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Post by shrewspotter on Oct 3, 2020 8:04:35 GMT
spot on I recall sticking up for Tymon after Jones disgracefully hauled him off before half time v Preston, there is a player in Tymon and same goes for Edwards. Tymon went out on loan, Edwards needs to do the same nothing controversial about that in fairness..... I think that he can easily be back up to Tommy Smith at RB or RWB. Over recent years we’ve sent out players and replaced these players with “superior” players therefore overlooking our younger players Having said that in Souttars case his loan has undoubtably made him a more accomplished player
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Post by bolders on Oct 3, 2020 8:11:08 GMT
Send him fleetwood for a couple of months, until the next window opens, and see if he has the mentality to step up to the task
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Post by biglad180 on Oct 3, 2020 8:14:22 GMT
Send him fleetwood for a couple of months, until the next window opens, and see if he has the mentality to step up to the task might not be a bad idea that,did not do Harry Soutter any harm
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Post by cobhamstokey on Oct 3, 2020 8:16:34 GMT
Send him fleetwood for a couple of months, until the next window opens, and see if he has the mentality to step up to the task might not be a bad idea that,did not do Harry Soutter any harm Barton would sort him out one way or another
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 3, 2020 8:20:29 GMT
A loan is surely a better option than getting rid of him permanently at this point. We wouldn't get much (if anything) for him if we got rid and his wages will be amongst the lowest in the squad so a permanent move would hardly dent our FFP situation.
On the other hand a loan to a club which would play him regularly (preferably at wing back, which looks as if it would suit him better than right back?) would give MON a chance to see if he is worth persevering with. By the end of the season we will be in a position to say goodbye or bring him back into the fold in the hope that he is finally able to build on his undoubted potential.
My main memories of Edwards are the first time I saw him, when he came on in the youth cup at the Man City academy stadium - he didn't change the result but he immediately produced more decent balls for our forwards from the right than had happened in the game up to that point. I also remember in another game, two sublime long diagonal balls to the left wing which no other Stoke player seemed capable of. Didn't he also put over a superb corner against (I think) Man City in the league - minutes before getting injured? I'd hate him to build on those skills at another club without us giving him regular games at a loan club first. As long as he is aware that any loan will be the last chance saloon for him, I don't see anything against it. Do Fleetwood play with wing backs? Joey Barton (love him or hate him) did Souttar plenty of good when he had him on loan.
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Post by FullerMagic on Oct 3, 2020 8:21:02 GMT
Interesting to see where he ends up. Hull mentioned by the Sentinel. Would've thought he could do better than that - but no point going somewhere he won't get loads of games. www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-transfer-josh-tymon-4560356The 21-year-old right-back had been on Hull’s agenda earlier in the window but was keen to fight for his place at Stoke.
There are interested parties in higher divisions too and although it remains to be seen if he will leave on loan or permanently, it is clear he does not feature in the immediate plans of O’Neill. He played for the under-23s in a 3-0 defeat at Wolves on Monday and hasn’t featured in a league match in 2020.
Stoke, in turn, could be tempted to bring in another right-back to offer competition and cover for Tommy Smith, who has played all six games in league and cup so far this season.
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Post by bolders on Oct 3, 2020 8:28:09 GMT
Loan him out and loan someone, young, from the prem as cover?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2020 11:43:21 GMT
Just play the lad.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2020 11:49:49 GMT
Not if he isn't training well or staying fit. MON takes no prisoners, even McClean got dropped by him. There'll be times when the fans don't like it, I bet he'd never have played Bojan, but it's necessary and you need someone with the stones to do it.
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Post by christhepotter on Oct 3, 2020 12:06:12 GMT
Why when he’s know where near good enough
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2020 12:26:40 GMT
Not if he isn't training well or staying fit. MON takes no prisoners, even McClean got dropped by him. There'll be times when the fans don't like it, I bet he'd never have played Bojan, but it's necessary and you need someone with the stones to do it. If MON wouldn't play bojjer then he's just as thick as the others who didnt know who to use him properly. He's already dropped TE, so at this point it's point made. Smith has no resale value, is average at this level and can't cross as well. I get bored of saying it but TE is a midfielder first and foremost, fullback second. It's not just "cram him at fullback or fuck him off" He's absolutely good enough and needs managing. Fucking him off to Hull is just lazy and shit "management"
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Post by trenthamshtaniuk on Oct 3, 2020 12:26:58 GMT
Season long loan to Hull with game time would do him the world of good.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 3, 2020 12:38:33 GMT
Not if he isn't training well or staying fit. MON takes no prisoners, even McClean got dropped by him. There'll be times when the fans don't like it, I bet he'd never have played Bojan, but it's necessary and you need someone with the stones to do it. If MON wouldn't play bojjer then he's just as thick as the others who didnt know who to use him properly. He's already dropped TE, so at this point it's point made. Smith has no resale value, is average at this level and can't cross as well. I get bored of saying it but TE is a midfielder first and foremost, fullback second. It's not just "cram him at fullback or fuck him off" He's absolutely good enough and needs managing. Fucking him off to Hull is just lazy and shit "management" It’s only ‘point made’ if he’s responded to it though surely?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2020 12:46:11 GMT
We don't see him every day and the manager does
you earn your place and he obviously isn't doing so
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Oct 3, 2020 12:52:59 GMT
Not if he isn't training well or staying fit. MON takes no prisoners, even McClean got dropped by him. There'll be times when the fans don't like it, I bet he'd never have played Bojan, but it's necessary and you need someone with the stones to do it. If MON wouldn't play bojjer then he's just as thick as the others who didnt know who to use him properly. He's already dropped TE, so at this point it's point made. Smith has no resale value, is average at this level and can't cross as well. I get bored of saying it but TE is a midfielder first and foremost, fullback second. It's not just "cram him at fullback or fuck him off" He's absolutely good enough and needs managing. Fucking him off to Hull is just lazy and shit "management" He is obviously not, absolutely good enough.
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Post by datguy on Oct 3, 2020 12:59:37 GMT
Tymon, Souttar, Collins, Campbell, TOB have played significantly this season.
I think it's fair to say Tom is the problem, not the mismanagement from MO'N. Whether it's an attitude problem or what, I don't know.
Hull's a bit of a step down from the supposed Premier League interest isn't it?
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 3, 2020 13:00:33 GMT
Not if he isn't training well or staying fit. MON takes no prisoners, even McClean got dropped by him. There'll be times when the fans don't like it, I bet he'd never have played Bojan, but it's necessary and you need someone with the stones to do it. If MON wouldn't play bojjer then he's just as thick as the others who didnt know who to use him properly. He's already dropped TE, so at this point it's point made. Smith has no resale value, is average at this level and can't cross as well. I get bored of saying it but TE is a midfielder first and foremost, fullback second. It's not just "cram him at fullback or fuck him off" He's absolutely good enough and needs managing. Fucking him off to Hull is just lazy and shit "management" If his attitude isn't right get rid. The attitude of the players involved this season has been first class - there is genuine competition for places and good performances are earning places into the starting 11 and anyone below par is getting benched but cracking on. O'Neill gave all the youngsters a bit of a rollocking and for the most part they've responded well and been rewarded. The fact that Edwards is no where near the bench for either the league or cup games speaks volumes.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Oct 3, 2020 13:20:18 GMT
Not if he isn't training well or staying fit. MON takes no prisoners, even McClean got dropped by him. There'll be times when the fans don't like it, I bet he'd never have played Bojan, but it's necessary and you need someone with the stones to do it. If MON wouldn't play bojjer then he's just as thick as the others who didnt know who to use him properly. He's already dropped TE, so at this point it's point made. Smith has no resale value, is average at this level and can't cross as well. I get bored of saying it but TE is a midfielder first and foremost, fullback second. It's not just "cram him at fullback or fuck him off" He's absolutely good enough and needs managing. Fucking him off to Hull is just lazy and shit "management" On what basis do you think he’s a midfielder? He has an ok cross but no ability to go past a man or keep the ball I’m tight situations. Go back to his horror show at home to Reading and he couldn’t get past Charlie Adam and that plus two or three lazy errors to give away possession led to him being subbed at half-time. He needs to go on loan, play regularly and learn how to defend. For now, he is nowhere near competing to start in the squad
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Post by bolders on Oct 3, 2020 13:27:35 GMT
Not if he isn't training well or staying fit. MON takes no prisoners, even McClean got dropped by him. There'll be times when the fans don't like it, I bet he'd never have played Bojan, but it's necessary and you need someone with the stones to do it. If MON wouldn't play bojjer then he's just as thick as the others who didnt know who to use him properly. He's already dropped TE, so at this point it's point made. Smith has no resale value, is average at this level and can't cross as well. I get bored of saying it but TE is a midfielder first and foremost, fullback second. It's not just "cram him at fullback or fuck him off" He's absolutely good enough and needs managing. Fucking him off to Hull is just lazy and shit "management" Pretty sure there is evidence to disprove that notion about smith Tom has never been a midfielder always played at RB or RWB
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Post by mamasgloves on Oct 3, 2020 13:55:56 GMT
Not if he isn't training well or staying fit. MON takes no prisoners, even McClean got dropped by him. There'll be times when the fans don't like it, I bet he'd never have played Bojan, but it's necessary and you need someone with the stones to do it. If MON wouldn't play bojjer then he's just as thick as the others who didnt know who to use him properly. He's already dropped TE, so at this point it's point made. Smith has no resale value, is average at this level and can't cross as well. I get bored of saying it but TE is a midfielder first and foremost, fullback second. It's not just "cram him at fullback or fuck him off" He's absolutely good enough and needs managing. Fucking him off to Hull is just lazy and shit "management" There's some plums on this board isn't there? A midfielder? Are you on monkey dust? As for Smith not being able to cross, he was literally the most accurate crosser in the league last season. Jesus hates Christ
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2020 13:57:19 GMT
If MON wouldn't play bojjer then he's just as thick as the others who didnt know who to use him properly. He's already dropped TE, so at this point it's point made. Smith has no resale value, is average at this level and can't cross as well. I get bored of saying it but TE is a midfielder first and foremost, fullback second. It's not just "cram him at fullback or fuck him off" He's absolutely good enough and needs managing. Fucking him off to Hull is just lazy and shit "management" Pretty sure there is evidence to disprove that notion about smith Tom has never been a midfielder always played at RB or RWB Shows how much you know about the academy I suppose. EDIT: I said "Can't cross *as* well" which he can't.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2020 14:06:23 GMT
If MON wouldn't play bojjer then he's just as thick as the others who didnt know who to use him properly. He's already dropped TE, so at this point it's point made. Smith has no resale value, is average at this level and can't cross as well. I get bored of saying it but TE is a midfielder first and foremost, fullback second. It's not just "cram him at fullback or fuck him off" He's absolutely good enough and needs managing. Fucking him off to Hull is just lazy and shit "management" If his attitude isn't right get rid. The attitude of the players involved this season has been first class - there is genuine competition for places and good performances are earning places into the starting 11 and anyone below par is getting benched but cracking on. O'Neill gave all the youngsters a bit of a rollocking and for the most part they've responded well and been rewarded. The fact that Edwards is no where near the bench for either the league or cup games speaks volumes. I'll reply to this, a more sensible post rather than some of the more hysterical nonsense below. It's interesting to me that TE has said he wants to stay and fight for a place in the squad publicly, got himself trim and fit - two things that address the attitude and fitness issues. So as a manager, at what point do you look at those signals and test the player again, or force them out regardless? If he can give Tymon opportunities after his horror show performances over the past few years he can do the same for TE but I feel like it might be more a personal thing and perhaps MON has an opinion that won't change. I don't think a loan would be a bad thing if we were to bring him back a fitter more experienced player with a view to replace smith who let's be honest has a sell-by date approaching if it isn't already kicking in now. It's that same old debate for me: Young player doesn't totally smash it. Stoke Fans: "bUrN tHe wItcH" Realistically who are we going to bring in to do that job, Brown? maybe so, he's not a defender though and it's a long long season.
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Post by bolders on Oct 3, 2020 14:10:44 GMT
Pretty sure there is evidence to disprove that notion about smith Tom has never been a midfielder always played at RB or RWB Shows how much you know about the academy I suppose. EDIT: I said "Can't cross *as* well" which he can't. well in all Toms games from u23 to now he has only been credited for 4 assists Smith did that in 30 games last season so i think your wrong there
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 3, 2020 14:12:47 GMT
If his attitude isn't right get rid. The attitude of the players involved this season has been first class - there is genuine competition for places and good performances are earning places into the starting 11 and anyone below par is getting benched but cracking on. O'Neill gave all the youngsters a bit of a rollocking and for the most part they've responded well and been rewarded. The fact that Edwards is no where near the bench for either the league or cup games speaks volumes. I'll reply to this, a more sensible post rather than some of the more hysterical nonsense below. It's interesting to me that TE has said he wants to stay and fight for a place in the squad publicly, got himself trim and fit - two things that address the attitude and fitness issues. So as a manager, at what point do you look at those signals and test the player again, or force them out regardless? If he can give Tymon opportunities after his horror show performances over the past few years he can do the same for TE but I feel like it might be more a personal thing and perhaps MON has an opinion that won't change. I don't think a loan would be a bad thing if we were to bring him back a fitter more experienced player with a view to replace smith who let's be honest has a sell-by date approaching if it isn't already kicking in now. It's that same old debate for me: Young player doesn't totally smash it. Stoke Fans: "bUrN tHe wItcH" Realistically who are we going to bring in to do that job, Brown? maybe so, he's not a defender though and it's a long long season. Edwards will say that but is he actually doing it? Is it not a bit odd that Tymon, Collins, Souttar, TOB are all getting game time but he isn’t? Would that not appear to suggest it may be down to the player himself at least partly?
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Post by mamasgloves on Oct 3, 2020 14:27:59 GMT
Pretty sure there is evidence to disprove that notion about smith Tom has never been a midfielder always played at RB or RWB Shows how much you know about the academy I suppose. EDIT: I said "Can't cross *as* well" which he can't. As well as Edwards? How many assists has he had in the first team then?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2020 14:28:17 GMT
I'll reply to this, a more sensible post rather than some of the more hysterical nonsense below. It's interesting to me that TE has said he wants to stay and fight for a place in the squad publicly, got himself trim and fit - two things that address the attitude and fitness issues. So as a manager, at what point do you look at those signals and test the player again, or force them out regardless? If he can give Tymon opportunities after his horror show performances over the past few years he can do the same for TE but I feel like it might be more a personal thing and perhaps MON has an opinion that won't change. I don't think a loan would be a bad thing if we were to bring him back a fitter more experienced player with a view to replace smith who let's be honest has a sell-by date approaching if it isn't already kicking in now. It's that same old debate for me: Young player doesn't totally smash it. Stoke Fans: "bUrN tHe wItcH" Realistically who are we going to bring in to do that job, Brown? maybe so, he's not a defender though and it's a long long season. Edwards will say that but is he actually doing it? Is it not a bit odd that Tymon, Collins, Souttar, TOB are all getting game time but he isn’t? Would that not appear to suggest it may be down to the player himself at least partly? All the more reason to keep him around and test him or if MON is dead set against it, send him on loan with a necessary condition that we dont flog him off for a half a freddo.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 3, 2020 14:29:54 GMT
Edwards will say that but is he actually doing it? Is it not a bit odd that Tymon, Collins, Souttar, TOB are all getting game time but he isn’t? Would that not appear to suggest it may be down to the player himself at least partly? All the more reason to keep him around and test him or if MON is dead set against it, send him on loan with a necessary condition that we dont flog him off for a half a freddo. How long do you test him for though if he’s showing no signs currently? A sink or swim loan at least gets him minutes.
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Post by bgreen13 on Oct 3, 2020 14:44:14 GMT
Send him on loan to a Scottish team, away from his alleged bad influences and hopefully he'll come back focused.
There's a good player in there.
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Post by march4 on Oct 3, 2020 14:48:09 GMT
Any sort of offer from a club and I’d let him go.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2020 15:06:56 GMT
All the more reason to keep him around and test him or if MON is dead set against it, send him on loan with a necessary condition that we dont flog him off for a half a freddo. How long do you test him for though if he’s showing no signs currently? A sink or swim loan at least gets him minutes. I dont think there's any harm in trying him out til January, then you could loan, that's a few months! As I said earlier - it's a managers job to bring the potential out of players, not just (for whatever reason) block youngsters out when things aren't perfect.
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