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Post by SCFC92 on Aug 23, 2019 7:34:48 GMT
I cannot cope with this anymore, people really want sack another manger and bring Pulis back. Am I in a bad dream. Think I need stop reading anymore threads that mention managers its just crazy. Take a break for a bit mate, luckily our board wouldn't be so stupid as to bring Pulis back.
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Post by strangerthingshappen on Aug 23, 2019 7:58:24 GMT
I cannot cope with this anymore, people really want sack another manger and bring Pulis back. Am I in a bad dream. Think I need stop reading anymore threads that mention managers its just crazy. Take a break for a bit mate, luckily our board wouldn't be so stupid as to bring Pulis back. Theyve done stupider things.........
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 23, 2019 8:00:13 GMT
He did really. He created a Stoke team playing the best football we’d played for years by the end of 2010-11 then senselessly dismantled, removed all the pace from it and created a slow, moribund side that hardly ever scored, despite having £14m worth of strikers spent on it. He lost his way in the transfer market, won four games after New Year in 2011-12 and just three after Christmas the following year. We finished 91st and 92nd for goals scored out of the entire 92 in those last two seasons. As I said, the last year was bad but would I use the world destroy to describe that rather than the Hughes later years, Rowett and what’s going on now sitting at the bottom of the Championship concede everything that’s even near the goal line. No I wouldn’t. And would I trust him to stabilise a club that looks to me like it’s in freefall - yes. It was the last 18 months that were bad really. And if he didn’t destroy it he at least dismantled what he’d built for no apparent reason. The only reason things didn’t get worse is because he was sacked before they could. It would be a retrograde step. I think he’s on the wane in the same way a lot of his peers are and I’m not convinced that his football gets you particularly far in 2019. Appointing him means getting rid of all the things we should be looking to use more of, like the academy, like improving and widening our scouting network. It’s a step in the opposite direction to those taken by most clubs who have been successful at this level over the last few years.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 8:07:03 GMT
As I said, the last year was bad but would I use the world destroy to describe that rather than the Hughes later years, Rowett and what’s going on now sitting at the bottom of the Championship concede everything that’s even near the goal line. No I wouldn’t. And would I trust him to stabilise a club that looks to me like it’s in freefall - yes. It was the last 18 months that were bad really. And if he didn’t destroy it he at least dismantled what he’d built for no apparent reason. The only reason things didn’t get worse is because he was sacked before they could. It would be a retrograde step. I think he’s on the wane in the same way a lot of his peers are and I’m not convinced that his football gets you particularly far in 2019. Appointing him means getting rid of all the things we should be looking to use more of, like the academy, like improving and widening our scouting network. It’s a step in the opposite direction to those taken by most clubs who have been successful at this level over the last few years. It is Rob. My main concern is the academy but I fear if we stay on this one way course we seem to be one at the moment our best youngster will be tempted away in the summer. It won’t happen anyway but for me, as someone said above, we need to learn to walk again before we can run.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 23, 2019 8:10:50 GMT
It was the last 18 months that were bad really. And if he didn’t destroy it he at least dismantled what he’d built for no apparent reason. The only reason things didn’t get worse is because he was sacked before they could. It would be a retrograde step. I think he’s on the wane in the same way a lot of his peers are and I’m not convinced that his football gets you particularly far in 2019. Appointing him means getting rid of all the things we should be looking to use more of, like the academy, like improving and widening our scouting network. It’s a step in the opposite direction to those taken by most clubs who have been successful at this level over the last few years. It is Rob. My main concern is the academy but I fear if we stay on this one way course we seem to be one at the moment our best youngster will be tempted away in the summer. It won’t happen anyway but for me, as someone said above, we need to learn to walk again before we can run. I think it’s still too early to be contemplating a change and there isn’t it a single name in this entire thread that I’d embrace unreservedly as manager. If Manchester United or similar come in for our best youngster he’s likely going to be tempted away regardless. I’m not yet prepared to completely wash away the good aspects of the performance against Derby or even the chances created against Charlton. There is something to work with here and I think we have to give it a little longer.
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Aug 23, 2019 8:15:21 GMT
It is Rob. My main concern is the academy but I fear if we stay on this one way course we seem to be one at the moment our best youngster will be tempted away in the summer. It won’t happen anyway but for me, as someone said above, we need to learn to walk again before we can run. I think it’s still too early to be contemplating a change and there isn’t it a single name in this entire thread that I’d embrace unreservedly as manager. If Manchester United or similar come in for our best youngster he’s likely going to be tempted away regardless. I’m not yet prepared to completely wash away the good aspects of the performance against Derby or even the chances created against Charlton. There is something to work with here and I think we have to give it a little longer. He's got 5 games to turn it around. Expectations will be 9 points minimum. I personally feel that we need to give him until mid October.
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Post by burberrybassist on Aug 23, 2019 8:15:43 GMT
I feel the club has been that toxic over the past few years that even if Pep Guardiola took over as caretaker for the season we would still be languishing near the relegation zone.
Jones is everything we wanted; a young, upcoming, ambitious manager with a plan. I'm willing to stick with him no matter what this season, as I'd rather be watching a project/work in progress, than I would a Pulis/Megson type take over and grind out results week in week out just going through the motions.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 8:19:40 GMT
It is Rob. My main concern is the academy but I fear if we stay on this one way course we seem to be one at the moment our best youngster will be tempted away in the summer. It won’t happen anyway but for me, as someone said above, we need to learn to walk again before we can run. I think it’s still too early to be contemplating a change and there isn’t it a single name in this entire thread that I’d embrace unreservedly as manager. If Manchester United or similar come in for our best youngster he’s likely going to be tempted away regardless. I’m not yet prepared to completely wash away the good aspects of the performance against Derby or even the chances created against Charlton. There is something to work with here and I think we have to give it a little longer. I agree I’m not calling for his head now but for me he’s got until end of September (and if Leeds and Brum are cricket scores then that that will be tough to take) not a whole of season. Not worth the risk IMO.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Aug 23, 2019 8:27:50 GMT
With out doubt.. shortlist will be something like this Moyes Moyes Moyes Moyes Allardyce TP Moyes See the logic, (and would like Moyes personally) though not so sure now - Moyes would want money in Jan, a huge say over things and his own men wouldn't he? All quite costly. Feel they'd go all "Lambert" in their sentiments if they had to replace Nathan. Old, dull, placid, undemanding, stable (and probably ineffectual, sadly). Megson would fit. I think we should ride it out with jones myself because if he goes we are back to square 1 and he's got the hunger to succeed and I think he will. He might have to ditch the diamond though for now at least until we have a few more that are suitable, notably DM, imo. Something has to give shortly, we either start winning or he ditches the diamond temporarily. If in 3 months results havn't massively improved and jones leaves, the club have no option but to bring in somebody that has managed big clubs, under pressure. Fans are out of patience now managers arn't getting the time to sort out the mess before they are harassed. The next appointment will have to be someone who has worked under big pressure. Moyes fits that
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Post by SCFC92 on Aug 23, 2019 8:28:26 GMT
I think it’s still too early to be contemplating a change and there isn’t it a single name in this entire thread that I’d embrace unreservedly as manager. If Manchester United or similar come in for our best youngster he’s likely going to be tempted away regardless. I’m not yet prepared to completely wash away the good aspects of the performance against Derby or even the chances created against Charlton. There is something to work with here and I think we have to give it a little longer. I agree I’m not calling for his head now but for me he’s got until end of September (and if Leeds and Brum are cricket scores then that that will be tough to take) not a whole of season. Not worth the risk IMO. I'm fully behind the bloke but I agree something has to change over the next two games otherwise I think even Jones himself will have his hands forced, I'd be gutted.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 8:50:33 GMT
21st may 2013 was a glorious day
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Post by BristolMick on Aug 23, 2019 9:10:13 GMT
Oh and the idea of Pulis' third coming is physically repulsive, even if he hasn't shown himself to be a colossal cunt in the last half decade or so his tenure at Middlesborough showed him up as the dinosaur he is. Football has left him well behind. At least he has some idea how to manage, Jones is a complete charlatan. Pulis’s first 10 games in charge Won 1 Drew 3 Lost 6 Should have been sacked there and then based on the standards all of his disciples are applying to Jones and every other manager since their toxic hero left. BM Edit. First 10 games second time around starting with a 1-0 defeat at Southend with his new marquee signing Vincent Fucking Péricard leading the front line were almost as bad just swap around the draws and defeats above.
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Post by nott1 on Aug 23, 2019 11:25:07 GMT
At least he has some idea how to manage, Jones is a complete charlatan. Pulis’s first 10 games in charge Won 1 Drew 3 Lost 6 Should have been sacked there and then based on the standards all of his disciples are applying to Jones and every other manager since their toxic hero left. BM Edit. First 10 games second time around starting with a 1-0 defeat at Southend with his new marquee signing Vincent Fucking Péricard leading the front line were almost as bad just swap around the draws and defeats above. We are not talking Jones first ten games now are we, he's got his own signings in place and still not getting results, and this is his second season!
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Post by cousindupree on Aug 23, 2019 11:30:28 GMT
Well it depends on what the boards ambitions are in the short term. It's can definitely not be promotion this season, this current team is nowhere near good even and looks at best a mid table team. I was surprised at the promotion call this season from both the board and Jones. By appointing Jones the board consigned us to this division for a few years until Jones gains experience both of this league and management in general. Expecting a raw manager with only a league two promotion on his CV to turn an ailing club on and off the field into a promotion team was a ridiculous call. In this league an inexperienced manager just doesn't get you promotion quickly. I doubt anyone can suggest a manager with such limited experience as Jones has achieved promotion from the Championship so early in his career. Even Eddie Howe had a few more years under his belt before he got Bournemouth up...and Jones is no Eddie Howe. This season looking at our squad, and after a poor summer recruitment, already promotion looks very unlikely even with a stellar replacement for Jones. But this board don't do stellar appointments. Unless we are in serious trouble end of november then stick with Jones, downgrade supporter expectations by spouting some realism, and make the call in the summer. That call would be another revolution with serious spend with the right manager or accept that Jones is the right guy and prepare for another 4/5 yrs at this level.
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Post by tony1234 on Aug 23, 2019 12:36:25 GMT
At least he has some idea how to manage, Jones is a complete charlatan. Pulis’s first 10 games in charge Won 1 Drew 3 Lost 6 Should have been sacked there and then based on the standards all of his disciples are applying to Jones and every other manager since their toxic hero left. BM Edit. First 10 games second time around starting with a 1-0 defeat at Southend with his new marquee signing Vincent Fucking Péricard leading the front line were almost as bad just swap around the draws and defeats above. 10 games was 16 games ago. What was Pulis' record after 26 games?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 12:48:45 GMT
I’m still happy to give NJ time but things need to improve quickly now.
I mentioned this on another thread but maybe the guy needs to be big enough to ask for help. Perhaps bring in an older more experienced head to help him through this mess.
Not sure NJ would welcome it or the board would sanction it or if indeed anyone would want to help him in an advisory capacity but I can’t see that sacking him would drastically change anything in the foreseeable future.
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Post by nottsover60 on Aug 23, 2019 12:55:51 GMT
I’m still happy to give NJ time but things need to improve quickly now. I mentioned this on another thread but maybe the guy needs to be big enough to ask for help. Perhaps bring in an older more experienced head to help him through this mess. Not sure NJ would welcome it or the board would sanction it or if indeed anyone would want to help him in an advisory capacity but I can’t see that sacking him would drastically change anything in the foreseeable future. Paul Hart is his older head. Who are you going to appoint who will not cause Jones a huge loss of respect amongst the players which would be disastrous?
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Post by lordb on Aug 23, 2019 13:12:30 GMT
For what it's worth I can't see Coates pulling the plug on Jones until the next International break, not this one. If it's still deep doo doo time at that point then any new manager would have plenty of games before January window.
If Jones gets some wins then he might not have won some of you lot and or the crowd in general over but would expect Coates to stick with him then until May.
Just my opinion.
Personally I see little value in changing manager mid season.
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Post by stokeykez on Aug 23, 2019 13:52:05 GMT
For what it's worth I can't see Coates pulling the plug on Jones until the next International break, not this one. If it's still deep doo doo time at that point then any new manager would have plenty of games before January window. If Jones gets some wins then he might not have won some of you lot and or the crowd in general over but would expect Coates to stick with him then until May. Just my opinion. Personally I see little value in changing manager mid season. Stoke do have history with leaving it far too late. Late January when we are 30 points off automatic promotion and were languishing in bottom 5 they may then put together the relationship between promotion and finance.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 14:05:16 GMT
I’m still happy to give NJ time but things need to improve quickly now. I mentioned this on another thread but maybe the guy needs to be big enough to ask for help. Perhaps bring in an older more experienced head to help him through this mess. Not sure NJ would welcome it or the board would sanction it or if indeed anyone would want to help him in an advisory capacity but I can’t see that sacking him would drastically change anything in the foreseeable future. Paul Hart is his older head. Who are you going to appoint who will not cause Jones a huge loss of respect amongst the players which would be disastrous? Not sure who I’d bring in or who would even consider it. I’m not so sure there would be any loss of respect if NJ made sure he was in charge in front of the players. Defensively we are all over the place, maybe a defensive coach could work with the team and get more out of them. We’ve had out of work managers before helping out at training, even Rafa turned up for a bit. I want NJ to succeed but he seems to be really struggling. We all need a little help sometimes...
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Post by lordb on Aug 23, 2019 14:24:07 GMT
For what it's worth I can't see Coates pulling the plug on Jones until the next International break, not this one. If it's still deep doo doo time at that point then any new manager would have plenty of games before January window. If Jones gets some wins then he might not have won some of you lot and or the crowd in general over but would expect Coates to stick with him then until May. Just my opinion. Personally I see little value in changing manager mid season. Stoke do have history with leaving it far too late. Late January when we are 30 points off automatic promotion and were languishing in bottom 5 they may then put together the relationship between promotion and finance. If it gets to January then there's no point changing.
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Post by chigstoke on Aug 23, 2019 14:34:22 GMT
Paul Hart is his older head. Who are you going to appoint who will not cause Jones a huge loss of respect amongst the players which would be disastrous? Not sure who I’d bring in or who would even consider it. I’m not so sure there would be any loss of respect if NJ made sure he was in charge in front of the players. Defensively we are all over the place, maybe a defensive coach could work with the team and get more out of them. We’ve had out of work managers before helping out at training, even Rafa turned up for a bit. I want NJ to succeed but he seems to be really struggling. We all need a little help sometimes... I think a lot of the Rafa business was to do with planting the seeds to get him in. He was mates with Tone but the club wanted him, AFAIK he'd agreed to come to Stoke but Napoli made an offer for him so he went there instead, thus Mark Hughes happened.
On the point of bringing in a Defensive Coach to help out, you'd have to let Jones choose one, and it'd have to be Jones decision on whether he wants one in the first place. I think Jones would be very stubborn and he'll obviously believe that who he has with him now in Joaquin and Hart, plus whoever else is here can manage fine. Seemingly they can't so far but I guess we just have to trust that we'll cut these stupid mistakes out sooner rather than later.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 23, 2019 14:41:10 GMT
Not sure who I’d bring in or who would even consider it. I’m not so sure there would be any loss of respect if NJ made sure he was in charge in front of the players. Defensively we are all over the place, maybe a defensive coach could work with the team and get more out of them. We’ve had out of work managers before helping out at training, even Rafa turned up for a bit. I want NJ to succeed but he seems to be really struggling. We all need a little help sometimes... I think a lot of the Rafa business was to do with planting the seeds to get him in. He was mates with Tone but the club wanted him, AFAIK he'd agreed to come to Stoke but Napoli made an offer for him so he went there instead, thus Mark Hughes happened.
On the point of bringing in a Defensive Coach to help out, you'd have to let Jones choose one, and it'd have to be Jones decision on whether he wants one in the first place. I think Jones would be very stubborn and he'll obviously believe that who he has with him now in Joaquin and Hart, plus whoever else is here can manage fine. Seemingly they can't so far but I guess we just have to trust that we'll cut these stupid mistakes out sooner rather than later.
He’d agreed to come to Stoke weeks after winning the Europa League, when theoretically his stock was higher than it had been for a while? I’d be staggered if that was the case.
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 23, 2019 14:41:48 GMT
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Post by pushon on Aug 23, 2019 14:49:40 GMT
Well it depends on what the boards ambitions are in the short term. It's can definitely not be promotion this season, this current team is nowhere near good even and looks at best a mid table team. I was surprised at the promotion call this season from both the board and Jones. By appointing Jones the board consigned us to this division for a few years until Jones gains experience both of this league and management in general. Expecting a raw manager with only a league two promotion on his CV to turn an ailing club on and off the field into a promotion team was a ridiculous call. In this league an inexperienced manager just doesn't get you promotion quickly. I doubt anyone can suggest a manager with such limited experience as Jones has achieved promotion from the Championship so early in his career. Even Eddie Howe had a few more years under his belt before he got Bournemouth up...and Jones is no Eddie Howe. This season looking at our squad, and after a poor summer recruitment, already promotion looks very unlikely even with a stellar replacement for Jones. But this board don't do stellar appointments. Unless we are in serious trouble end of november then stick with Jones, downgrade supporter expectations by spouting some realism, and make the call in the summer. That call would be another revolution with serious spend with the right manager or accept that Jones is the right guy and prepare for another 4/5 yrs at this level. Results are pointing toward lower than this division though, at the moment.
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Post by chigstoke on Aug 23, 2019 14:53:08 GMT
I think a lot of the Rafa business was to do with planting the seeds to get him in. He was mates with Tone but the club wanted him, AFAIK he'd agreed to come to Stoke but Napoli made an offer for him so he went there instead, thus Mark Hughes happened.
On the point of bringing in a Defensive Coach to help out, you'd have to let Jones choose one, and it'd have to be Jones decision on whether he wants one in the first place. I think Jones would be very stubborn and he'll obviously believe that who he has with him now in Joaquin and Hart, plus whoever else is here can manage fine. Seemingly they can't so far but I guess we just have to trust that we'll cut these stupid mistakes out sooner rather than later.
He’d agreed to come to Stoke weeks after winning the Europa League, when theoretically his stock was higher than it had been for a while? I’d be staggered if that was the case. Obviously can't verify that as 100% gospel truth sadly, but obviously a case of 'that's what I'd heard'.
Then again, I don't think anyone would have thought he'd go to a relegation threatened Newcastle United when he did, then again, as you say regarding his stock, it will have fallen after being sacked at Madrid whereas his stock after the Chelsea season was high.
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Post by march4 on Aug 23, 2019 15:05:50 GMT
I cannot cope with this anymore, people really want sack another manger and bring Pulis back. Am I in a bad dream. Think I need stop reading anymore threads that mention managers its just crazy. Take a break for a bit mate, luckily our board wouldn't be so stupid as to bring Pulis back. The stupidity was sacking TP. in the first place. We were 8th on Boxing Day after hammering Liverpool. Wasn’t that when the ‘process’ began to bite until TP miraculously pulled things round over the last few games. This was compounded by the stupidity of us not ensuring our Prem safety by appointing TP when Hughes was sacked. And now we are facing the biggest crisis since the Quitter left. On that occasion TP was the answer and he remains the answer now. Get rid of the ‘process’ and bring back TP. He is the best in the world at rescuing English football clubs in dire straits.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 23, 2019 15:09:14 GMT
Take a break for a bit mate, luckily our board wouldn't be so stupid as to bring Pulis back. The stupidity was sacking TP. in the first place. We were 8th on Boxing Day after hammering Liverpool. Wasn’t that when the ‘process’ began to bite until TP miraculously pulled things round over the last few games. This was compounded by the stupidity of us not ensuring our Prem safety by appointing TP when Hughes was sacked. And now we are facing the biggest crisis since the Quitter left. On that occasion TP was the answer and he remains the answer now. Get rid of the ‘process’ and bring back TP. He is the best in the world at rescuing English football clubs in dire straits. Will you stop peddling this outright false nonsense, it was passè five years ago.
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Post by nott1 on Aug 23, 2019 15:09:27 GMT
I’m still happy to give NJ time but things need to improve quickly now. I mentioned this on another thread but maybe the guy needs to be big enough to ask for help. Perhaps bring in an older more experienced head to help him through this mess. Not sure NJ would welcome it or the board would sanction it or if indeed anyone would want to help him in an advisory capacity but I can’t see that sacking him would drastically change anything in the foreseeable future. He thinks he's God's gift doing a great job, no way will he accept help of that sort, his ego wouldn't allow it!
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Post by berahinosgoals on Aug 23, 2019 15:11:52 GMT
I’m still happy to give NJ time but things need to improve quickly now. I mentioned this on another thread but maybe the guy needs to be big enough to ask for help. Perhaps bring in an older more experienced head to help him through this mess. Not sure NJ would welcome it or the board would sanction it or if indeed anyone would want to help him in an advisory capacity but I can’t see that sacking him would drastically change anything in the foreseeable future. He thinks he's God's gift doing a great job, no way will he accept help of that sort, his ego wouldn't allow it! He really doesnt though does he, hes got to be positive, it's his job
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