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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 13, 2020 23:19:32 GMT
Bizarre really. We were told masks were 'swings and roundabouts' in the benefits stakes when Covid was cleaning out 1,200 people a day, now it is 14 deaths a day they are suddenly mandatory. It may well be the right thing to do but you can't escape the though 'horse, gate, bolted' can you? My Mum said your last bit and I bollocked her. It’s irrelevant isn’t it? It’s about making sure or at least trying to make sure the next horse doesn’t bolt isn’t it? All whilst trying to reopen the economy?
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Post by essexstokey on Jul 13, 2020 23:19:54 GMT
Don't know if people missed this today or chose not to comment a top expert on BBC news admitted that we should have been wearing face masks from the start but the reason we wernt was the NHS had no ppe so the government could not recommend it as they were incompetent when planning for the virus
Point 2 is an observation from travelling to romford today the public transport face mask are not working 5 people no face mask on way down on the way back it was spot the face mask 4 plus me
Point 3 spoke to a mother of a porter that I know she said the porters are wearing full hazmed suits just to enter a ward to collect bed linen in bags then have to take them off immediately in a control zone and that on 1 day they had to move 27 boddied
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Post by scfcno1fan on Jul 14, 2020 6:13:12 GMT
Yeah surely the government didn’t recommend masks at the beginning as they didn’t want individuals to take PPE away from the NHS.
Now the market has corrected itself, with plenty of supply, they recommend them.
That’s my take anyway.
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Post by drfishy on Jul 14, 2020 6:30:56 GMT
Yeah surely the government didn’t recommend masks at the beginning as they didn’t want individuals to take PPE away from the NHS. Now the market has corrected itself, with plenty of supply, they recommend them. That’s my take anyway. I would agree with that - however I always thought there was an argument for face coverings(not PPE) early on, and if some had face masks then it could be argued that if they didn't spread it then NHS wouldn't need as many masks, as there would be less people to treat.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 14, 2020 6:51:56 GMT
I'm sure I read somewhere recently that an outbreak is actually counted if there are 2 or more cases in a particular place so, yes, I can believe it. I suppose you could always count each 'outbreak' twice...
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Post by Davef on Jul 14, 2020 7:39:04 GMT
We'll have to see how this all pans out but my view is that's it's unnecessary and divisive.
For starters, a good proportion of the population (20-30%) will be exempt due to health conditions such as lung and heart problems. People with learning difficulties will struggle as will those who rely on lip reading. There will doubtless be confrontations in supermarkets and shops and it really is an extra burden that the police can do without. Then again, I suppose with every shoplifter (an offence that will inevitably Increase by the way) they can't catch, there's always the £100 spot fines they can dish out, so you win some, you lose some.
There was a Tory minister on the radio the other day who said that masks in shops will give people the confidence to go shopping again, so in reality this isn't much to do with health issues as it is getting the economy back on track. Time will tell on that, but there's just as much chance that the High Street will suffer as customers reject this and do more online shopping.
Then there'll be the green lobby complaining that the many discarded masks we'll probably see strewn all over the place are bad for the environment.
And one last point, there have been no infections in Stoke-on-Trent and Newcastle-under-Lyme for two consecutive days and just eight positive cases in Castle over the last week.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 14, 2020 7:49:16 GMT
The man gets worse🙄
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 14, 2020 7:56:25 GMT
Yeah surely the government didn’t recommend masks at the beginning as they didn’t want individuals to take PPE away from the NHS. Now the market has corrected itself, with plenty of supply, they recommend them. That’s my take anyway. Part of it - though in the US masks are a massive civil liberties issue. Johnson and Gove are in awe of most thing 'merican and therefore probably see it as a bigger issue here than it is. Yes people will argue the science is not 100%, that there are exceptions, that it's too late etc ..... pish. Where we are at right here, right now is mostly about prevention of a second wave come winter and anything that will slow any spread that doesn't mean you have to stay in or massively adjust your way of life is surely to be welcome.. It might not be proven to be 100% effective (but then nothing is short of locking yourself away alone in a cellar indefinitely is- even a vaccine won't be 100% effective) but it's not going to do any harm - so as a matter of respect to your fellow citizens in a crisis is it really too much to ask you to put a bit of paper or cloth in front of your mouth when you go to the shops?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 8:19:25 GMT
Mandatory face coverings In shops is a massive infringement on our civil liberties Creates lots of problems. Supermarkets etc I get but what about a local village store that doubles as a cafe? Nipping into a shop for one item when out walking cycling etc Yet so many lockdown rules have been slowly been discarded as we try and get normality are far worse than shops Behave man. In the grand scheme of things it’s nothing......
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Post by thebet365 on Jul 14, 2020 8:23:16 GMT
Don't know if people missed this today or chose not to comment a top expert on BBC news admitted that we should have been wearing face masks from the start but the reason we wernt was the NHS had no ppe so the government could not recommend it as they were incompetent when planning for the virus They should have got Sandra from Facebook on, she could have told them that.
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Post by salopstick on Jul 14, 2020 8:27:58 GMT
Mandatory face coverings In shops is a massive infringement on our civil liberties Creates lots of problems. Supermarkets etc I get but what about a local village store that doubles as a cafe? Nipping into a shop for one item when out walking cycling etc Yet so many lockdown rules have been slowly been discarded as we try and get normality are far worse than shops Behave man. In the grand scheme of things it’s nothing...... Really? Read davef’s post above. It’s either compulsory masks everywhere or not at all. Shop workers exempt so are 30 or so % of the population are exempt Pubs restaurants gyms exempt It’s a massive civil liberties issue. Then what’s next?
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Post by Northy on Jul 14, 2020 8:34:52 GMT
Bizarre really. We were told masks were 'swings and roundabouts' in the benefits stakes when Covid was cleaning out 1,200 people a day, now it is 14 deaths a day they are suddenly mandatory. It may well be the right thing to do but you can't escape the thought 'horse, gate, bolted' can you? The scientists were saying to the government they do more harm than good in the early days, even now there's disagreement between the experts on how good they can be, suppose if you could get hold of one it was always a choice you could make yourself to wear one.
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Post by Veritas on Jul 14, 2020 8:39:59 GMT
Behave man. In the grand scheme of things it’s nothing...... Really? Read davef’s post above. It’s either compulsory masks everywhere or not at all. Shop workers exempt so are 30 or so % of the population are exempt Pubs restaurants gyms exempt It’s a massive civil liberties issue. Then what’s next? It's not a civil liberty issue it is just another half arsed, semi-thought through measure from Johnson and the rest of his troupe of clowns.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 14, 2020 8:42:54 GMT
Bizarre really. We were told masks were 'swings and roundabouts' in the benefits stakes when Covid was cleaning out 1,200 people a day, now it is 14 deaths a day they are suddenly mandatory. It may well be the right thing to do but you can't escape the thought 'horse, gate, bolted' can you? The scientists were saying to the government they do more harm than good in the early days, even now there's disagreement between the experts on how good they can be, suppose if you could get hold of one it was always a choice you could make yourself to wear one. They're pretty easy to get hold of if you can be bothered. They're on sale in both my local Co-op and Morrisons FFS.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 14, 2020 8:45:41 GMT
Behave man. In the grand scheme of things it’s nothing...... Really? Read davef’s post above. It’s either compulsory masks everywhere or not at all. Shop workers exempt so are 30 or so % of the population are exempt Pubs restaurants gyms exempt It’s a massive civil liberties issue. Then what’s next? Don't wear one then. It's unlikely you will be prosecuted (zero prosecutions for breach of quarantine so far) - but at least we'll be able to see who amongst us doesn't give a fuck about anyone else's health and wellbeing.
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Post by musik on Jul 14, 2020 8:51:06 GMT
Odd. About 10-20% of all people in a grocery store here in Sweden wear a face mask today. When we had the peak it was lower than 1%.
It shows most here would follow what anyone says, as long as it comes from an authority.
IF a 2nd wave is coming (I personally don't like to talk of waves, but for simplicity now), I'd say 40-50% will probably use a face mask then.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 8:56:34 GMT
Behave man. In the grand scheme of things it’s nothing...... Really? Read davef’s post above. It’s either compulsory masks everywhere or not at all. Shop workers exempt so are 30 or so % of the population are exempt Pubs restaurants gyms exempt It’s a massive civil liberties issue. Then what’s next? I've read it, there's always of examples of people that will be adversely affected by things such as this. The trick is to manage those exceptions and put something in place to counter them. If a fully functioning grown man can't cover his face with a cheap mask from the pound shop whilst doing his grocery shopping for half an hour, or when buying a pair of jeans then I give up.......
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Post by thisisouryear on Jul 14, 2020 9:03:08 GMT
Bizarre really. We were told masks were 'swings and roundabouts' in the benefits stakes when Covid was cleaning out 1,200 people a day, now it is 14 deaths a day they are suddenly mandatory. It may well be the right thing to do but you can't escape the thought 'horse, gate, bolted' can you? The scientists were saying to the government they do more harm than good in the early days, even now there's disagreement between the experts on how good they can be, suppose if you could get hold of one it was always a choice you could make yourself to wear one. The virus is mostly caught because it is airborne and wearing a mask limits it's chances of spreading because the mask catches the virus. Scientist's were saying it doesn't help people who were not infected because the virus can land on the mask and people can touch the mask them touch their face....but if someone infected is wearing a mask then it hugely decreases the chance of the virus being in the air so much that it reduces it from landing on other peoples masks. To try and explain it in a way I understand it's like turning a mushroom cloud from an atomic bomb into a house fire.
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Post by essexstokey on Jul 14, 2020 9:04:41 GMT
Behave man. In the grand scheme of things it’s nothing...... Really? Read davef’s post above. It’s either compulsory masks everywhere or not at all. Shop workers exempt so are 30 or so % of the population are exempt Pubs restaurants gyms exempt It’s a massive civil liberties issue. Then what’s next? That we are run by a tin pot idiotic corrupt racist dictator and his unelected mate oh hang on we allready are
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Post by Gods on Jul 14, 2020 9:06:06 GMT
Bizarre really. We were told masks were 'swings and roundabouts' in the benefits stakes when Covid was cleaning out 1,200 people a day, now it is 14 deaths a day they are suddenly mandatory. It may well be the right thing to do but you can't escape the thought 'horse, gate, bolted' can you? The scientists were saying to the government they do more harm than good in the early days, even now there's disagreement between the experts on how good they can be, suppose if you could get hold of one it was always a choice you could make yourself to wear one. Yep. They were saying you could put your mask down on a dodgy surface and put it back on and hey presto you have Covid. Also that it can breed over confidence, put one one and you are safe and can do anything . Clearly that view has changed and the benefits are now thought to outweigh the risks. I'm going to have to start wearing one however silly you might look with a tampon stuck on your mush!
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Post by Davef on Jul 14, 2020 9:25:27 GMT
The scientists were saying to the government they do more harm than good in the early days, even now there's disagreement between the experts on how good they can be, suppose if you could get hold of one it was always a choice you could make yourself to wear one. The virus is mostly caught because it is airborne and wearing a mask limits it's chances of spreading because the mask catches the virus. Scientist's were saying it doesn't help people who were not infected because the virus can land on the mask and people can touch the mask them touch their face....but if someone infected is wearing a mask then it hugely decreases the chance of the virus being in the air so much that it reduces it from landing on other peoples masks. To try and explain it in a way I understand it's like turning a mushroom cloud from an atomic bomb into a house fire. The virus can be caught through all mucus membranes, which includes your eyes.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 14, 2020 9:31:37 GMT
The virus is mostly caught because it is airborne and wearing a mask limits it's chances of spreading because the mask catches the virus. Scientist's were saying it doesn't help people who were not infected because the virus can land on the mask and people can touch the mask them touch their face....but if someone infected is wearing a mask then it hugely decreases the chance of the virus being in the air so much that it reduces it from landing on other peoples masks. To try and explain it in a way I understand it's like turning a mushroom cloud from an atomic bomb into a house fire. The virus can be caught through all mucus membranes, which includes your eyes. However you don't exhale through your eyes.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 14, 2020 9:38:22 GMT
Behave man. In the grand scheme of things it’s nothing...... Really? Read davef’s post above. It’s either compulsory masks everywhere or not at all. Shop workers exempt so are 30 or so % of the population are exempt Pubs restaurants gyms exempt It’s a massive civil liberties issue. Then what’s next? I just see mardarsing from people of a certain age who don't like being told what to do. It's really odd.
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Post by thisisouryear on Jul 14, 2020 9:42:27 GMT
The virus is mostly caught because it is airborne and wearing a mask limits it's chances of spreading because the mask catches the virus. Scientist's were saying it doesn't help people who were not infected because the virus can land on the mask and people can touch the mask them touch their face....but if someone infected is wearing a mask then it hugely decreases the chance of the virus being in the air so much that it reduces it from landing on other peoples masks. To try and explain it in a way I understand it's like turning a mushroom cloud from an atomic bomb into a house fire. The virus can be caught through all mucus membranes, which includes your eyes. I thought that was unproven? I suppose you could touch your eyes then you mouth. I don't know the science behind that. It still helps the case for wearing a mask because it means less of the virus is allowed to be present in the air.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 14, 2020 10:15:20 GMT
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Jul 14, 2020 10:25:41 GMT
How dare you! Millions of brits love holidaying in those ‘grim’ living conditions.😂 the good old British Holiday
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 14, 2020 10:52:06 GMT
Seen some posts RE masks and why don’t we do it for flu etc. There are various reasons you could put down but it got me thinking about just how laissez faire this nation is when it comes to public health.
The easiest, most efficient and least impactful public health intervention for dealing with seasonal flu would be case isolation, and not going anywhere for a couple of days if you have symptoms. How many of us “soldier” on when we gave a “cold” despite feeling like crap? How many of us have to go into work when we feel this way, how many of us get public transport in order to do so etc. You’d never dream of visiting an elderly relative when you felt this way, so why is it commonly acceptable to go to work and such when you are infectious? Because ultimately, that’s where it ends up.
I don’t think masks are the answer for seasonal flu, but I do think we could knock a couple of thousand deaths of the annual flu total by reappraising our habits when it comes to working when ill. I count both employers and employees in that statement. That and generally improving our national hygiene which 5 minutes in the bet365 bogs will show you there is a lot of room for. There was a study a few years at a service station showing just 32% of men and 60% of women washing hands after using the toilet. That is disgusting.
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Post by AlliG on Jul 14, 2020 10:58:04 GMT
Mandatory face coverings In shops is a massive infringement on our civil liberties Creates lots of problems. Supermarkets etc I get but what about a local village store that doubles as a cafe? Nipping into a shop for one item when out walking cycling etc Yet so many lockdown rules have been slowly been discarded as we try and get normality are far worse than shops On the brightside, it's going to make robbing petrol stations a lot easier. The TV companies won't like it. Crimewatch, Caught on Camera and all those other "real crime" programmes are going to be a bit "samey". 60 minutes of showing stills of someone wearing blue facemasks. Perhaps someone should start marketing special facemasks for the criminally minded to help your local villain stand out from the hoi polloi.
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Post by OldStokie on Jul 14, 2020 11:01:20 GMT
That's scandalous, Paul, but not surprising. Agriculture and food processing has long been known for terrible working conditions, and many of the workers are immigrants from Eastern Europe. Just like those workers in Leicester, we have an underground almost slave culture workforce being taken advantage of by unscrupulous companies. And it's not just the UK where this is happening. Germany didn't open its doors to a million refugees from the Middle East and North Africa because they wanted to 'do the right thing'. Cheap labour is a valuable commodity to any country. And the unions are right. This virus is oncovering things that have been hidden for years. So let's see what Johnson/Cummings do when it all comes out in the virus wash. As far as face coverings/masks are concerned, I had to go for some blood tests yesterday and wore one for the first time. It didn't faze me one bit. Here's a good tip for those who wear specs and need to wear a mask, which will probably cause your specs to mist up. Cover the end of your thumb and forefinger with Fairy Liquid; smear it thoroughly over both sides of the lenses; then use a tissue to clean them but don't apply water. That will ensure your specs don't mist up. I'm the man to go to with this stuff. OS.
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Post by Northy on Jul 14, 2020 11:05:31 GMT
Looks far better than some of the mess decks I've seen on a Royal Navy ship
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