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Post by franklin on Jan 11, 2024 16:44:02 GMT
Just watched the "lead/ Head of investigation" and I'll be honest he's fucking thick and has admitted to the enquiry that he lied on statements and allowed others/ solicitors to draft evidential statements for him to just sign for Court. He'll be looking forward to being arrested and interviewed himself very shortly the cunt. What was that on? I'll see if it's on catch up later. BBC news channel mate.
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Post by franklin on Jan 11, 2024 16:52:55 GMT
On the 23rd of December 2022, Cartwright King Solicitors entered administration and its assets were acquired by a new company, with a completely new management team. None of the employees, owners or managers who were involved in advising the Post Office remain with the new company and had left Cartwright King prior to its acquisition by the new owners. How much responsibility should this new company have. If they have gone "bust" on purpose surely they would have changed name Who said the new company should have ANY responsibility? What is convenient, is that the lawyers who Bradshaw fingered today, no longer work there. I'd hazard a guess that if any of those persons are still working they'll very quickly find themselves unable to practice law and subject to criminal investigations. The preparations of witnesses statements is beyond belief and for that dumbass to admit they were not his words and sign them is staggering. All kinds of criminal behaviour was documented in his evidence today and as I listened I couldn't believe what I was hearing fraud, perverting the course of justice, misconduct in a public office that's just a few off the top of my head I listed in 30mins or so I watched.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 11, 2024 17:15:44 GMT
Who said the new company should have ANY responsibility? What is convenient, is that the lawyers who Bradshaw fingered today, no longer work there. I'd hazard a guess that if any of those persons are still working they'll very quickly find themselves unable to practice law and subject to criminal investigations. The preparations of witnesses statements is beyond belief and for that dumbass to admit they were not his words and sign them is staggering. All kinds of criminal behaviour was documented in his evidence today and as I listened I couldn't believe what I was hearing fraud, perverting the course of justice, misconduct in a public office that's just a few off the top of my head I listed in 30mins or so I watched. Let's hope so mate. I watched most (several hours) of it and (I like you) really couldn't believe what I was hearing. Not only was he village idiot stupid but he came across as an arrogant, unhinged, bully, who simply enjoyed prosecuting innocent people. If this was him on this best behaviour in front of a judge, just imagine what he was like when dealing with postmasters in their own homes and post offices. Probably a better example of the culture at the PO at the time, you couldn't actually get ...
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Post by salopstick on Jan 11, 2024 17:59:25 GMT
On the 23rd of December 2022, Cartwright King Solicitors entered administration and its assets were acquired by a new company, with a completely new management team. None of the employees, owners or managers who were involved in advising the Post Office remain with the new company and had left Cartwright King prior to its acquisition by the new owners. How much responsibility should this new company have. If they have gone "bust" on purpose surely they would have changed name Who said the new company should have ANY responsibility? What is convenient, is that the law firm who Bradshaw fingered today, no longer exists. Are you suggesting they went bust on purpose. If so the directors etc will still be able to be tracked down.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 11, 2024 18:08:02 GMT
Who said the new company should have ANY responsibility? What is convenient, is that the lawyers who Bradshaw fingered today, no longer work there. I'd hazard a guess that if any of those persons are still working they'll very quickly find themselves unable to practice law and subject to criminal investigations. The preparations of witnesses statements is beyond belief and for that dumbass to admit they were not his words and sign them is staggering. All kinds of criminal behaviour was documented in his evidence today and as I listened I couldn't believe what I was hearing fraud, perverting the course of justice, misconduct in a public office that's just a few off the top of my head I listed in 30mins or so I watched. True story that happened to me, in essence all correct but I may have got the timings slightly wrong. On a Friday or Saturday, when I was about 15 I bought either a radio or cassette player ( can't remember now) from an electrical shop in Town Road , Hanley, on the other side of the block that contained Webberley's book shop. It didn't work properly. I Went back on the Monday. The name on the front of the shop had changed. I went in. The shop was laid out exactly the same and the people were the same. They explained to me that that business had closed down and this was now a new business and they were very sorry there was nothing they could do. What made it worse was they were really, really nice , sympathetic and understanding.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 11, 2024 18:08:03 GMT
Who said the new company should have ANY responsibility? What is convenient, is that the law firm who Bradshaw fingered today, no longer exists. Are you suggesting they went bust on purpose. If so the directors etc will still be able to be tracked down. I think that maybe you're seeing things that aren't there. But yes, let's hope the crooks can and will be tracked down.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 11, 2024 18:12:26 GMT
I'd hazard a guess that if any of those persons are still working they'll very quickly find themselves unable to practice law and subject to criminal investigations. The preparations of witnesses statements is beyond belief and for that dumbass to admit they were not his words and sign them is staggering. All kinds of criminal behaviour was documented in his evidence today and as I listened I couldn't believe what I was hearing fraud, perverting the course of justice, misconduct in a public office that's just a few off the top of my head I listed in 30mins or so I watched. True story that happened to me, in essence all correct but I may have got the timings slightly wrong. On a Friday or Saturday, when I was about 15 I bought either a radio or cassette player ( can't remember now) from an electrical shop in Town Road , Hanley, on the other side of the block that contained Webberley's book shop. It didn't work properly. I Went back on the Monday. The name on the front of the shop had changed. I went in. The shop was laid out exactly the same and the people were the same. They explained to me that that business had closed down and this was now a new business and they were very sorry there was nothing they could do. What made it worse was they were really, really nice , sympathetic and understanding. That was convenient for them. I''d have gone back later and put their windows through!
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Post by toppercorner on Jan 11, 2024 18:14:38 GMT
Which clearly demonstrates that a conspiracy has taken place. How could there be a bonus system in place for successful prosecutions, whilst at the same time, the subpostmasters were officially being told, that they were the only ones who were having issues? an excellent point
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Post by franklin on Jan 11, 2024 18:15:59 GMT
I'd hazard a guess that if any of those persons are still working they'll very quickly find themselves unable to practice law and subject to criminal investigations. The preparations of witnesses statements is beyond belief and for that dumbass to admit they were not his words and sign them is staggering. All kinds of criminal behaviour was documented in his evidence today and as I listened I couldn't believe what I was hearing fraud, perverting the course of justice, misconduct in a public office that's just a few off the top of my head I listed in 30mins or so I watched. Let's hope so mate. I watched most (several hours) of it and (I like you) really couldn't believe what I was hearing. Not only was he village idiot stupid but he came across as an arrogant, unhinged, bully, who simply enjoyed prosecuting innocent people. If this was him on this best behaviour in front of a judge, just imagine what he was like when dealing with postmasters in their own homes and post offices. Probably a better example of the culture at the PO at the time, you couldn't actually get ... I have no idea as to his background but his knowledge of how to conduct PACE interviews is piss poor and his knowledge to the written witness statements lead me to believe he has no prior police training if he has then he must have been a shit Cop or a dishonest one because again imho Police officers would know not to sign a statement written by another person where statements of fact are included in that statement if he did not know the facts to be true. Its one of two things for me he's either part of a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice or as I suspect (given his oral evidence today) he was a thick chump doing as he was instructed to do and say by those people above him and he was too stupid to understand the consequences of what he was putting his name to. Either way again imo he's admitted to committing criminal offences and outlined a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice along with lawyers and other PO staff.
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Post by fullmetaljacket on Jan 11, 2024 18:22:47 GMT
A better example of the Post Office culture they could not have found.
More than a bit dim. Inability to even conceive the Post Offce may be in the wrong or something really odd was going on and join the dots. He lied time after time. Seems an odious bully.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 11, 2024 18:22:52 GMT
Let's hope so mate. I watched most (several hours) of it and (I like you) really couldn't believe what I was hearing. Not only was he village idiot stupid but he came across as an arrogant, unhinged, bully, who simply enjoyed prosecuting innocent people. If this was him on this best behaviour in front of a judge, just imagine what he was like when dealing with postmasters in their own homes and post offices. Probably a better example of the culture at the PO at the time, you couldn't actually get ... I have no idea as to his background but his knowledge of how to conduct PACE interviews is piss poor and his knowledge to the written witness statements lead me to believe he has no prior police training if he has then he must have been a shit Cop or a dishonest one because again imho Police officers would know not to sign a statement written by another person where statements of fact are included in that statement if he did not know the facts to be true. Its one of two things for me he's either part of a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice or as I suspect (given his oral evidence today) he was a thick chump doing as he was instructed to do and say by those people above him and he was too stupid to understand the consequences of what he was putting his name to. Either way again imo he's admitted to committing criminal offences and outlined a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice along with lawyers and other PO staff. Yes I agree with you, it is the second option that you have suggested and as he's been employed by the PO since 1976, it's highly unlikely that he's ever been employed by the police. I think what your post demonstrates, is just how ridiculous a policy it is, to allow institutions like the PO to police themselves without any recourse to the police. This sort of corruption based entirely on company profits, rather than a proof of individual guilt was always entirely an inevitable outcome.
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Post by franklin on Jan 11, 2024 18:32:46 GMT
I have no idea as to his background but his knowledge of how to conduct PACE interviews is piss poor and his knowledge to the written witness statements lead me to believe he has no prior police training if he has then he must have been a shit Cop or a dishonest one because again imho Police officers would know not to sign a statement written by another person where statements of fact are included in that statement if he did not know the facts to be true. Its one of two things for me he's either part of a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice or as I suspect (given his oral evidence today) he was a thick chump doing as he was instructed to do and say by those people above him and he was too stupid to understand the consequences of what he was putting his name to. Either way again imo he's admitted to committing criminal offences and outlined a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice along with lawyers and other PO staff. Yes I agree with you, it is the second option that you have suggested and as he's been employed by the PO since 1976, it's highly unlikely that he's ever been employed by the police. I think what your post demonstrates, is just how ridiculous a policy it is, to allow institutions like the PO to police themselves without any recourse to the police. This sort of corruption based entirely on company profits, rather than a proof of individual guilt was always entirely an inevitable outcome. Absolutely he's shown a complete lack of interest in finding the "truth" but a propensity to railroad as many convictions as possible with the lane of least resistance and in as shorter time as possible. That's not an investigation but a set up and it couldn't be clearer. It's heartbreaking to see and hear those innocent people on interview completely petrified at the accusations and despite a doubt their insistence of their guilt made by the interviewing officers.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 11, 2024 19:27:09 GMT
Yes I agree with you, it is the second option that you have suggested and as he's been employed by the PO since 1976, it's highly unlikely that he's ever been employed by the police. I think what your post demonstrates, is just how ridiculous a policy it is, to allow institutions like the PO to police themselves without any recourse to the police. This sort of corruption based entirely on company profits, rather than a proof of individual guilt was always entirely an inevitable outcome. Absolutely he's shown a complete lack of interest in finding the "truth" but a propensity to railroad as many convictions as possible with the lane of least resistance and in as shorter time as possible. That's not an investigation but a set up and it couldn't be clearer. It's heartbreaking to see and hear those innocent people on interview completely petrified at the accusations and despite a doubt their insistence of their guilt made by the interviewing officers. "Read the attached statement made by ex Post Office investigator Stephen Bradshaw for why the Post Office should insist a 47 year old mother and sub postmaster, Jacqueline Macdonald, should be found guilty of theft and not just false accounting. It is shocking. He says that if she was done only for false accounting, the integrity of the precious Fujitsu Horizon system would be undermined in future cases, and the appeals of wrongly convicted sub postmasters would have credibility. Bradshaw had his way. The judge in the trial agreed with him. This woman of no previous convictions was sentenced to 18 months in prison, for theft and false accounting."
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Post by OldStokie on Jan 11, 2024 20:13:22 GMT
A more obvious example of a bully and a liar it would be difficult to find. He acted more like a debt collector working for a dodgy loan company than the position he held. Those grilling him showed what a thick and arrogant bastard he really is.
But how I feel now goes much deeper than that piece of trash. It's taken a TV drama to show practically every single MP of all persuasions up for what they are... self-serving scummers who didn't give a toss for the injustices happening until they were shamed into righting the most obvious of wrongs. I despise them all.
OS.
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Post by franklin on Jan 11, 2024 20:20:13 GMT
Absolutely he's shown a complete lack of interest in finding the "truth" but a propensity to railroad as many convictions as possible with the lane of least resistance and in as shorter time as possible. That's not an investigation but a set up and it couldn't be clearer. It's heartbreaking to see and hear those innocent people on interview completely petrified at the accusations and despite a doubt their insistence of their guilt made by the interviewing officers. "Read the attached statement made by ex Post Office investigator Stephen Bradshaw for why the Post Office should insist a 47 year old mother and sub postmaster, Jacqueline Macdonald, should be found guilty of theft and not just false accounting. It is shocking. He says that if she was done only for false accounting, the integrity of the precious Fujitsu Horizon system would be undermined in future cases, and the appeals of wrongly convicted sub postmasters would have credibility. Bradshaw had his way. The judge in the trial agreed with him. This woman of no previous convictions was sentenced to 18 months in prison, for theft and false accounting." Obviously I don't know the whole story but in the snippet I've heard and seen and the fact that the Met with all their faults are investigating the criminal side of the PO I would sincerely hope all those found to have been complicit in this outrageous conspiracy end up where they belong in jail.
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Post by fullmetaljacket on Jan 11, 2024 20:22:47 GMT
A more obvious example of a bully and a liar it would be difficult to find. He acted more like a debt collector working for a dodgy loan company than the position he held. Those grilling him showed what a thick and arrogant bastard he really is. But how I feel now goes much deeper than that piece of trash. It's taken a TV drama to show practically every single MP of all persuasions up for what they are... self-serving scummers who didn't give a toss for the injustices happening until they were shamed into righting the most obvious of wrongs. I despise them all. OS. Indeed. Luckily it's an election year so the govt is acting.. finally.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 11, 2024 20:30:13 GMT
A more obvious example of a bully and a liar it would be difficult to find. He acted more like a debt collector working for a dodgy loan company than the position he held. Those grilling him showed what a thick and arrogant bastard he really is. But how I feel now goes much deeper than that piece of trash. It's taken a TV drama to show practically every single MP of all persuasions up for what they are... self-serving scummers who didn't give a toss for the injustices happening until they were shamed into righting the most obvious of wrongs. I despise them all. OS. Not just because of this For me, Old,politics, politicians and the whole political system is not fit for purpose. I actually think we are in crisis....stumbling from one issue to the next, but numbed to it, because it has been constant and we can't see there being a solution. The Oatcake may not be representative but it is clear ( I think) that no one is generally satisfied with anything political, no party has any real support and nothing is going to change at the next election. And I'm an optimist by nature. We must be able to do better.
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Post by salopstick on Jan 11, 2024 20:52:25 GMT
True story that happened to me, in essence all correct but I may have got the timings slightly wrong. On a Friday or Saturday, when I was about 15 I bought either a radio or cassette player ( can't remember now) from an electrical shop in Town Road , Hanley, on the other side of the block that contained Webberley's book shop. It didn't work properly. I Went back on the Monday. The name on the front of the shop had changed. I went in. The shop was laid out exactly the same and the people were the same. They explained to me that that business had closed down and this was now a new business and they were very sorry there was nothing they could do. What made it worse was they were really, really nice , sympathetic and understanding. That was convenient for them. I''d have gone back later and put their windows through! Same thing happened to me only it was a garage. A blown engine and £10k. Cunts went bust and started again to avoid the courts These cunts www.gtcustomvehicles.co.uk/used-vans
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 11, 2024 21:25:12 GMT
Another thing that annoys me, not central or totally significant, given the destruction of the lives of good people, is
Bonuses
Why do " we" accept that those people who have very well paid responsible jobs need bonuses to do the job they are paid to do?
I know about targets, performance indicators etc etc but , to me, that's just another mechanism for rewarding the rich. Should a school cleaner get an extra £ 250 per week if he or she turns up every day and keeps the school clean, after all that is his / her target, performance indicator. The Amazon delivery driver? The teacher, nurse, police officer?.....bonuses for turning up and doing their jobs? I can understand the private sector asking how they had supposed to get bonuses.....in fact their incentive is more simple.....if you don't do the work, you don't get paid. I think Vennells walked away with £2m bonus....ridiculous in my opinion, even if it was above board. And the argument that bonuses are needed to attract the best is nonsense, that could apply to any job.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 11, 2024 21:30:48 GMT
That was convenient for them. I''d have gone back later and put their windows through! Same thing happened to me only it was a garage. A blown engine and £10k. Cunts went bust and started again to avoid the courts These cunts www.gtcustomvehicles.co.uk/used-vansWhat is unjust is that the garage and shop in my case are acting within the law. I know of a case when a friend of mine , with his own business, was about to buy a large amount of ( cycle) components. He had the nod that the person who was going to take the cash from him was going to enter bankruptcy in the next few days. So hewas going to take the cash knowing he wasn't goingtosupplythe goods. The law often doesn't help the little people.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jan 12, 2024 7:18:38 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jan 12, 2024 7:19:08 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jan 12, 2024 7:20:31 GMT
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Post by felonious on Jan 12, 2024 7:24:36 GMT
Have you ever wondered how the firm that made the Horizon software system got so much business from the government in the years to 2010 and the period to 2015?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jan 12, 2024 7:30:49 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jan 12, 2024 7:31:43 GMT
Have you ever wondered how the firm that made the Horizon software system got so much business from the government in the years to 2010 and the period to 2015? What's your point mate?
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Post by felonious on Jan 12, 2024 7:50:29 GMT
Have you ever wondered how the firm that made the Horizon software system got so much business from the government in the years to 2010 and the period to 2015? What's your point mate? My point is this goes far deeper than Fuck the Tories
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jan 12, 2024 8:48:08 GMT
My point is this goes far deeper than Fuck the Tories Oh right, pity you couldn't have just said that.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jan 12, 2024 8:51:22 GMT
Another thing that annoys me, not central or totally significant, given the destruction of the lives of good people, is Bonuses Why do " we" accept that those people who have very well paid responsible jobs need bonuses to do the job they are paid to do? I know about targets, performance indicators etc etc but , to me, that's just another mechanism for rewarding the rich. Should a school cleaner get an extra £ 250 per week if he or she turns up every day and keeps the school clean, after all that is his / her target, performance indicator. The Amazon delivery driver? The teacher, nurse, police officer?.....bonuses for turning up and doing their jobs? I can understand the private sector asking how they had supposed to get bonuses.....in fact their incentive is more simple.....if you don't do the work, you don't get paid. I think Vennells walked away with £2m bonus....ridiculous in my opinion, even if it was above board. And the argument that bonuses are needed to attract the best is nonsense, that could apply to any job. This is really one of my pet hates. Having spent all my working life in public service, 34 years in RN and 14 years in post 16 teaching, I never even considered I should get a bonus and there was never any mechanism to do so. And why should I? One of my son in laws is a quantity surveyor(the family brick counter) and last year he had a £20k bonus, this is on top of his £100k+ salary. He knows my thoughts on it and he’s says I’m just jealous. No I’m not jealous, just incredulous that such a well paid job needs to attract obscene bonuses.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jan 12, 2024 8:54:02 GMT
My point is this goes far deeper than Fuck the Tories Care to elaborate?
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