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Verlinden
Dec 14, 2020 10:44:31 GMT
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Post by Cast no shadow on Dec 14, 2020 10:44:31 GMT
My guess is O'Neill wants somebody more defensive In his appearances so far Verlinden showed as good an aptitude as anyone for tracking back, certainly more than Ince. I hope it's just a case of easing him in, similar to how he did with Ty, Nath & Harry. With our hectic schedule, he will surely be given a go sooner rather than lately, it's then up to the lad to grab it....I'm convinced he will. You'd hope so, I just think he doesn't trust him.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 14, 2020 10:59:51 GMT
Training doesn’t matter. According to Bayern. Which of course is a nonsense normally. At the moment though, how much training are we actually able to do? Take this week, for example, when are the players going to be able to train and prepare properly for tomorrow, or Blackburn, or Spurs next week? It's always an assumption that when a good player is not playing for some unknown reason that the manager is right and he "must be either unfit or playing shit in training". We are dog shit going forward without Campbell, Powell looks ineffective (perhaps knackered) and we are generally about as creative as my cats arse. We have absolutely nothing to lose by giving Verlinden a run out. As a fan I don't really know why anyone could disagree given how lacking in creativity we are? This stuff at the moment is easily as dire as anything Pulis served up. O'Neil has done great results wise but he's not exempt from criticism either. Verlinden should be playing.
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Post by mickstupp on Dec 14, 2020 11:03:40 GMT
Which of course is a nonsense normally. At the moment though, how much training are we actually able to do? Take this week, for example, when are the players going to be able to train and prepare properly for tomorrow, or Blackburn, or Spurs next week? It's always an assumption that when a good player is not playing for some unknown reason that the manager is right and he "must be either unfit or playing shit in training". We are dog shit going forward without Campbell, Powell looks ineffective (perhaps knackered) and we are generally about as creative as my cats arse. We have absolutely nothing to lose by giving Verlinden a run out. As a fan I don't really know why anyone could disagree given how lacking in creativity we are? This stuff at the moment is easily as dire as anything Pulis served up. O'Neil has done great results wise but he's not exempt from criticism either. Verlinden should be playing. Let’s see. Your basing a lot there on Verlinden without a great deal of evidence. He’s done nothing in his Stoke career yet to justify this hype. I do agree we need some inspiration from somewhere but I don’t think Verlinden is the answer. I hope I’m wrong.
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Verlinden
Dec 14, 2020 11:13:16 GMT
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 14, 2020 11:13:16 GMT
Training doesn’t matter. According to Bayern. Which of course is a nonsense normally. At the moment though, how much training are we actually able to do? Take this week, for example, when are the players going to be able to train and prepare properly for tomorrow, or Blackburn, or Spurs next week? Surely a player on the periphery like Verlinden would be bursting his bollocks to show he’s ready though? If MON is suggesting he’s not training well it would make you think something isn’t right?
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Verlinden
Dec 14, 2020 11:23:28 GMT
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 14, 2020 11:23:28 GMT
It's always an assumption that when a good player is not playing for some unknown reason that the manager is right and he "must be either unfit or playing shit in training". We are dog shit going forward without Campbell, Powell looks ineffective (perhaps knackered) and we are generally about as creative as my cats arse. We have absolutely nothing to lose by giving Verlinden a run out. As a fan I don't really know why anyone could disagree given how lacking in creativity we are? This stuff at the moment is easily as dire as anything Pulis served up. O'Neil has done great results wise but he's not exempt from criticism either. Verlinden should be playing. Let’s see. Your basing a lot there on Verlinden without a great deal of evidence. He’s done nothing in his Stoke career yet to justify this hype. I do agree we need some inspiration from somewhere but I don’t think Verlinden is the answer. I hope I’m wrong. I'm not saying he is definitely going to be the savior. I'm saying we have literally nothing else and it's a critical part of the season where creativity is key! I also think he has justified some hype. Bolton fans loved him and hes only played a handful of games for us and still taken 2 motm performances!
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Post by LGH87 on Dec 14, 2020 11:23:32 GMT
It's the same line we had from the manager in pre season re Souttar and Collins, they're now far and away our most reliable defenders.
It could just be something he does to keep the younger players grounded and ensure they don't rest on their laurels.
If by boxing day Verlinden still hasn't had any meaningful game time, it would probably be safer to assume there's an issue there and don't get me wrong, I'd have had him in the team weeks ago.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 14, 2020 11:25:49 GMT
It's the same line we had from the manager in pre season re Souttar and Collins, they're now far and away our most reliable defenders. It could just be something he does to keep the younger players grounded and ensure they don't rest on their laurels. If by boxing day Verlinden still hasn't had any meaningful game time, it would probably be safer to assume there's and issue there and don't get me wrong, I'd have had him in the team weeks ago. Maybe mate but time isn't on our side. The fixtures are coming thick and fast and we can't afford to fuck December up. Its a hugely important month imo.
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Verlinden
Dec 14, 2020 11:31:20 GMT
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Post by mickstupp on Dec 14, 2020 11:31:20 GMT
Let’s see. Your basing a lot there on Verlinden without a great deal of evidence. He’s done nothing in his Stoke career yet to justify this hype. I do agree we need some inspiration from somewhere but I don’t think Verlinden is the answer. I hope I’m wrong. I'm not saying he is definitely going to be the savior. I'm saying we have literally nothing else and it's a critical part of the season where creativity is key! I also think he has justified some hype. Bolton fans loved him and hes only played a handful of games for us and still taken 2 motm performances! Bolton fans do and did love him, but you have to take into account the level of football it was and it’s also prior to him getting a very bad injury. I don’t recall two MOTM awards though? I watched his debut against Reading and thought he showed some nice touches in a very drab game. What was the second?
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Post by lordb on Dec 14, 2020 11:35:53 GMT
I think we are all over thinking it
O'Neill has simply been cautious re a player coming back from a long term injury he'd have to be an idiot not to see his ability & O'Neill 100% isn't an idiot
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Verlinden
Dec 14, 2020 11:46:10 GMT
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 14, 2020 11:46:10 GMT
I'm not saying he is definitely going to be the savior. I'm saying we have literally nothing else and it's a critical part of the season where creativity is key! I also think he has justified some hype. Bolton fans loved him and hes only played a handful of games for us and still taken 2 motm performances! Bolton fans do and did love him, but you have to take into account the level of football it was and it’s also prior to him getting a very bad injury. I don’t recall two MOTM awards though? I watched his debut against Reading and thought he showed some nice touches in a very drab game. What was the second? Didn't he get a motm against Leeds? Maybe I'm imagining that but he's certainly looked good whenever I've seen him.
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Verlinden
Dec 14, 2020 11:47:38 GMT
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 14, 2020 11:47:38 GMT
I think we are all over thinking it O'Neill has simply been cautious re a player coming back from a long term injury he'd have to be an idiot not to see his ability & O'Neill 100% isn't an idiot So wouldn't it have been wise to at least give him a few 20 minute run outs in a couple of the hapless performances crying out for creativity? If he had absolutely zero intention of using him because he was too "unfit", why is he on the bench?
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Post by nottsover60 on Dec 14, 2020 11:49:19 GMT
I've just said on the Campbell replacement thread this should be a real motivator for Verlinden, a place up for grabs over the next three weeks. MON made it perfectly clear what he has to do to get the chance. If he really wants to get in the team he should be tearing up training this week. I can imagine he might have been feeling a bit sorry for himself seeing all his contempories getting in the team while he was out injured and there being no obvious place for him but if he can't convince MON in training this week then I suspect his Stoke career will be over.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2020 12:09:36 GMT
I've just said on the Campbell replacement thread this should be a real motivator for Verlinden, a place up for grabs over the next three weeks. MON made it perfectly clear what he has to do to get the chance. If he really wants to get in the team he should be tearing up training this week. I can imagine he might have been feeling a bit sorry for himself seeing all his contempories getting in the team while he was out injured and there being no obvious place for him but if he can't convince MON in training this week then I suspect his Stoke career will be over. I doubt that very much.
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Post by lordb on Dec 14, 2020 12:11:31 GMT
I think we are all over thinking it O'Neill has simply been cautious re a player coming back from a long term injury he'd have to be an idiot not to see his ability & O'Neill 100% isn't an idiot So wouldn't it have been wise to at least give him a few 20 minute run outs in a couple of the hapless performances crying out for creativity? If he had absolutely zero intention of using him because he was too "unfit", why is he on the bench? would agree he needs minutes, wise to not use him re Boro as they would have just kicked shit out of him should have come on ahead of Ince (& Vokes) in last two games
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Post by nottsover60 on Dec 14, 2020 12:18:37 GMT
I've just said on the Campbell replacement thread this should be a real motivator for Verlinden, a place up for grabs over the next three weeks. MON made it perfectly clear what he has to do to get the chance. If he really wants to get in the team he should be tearing up training this week. I can imagine he might have been feeling a bit sorry for himself seeing all his contempories getting in the team while he was out injured and there being no obvious place for him but if he can't convince MON in training this week then I suspect his Stoke career will be over. I doubt that very much. Perhaps a bit harsh but he's getting too old to want to hang around playing U23 level football and I don't know how long he has left on his contract. If he goes out on loan in January then hopefully Campbell will be back at the beginning of next season and if we also bring in a replacement then Verlinden will be at the back of the queue. It doesn't sound to me as if MON is that impressed with his efforts at the moment but it is very much in Verlinden's own hands. There is a huge opportunity for him which may not arise again. Personally I expect us to loan a Campbell replacement so it may be that Verlinden has the rest of the season but there is also the problem that the standard of loan we would need would require assurances that he will start matches. These three weeks are probably the most important in Verlinden's career.
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Post by medwaypotter on Dec 14, 2020 12:31:59 GMT
I've just said on the Campbell replacement thread this should be a real motivator for Verlinden, a place up for grabs over the next three weeks. MON made it perfectly clear what he has to do to get the chance. If he really wants to get in the team he should be tearing up training this week. I can imagine he might have been feeling a bit sorry for himself seeing all his contempories getting in the team while he was out injured and there being no obvious place for him but if he can't convince MON in training this week then I suspect his Stoke career will be over. I doubt that very much. he's already stated if he's not playing he wants a move January, could easily be the end
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2020 12:47:00 GMT
he's already stated if he's not playing he wants a move January, could easily be the end He doesn't call the shots at scfc. It would be unforgivably stupid, if we let him go, just because he says so. That would completely undermine the manager, the club, everything. Of course he can go on loan until the end of the season, but it won't help further his career, and it won't help us. We need him now or never. He's at a stage where he needs to establish himself, not slip away to a no good lower league club or a Belgian club, which unless it's one of the big three is a dead end.
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Post by bgreen13 on Dec 14, 2020 12:48:10 GMT
he's already stated if he's not playing he wants a move January, could easily be the end And that could be the root of the problem?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 14, 2020 12:48:10 GMT
So wouldn't it have been wise to at least give him a few 20 minute run outs in a couple of the hapless performances crying out for creativity? If he had absolutely zero intention of using him because he was too "unfit", why is he on the bench? would agree he needs minutes, wise to not use him re Boro as they would have just kicked shit out of him should have come on ahead of Ince (& Vokes) in last two games I think some of the fans should have come on ahead of Vokes 😉
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2020 13:10:57 GMT
Perhaps a bit harsh but he's getting too old to want to hang around playing U23 level football and I don't know how long he has left on his contract. If he goes out on loan in January then hopefully Campbell will be back at the beginning of next season and if we also bring in a replacement then Verlinden will be at the back of the queue. It doesn't sound to me as if MON is that impressed with his efforts at the moment but it is very much in Verlinden's own hands. There is a huge opportunity for him which may not arise again. Personally I expect us to loan a Campbell replacement so it may be that Verlinden has the rest of the season but there is also the problem that the standard of loan we would need would require assurances that he will start matches. These three weeks are probably the most important in Verlinden's career. He's got 18 months on his contract. I agree that it's about time finding out whether he's going to break through or not, although when you're 21 you're not too old to be in an u-23. As someone said above or in the other thread technically we should look at him as a player in his second year among the pros, because injuries took away 2 years of his career. On the other hand the biological watch doesn't lie: in July 2022 he will be 23, and if you haven't broken through at 23 chances are you never will. Then he will just be yet another primetime youth (he was on the UEFA list of most promising players 4 years ago, as was N'goy) that Stoke City couldn't groom into an adult class player. This might have further repercussions, because will future young hopefuls want to join a club that in some respects is a talent's graveyard? The players that have made into the team these past 6-18 months: Bursik, Collins, Souttar, and Campbell all differ in one respect: they all are, or were when they joined regarded as British (Souttar has since become Australian and Collins probably wouldn't like to be called British, but that's a minor point in this regard). But in the future we probably can't sign European talents until they are 18 anyway as a resuly of Brexit. So I hope both O'Neill and Verlinden will go that extra mile to make things happen,
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Post by medwaypotter on Dec 14, 2020 13:18:23 GMT
he's already stated if he's not playing he wants a move January, could easily be the end He doesn't call the shots at scfc. It would be unforgivably stupid, if we let him go, just because he says so. That would completely undermine the manager, the club, everything. Of course he can go on loan until the end of the season, but it won't help further his career, and it won't help us. We need him now or never. He's at a stage where he needs to establish himself, not slip away to a no good lower league club or a Belgian club, which unless it's one of the big three is a dead end. Never said he was calling anything, MON seems not to want to play him, and he's stating he wants to go, not the first time we've had this scenario is it
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2020 13:19:12 GMT
he's already stated if he's not playing he wants a move January, could easily be the end He doesn't actually say things the way you report it, as if he was making an ultimative demand on the club. What he says in the article that FM broke earlier in this thread is, "Is it via loan or permanent transfer, that depends on Stoke's plans."
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Post by medwaypotter on Dec 14, 2020 13:21:42 GMT
he's already stated if he's not playing he wants a move January, could easily be the end He doesn't actually say things the way you report it, as if he was making an ultimative demand on the club. What he says in the article that FM broke earlier in this thread is, "Is it via loan or permanent transfer, that depends on Stoke's plans." Read between the lines mate, hardly going to say, "I ain't getting played, I'm fucking off" is he.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2020 13:26:20 GMT
He doesn't call the shots at scfc. It would be unforgivably stupid, if we let him go, just because he says so. That would completely undermine the manager, the club, everything. Of course he can go on loan until the end of the season, but it won't help further his career, and it won't help us. We need him now or never. He's at a stage where he needs to establish himself, not slip away to a no good lower league club or a Belgian club, which unless it's one of the big three is a dead end. Never said he was calling anything, MON seems not to want to play him, and he's stating he wants to go, not the first time we've had this scenario is it No. He doesn't say that. He gets asked if he'd be interested in going to a Belgian club, and he says why not, but it depends on Stoke's plans. In other words if our club's master plan is that he will play for us, then good. But if we don't, then he's willing to try back home, which after all makes sense. Roberto Martinez has spoken highly about him and hinted he could be a part of the national team, and what better way to make an imoression than to play for a Belgian club. O'Neill doesn't not want to play him. He's selected him for the last three match days squads...
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Post by medwaypotter on Dec 14, 2020 13:29:29 GMT
Never said he was calling anything, MON seems not to want to play him, and he's stating he wants to go, not the first time we've had this scenario is it No. He doesn't say that. He gets asked if he'd be interested in going to a Belgian club, and he says why not, but it depends on Stoke's plans. In other words if our club's master plan is that he will play for us, then good. But if we don't, then he's willing to try back home, which after all makes sense. Roberto Martinez has spoken highly about him and hinted he could be a part of the national team, and what better way to make an imoression than to play for a Belgian club. O'Neill doesn't not want to play him. He's selected him for the last three match days squads... He did, and played Ince
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2020 13:57:56 GMT
No. He doesn't say that. He gets asked if he'd be interested in going to a Belgian club, and he says why not, but it depends on Stoke's plans. In other words if our club's master plan is that he will play for us, then good. But if we don't, then he's willing to try back home, which after all makes sense. Roberto Martinez has spoken highly about him and hinted he could be a part of the national team, and what better way to make an imoression than to play for a Belgian club. O'Neill doesn't not want to play him. He's selected him for the last three match days squads... He did, and played Ince His substitutions are pretty weird. He can select 9, but selects only 8. He can use 5, but makes only a couple late in the game. He seems not to have understood the purpose of having 5 options, although he has a glaring injury list. He puts a defender on for a striker, when we're a goal down. And he selects Ince even though he knows perfectly well that Ince couldn't care less. So I wouldn't read much into that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2020 14:02:45 GMT
Campbell was practically weeks from being a free agent. Realistically with Tyrese out, it'll give a chance to Verlinden, sink or swim. Pray good sir, do explain ones self in reference to Master Campbell being weeks from his servitude expiring ? What's with the lingo? People are acting like minds are made up and its all over, when MON came in Campbell wasn't even near the team just like Thibaud now. I think MON will make the right decision and if he sees a future here for him then he'll handle things well just like Tyrese.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 14, 2020 14:04:26 GMT
I think we are all over thinking it O'Neill has simply been cautious re a player coming back from a long term injury he'd have to be an idiot not to see his ability & O'Neill 100% isn't an idiot That only makes sense if he does the same with Allen, I suspect Allen will be involved at the earliest opportunity. Verlinden has also played some under 23 games so again it doesn't point to being careful.
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Post by medwaypotter on Dec 14, 2020 14:07:43 GMT
His substitutions are pretty weird. He can select 9, but selects only 8. He can use 5, but makes only a couple late in the game. He seems not to have understood the purpose of having 5 options, although he has a glaring injury list. He puts a defender on for a striker, when we're a goal down. And he selects Ince even though he knows perfectly well that Ince couldn't care less. So I wouldn't read much into that. Seems to me Verlinden on the bench is a making up the numbers exercise.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 14, 2020 14:11:26 GMT
His substitutions are pretty weird. He can select 9, but selects only 8. He can use 5, but makes only a couple late in the game. He seems not to have understood the purpose of having 5 options, although he has a glaring injury list. He puts a defender on for a striker, when we're a goal down. And he selects Ince even though he knows perfectly well that Ince couldn't care less. So I wouldn't read much into that. I don't think they're that weird, they're all pretty defencive minded, even Ince with his experience etc, I don't think Verlinden was ever getting a chance unless we were 3 or so goals up or down. With the situation as it is though he may not have a choice but to give him some game time, I'm hoping he can then force MON's hand with his performances.
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