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Post by ColonelMustard on Dec 1, 2019 14:41:38 GMT
Johnson would be practically unelectable in a conventional election year he just happens to be the lesser of 2 evils this time round . Almost any other labour leader would romp home . Johnson is a muppet who isn't capable of high office I don't think that's true. There's only been 1 labour leader of the past 40 years, it's the one who was backed by the media and completely coincidentally the only one who wasn't even mildly left wing. Absolutely right. Blair was funded by and supported by billionaires and tax evaders. This is the closest we have been in my lifetime to a leader who is independant of exactly the influences that need legislating against. Everything is stacked against us. But it's never been closer.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 14:48:09 GMT
Corbyn being leader and brexit are the two main reasons why labour can’t get elected, I’m not sure a different leader would make much difference though, it’s mostly down to Brexit, the way Labours voters are split on it makes it very difficult for them to bridge the gap between them, whichever way labour came down on brexit it was always going to upset a chunk of their voters and potential voters and Their fence sitting/2nd referendum proposal hasn’t really worked very well because they’re essentially cancelling the first vote, that’s going to upset many northern leavers who would perhaps have voted labour. Exactly this. Miliband in 2015 was about as benign a leader as you could possibly get, and he was torn to shreds by the media. It doesn't matter who Labour put forward, as long as they are even mildly more opposed to big business than the Tories they will be mauled in public. I think people will be voting more on Brexit than anything else, which is a shame because I think 1. Labour have the most sensible position on it, and 2. for me it isn't the most important thing at this election.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 1, 2019 14:59:01 GMT
Corbyn being leader and brexit are the two main reasons why labour can’t get elected, I’m not sure a different leader would make much difference though, it’s mostly down to Brexit, the way Labours voters are split on it makes it very difficult for them to bridge the gap between them, whichever way labour came down on brexit it was always going to upset a chunk of their voters and potential voters and Their fence sitting/2nd referendum proposal hasn’t really worked very well because they’re essentially cancelling the first vote, that’s going to upset many northern leavers who would perhaps have voted labour. Exactly this. Miliband in 2015 was about as benign a leader as you could possibly get, and he was torn to shreds by the media. It doesn't matter who Labour put forward, as long as they are even mildly more opposed to big business than the Tories they will be mauled in public. I think people will be voting more on Brexit than anything else, which is a shame because I think 1. Labour have the most sensible position on it, and 2. for me it isn't the most important thing at this election. Respecting your vote is quite important, though.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 1, 2019 15:00:07 GMT
Corbyn being leader and brexit are the two main reasons why labour can’t get elected, I’m not sure a different leader would make much difference though, it’s mostly down to Brexit, the way Labours voters are split on it makes it very difficult for them to bridge the gap between them, whichever way labour came down on brexit it was always going to upset a chunk of their voters and potential voters and Their fence sitting/2nd referendum proposal hasn’t really worked very well because they’re essentially cancelling the first vote, that’s going to upset many northern leavers who would perhaps have voted labour. Exactly this. Miliband in 2015 was about as benign a leader as you could possibly get, and he was torn to shreds by the media. It doesn't matter who Labour put forward, as long as they are even mildly more opposed to big business than the Tories they will be mauled in public. I think people will be voting more on Brexit than anything else, which is a shame because I think 1. Labour have the most sensible position on it, and 2. for me it isn't the most important thing at this election. Spoken like a true remainer The EU will simply not give labour a better deal knowing that this deal will then be put to a new referendum It can only be a worse deal because the EU want us to stay We all know this is a brexit referendum and despite labour politicians being all over the media non of them have answered how they expect to get a better deal. No leaver is falling for Corbyn’s brexit policy. It is remain by the back door At least the Swinson’s tits are telling you to your face she will revoke A50
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Dec 1, 2019 15:01:48 GMT
I think people will be voting more on Brexit than anything else, which is a shame because I think 1. Labour have the most sensible position on it, and 2. for me it isn't the most important thing at this election. The irony being that if Labour hadn't spent the last 3+ years preventing Brexit it wouldn't be an issue, and all those Labour Leave voters would be backing Labour & seeing them into Government.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 1, 2019 15:02:01 GMT
Johnson would be practically unelectable in a conventional election year he just happens to be the lesser of 2 evils this time round . Almost any other labour leader would romp home . Johnson is a muppet who isn't capable of high office I don't think that's true. There's only been 1 labour leader of the past 40 years, it's the one who was backed by the media and completely coincidentally the only one who wasn't even mildly left wing. Who would you consider the last left wing leader of the Labour Party?
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 1, 2019 15:03:31 GMT
I think people will be voting more on Brexit than anything else, which is a shame because I think 1. Labour have the most sensible position on it, and 2. for me it isn't the most important thing at this election. The irony being that if Labour hadn't spent the last 3+ years preventing Brexit it wouldn't be an issue, and all those Labour Leave voters would be backing Labour & seeing them into Government. Against the wishes of "big business".
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Post by serpico on Dec 1, 2019 15:07:56 GMT
Corbyn being leader and brexit are the two main reasons why labour can’t get elected, I’m not sure a different leader would make much difference though, it’s mostly down to Brexit, the way Labours voters are split on it makes it very difficult for them to bridge the gap between them, whichever way labour came down on brexit it was always going to upset a chunk of their voters and potential voters and Their fence sitting/2nd referendum proposal hasn’t really worked very well because they’re essentially cancelling the first vote, that’s going to upset many northern leavers who would perhaps have voted labour. Exactly this. Miliband in 2015 was about as benign a leader as you could possibly get, and he was torn to shreds by the media. It doesn't matter who Labour put forward, as long as they are even mildly more opposed to big business than the Tories they will be mauled in public. I think people will be voting more on Brexit than anything else, which is a shame because I think 1. Labour have the most sensible position on it, and 2. for me it isn't the most important thing at this election. I don’t think the entire media is as stacked against labour as you make out, Plus In the modern era the mainstream media is playing less of a role, look at trump, he had the entire media (bar Fox News who actually weren’t 100% for trump from the get go) attacking him, but he used that to his advantage and got his message out on Twitter and other social media platforms.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 15:09:09 GMT
Exactly this. Miliband in 2015 was about as benign a leader as you could possibly get, and he was torn to shreds by the media. It doesn't matter who Labour put forward, as long as they are even mildly more opposed to big business than the Tories they will be mauled in public. I think people will be voting more on Brexit than anything else, which is a shame because I think 1. Labour have the most sensible position on it, and 2. for me it isn't the most important thing at this election. Spoken like a true remainer The EU will simply not give labour a better deal knowing that this deal will then be put to a new referendum It can only be a worse deal because the EU want us to stay We all know this is a brexit referendum and despite labour politicians being all over the media non of them have answered how they expect to get a better deal. No leaver is falling for Corbyn’s brexit policy. It is remain by the back door At least the Swinson’s tits are telling you to your face she will revoke A50 I voted leave... And why not? Labour would be going in with far different approaches and goals than the tories were. I don't think you can revoke without asking, hence why I'm in favour of Labour.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 15:10:40 GMT
I don't think that's true. There's only been 1 labour leader of the past 40 years, it's the one who was backed by the media and completely coincidentally the only one who wasn't even mildly left wing. Who would you consider the last left wing leader of the Labour Party? Wasn't alive before 1996 so no idea before that. Miliband was centre-left ish.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 15:15:02 GMT
Exactly this. Miliband in 2015 was about as benign a leader as you could possibly get, and he was torn to shreds by the media. It doesn't matter who Labour put forward, as long as they are even mildly more opposed to big business than the Tories they will be mauled in public. I think people will be voting more on Brexit than anything else, which is a shame because I think 1. Labour have the most sensible position on it, and 2. for me it isn't the most important thing at this election. I don’t think the entire media is as stacked against labour as you make out, Plus In the modern era the mainstream media is playing less of a role, look at trump, he had the entire media (bar Fox News who actually weren’t 100% for trump from the get go) attacking him, but he used that to his advantage and got his message out on Twitter and other social media platforms. As I say, AS has been raging constantly this election cycle, and barely any note has been made of the tory statue to a notorious bigot. A man stabbed people in an awful terrorist atrocity yesterday and several news services have explicitly used this to call out Corbyn's stance on shoot-to-kill, which by the way is not the same as last resort killing. Corbyn released a huge dossier proving tory govts had had talks about including NHS work in trade deals and the BBC ran a video that day of Boris putting jam on a scone. I don't think the whole media is against him but he's certainly had a very rough time of it, and he isn't the only labour leader to have that. Trump had a slightly different endpoint though. He may well have been abused by a lot but he was bankrolled by big business who knew he was on their side.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Dec 1, 2019 15:16:03 GMT
The latest UK-Elect forecast is for a Conservative majority of 42 – Con 345 Lab 215 SNP 46 LD 20
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 1, 2019 15:16:54 GMT
Who would you consider the last left wing leader of the Labour Party? Wasn't alive before 1996 so no idea before that. Miliband was centre-left ish. Actually should have said PM?
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Post by serpico on Dec 1, 2019 15:20:40 GMT
Exactly this. Miliband in 2015 was about as benign a leader as you could possibly get, and he was torn to shreds by the media. It doesn't matter who Labour put forward, as long as they are even mildly more opposed to big business than the Tories they will be mauled in public. I think people will be voting more on Brexit than anything else, which is a shame because I think 1. Labour have the most sensible position on it, and 2. for me it isn't the most important thing at this election. Spoken like a true remainer The EU will simply not give labour a better deal knowing that this deal will then be put to a new referendum It can only be a worse deal because the EU want us to stay We all know this is a brexit referendum and despite labour politicians being all over the media non of them have answered how they expect to get a better deal. No leaver is falling for Corbyn’s brexit policy. It is remain by the back door At least the Swinson’s tits are telling you to your face she will revoke A50 It’s like they hadn’t fully thought it through to its logical conclusion, or they did and hoped nobody else would ? Labours brexit proposal reminds me of that saying “a camel is a horse designed by committee” ... their brexit policy is a camel.
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Post by harryburrows on Dec 1, 2019 15:25:37 GMT
Johnson would be practically unelectable in a conventional election year he just happens to be the lesser of 2 evils this time round . Almost any other labour leader would romp home . Johnson is a muppet who isn't capable of high office I don't think that's true. There's only been 1 labour leader of the past 40 years, it's the one who was backed by the media and completely coincidentally the only one who wasn't even mildly left wing. Having left wing policies isn't the problem for corbyn. Labours policies for this election are borderline lunacy. Removing gas boilers from every home and business, planting billions of trees , free broadband for all , re nationalization of utilities and railways is all unachievable and everyone knows it
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Post by serpico on Dec 1, 2019 15:28:11 GMT
I don’t think the entire media is as stacked against labour as you make out, Plus In the modern era the mainstream media is playing less of a role, look at trump, he had the entire media (bar Fox News who actually weren’t 100% for trump from the get go) attacking him, but he used that to his advantage and got his message out on Twitter and other social media platforms. As I say, AS has been raging constantly this election cycle, and barely any note has been made of the tory statue to a notorious bigot. A man stabbed people in an awful terrorist atrocity yesterday and several news services have explicitly used this to call out Corbyn's stance on shoot-to-kill, which by the way is not the same as last resort killing. Corbyn released a huge dossier proving tory govts had had talks about including NHS work in trade deals and the BBC ran a video that day of Boris putting jam on a scone. I don't think the whole media is against him but he's certainly had a very rough time of it, and he isn't the only labour leader to have that. Trump had a slightly different endpoint though. He may well have been abused by a lot but he was bankrolled by big business who knew he was on their side. Pretty sure Clinton got the bigger share of corporate donors ? Obviously that might be down to her being the overwhelming favorite to win, but still.
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Post by serpico on Dec 1, 2019 15:50:08 GMT
I don't think that's true. There's only been 1 labour leader of the past 40 years, it's the one who was backed by the media and completely coincidentally the only one who wasn't even mildly left wing. Having left wing policies isn't the problem for corbyn. Labours policies for this election are borderline lunacy. Removing gas boilers from every home and business, planting billions of trees , free broadband for all , re nationalization of utilities and railways is all unachievable and everyone knows it What concerned me the most was that Corbyn would stick around long enough to get into power by default of everyone getting sick of the Tories, as much as I dislike the Tories I’m glad it’s looking like they’ll see off Corbyn and his crazy state socialism on steroids ideas, I just hope the next labour leader drops the stupid expensive green ideas, identity politics, attacks on business, nanny statism and all the other stuff that makes This Labour Party unappealing, it’s unlikely as it will probably be someone like Emily Thornberry, but who knows, maybe there’s a decent labour leader lurking somewhere ?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 15:57:28 GMT
I don't think that's true. There's only been 1 labour leader of the past 40 years, it's the one who was backed by the media and completely coincidentally the only one who wasn't even mildly left wing. Having left wing policies isn't the problem for corbyn. Labours policies for this election are borderline lunacy. Removing gas boilers from every home and business, planting billions of trees , free broadband for all , re nationalization of utilities and railways is all unachievable and everyone knows it The billions of trees is completely achievable. It's a fairly moderate number, in Ethiopia they planted 100's of millions in a day. Whatever your views on nationalisation of course it is achievable, in the case of rail they simply allow each franchise to end and take over the reigns, like any government it boils down to getting the sums right and steering the economy in the right direction. But that's no different to the policies of any other party. On broadband it's a radical policy and if I'm honest probably too ambitious, but people underestimate the magnitude of this in terms of business start ups, people working from home to reduce business costs/improve work life balance, less traffic on the road. And the social benefits to those in rural communities who are isolated. It's potentially huge.......
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 1, 2019 16:01:10 GMT
Who would you consider the last left wing leader of the Labour Party? Wasn't alive before 1996 so no idea before that. Miliband was centre-left ish. B!%dy’e!! Fraise! Didn’t realise you were so young. You are without doubt your fathers greatest achievement(not withstanding any siblings you have)
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Post by serpico on Dec 1, 2019 16:06:35 GMT
Having left wing policies isn't the problem for corbyn. Labours policies for this election are borderline lunacy. Removing gas boilers from every home and business, planting billions of trees , free broadband for all , re nationalization of utilities and railways is all unachievable and everyone knows it The billions of trees is completely achievable. It's a fairly moderate number, in Ethiopia they planted 100's of millions in a day. Whatever your views on nationalisation of course it is achievable, in the case of rail they simply allow each franchise to end and take over the reigns, like any government it boils down to getting the sums right and steering the economy in the right direction. But that's no different to the policies of any other party. On broadband it's a radical policy and if I'm honest probably too ambitious, but people underestimate the magnitude of this in terms of business start ups, people working from home to reduce business costs/improve work life balance, less traffic on the road. And the social benefits to those in rural communities who are isolated. It's potentially huge....... Their broadband idea is probably an old one they dusted off, it’s not something that’s needed now, it’s probably just a Hail Mary from labour to see if it can buy a few late votes.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Dec 1, 2019 16:07:39 GMT
Exactly this. Miliband in 2015 was about as benign a leader as you could possibly get, and he was torn to shreds by the media. It doesn't matter who Labour put forward, as long as they are even mildly more opposed to big business than the Tories they will be mauled in public. I think people will be voting more on Brexit than anything else, which is a shame because I think 1. Labour have the most sensible position on it, and 2. for me it isn't the most important thing at this election. Spoken like a true remainer The EU will simply not give labour a better deal knowing that this deal will then be put to a new referendum It can only be a worse deal because the EU want us to stay We all know this is a brexit referendum and despite labour politicians being all over the media non of them have answered how they expect to get a better deal. No leaver is falling for Corbyn’s brexit policy. It is remain by the back door At least the Swinson’s tits are telling you to your face she will revoke A50 Dont agree with this at all. EU will back a deal that aligns closely and doesnt allow UK and US to align. And it will win comfortably. There are many remainers who are democrats but wont vote for a deal that jeopardises Irish peace process or hard Brexit. Think a softer deal leaving EU will walk it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 16:07:41 GMT
I don't think that's true. There's only been 1 labour leader of the past 40 years, it's the one who was backed by the media and completely coincidentally the only one who wasn't even mildly left wing. Having left wing policies isn't the problem for corbyn. Labours policies for this election are borderline lunacy. Removing gas boilers from every home and business, planting billions of trees , free broadband for all , re nationalization of utilities and railways is all unachievable and everyone knows it Apart from the hundreds of economists who have backed it. Free broadband and billions of trees, all been done elsewhere. Boilers need to be done, utilities and railways have failed in private hands.
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Post by Dave the Rave on Dec 1, 2019 16:07:53 GMT
Been Conservative for 15 years but voting Labour this time round. The Conservatives are an absolute disgrace and their continued lies and attempts to paint Corbyn as some kind of racist, terrorist sympathiser are nothing short of disgusting. It doesn't take long to research the smears and realise they're exactly that, complete and utter falsehoods made by those seeking to protect their immense wealth and privilege. Unfortunately, vast swathes of the population will simply watch the BBC, read the express and blindly vote Tory. The next 5 years are going to be the most painful yet for those who can't afford yet more years of Tory austerity. You sir are a liar! A quick search of your posts in the summer of 2017 prior to the election sees you bigging up Corbyn and slagging off "savage" Tory cuts! I don't know what would tempt you to post such blatant lies but you have been found out! Conservative for 15 years my arse My apologies, up to the general election in 2017. I'd almost forgotten that happened tbh - but yes, I did vote Labour back then thinking about it. Effectively since Tory's started making a shit load of money over pursuing the most damaging form of Brexit possible, I've looked upon them very differently. 2019 has been on another level though.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 16:10:12 GMT
Having left wing policies isn't the problem for corbyn. Labours policies for this election are borderline lunacy. Removing gas boilers from every home and business, planting billions of trees , free broadband for all , re nationalization of utilities and railways is all unachievable and everyone knows it What concerned me the most was that Corbyn would stick around long enough to get into power by default of everyone getting sick of the Tories, as much as I dislike the Tories I’m glad it’s looking like they’ll see off Corbyn and his crazy state socialism on steroids ideas, I just hope the next labour leader drops the stupid expensive green ideas, identity politics, attacks on business, nanny statism and all the other stuff that makes This Labour Party unappealing, it’s unlikely as it will probably be someone like Emily Thornberry, but who knows, maybe there’s a decent labour leader lurking somewhere ? All of those things make it appealing to me. The green ideas are far less expensive than if we ignore them. The 'nanny statism' being that people shouldnt be dying in a 1st world country. The attacks on business being that business shouldn't run the country and should pay workers a wage they can live on.
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Post by Dave the Rave on Dec 1, 2019 16:16:47 GMT
Why are people so scared of another referendum?
If leaving the European Union is still the will of the people then 'Leave' will win again and we'll be out as this time we'll have voted on a deal, not a binary yes or no. As such, Parliament will have nothing to discuss as the people have chosen an actual deal.
The problem with the original referendum is that a simple 'Leave' vote meant our sovereign, democratic Parliament couldn't decide on the best form of leaving that would see the country reap the most benefits. That's exactly what they're elected to do. These cries of Parliament stopping democracy simply aren't true.
Some people seem to think they're electing a dictator rather than a Prime Minister.
Vote Labour, get the Tories out, restore our public services AND get Brexit.
Seems the only logical choice to me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2019 16:18:31 GMT
The billions of trees is completely achievable. It's a fairly moderate number, in Ethiopia they planted 100's of millions in a day. Whatever your views on nationalisation of course it is achievable, in the case of rail they simply allow each franchise to end and take over the reigns, like any government it boils down to getting the sums right and steering the economy in the right direction. But that's no different to the policies of any other party. On broadband it's a radical policy and if I'm honest probably too ambitious, but people underestimate the magnitude of this in terms of business start ups, people working from home to reduce business costs/improve work life balance, less traffic on the road. And the social benefits to those in rural communities who are isolated. It's potentially huge....... Their broadband idea is probably an old one they dusted off, it’s not something that’s needed now, it’s probably just a Hail Mary from labour to see if it can buy a few late votes. Full, fast broadband access for the whole country would be a game changer. Whether they can deliver is of course is another story.......
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Post by heyzeus on Dec 1, 2019 16:19:47 GMT
As I say, AS has been raging constantly this election cycle, and barely any note has been made of the tory statue to a notorious bigot. A man stabbed people in an awful terrorist atrocity yesterday and several news services have explicitly used this to call out Corbyn's stance on shoot-to-kill, which by the way is not the same as last resort killing. Corbyn released a huge dossier proving tory govts had had talks about including NHS work in trade deals and the BBC ran a video that day of Boris putting jam on a scone. I don't think the whole media is against him but he's certainly had a very rough time of it, and he isn't the only labour leader to have that. Trump had a slightly different endpoint though. He may well have been abused by a lot but he was bankrolled by big business who knew he was on their side. Pretty sure Clinton got the bigger share of corporate donors ? Obviously that might be down to her being the overwhelming favorite to win, but still. I don't think you understand his point Clinton is also right wing
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Post by ColonelMustard on Dec 1, 2019 16:20:08 GMT
Why are people so scared of another referendum? If leaving the European Union is still the will of the people then 'Leave' will win again and we'll be out as this time we'll have voted on a deal, not a binary yes or no. As such, Parliament will have nothing to discuss as the people have chosen an actual deal. The problem with the original referendum is that a simple 'Leave' vote meant our sovereign, democratic Parliament couldn't decide on the best form of leaving that would see the country reap the most benefits. That's exactly what they're elected to do. These cries of Parliament stopping democracy simply aren't true. Some people seem to think they're electing a dictator rather than a Prime Minister. Vote Labour, get the Tories out, restore our public services AND get Brexit. Seems the only logical choice to me. Exactly. A Corbyn deal will walk it.
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Post by thevoid on Dec 1, 2019 16:20:37 GMT
Pretty sure Clinton got the bigger share of corporate donors ? Obviously that might be down to her being the overwhelming favorite to win, but still. I don't think you understand his point Clinton is also right wing How come you don't post as eebygum anymore, mate? 😊
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Post by heyzeus on Dec 1, 2019 16:23:19 GMT
I don't think you understand his point Clinton is also right wing How come you don't post as eebygum anymore, mate? 😊 I think you have new confused for somebody else friend
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