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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 17, 2020 9:35:38 GMT
All of this FFP stuff actually could be a blessing for us.
The club are going to have to work hard to make transfers work. They're going to have be absolutely spot on with them.
We've been lazy for transfers for some time now, throwing money and little thought at them.
That has to change. It was always going to have to change once we were relegated hence why the Coates' doing absolutely nothing different for these last 18 months is testament to how badly they've handled all of this. Hopefully this is the kick up the arse they need.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 9:39:51 GMT
All of this FFP stuff actually could be a blessing for us. The club are going to have to work hard to make transfers work. They're going to have be absolutely spot on with them. We've been lazy for transfers for some time now, throwing money and little thought at them. That has to change. It was always going to have to change once we were relegated hence why the Coates' doing absolutely nothing different for these last 18 months is testament to how badly they've handled all of this. Hopefully this is the kick up the arse they need. I completely agree, and MON is making all the right noises about integrating youngsters into the team as well. We just need to avoid relegation first, that's the bottom line....
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jan 17, 2020 9:52:56 GMT
It is the ridiculous amounts paid (when we were in the Prem) for players who a) were not worth anything close to what we paid for them and b) who were on high wages, combined with long contracts, which made them virtually unsaleable when we got relegated, which started our demise. There should be no need for huge NET spending when a team gets relegated from the Prem. ALL players should either see their wages reduced dramatically because of relegation with the rest being sold for good money or released at the end of their contracts. The money raised by such sales and the wages freed up SHOULD mean that purchases of players to build a promotion push can be funded without hardly any NET spend. This simply didn't happen at Stoke. The only decent player sold was Shaqiri - and he was sold for a fraction of his true value because of the bizarre relegation clause in his contract which prevented us making a profit. The other players who were (at the time) saleable for good money were Allen and Butland - and for reasons best known to ourselves - we priced them too high, without considering the effect this would have on our profitability. The inability to sell Imbula, Berahino and others (who had to be loaned out or paid to do very little) completed the fisaco not forgetting the bizarre decision to offer Bauer an extended contract when it was not clear that our manager would even want to play him. I don't lay all the blame directly at the door of Peter Coates. Scholes as Chief Exec has to take the major share of the blame - although Peter Coates and the rest of the board are guilty of not terminating Scholes' contract. I don't think the board actually realised the depth of the doo doo that we were in. They knew mistakes had been made but they never realised just how big those mistakes were - and thus those mistakes were compounded by the buying spree (on the wrong type and quality of player) of the first summer after relegation. EDIT: MON does seem to be aware of the actions needed to put right the mistakes of recent years. His background and understanding of finance is probably just as important as his managerial ability at present.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jan 17, 2020 10:02:14 GMT
It is the ridiculous amounts paid (when we were in the Prem) for players who a) were not worth anything close to what we paid for them and b) who were on high wages, combined with long contracts, which made them virtually unsaleable when we got relegated, which started our demise. There should be no need for huge NET spending when a team gets relegated from the Prem. ALL players should either see their wages reduced dramatically because of relegation with the rest being sold for good money or released at the end of their contracts. The money raised by such sales and the wages freed up SHOULD mean that purchases of players to build a promotion push can be funded without hardly any NET spend. This simply didn't happen at Stoke. The only decent player sold was Shaqiri - and he was sold for a fraction of his true value because of the bizarre relegation clause in his contract which prevented us making a profit. The other players who were (at the time) saleable for good money were Allen and Butland - and for reasons best known to ourselves - we priced them too high, without considering the effect this would have on our profitability. The inability to sell Imbula, Berahino and others (who had to be loaned out or paid to do very little) completed the fisaco not forgetting the bizarre decision to offer Bauer an extended contract when it was not clear that our manager would even want to play him. I don't lay all the blame directly at the door of Peter Coates. Scholes as Chief Exec has to take the major share of the blame - although Peter Coates and the rest of the board are guilty of not terminating Scholes' contract. I don't think the board actually realised the depth of the doo doo that we were in. They knew mistakes had been made but they never realised just how big those mistakes were - and thus those mistakes were compounded by the buying spree (on the wrong type and quality of player) of the first summer after relegation. A good summary this. If only Stoke had directed some of the money spent on getting proper talent in the boardroom in the form of a top quality Director of football then we would probably be on a much better course right now. Its a bit like being a race car team and blowing your whole budget on getting the worlds best race car and then getting your nan to drive the bloody thing. No joined up thinking and the board have only themselves to blame.
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Post by franklin66 on Jan 17, 2020 10:11:19 GMT
Bizarrely they work out how much you can earn in sponsorship!!!! Based on size, crowds etc it's all to keep the small clubs down where they belong. It was initially introduced to help clubs going out of business through shitty directorship.But it does also hinder clubs like ourselves who have a multi millionaire owner. Oh i know and if your in the premier league it's a blessing however once you get relegated it becomes virtually impossible to work around it unless like WBA you bounce back up. Long term as we're finding out it stops our owners from spending regardless of how much they want to spend their money. FFP would have stopped Blackburn from spending so their history would never happen nowadays.
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Jan 17, 2020 10:21:57 GMT
Post by Eggybread on Jan 17, 2020 10:21:57 GMT
It was initially introduced to help clubs going out of business through shitty directorship.But it does also hinder clubs like ourselves who have a multi millionaire owner. Oh i know and if your in the premier league it's a blessing however once you get relegated it becomes virtually impossible to work around it unless like WBA you bounce back up. Long term as we're finding out it stops our owners from spending regardless of how much they want to spend their money. FFP would have stopped Blackburn from spending so their history would never happen nowadays. Shef Utd prove it can still be done I suppose.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Jan 17, 2020 10:25:33 GMT
It was initially introduced to help clubs going out of business through shitty directorship.But it does also hinder clubs like ourselves who have a multi millionaire owner. Oh i know and if your in the premier league it's a blessing however once you get relegated it becomes virtually impossible to work around it unless like WBA you bounce back up. Long term as we're finding out it stops our owners from spending regardless of how much they want to spend their money. FFP would have stopped Blackburn from spending so their history would never happen nowadays. I'm not convinced they want to anymore, I think we had one last throw of the dice on relegation and are happy plodding on until all the earners are gone at the very least. Their own incompetence has hit the pockets hard. At some point even the dumbest people will stop ploughing hard cash into a faulty operation, we have proven we are clueless at operating a football club and unless that changes we would be certain to have history repeat itself, imo
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Jan 17, 2020 10:29:12 GMT
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Post by franklin66 on Jan 17, 2020 10:29:12 GMT
Oh i know and if your in the premier league it's a blessing however once you get relegated it becomes virtually impossible to work around it unless like WBA you bounce back up. Long term as we're finding out it stops our owners from spending regardless of how much they want to spend their money. FFP would have stopped Blackburn from spending so their history would never happen nowadays. Shef Utd prove it can still be done I suppose. They can but can they really challenge and what happens when they come down unless you go straight back up your chances diminish at a rate of knots.
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Jan 17, 2020 10:33:02 GMT
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Post by franklin66 on Jan 17, 2020 10:33:02 GMT
Oh i know and if your in the premier league it's a blessing however once you get relegated it becomes virtually impossible to work around it unless like WBA you bounce back up. Long term as we're finding out it stops our owners from spending regardless of how much they want to spend their money. FFP would have stopped Blackburn from spending so their history would never happen nowadays. I'm not convinced they want to anymore, I think we had one last throw of the dice on relegation and are happy plodding on until all the earners are gone at the very least. Their own incompetence has hit the pockets hard. At some point even the dumbest people will stop ploughing hard cash into a faulty operation That might be right but just let's think PC wants to spend whatever it takes to get back he cant spend his own money!! Sir Jack Haywood and Jack Walker could not do their thing now if they were still with us.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Jan 17, 2020 10:47:51 GMT
I'm not convinced they want to anymore, I think we had one last throw of the dice on relegation and are happy plodding on until all the earners are gone at the very least. Their own incompetence has hit the pockets hard. At some point even the dumbest people will stop ploughing hard cash into a faulty operation That might be right but just let's think PC wants to spend whatever it takes to get back he cant spend his own money!! Sir Jack Haywood and Jack Walker could not do their thing now if they were still with us. How I see it now is well we keep sending an increasing number of these 'mistakes' on loan the incomings are going to keep decreasing in terms of supposed 'pedigree' until we reach a point where the actual playing squad is made up of lower end champ players and league 1 players, transition complete. When the misfits do eventually move on for zero we are in a position of having a full squad of lesser players with no sales to fund a serious promotion push. Let's not forget by then that several other clubs have been relegated from the top flight and we will be the 'also rans' in the market. Unless by some minor miracle we do a sheff utd on a shoestring I don't see how we get back up sharpish from here, the only person I have a bit of faith in is the manager, none of the rest have a scooby imo
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jan 17, 2020 10:54:05 GMT
That might be right but just let's think PC wants to spend whatever it takes to get back he cant spend his own money!! Sir Jack Haywood and Jack Walker could not do their thing now if they were still with us. How I see it now is well we keep sending an increasing number of these 'mistakes' on loan the incomings are going to keep decreasing in terms of supposed 'pedigree' until we reach a point where the actual playing squad is made up of lower end champ players and league 1 players, transition complete. When the misfits do eventually move on for zero we are in a position of having a full squad of lesser players with no sales to fund a serious promotion push. Let's not forget by then that several other clubs have been relegated from the top flight and we will be the 'also rans' in the market. Unless by some minor miracle we do a sheff utd on a shoestring I don't see how we get back up sharpish from here, the only person I have a bit of faith in is the manager, none of the rest have a scooby imo Just highlights how we really have not had any form of sustainable plan for at least 5 years. Some of the money we have spunked on players should have been spent in the boardroom. But oh no we had scholes and Carto. Absolutely shambolic and they only have themselves to blame.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Jan 17, 2020 10:58:16 GMT
How I see it now is well we keep sending an increasing number of these 'mistakes' on loan the incomings are going to keep decreasing in terms of supposed 'pedigree' until we reach a point where the actual playing squad is made up of lower end champ players and league 1 players, transition complete. When the misfits do eventually move on for zero we are in a position of having a full squad of lesser players with no sales to fund a serious promotion push. Let's not forget by then that several other clubs have been relegated from the top flight and we will be the 'also rans' in the market. Unless by some minor miracle we do a sheff utd on a shoestring I don't see how we get back up sharpish from here, the only person I have a bit of faith in is the manager, none of the rest have a scooby imo Just highlights how we really have not had any form of sustainable plan for at least 5 years. Some of the money we have spunked on players should have been spent in the boardroom. But oh no we had scholes and Carto. Absolutely shambolic and they only have themselves to blame. Absolutely, premiership aspirations with a league 1 off the field structure. Propping mountains up with matchsticks
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Jan 17, 2020 10:58:38 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jan 17, 2020 10:58:38 GMT
All of this FFP stuff actually could be a blessing for us. The club are going to have to work hard to make transfers work. They're going to have be absolutely spot on with them. We've been lazy for transfers for some time now, throwing money and little thought at them. That has to change. It was always going to have to change once we were relegated hence why the Coates' doing absolutely nothing different for these last 18 months is testament to how badly they've handled all of this. Hopefully this is the kick up the arse they need. Very good point. Such a shame that we gave the big money to the wrong people.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jan 17, 2020 11:02:35 GMT
It was initially introduced to help clubs going out of business through shitty directorship.But it does also hinder clubs like ourselves who have a multi millionaire owner. Oh i know and if your in the premier league it's a blessing however once you get relegated it becomes virtually impossible to work around it unless like WBA you bounce back up. Long term as we're finding out it stops our owners from spending regardless of how much they want to spend their money. FFP would have stopped Blackburn from spending so their history would never happen nowadays. I don't actually agree with the statement I have underlined. If a club runs itself properly during its time in the Prem then relegation should not be overly difficult to cope with. See my post above this one - basically it was the numbers of players who were bought in our later years in the Prem who were worth well below what we paid for them and on wages which meant that they became virtually unsaleable. That meant that there was no chance that we could avoid FFP problems after relegation. Several clubs in recent years have not hit huge problems after relegation from the Prem and many of them have bounced back fairly quickly. At one time I would have put money on us being able to do the same - but the serial problems of overpaying for moderate players (and putting those moderate players on long & expensive contracts)at the tail end of Hughes' reign scuppered any chance of an easy time (as regards FFP) in the first few years of the Championship for as long as those long and expensive contracts remain in force.
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Jan 17, 2020 11:54:58 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 17, 2020 11:54:58 GMT
If we cant get our house in order now with all the scrimping and saving we're doing and end up breaching then Scholes truly does deserve the sack. As an accountant if he cant get this right then he truly does deserve to go. I would partially agree with you he should be presenting the forecasts and information to the board on likely financial results for the year but he can not control which players of ours other clubs want and what they are prepared to pay.
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Post by pottersrule on Jan 17, 2020 12:20:13 GMT
Oh i know and if your in the premier league it's a blessing however once you get relegated it becomes virtually impossible to work around it unless like WBA you bounce back up. Long term as we're finding out it stops our owners from spending regardless of how much they want to spend their money. FFP would have stopped Blackburn from spending so their history would never happen nowadays. I don't actually agree with the statement I have underlined. If a club runs itself properly during its time in the Prem then relegation should not be overly difficult to cope with. See my post just above this one - basically it was the numbers of players who were bought in our later years in the Prem who were worth well below what we paid for them and on wages which meant that they became virtually unsaleable. That meant that there was no chance that we could avoid FFP problems after relegation. Several clubs in recent years have not hit huge problems after relegation from the Prem and many of them have bounced back fairly quickly. At one time I would have put money on us being able to do the same - but the serial problems of overpaying for moderate players (and putting those moderate players on long & expensive contracts)at the tail end of Hughes' reign scuppered any chance of an easy time (as regards FFP) in the first few years of the Championship for as long as those long and expensive contracts remain in force. Many including myself said before relegation "The deadwood will kill us" If many on our forum could forsee this how the hell did the professionals at the helm not.
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Jan 17, 2020 12:27:58 GMT
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Post by franklin66 on Jan 17, 2020 12:27:58 GMT
Oh i know and if your in the premier league it's a blessing however once you get relegated it becomes virtually impossible to work around it unless like WBA you bounce back up. Long term as we're finding out it stops our owners from spending regardless of how much they want to spend their money. FFP would have stopped Blackburn from spending so their history would never happen nowadays. I don't actually agree with the statement I have underlined. If a club runs itself properly during its time in the Prem then relegation should not be overly difficult to cope with. See my post above this one - basically it was the numbers of players who were bought in our later years in the Prem who were worth well below what we paid for them and on wages which meant that they became virtually unsaleable. That meant that there was no chance that we could avoid FFP problems after relegation. Several clubs in recent years have not hit huge problems after relegation from the Prem and many of them have bounced back fairly quickly. At one time I would have put money on us being able to do the same - but the serial problems of overpaying for moderate players (and putting those moderate players on long & expensive contracts)at the tail end of Hughes' reign scuppered any chance of an easy time (as regards FFP) in the first few years of the Championship for as long as those long and expensive contracts remain in force. My point is two fold top quality players cost a lot and second they demand top wages. Once a club is relegated its impossible to keep them even if they wanted too. Unless they bounce straight back if not you are forced to sell on two fronts, one they want more often than not to go and FFP forces exits. Yes you can blame a club for contracts but its the world we were in no contract no players. Why if stoke can afford to keep the "bigger" "better" players and want to add to the squad are we stopped from doing so because it's not fair on other clubs!! Its a competition and FFP limits that by stopping PC spending his money just because its not fair on those have nots.
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Post by franklin66 on Jan 17, 2020 12:33:12 GMT
That might be right but just let's think PC wants to spend whatever it takes to get back he cant spend his own money!! Sir Jack Haywood and Jack Walker could not do their thing now if they were still with us. How I see it now is well we keep sending an increasing number of these 'mistakes' on loan the incomings are going to keep decreasing in terms of supposed 'pedigree' until we reach a point where the actual playing squad is made up of lower end champ players and league 1 players, transition complete. When the misfits do eventually move on for zero we are in a position of having a full squad of lesser players with no sales to fund a serious promotion push. Let's not forget by then that several other clubs have been relegated from the top flight and we will be the 'also rans' in the market. Unless by some minor miracle we do a sheff utd on a shoestring I don't see how we get back up sharpish from here, the only person I have a bit of faith in is the manager, none of the rest have a scooby imo I get that but the question is if PC wants to spunk his money up the wall that's his decision and let's not kid ourselves we could buy our way up if we were allowed to do so but we aren't. It's a separate argument about how shit the people at the club are this is about a massively rich club unable to do as they wish. Its restriction of trade and its stopping Stoke being a success.
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Jan 17, 2020 12:42:25 GMT
Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jan 17, 2020 12:42:25 GMT
How I see it now is well we keep sending an increasing number of these 'mistakes' on loan the incomings are going to keep decreasing in terms of supposed 'pedigree' until we reach a point where the actual playing squad is made up of lower end champ players and league 1 players, transition complete. When the misfits do eventually move on for zero we are in a position of having a full squad of lesser players with no sales to fund a serious promotion push. Let's not forget by then that several other clubs have been relegated from the top flight and we will be the 'also rans' in the market. Unless by some minor miracle we do a sheff utd on a shoestring I don't see how we get back up sharpish from here, the only person I have a bit of faith in is the manager, none of the rest have a scooby imo I get that but the question is if PC wants to spunk his money up the wall that's his decision and let's not kid ourselves we could buy our way up if we were allowed to do so but we aren't. It's a separate argument about how shit the people at the club are this is about a massively rich club unable to do as they wish. Its restriction of trade and its stopping Stoke being a success. We assembled the most expensive squad in Championship history, we were allowed to spend. We just spent incredibly poorly and finished 16th. It's a fallacy to say after spending them money we did that FFP is stopping us from being a success. The club knew the rules, but cracked on regardless with shocking conceitedness and arrogance on all fronts. Our board, management and approach to transfers are living proof that money is no guarantee of success.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jan 17, 2020 13:10:01 GMT
I don't actually agree with the statement I have underlined. If a club runs itself properly during its time in the Prem then relegation should not be overly difficult to cope with. See my post above this one - basically it was the numbers of players who were bought in our later years in the Prem who were worth well below what we paid for them and on wages which meant that they became virtually unsaleable. That meant that there was no chance that we could avoid FFP problems after relegation. Several clubs in recent years have not hit huge problems after relegation from the Prem and many of them have bounced back fairly quickly. At one time I would have put money on us being able to do the same - but the serial problems of overpaying for moderate players (and putting those moderate players on long & expensive contracts)at the tail end of Hughes' reign scuppered any chance of an easy time (as regards FFP) in the first few years of the Championship for as long as those long and expensive contracts remain in force. My point is two fold top quality players cost a lot and second they demand top wages. Once a club is relegated its impossible to keep them even if they wanted too. Unless they bounce straight back if not you are forced to sell on two fronts, one they want more often than not to go and FFP forces exits. Yes you can blame a club for contracts but its the world we were in no contract no players. Why if stoke can afford to keep the "bigger" "better" players and want to add to the squad are we stopped from doing so because it's not fair on other clubs!! Its a competition and FFP limits that by stopping PC spending his money just because its not fair on those have nots. The parachute payments in the years after relegation from the Prem, mean that relegated clubs such as ourselves have an annual income which is at least double and probably treble or even quadruple, the income of most Championship clubs in the years following relegation. That biases things massively in favour of the relegated clubs PROVIDING THAT THEY HAVE THE FORESIGHT TO ARRANGE THEIR CONTRACTS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE SITUATION. That we didn't use the circumstances to our advantage is down to our own incompetence and not to the rigours of FFP!
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Jan 17, 2020 13:11:24 GMT
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Post by franklin66 on Jan 17, 2020 13:11:24 GMT
I get that but the question is if PC wants to spunk his money up the wall that's his decision and let's not kid ourselves we could buy our way up if we were allowed to do so but we aren't. It's a separate argument about how shit the people at the club are this is about a massively rich club unable to do as they wish. Its restriction of trade and its stopping Stoke being a success. We assembled the most expensive squad in Championship history, we were allowed to spend. We just spent incredibly poorly and finished 16th. It's a fallacy to say after spending them money we did that FFP is stopping us from being a success. The club knew the rules, but cracked on regardless with shocking conceitedness and arrogance on all fronts. Our board, management and approach to transfers are living proof that money is no guarantee of success. We did but now what? You're missing my point it's his money and if he wants to spend 50 million a season that's his parogative. FFP says no so we might as well be owned by the council.
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Jan 17, 2020 13:12:54 GMT
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Post by franklin66 on Jan 17, 2020 13:12:54 GMT
My point is two fold top quality players cost a lot and second they demand top wages. Once a club is relegated its impossible to keep them even if they wanted too. Unless they bounce straight back if not you are forced to sell on two fronts, one they want more often than not to go and FFP forces exits. Yes you can blame a club for contracts but its the world we were in no contract no players. Why if stoke can afford to keep the "bigger" "better" players and want to add to the squad are we stopped from doing so because it's not fair on other clubs!! Its a competition and FFP limits that by stopping PC spending his money just because its not fair on those have nots. The parachute payments in the years after relegation from the Prem, mean that relegated clubs such as ourselves have an annual income which is at least double and probably treble or even quadruple, the income of most Championship clubs in the years following relegation. That biases things massively in favour of the relegated clubs PROVIDING THAT THEY HAVE THE FORESIGHT TO ARRANGE THEIR CONTRACTS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE SITUATION. That we didn't use the circumstances to our advantage is down to our own incompetence and not to the rigours of FFP! You're confusing how shit we are with how rich we are I'm not arguing we messed up but it's his money and he cant spend it now.
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Jan 17, 2020 13:38:34 GMT
Post by Lakeland Potter on Jan 17, 2020 13:38:34 GMT
The parachute payments in the years after relegation from the Prem, mean that relegated clubs such as ourselves have an annual income which is at least double and probably treble or even quadruple, the income of most Championship clubs in the years following relegation. That biases things massively in favour of the relegated clubs PROVIDING THAT THEY HAVE THE FORESIGHT TO ARRANGE THEIR CONTRACTS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE SITUATION. That we didn't use the circumstances to our advantage is down to our own incompetence and not to the rigours of FFP! You're confusing how shit we are with how rich we are I'm not arguing we messed up but it's his money and he cant spend it now. But it is the amount of money Coates has spent poorly (well it isn't really Coates it is the family company of which he is a very minor shareholder) over the past few years which has brought us to this point. Had bet365 spent less in subsidising the club during the Prem years OR had the money been better spent, we would not be in the difficulties we are in now. Scholes has to take a huge portion of the blame for what has happened. Any investor in a business (even a small investor such as me or anyone with a pension fund invested in stocks and shares ) has to hope that the Chief Executive of each of the companies in which they invest, is doing their job properly. It is becoming very apparent that Scholes has not been running the financial aspect of the club properly. All organisations, be they football leagues, stock exchanges etc. etc. have rules. People in charge of Companies, Football clubs etc. have to be aware of and comply with, those rules or face disaster. Leeds didn't, Birmingham didn't, it appears Derby didn't and, if we are not careful it may turn out that we didn't. No point in bitching about the rules - if you can't accept the rules of a competiton, don't enter!
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Jan 17, 2020 13:44:06 GMT
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Post by franklin66 on Jan 17, 2020 13:44:06 GMT
You're confusing how shit we are with how rich we are I'm not arguing we messed up but it's his money and he cant spend it now. But it is the amount of money Coates has spent poorly (well it isn't really Coates it is the family company of which he is a very minor shareholder) over the past few years which has brought us to this point. Had bet365 spent less in subsidising the club during the Prem years OR had the money been better spent, we would not be in the difficulties we are in now. Scholes has to take a huge portion of the blame for what has happened. Any investor in a business (even a small investor such as me or anyone with a pension fund invested in stocks and shares ) has to hope that the Chief Executive of each of the companies in which they invest, is doing their job properly. It is becoming very apparent that Scholes has not been running the financial aspect of the club properly. All organisations, be they football leagues, stock exchanges etc. etc. have rules. People in charge of Companies, Football clubs etc. have to be aware of and comply with those rules or face disaster. Birmingham didn't, it appears Derby didn't and, if we are not careful it may turn out that we didn't. No point in bitching about the rules - if you can't accept the rules of a competiton, don't enter! I'm not arguing with any of that at all, FFP does limit our future prospects rightly or wrongly if it were still Provincial bookies and pies I'd be all for it but he's minted now and cant spend. That's all the point I'm making nothing more than that, no morals or rules or how shit a staff we have just plain money. Edit: He could if he wished buy the whole liverpool squad for a billion quid and win every game( I know it mental) but he cant even if he wanted and they wanted to sell.
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Jan 17, 2020 14:12:51 GMT
Post by greyman on Jan 17, 2020 14:12:51 GMT
Oh i know and if your in the premier league it's a blessing however once you get relegated it becomes virtually impossible to work around it unless like WBA you bounce back up. Long term as we're finding out it stops our owners from spending regardless of how much they want to spend their money. FFP would have stopped Blackburn from spending so their history would never happen nowadays. I don't actually agree with the statement I have underlined. If a club runs itself properly during its time in the Prem then relegation should not be overly difficult to cope with. See my post above this one - basically it was the numbers of players who were bought in our later years in the Prem who were worth well below what we paid for them and on wages which meant that they became virtually unsaleable. That meant that there was no chance that we could avoid FFP problems after relegation. Several clubs in recent years have not hit huge problems after relegation from the Prem and many of them have bounced back fairly quickly. At one time I would have put money on us being able to do the same - but the serial problems of overpaying for moderate players (and putting those moderate players on long & expensive contracts)at the tail end of Hughes' reign scuppered any chance of an easy time (as regards FFP) in the first few years of the Championship for as long as those long and expensive contracts remain in force. Couldn't agree more. All we're experiencing right now is chickens coming home to roost.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:10:06 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 17, 2020 15:10:06 GMT
You're confusing how shit we are with how rich we are I'm not arguing we messed up but it's his money and he cant spend it now. But it is the amount of money Coates has spent poorly (well it isn't really Coates it is the family company of which he is a very minor shareholder) over the past few years which has brought us to this point. Had bet365 spent less in subsidising the club during the Prem years OR had the money been better spent, we would not be in the difficulties we are in now. Scholes has to take a huge portion of the blame for what has happened. Any investor in a business (even a small investor such as me or anyone with a pension fund invested in stocks and shares ) has to hope that the Chief Executive of each of the companies in which they invest, is doing their job properly. It is becoming very apparent that Scholes has not been running the financial aspect of the club properly. All organisations, be they football leagues, stock exchanges etc. etc. have rules. People in charge of Companies, Football clubs etc. have to be aware of and comply with, those rules or face disaster. Leeds didn't, Birmingham didn't, it appears Derby didn't and, if we are not careful it may turn out that we didn't. No point in bitching about the rules - if you can't accept the rules of a competiton, don't enter! There are plenty of things to criticise Scholes for not sure how you can say he has not been running the financial side properly, I was amazed at how small last years loss was following relegation, teams like Derby and Birmingham are still suffering from their financial meltdowns following relegation many years later, it seems we wrote off much off the dross in the last premiership accounts, having made a profit the year before, this along with the automatic wage cuts seems to have given space for the ill fated attempt to gain promotion at the first attempt. When you consider the firesale Swansea had it seems financially we might be run ok, going forward unless the rules change we will be spending less and using the loan market but considering our recent purchases try before you buy might be a better option.
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FFP
Jan 17, 2020 17:37:52 GMT
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jan 17, 2020 17:37:52 GMT
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FFP
Jan 17, 2020 17:49:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 17:49:48 GMT
I’m really behind on all this. Can someone please summarise this to me (as if I’m a 5 year old). Why are we loaning players out rather than flogging them (other than because people don’t want to buy them)?
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FFP
Jan 17, 2020 17:51:47 GMT
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Post by Veritas on Jan 17, 2020 17:51:47 GMT
I’m really behind on all this. Can someone please summarise this to me (as if I’m a 5 year old). Why are we loaning players out rather than flogging them (other than because people don’t want to buy them)? Got it on one, no one wants to buy them.
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FFP
Jan 17, 2020 18:13:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 18:13:42 GMT
I’m really behind on all this. Can someone please summarise this to me (as if I’m a 5 year old). Why are we loaning players out rather than flogging them (other than because people don’t want to buy them)? Got it on one, no one wants to buy them. And if nothing else, it's wages off the bill. Incredible that we're even debating this. It's a spectacular fall from grace.
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