself and Totalitarians like Bill Gates (why a geek for a super villain I don't know - maybe Q had a problem with his laptop) with sheep in the middle in thrall to the BBC, science and the shackles of basing your beliefs on evidence rather than opinion. It isn't a battle between Libertarians and Totalitarians but just for the record if it were then I have to declare I'm a card carrying member of the Totalitarian fan club. Your Libertarian dreamworld is a living nightmare with no moral or intellectual compass. I choose the shackles of the scientific method, rational debate and the ability to judge right from wrong based on evidence and independent scrutiny by experts in their field. If you and you fellow Libertarians want to believe the ravings of any lunatic with a Wordpress account knock yourself out - but stop whinging when someone points out you're wrong. Because when it comes to descriptions of the the real world (like Covid-19 is a real virus that kills people and Mount Everest is the biggest mountain in the world) there are ways of determining right from wrong and claiming there aren't, it's all just opinion, is quite literally insane. Once again, littered with strawman argument, Poundland psychoanalysis, and second person pronouns.
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Post by MilanStokie on Oct 1, 2020 9:40:10 GMT
Just goes to show the mental impact this is going to have on our children.
So at the end of July we went on holiday to Croatia (its only a 5 hour drive from Milan) but whilst we were there, Croatia was added to the compulsory Covid-19 test. We all had to have this upon return to Milan (2 adults, 2 kids, aged 3 and 7). All returned negative thankfully.
Schools obviously started up and we feared the worst when eventually and inevitably sickness kicks in.
My 7 year old son came home yesterday with a terrible cough and heavy cold. 37.1 temperature which we are told is 37.6 of a thermal reading machine.
He is absolutely distraught at having to do the test AGAIN in such a short period of time. They are very unpleasant things but coupled with the fear of potentially having the virus has scared the boy shitless.
I am pretty sure it will just be a seasonal illness but I cannot imagine what this is doing to the young'uns.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2020 10:01:47 GMT
Yes but it's irrelevant, what IS important is the number of people being admitted to hospital and in France's case, even though the number of people testing positive has gone through the roof, hospital admissions are relatively very small. I'm struggling to see the point. Tests are now picking up asymptomatic in the general population which would not have happened early in the pandemic as they were testing people who were already seriously ill. Many asymptomatic people were likely out there but bypassed because the way testing was directed. I don't know the best way to compare but take the 22nd March for example, I don't know where to find the data but how many were in hospital with the disease compared to deaths than to yesterday? Another thing is now more is known about the virus are people being admitted to hospital later than they were before? Without knowing what changes have happened then we don't really know what's going on and the statistics may not show the whole picture. The point is, that the number of 'cases' are largely irrelevant, the only statistic that really matters, are hospital and ICU admissions. France could announce tomorrow that they've had 50,000 new cases in a single day but if their hospital admissions are still in double figures then THAT would potentially be very good news for us in the weeks to come.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Oct 1, 2020 10:03:30 GMT
They weren't mass testing back then like they are now though so we have no idea what the ratio to deaths really is. There could have been 120,000 cases a day in march / April for all we know. The ratio in April is irrelevant to the point I'm making. EVEN though their number of positives has risen dramatically in the last six weeks, to numbers far higher than it was in the Spring, the number of deaths haven't followed the same trajectory, THAT'S what is important. I think you're missing my point mate. What I was trying to say is that the amount of cases undetected in April could have been 120,000+ per day hence why they had up to a thousand deaths per day at that point. Because we are testing more now and detecting the cases that are there, there aren't as many undetected cases so the current amount of cases is a more true figure ( lower) hence why we're not seeing the amount of deaths yet.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 1, 2020 10:08:35 GMT
Scientists studying the DNA of Covid 19 have concluded that it is a natural mutation of a pre-existing coronavirus and not one that was genetically modified in a lab so when you say "arbiters of what's considered conspiracy theory and what isn't" in this case you mean the scientific community. So if we don't believe in scientists when it comes to understanding how the world actually works who do we believe in? Your libertarian utopia where everything is an opinion and everybody's opinion has the same value represents the end of rational thought. Every lunatic on the planet can believe anything they want and the only way of deciding what is right and what is wrong is brute force because evidence is dismissed as opinion and the scientific method dismissed as unlibertarian for daring to claim it has concluded that one opinion is right and another wrong. You see the world as a battle between Libertarians like yourself and Totalitarians like Bill Gates (why a geek for a super villain I don't know - maybe Q had a problem with his laptop) with sheep in the middle in thrall to the BBC, science and the shackles of basing your beliefs on evidence rather than opinion. It isn't a battle between Libertarians and Totalitarians but just for the record if it were then I have to declare I'm a card carrying member of the Totalitarian fan club. Your Libertarian dreamworld is a living nightmare with no moral or intellectual compass. I choose the shackles of the scientific method, rational debate and the ability to judge right from wrong based on evidence and independent scrutiny by experts in their field. If you and you fellow Libertarians want to believe the ravings of any lunatic with a Wordpress account knock yourself out - but stop whinging when someone points out you're wrong. Because when it comes to descriptions of the the real world (like Covid-19 is a real virus that kills people and Mount Everest is the biggest mountain in the world) there are ways of determining right from wrong and claiming there aren't, it's all just opinion, is quite literally insane. Once again, littered with strawman argument, Poundland psychoanalysis, and second person pronouns. Ok. I've found a website that claims that the Libertarian movement is directed by a cyber alien from the planet Venus. The plan is to debunk science and discredit all reputable information sources and have all truth statements about the real world filtered through a belief system premised on a totalitarian takeover by Bill Gates. Anything that does not conform with the Venusian worldview as propagated by the approved websites will be condemned as strawman arguements, Poundland psychanalysis and, worst of all, having no value because of the use of the second person pronoun. This is clearly true as it's my opinion and your last post is textbook Venusian for "nah nah ne nah nah I told you so".
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Post by thisisouryear on Oct 1, 2020 10:09:43 GMT
I'm struggling to see the point. Tests are now picking up asymptomatic in the general population which would not have happened early in the pandemic as they were testing people who were already seriously ill. Many asymptomatic people were likely out there but bypassed because the way testing was directed. I don't know the best way to compare but take the 22nd March for example, I don't know where to find the data but how many were in hospital with the disease compared to deaths than to yesterday? Another thing is now more is known about the virus are people being admitted to hospital later than they were before? Without knowing what changes have happened then we don't really know what's going on and the statistics may not show the whole picture. The point is, that the number of 'cases' are largely irrelevant, the only statistic that really matters, are hospital and ICU admissions. France could announce tomorrow that they've had 50,000 new cases in a single day but if their hospital admissions are still in double figures then THAT would potentially be very good news in the weeks to come. What's happening now is a truer picture of where we are in comparison to cases to deaths ratio, but it's the long term effects statistics which we are missing which would help see where we are with this virus.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2020 10:15:48 GMT
The ratio in April is irrelevant to the point I'm making. EVEN though their number of positives has risen dramatically in the last six weeks, to numbers far higher than it was in the Spring, the number of deaths haven't followed the same trajectory, THAT'S what is important. I think you're missing my point mate. What I was trying to say is that the amount of cases undetected in April could have been 120,000+ per day hence why they had up to a thousand deaths per day at that point. Because we are testing more now and detecting the cases that are there, there aren't as many undetected cases so the current amount of cases is a more true figure ( lower) hence why we're not seeing the amount of deaths yet. Maybe you're missing mine mate. The number of 'cases' is irrelevant, the only stat that is relevant are the number of cases of SICK people. France have got some pretty scary 'case' figures over the last 6-7 weeks but those 'cases' haven't ultimately translated into a scary number of deaths, this is good news.
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