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Post by Timmypotter on Sept 24, 2020 6:16:53 GMT
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Post by starkiller on Sept 24, 2020 6:36:40 GMT
Dr Mike Yeadon. Practically all the positive tests are false positives. I said months ago this scam is based on this test. We really are in an parallel universe with all this. At the mercy of this russian roulette test to determine your life. I cannot even decide for myself if I'm ill or not. I just want government out of life. I understand people like this idea of daddy government. But it's not for me.
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 24, 2020 6:38:52 GMT
RESTRICTIONS It would be interesting to know in what way the restrictions in Sweden differs from the restrictions in England. Especially when the tv news here only mention two of them in England: restaurants, pubs and bars will close at 22, and work from home if you can. Restrictions in Sweden: [Businesses:] * Move the furniture and things to make more space and less crowding. * Offer water (and soap) or hand desinfectants. * Put up information. [Personal responsibility:] * Wash your hands often and for at least 20 seconds. * Keep the distance to other people at places where people (normally) are gathered, both indoors and outdoors. * Keep the distance in public transports. * Avoid joining bigger social events, like parties, funerals, baptism, celebrations and weddings. * Keep the distance to people in baths and at the gym. Avoid changing your clothes in public dressing rooms. * Avoid travelling during the usual rush hours and avoid unnecessary travelling. [Risk groups:] * Limit your social contacts. * Avoid public transports, including taxi. * Avoid to shop in stores, including grocery stores and at the pharmacy. * Avoid places where people are gathered. [Public transports:] * Organize the traffic to avoid crowding. * Inform the passengers on how to avoid the spread of infection. * Limit the number of passengers per vehicle. [Supermarket/Trade:] * Limit the number of customers who could enter and stay in the room simultaneously. * Introduce alternative solutions to queues, for instance markings for distance between customers. [Sport events:] * Make sure to avoid close contact between athletes. * Postpone matches and events. * Avoid crowding by limiting the number of visitors. * Keep the activities outdoors when it's possible. * Avoid unnecessary travels, in connection with sports. [Workplaces:] * Employers should make sure the seat places are sparsely distributed when it's possible. * Frequently wash your hands and keep the distance to each other. * Work from home if you can. * Avoid unnecessary work related travels. * Adjust the working hours to avoid travelling during the rush hours. * Avoid meetings, or have them digitally. These rules apply for the rest of the year of 2020 in Sweden. When it comes to bigger gatherings, meetings, the limit is 50 people so far. They are now seriously discussing household quarantines, also called family quarantines, meaning when someone in a household gets symptoms of Corona NOONE in that household could leave the home to go to work, to school or to do some necessary shopping at the grocery store and/or the pharmacy. What is the difference in England? Apart from the absence of fees here (as far as I know) ... to ordinary people. Restaurants can be closed though. Personally, I think the crowded buses is the worst problem here. And also, "make sure to avoid close contacts between athletes"? We have had relatively many athletes with Corona here. What are YOUR restrictions? www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-doThis might help. I would explain them myself but I don't have a clue what most of them are. I'm more down the route of Hands, face, space with very limited contact with others. I speak to a few family members outdoors but only those I'm closest to. I only need to enter 1 house and that's for my father in law who lives alone. That's pretty simple for me with minimal risk. The rules will allow more but I'm comfortable with what I'm doing and is the best way to protect others.
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Post by Gods on Sept 24, 2020 6:53:33 GMT
Interesting to see the App take up. I think only about 10% in most Western countries so far, almost universal take up in Asian high tech countries who went on to crack this virus. On another note in a survey today 1 in 5 people in the UK said they would not take a vaccine even if there were one. It doesn't fill you with much hope that we will properly crack this blasted virus in this country does it?!
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Post by Davef on Sept 24, 2020 7:45:37 GMT
The telegraph is reporting that Sir Patrick Vallance has £600,000 shareholding in a firm contracted to develop vaccines for Coronavirus. No wonder cases are escalating so quickly according to his maths. And I absolutely believe Matt Hancock when he said that the first he'd heard of it was in the Telegraph's report.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 24, 2020 7:58:06 GMT
Dr Mike Yeadon. Practically all the positive tests are false positives. I said months ago this scam is based on this test. We really are in an parallel universe with all this. At the mercy of this russian roulette test to determine your life. I cannot even decide for myself if I'm ill or not. I just want government out of life. I understand people like this idea of daddy government. But it's not for me. Actually this is the first thing you have quoted that may have legs. Dr Yeadon does appear to have some credibility (he is very much part of big pharma but I can't see an angle - maybe he was pissed off at being passed by in the WHO recruitment drive?). Seems to indicate that healthy debate is going on in the scientific mainstream - as it should. Whether he is right is another matter - we should know by Xmas. You might want government out of your life - I want these lunatics out of mine Prepper. Your idea of a libertarian utopia is my idea of a living hell. I'm off now to apply for a job with the WHO to prevent it from happening.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 24, 2020 8:05:42 GMT
1074 deaths in Spain over the last 7 days of published figures.
There was 96 deaths in the 7 days leading up to August 24th.
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Post by adri2008 on Sept 24, 2020 8:09:27 GMT
Interesting to see the App take up. I think only about 10% in most Western countries so far, almost universal take up in Asian high tech countries who went on to crack this virus. On another note in a survey today 1 in 5 people in the UK said they would not take a vaccine even if there were one. It doesn't fill you with much hope that we will properly crack this blasted virus in this country does it?! Experimental 'warp speed' vaccine vs the virus. Think I'd rather take my chances with the virus although I think it's going to be a moot point anyway as by the time its widely available, we'll have community immunity.
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Post by henry on Sept 24, 2020 8:33:40 GMT
Dr Mike Yeadon. Practically all the positive tests are false positives. I said months ago this scam is based on this test. We really are in an parallel universe with all this. At the mercy of this russian roulette test to determine your life. I cannot even decide for myself if I'm ill or not. I just want government out of life. I understand people like this idea of daddy government. But it's not for me. The testing is a farce, the trouble is, people are so embedded in the fear that they refuse to believe anything other than the red blocks on worldometer.
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swede
Academy Starlet
Posts: 224
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Post by swede on Sept 24, 2020 8:37:28 GMT
That’ll be why deaths and admissions are going up then. Marvellous. Yes, of course you can inflate death toll this way too. The only number that's relevant is excess mortality, then you can discuss why people are dying, what causes the blood clots etc.
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swede
Academy Starlet
Posts: 224
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Post by swede on Sept 24, 2020 8:46:47 GMT
1074 deaths in Spain over the last 7 days of published figures. There was 96 deaths in the 7 days leading up to August 24th. Around 1000 people die every day in Spain. How many that test positive depends on how you perform the tests. Only excess mortality is relevant. There is no excess mortality in Spain at present.
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Post by starkiller on Sept 24, 2020 8:53:46 GMT
Dr Mike Yeadon. Practically all the positive tests are false positives. I said months ago this scam is based on this test. We really are in an parallel universe with all this. At the mercy of this russian roulette test to determine your life. I cannot even decide for myself if I'm ill or not. I just want government out of life. I understand people like this idea of daddy government. But it's not for me. Actually this is the first thing you have quoted that may have legs. Dr Yeadon does appear to have some credibility (he is very much part of big pharma but I can't see an angle - maybe he was pissed off at being passed by in the WHO recruitment drive?). Seems to indicate that healthy debate is going on in the scientific mainstream - as it should. Whether he is right is another matter - we should know by Xmas. You might want government out of your life - I want these lunatics out of mine Prepper. Your idea of a libertarian utopia is my idea of a living hell. I'm off now to apply for a job with the WHO to prevent it from happening. Well it certainly explains the no symptoms 'asymptomatic' aspect to it right off. They are healthy people with either a sniffle. Or nothing wrong with them at all.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 24, 2020 8:54:21 GMT
1074 deaths in Spain over the last 7 days of published figures. There was 96 deaths in the 7 days leading up to August 24th. Casedemic. Sadly though you just have to look at this thread and see the fruitloops have taken over. Society is fucked.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 24, 2020 8:57:29 GMT
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Post by starkiller on Sept 24, 2020 9:01:22 GMT
That’ll be why deaths and admissions are going up then. Marvellous. Yes, of course you can inflate death toll this way too. The only number that's relevant is excess mortality, then you can discuss why people are dying, what causes the blood clots etc. The excess mortality has been explained by lockdown and the care home deaths. And the overall stats to date to this point in the year are average.
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Sept 24, 2020 9:04:22 GMT
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 24, 2020 9:19:16 GMT
So he has lost money then?
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Post by henry on Sept 24, 2020 9:23:21 GMT
You couldn’t make this shit up
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 24, 2020 9:35:12 GMT
You couldn’t make this shit up I must be missing something as he has had those shares for many years and sold most between 2012-2018. I would have thought share prices would have risen so he has lost out. It looks all part of the blame game to me.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 24, 2020 9:37:14 GMT
The telegraph is reporting that Sir Patrick Vallance has £600,000 shareholding in a firm contracted to develop vaccines for Coronavirus. No wonder cases are escalating so quickly according to his maths. And I absolutely believe Matt Hancock when he said that the first he'd heard of it was in the Telegraph's report. Been a common response of his that hasn't it? First I've heard of it when Cummings decided to test his eyes, Ferguson decided to shag his mistress, Vallence profiteering from a health crisis he is leading a response to, PM taking a trip to Padova. The whole lot of them should resign on mass. They wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and punched them full in the face. They have zero credibility.
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Post by adri2008 on Sept 24, 2020 9:54:42 GMT
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Post by ColonelMustard on Sept 24, 2020 10:31:07 GMT
1074 deaths in Spain over the last 7 days of published figures. There was 96 deaths in the 7 days leading up to August 24th. Around 1000 people die every day in Spain. How many that test positive depends on how you perform the tests. Only excess mortality is relevant. There is no excess mortality in Spain at present. How do you explain the difference between now and the 96 figure from August. Have they changed their reporting criteria?
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Post by ColonelMustard on Sept 24, 2020 10:32:31 GMT
And I absolutely believe Matt Hancock when he said that the first he'd heard of it was in the Telegraph's report. Been a common response of his that hasn't it? First I've heard of it when Cummings decided to test his eyes, Ferguson decided to shag his mistress, Vallence profiteering from a health crisis he is leading a response to, PM taking a trip to Padova. The whole lot of them should resign on mass. They wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and punched them full in the face. They have zero credibility. People talk about being post truth. But really despite there being more lies, the truth comes out, more than post truth, we are post integrity.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 24, 2020 10:47:38 GMT
Actually this is the first thing you have quoted that may have legs. Dr Yeadon does appear to have some credibility (he is very much part of big pharma but I can't see an angle - maybe he was pissed off at being passed by in the WHO recruitment drive?). Seems to indicate that healthy debate is going on in the scientific mainstream - as it should. Whether he is right is another matter - we should know by Xmas. You might want government out of your life - I want these lunatics out of mine Prepper. Your idea of a libertarian utopia is my idea of a living hell. I'm off now to apply for a job with the WHO to prevent it from happening. Well it certainly explains the no symptoms 'asymptomatic' aspect to it right off. They are healthy people with either a sniffle. Or nothing wrong with them at all. No-one has ever questioned the fact that a good number of people who get covid-19 are asymptomatic and what Yeadon says does not make a blind bit of difference to that non-debate. In addition he is not claiming that covid-19 has never killed people and isn't going to kill people in the future. What he is saying is that he believes the herd immunity threshold is much lower than the SAGE models suggest and that we may be almost be there because a good number of people have a predisposed T-cell immunity due to expose to similar coronaviruses in the past. This is all perfectly legitimate stuff but we won't know how big the second wave will be until Xmas. So there are 2 competing scientific theories without the evidence to demonstrate which one is correct. The evidence (ie the number of deaths resulting from the covid-19 second wave) will determine which theory is correct. The government's dilemna is which one to believe. It's chosen to put lives before the economy and have gone for the cautious option. None of this supports your view that covid-19 is a fake disease devised by the architects of some global totalitarian master plan. All you have done is hijack a legitimate scientific debate and tried (unsuccessfully) to use it to back your bullshit claims about a global conspiracy.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Sept 24, 2020 10:48:53 GMT
The screening paradox is a well known issue in diagnostics. Positive predictive value (the actual proportion testing positive that are actually positive) will always fall in low prevalence scenarios if you arbitrarily test on a mass level randomly. It’s one of the big things that hold back mass diagnostics for cancer screening for instance. Because everyone testing positive will then be required to have an invasive biopsy or endoscopy and you’ll actually probably pick up as many cases if you just looked at symptoms when PPV for these cancer screenings can be as low as 10%.
This is why I’m critical of Moonshot, using mass, undirected testing with new tech will carry a lot of false positives with it, especially when the test turnaround are mooted at 15 minutes or so, there is no way the specificity will be high enough. PPV however is influenced by Prevalence as opposed to the actual specificity of the test used. Which is to say if you to screen 100 people coughing up blood for lung cancer PPV would be higher than screening 100 randomers even if specificity of the test was fixed at say 90%. Because prevalence is the thing that changes the PPV the most. There is an entire field of mathematics dedicated to this, it’s not something unique to Covid.
It’s also why I’ve said since April-May that improving and increasing capacity became subject to Goodhart’s law. It became of a measure of “success” rather than something to actually stop the spread. They missed the boat first time round and are over-compensating now IMO and the it just becomes about recording incidence.
Targeted testing, like cluster busting we have seen in Asia will always trump Mass Testing for a host of reasons. It’s something we haven’t really developed. Hancock flip flops on who should get a test and sets arbitrary targets for capacity. I do believe there is a place for Pillar 2 tests, but it should probably be when Pillar 1 and the ONS survey show marked increases. Korea have tested a fraction to what we have for instance , but have used what they have to keep a firm lid on it. Sadly I don’t think the word innovation is something found in the Serco/Deloitte lexicon.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2020 10:51:00 GMT
Yes, of course you can inflate death toll this way too. The only number that's relevant is excess mortality, then you can discuss why people are dying, what causes the blood clots etc. The excess mortality has been explained by lockdown and the care home deaths. And the overall stats to date to this point in the year are average. Explained by who? I've seen your theory but I'd like to see scientific data to back it up......
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Post by musik on Sept 24, 2020 11:10:31 GMT
Thank You very much huddysleftfoot, hotterpotter and thisisouryear for sharing the info regarding how the restrictions in England look like to prevent Corona from spreading!👍
I have went through the pages here and now I fully understand why Tegnell has claimed the similarities between Sweden and England on how to tackle the pandemic. And about 0.06% of the population in both countries have died from Covid-19.
The restrictions are only described more in detail in England, it's like a freakin' Law book! 😳Tegnell on the other hand was worried our 4-5 pages were too much to keep in mind.
Wash your hands ... social distancing ...
England talk about small groups of 6 people and The Support Bubble. You must wear a face mask in certain situations, for instance on public transports. However, if you have a medical reason for it, you don't have to - but you don't have to show a written document of that medical condition of yours. Isn't that to complicate things too much?
Here in Sweden - now facing the 2nd wave - they talk about face masks as something possibly obligatory in certain situations as well. Let's see.
Basically the only main difference between England and Sweden is the FINES.
Is it the fines that bothers you the most in the English approach? Do you think people would give a shit more if the fines weren't there? 🤔
The simple and only reason Sweden have NOT implemented Fines during the Corona pandemic, is that they have no police to offer for these matters! 😁
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Sept 24, 2020 11:33:19 GMT
Perhaps stating the obvious but does this new scheme now put the entire nation at risk of shorter hours?
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 24, 2020 11:40:30 GMT
Perhaps stating the obvious but does this new scheme now put the entire nation at risk of shorter hours? I believe the plan is to keep it at 60 minutes for the moment.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 24, 2020 11:47:50 GMT
Thank You very much huddysleftfoot, hotterpotter and thisisouryear for sharing the info regarding how the restrictions in England look like to prevent Corona from spreading!👍 I have went through the pages here and now I fully understand why Tegnell has claimed the similarities between Sweden and England on how to tackle the pandemic. And about 0.06% of the population in both countries have died from Covid-19. The restrictions are only described more in detail in England, it's like a freakin' Law book! 😳Tegnell on the other hand was worried our 4-5 pages were too much to keep in mind. Wash your hands ... social distancing ... England talk about small groups of 6 people and The Support Bubble. You must wear a face mask in certain situations, for instance on public transports. However, if you have a medical reason for it, you don't have to - but you don't have to show a written document of that medical condition of yours. Isn't that to complicate things too much? Here in Sweden - now facing the 2nd wave - they talk about face masks as something possibly obligatory in certain situations as well. Let's see. Basically the only main difference between England and Sweden is the FINES. Is it the fines that bothers you the most in the English approach? Do you think people would give a shit more if the fines weren't there? 🤔 The simple and only reason Sweden have NOT implemented Fines during the Corona pandemic, is that they have no police to offer for these matters! 😁 It seems to me that in practice England and Sweden have and are doing very similar things despite the supposed difference in approach - with very similar outcomes. The main difference appears to be Sweden have relied more on personal responsibility and the English approach is now relying more on coercion through fines because of (probably justified) fears over non-compliance. In your experience are the Swedish people still voluntarily following restrictions or is non-compliance becoming an issue?
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