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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2019 12:11:28 GMT
Well go read the articles because that’s bollicks and it’s exactly what they say. Funny that you mention matey with terrorists and murderers perhaps you could suggest that the Tories stop selling arms to Saudia Arabia who are known to fund ISIS and waging war on Yemen. Maybe have a word and mention that if they really needed to send British extremists out to fight in Libya it probably wasn’t the best idea to then let them back so they could blow up kids in Manchester? www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/manchester-bomber-salman-abedi-concert-british-government-libya-isis-a8369506.html%3famp“But no sooner had Britain joined the war against Gaddafi than these suspected terrorists became useful allies. Their control-orders were lifted, their passports returned and they were told that the British government had no problem with them going to Libya to fight against Gaddafi. In place of past restrictions, they were allowed to pass to and fro at British airports” No confirmed terrorist or terrorist sympathiser should ever be let back into our country when they leave it simple as, we have an enemy within many born in the UK, most are known to our authorities maybe we need to keep them altogether so that we can monitor them safely, letting them roam freely around is it working the UK suffers from more terrorist threats than any other country in the UK I wonder why that is. Well the thing is Crapslinger, the Conservatives removed their passport controls so they could go and let them back in so perhaps if they had not continually practically supported terrorists to further their own foreign policy aims we wouldn’t be in such a bloody mess.
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Post by crapslinger on Nov 30, 2019 12:13:12 GMT
No confirmed terrorist or terrorist sympathiser should ever be let back into our country when they leave it simple as, we have an enemy within many born in the UK, most are known to our authorities maybe we need to keep them altogether so that we can monitor them safely, letting them roam freely around is it working the UK suffers from more terrorist threats than any other country in the UK I wonder why that is. Well the thing is Crapslinger, the Conservatives removed their passport controls so they could go and let them back in so perhaps if they had not continually practically supported terrorists to further their own foreign policy aims we wouldn’t be in such a bloody mess. Iraq the birth of ISIS was that down to the Tories ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2019 12:17:08 GMT
Well the thing is Crapslinger, the Conservatives removed their passport controls so they could go and let them back in so perhaps if they had not continually practically supported terrorists to further their own foreign policy aims we wouldn’t be in such a bloody mess. Iraq the birth of ISIS was that down to the Tories ? No but there was a man who told us all it was a terrible idea, campaigned whole heartedly against it and warned us what would happen but apparently he’s a fruit loop... The same man is also against us continuing to sell arms to Saudi Arabia because they are known to end up in the wrong hands. But hey ho, profits and all that.
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Post by franklin66 on Nov 30, 2019 12:18:19 GMT
As an aside while I was in the Police I did not do firearms training but did train to be alongside someone who was firearms trained. I don't know the situation now but, as with dog handlers, they always had to have a " buddy" because their hands, obviously, were tied up with the weapon/dog. It was made clear that to draw and use a firearm was very much an individual decision which they would have to fully justify ( they may also have to justify why they did not use a weapon when circumstances said that they should have)....the decision has obviously got to be made in extreme life threatening circumstances and has often to be taken literally n a split second taking into account the circumstances and their training. What I don't understand is this reference to " shoot to kill" because the officers said to me that they only time that they could/should draw a weapon is if they intend to kill a person ( in a high tense situation).....( lengthy, stand off )warnings, aiming for a part of the body that may only inflict a wound were, I was told, only for TV dramas..... one particular well respected colleague said that it was enough just to hit the target, which he said was the centre of the body. So I don't really get " shoot to kill"....perhaps someone who knows more about it and firearms than me could enlighten me. In the early 1980's I think people would have been surprised at how many police were actually on patrol in Staffordshire who were armed, but obviously rarely if ever used...I can recall clearly an incident in Waterloo road and others where several were deployed but of course it did not reach the media BJR when I left in 2017 there were 8 on duty in the county, the policy changed after 7/7 with the Met introduction of Opp Kratos it is now a public policy now replaced with an updated one. Nobody in any policy stated shoot to kill it's not nice and people object as you know they use words like neutralise and subdue the threat and resolution. I worked with the lead Met firearms trainer who's a local lad btw now retired and he is a smashing bloke. Unfortunately being an AFO is not seen as a desirable job because God forbid you fire a weapon. The use of taser is scrutinised by all sorts like Amnesty international so conventional weapons scare most bobbies. There are numerous pieces of legislation that protect them but it needs strengthening, stuff like the Criminal Justice and Immigration act offer an extra bit of cover but it's not enough.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 30, 2019 12:22:11 GMT
You'd have to be a fucking idiot to believe some of the shit about this posted by the twittertards. Obviously a lot of that 'sort' get on this messageboard.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2019 12:29:34 GMT
You'd have to be a fucking idiot to believe some of the shit about this posted by the twittertards. Obviously a lot of that 'sort' get on this messageboard. I can’t really blame them completely. The BBC deliberately edited the video to say something it didn’t say and then the newspapers jumped all over. The apology and the admission of the BBC of what they did and true account of the interview was surprisingly not as widely covered. Sigh. Most people simply don’t have the time to go trawling through the internet to find out what was really said. It’s almost like they know this and do it on purpose or something...
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Post by franklin66 on Nov 30, 2019 12:29:45 GMT
That's what the training recommends which is why the torso shots were strange, from that range even a low velocity round would have taken the back of his head off, never mind it did the job thankfully, I would prefer the use of dumdum bullets for a torso shot instantly incapacitates the target perfect for a terrorist take down I don’t think the police are allowed to use fragmenting bullets as once shot, a persons chances of survival are reduced with these types of bullets. Primarily the aim of police firearms is to stop someone, not kill them. So the average Joe who could get shot say at a bank robbery will face normal full metal jacket rounds and even though the police could then face a terrorist, they wouldn’t be able to swap over to a more lethal round like a fragmenting one. I’m sure there will be varying opinions on the merits of this. There are and they do specific ammo for such incidents Kratos is a fascinating document. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Kratos
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Post by serpico on Nov 30, 2019 12:34:08 GMT
Iraq the birth of ISIS was that down to the Tories ? No but there was a man who told us all it was a terrible idea, campaigned whole heartedly against it and warned us what would happen but apparently he’s a fruit loop... The same man is also against us continuing to sell arms to Saudi Arabia because they are known to end up in the wrong hands. But hey ho, profits and all that. I’ve never been one who’s criticised corbyns foreign policy ideas, i think he goes too far with supporting Hamas, I don’t think we should take any side in that dispute, just stay out of it, it does us no good. I also don’t think we should unilaterally give up our nuclear weapons but essentially I probably agree with Corbyn on foreign policy more than I do with Johnson, who has supported all the interventions of the past 20 years as far as I can tell.
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Post by Dresden_scfc on Nov 30, 2019 12:35:38 GMT
It will be interesting to know where in Staffordshire he was living/from From Tunstall now in Stafford after release. The cunts dead now 😂
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Post by serpico on Nov 30, 2019 12:36:29 GMT
Iraq the birth of ISIS was that down to the Tories ? No but there was a man who told us all it was a terrible idea, campaigned whole heartedly against it and warned us what would happen but apparently he’s a fruit loop... The same man is also against us continuing to sell arms to Saudi Arabia because they are known to end up in the wrong hands. But hey ho, profits and all that. ... Oh wait, were you talking about Farage ? 😄
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 30, 2019 12:40:23 GMT
As an aside while I was in the Police I did not do firearms training but did train to be alongside someone who was firearms trained. I don't know the situation now but, as with dog handlers, they always had to have a " buddy" because their hands, obviously, were tied up with the weapon/dog. It was made clear that to draw and use a firearm was very much an individual decision which they would have to fully justify ( they may also have to justify why they did not use a weapon when circumstances said that they should have)....the decision has obviously got to be made in extreme life threatening circumstances and has often to be taken literally n a split second taking into account the circumstances and their training. What I don't understand is this reference to " shoot to kill" because the officers said to me that they only time that they could/should draw a weapon is if they intend to kill a person ( in a high tense situation).....( lengthy, stand off )warnings, aiming for a part of the body that may only inflict a wound were, I was told, only for TV dramas..... one particular well respected colleague said that it was enough just to hit the target, which he said was the centre of the body. So I don't really get " shoot to kill"....perhaps someone who knows more about it and firearms than me could enlighten me. In the early 1980's I think people would have been surprised at how many police were actually on patrol in Staffordshire who were armed, but obviously rarely if ever used...I can recall clearly an incident in Waterloo road and others where several were deployed but of course it did not reach the media BJR when I left in 2017 there were 8 on duty in the county, the policy changed after 7/7 with the Met introduction of Opp Kratos it is now a public policy now replaced with an updated one. Nobody in any policy stated shoot to kill it's not nice and people object as you know they use words like neutralise and subdue the threat and resolution. I worked with the lead Met firearms trainer who's a local lad btw now retired and he is a smashing bloke. Unfortunately being an AFO is not seen as a desirable job because God forbid you fire a weapon. The use of taser is scrutinised by all sorts like Amnesty international so conventional weapons scare most bobbies. There are numerous pieces of legislation that protect them but it needs strengthening, stuff like the Criminal Justice and Immigration act offer an extra bit of cover but it's not enough. I didn't want to get into the figures because what I was told sounded ridiculous to me.... " I was told " anything up to 20" and that's in Staffordshire, sounds exaggerated to me .....but in actuality I have no idea. I do know that when I was involved in Hanley people were going about their everyday business without a clue that they were yards away from Police carrying firearms. I've said for a while on here that the language that we use is extremely important in the propaganda and political discourses........( "Hard and soft Brexit have been well discussed).... it took me a while to understand what was meant by collateral damage sounds much better than.... unfortunate but necessary accidental but predictable civilian deaths. I can remember having a briefing before a duty at the Toxteth riots.....a Commander said " Under no circumstances do you go into this area( indicating some roads within a triangle of streets in Toxteth). This is a no-go area. Only Merseyside police will go in en mass". The very same man was on the 6 O'clock news saying " There are no no-go areas in Toxteth"
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2019 12:40:29 GMT
No but there was a man who told us all it was a terrible idea, campaigned whole heartedly against it and warned us what would happen but apparently he’s a fruit loop... The same man is also against us continuing to sell arms to Saudi Arabia because they are known to end up in the wrong hands. But hey ho, profits and all that. ... Oh wait, were you talking about Farage ? 😄 No but it’s a fair point.
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Post by crapslinger on Nov 30, 2019 12:47:47 GMT
Iraq the birth of ISIS was that down to the Tories ? No but there was a man who told us all it was a terrible idea, campaigned whole heartedly against it and warned us what would happen but apparently he’s a fruit loop... The same man is also against us continuing to sell arms to Saudi Arabia because they are known to end up in the wrong hands. But hey ho, profits and all that. Which party was responsible for taking us into an illegal war killing many thousands of Muslims leading to the inception of ISIS ?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 30, 2019 12:56:45 GMT
Will we be talking about this man in two or three years time? "Why did he get such a short sentence?" "why was he released early?" " Why did he kill my daughter?" Prosecutor Denise Breen-Lawton said he sent his sibling an English transcript of a "call to arms" from former Islamic State (IS) leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who died last month, in which the extremist said: "Terrify the enemies of Allah and seek death in the places you expect to find it." www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-50608577
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2019 13:09:18 GMT
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Post by franklin66 on Nov 30, 2019 13:19:13 GMT
BJR when I left in 2017 there were 8 on duty in the county, the policy changed after 7/7 with the Met introduction of Opp Kratos it is now a public policy now replaced with an updated one. Nobody in any policy stated shoot to kill it's not nice and people object as you know they use words like neutralise and subdue the threat and resolution. I worked with the lead Met firearms trainer who's a local lad btw now retired and he is a smashing bloke. Unfortunately being an AFO is not seen as a desirable job because God forbid you fire a weapon. The use of taser is scrutinised by all sorts like Amnesty international so conventional weapons scare most bobbies. There are numerous pieces of legislation that protect them but it needs strengthening, stuff like the Criminal Justice and Immigration act offer an extra bit of cover but it's not enough. I didn't want to get into the figures because what I was told sounded ridiculous to me.... " I was told " anything up to 20" and that's in Staffordshire, sounds exaggerated to me .....but in actuality I have no idea. I do know that when I was involved in Hanley people were going about their everyday business without a clue that they were yards away from Police carrying firearms. I've said for a while on here that the language that we use is extremely important in the propaganda and political discourses........( "Hard and soft Brexit have been well discussed).... it took me a while to understand what was meant by collateral damage sounds much better than.... unfortunate but necessary accidental but predictable civilian deaths. I can remember having a briefing before a duty at the Toxteth riots.....a Commander said " Under no circumstances do you go into this area( indicating some roads within a triangle of streets in Toxteth). This is a no-go area. Only Merseyside police will go in en mass". The very same man was on the 6 O'clock news saying " There are no no-go areas in Toxteth" Staffs lost 600 officers in my last 5 years from 2100 to about 1500 of which only 1000 are in uniform of which 200 are Sgts and above and were in the office more often than not. So that leaves 800 over 5 shifts minus holidays, sickness, courses, court and dealing with prisoners leaving maybe 60 on duty on any shift at any one time in the county. When I first started there were about 6 on my shift but it was a small area then it changed and we were amalgamated into larger shifts covering larger areas and it went up to about 20 when I left it was down to 11 covering the same area. More cars than cops now it's the other way around cop cars dont move because there is nobody to drive them. There are definitely no go areas I Staffs and some areas never patrolled day or night.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 30, 2019 13:26:06 GMT
I don't particularly like Yvette Cooper in that she strikes me as a typical career politician who always thinks that she . above all else. knows best......But in this tweet / s she asks all the right questions......unfortunately If Labour were in power I'm not sure that the situation in respect of terrorism would be any better......it is easy to ask the questions if you are not in power.
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Post by mattyd on Nov 30, 2019 13:26:16 GMT
What was with the lorry that appeared to cross the central reservation...Had he driven it there.
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Post by mattador78 on Nov 30, 2019 13:48:12 GMT
What was with the lorry that appeared to cross the central reservation...Had he driven it there. Think he just pulled over and either joined in or legged it?
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 30, 2019 14:30:10 GMT
This has the makings of a conspiracy theory. Bloke from Stoke let out on licence, attending some rehabilitation seminar. Ex murder attacks Bloke from Stoke(probably also attending seminar). Plain clothes copper walks off with the murder weapon, then fetches somat out his pocket & ditches it...
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Post by mattador78 on Nov 30, 2019 14:36:11 GMT
This has the makings of a conspiracy theory. Bloke from Stoke let out on licence, attending some rehabilitation seminar. Ex murder attacks Bloke from Stoke(probably also attending seminar). Plain clothes copper walks off with the murder weapon, then fetches somat out his pocket & ditches it... Your right there somebody will make it a conspiracy theory
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2019 16:13:36 GMT
Pretty sure if they could have subdued him and arrested him they would have, UK police aren’t known for being trigger happy, but You’ve got a maniac running around randomly stabbing people with what looks like a suicide vest on, he’s on the floor probably threatening to detonate it, I don’t see what option they had ? Have you ever heard of Jean Charles da Silva e de Menezes...🇧🇷 I've not read the whole thread.. Are you seriously suggesting that those police officers yesterday were out of order?
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Post by crapslinger on Nov 30, 2019 16:26:45 GMT
Have you ever heard of Jean Charles da Silva e de Menezes...🇧🇷 I've not read the whole thread.. Are you seriously suggesting that those police officers yesterday were out of order? He's a disgrace.
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 30, 2019 16:27:11 GMT
Have you ever heard of Jean Charles da Silva e de Menezes...🇧🇷 I've not read the whole thread.. Are you seriously suggesting that those police officers yesterday were out of order? I’m sure that they have a V rigorous policy of what to do under those circumstances, but don’t you think that he would have detonated a bomb whilst being attacked if he had one. It doesn’t matter to me whether he’s dead or alive. Coppers are just people.
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 30, 2019 16:29:09 GMT
I've not read the whole thread.. Are you seriously suggesting that those police officers yesterday were out of order? He's a disgrace. Coming from you, I consider that an honour👏🏻
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Post by musik on Nov 30, 2019 16:35:05 GMT
Have you ever heard of Jean Charles da Silva e de Menezes...🇧🇷 I have now. Read some about it. I understand it he was innocent?! Do you think the stabber was innocent as well?
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 30, 2019 16:41:05 GMT
Have you ever heard of Jean Charles da Silva e de Menezes...🇧🇷 I have now. Read some about it. I understand it he was innocent?! Do you think the stabber was innocent as well? What!?! Has the EE succumbed to collective hysteria.
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Post by musik on Nov 30, 2019 16:43:30 GMT
I have now. Read some about it. I understand it he was innocent?! Do you think the stabber was innocent as well? What!?! Has the EE succumbed to collective hysteria. The Menezes reference is irrelevant. I heard on the radio the police in the UK have their rules to follow, meaning to shoot a person with a bomb vest. In Sweden the rules are a bit different.
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 30, 2019 16:46:28 GMT
What!?! Has the EE succumbed to collective hysteria. The Menezes reference is irrelevant. I heard on the radio the police in the UK have their rules to follow, meaning to shoot a person with a bomb vest. In Sweden the rules are a bit different. I said something similar just a few posts above about police policy
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Post by crapslinger on Nov 30, 2019 16:47:06 GMT
What!?! Has the EE succumbed to collective hysteria. The Menezes reference is irrelevant. I heard on the radio the police in the UK have their rules to follow, meaning to shoot a person with a bomb vest. In Sweden the rules are a bit different. Bath is also irrelevant.
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