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Post by elystokie on Aug 11, 2019 16:30:10 GMT
Weren't we the 4th highest net spenders at one time in the Premier League under Pulis? The stat I always remember is being outspent by only Man C and Chelsea over a five year period, I may have remembered it wrong of course.
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Post by chigstoke on Aug 11, 2019 16:31:50 GMT
I've got it down as 6.2 Mil Cort, Shawcross, Cresswell, Pugh, Whelan, Griffin, Parkin, Phillips and De Laet all with perm fees. Loans for Nash, Craddock, Ameobi, Fulop, Gallagher, Bothroyd, Wright, Riggott, Pearson. Shawcross and Pugh on initial loans. Probably closer to 8 million when you take Ameobi's loan fee in to account. Cort was £1.62 Mil and Shawcross 1.35 Mil alone. It ranges from £135k to 1.62 Mil per permanent signing adding up to the 6.2. No mate I mean shoalas fee Sorry mate. Yeah I believe it was, I always had it as £1Mil odd. Expensive.
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Jones out
Aug 11, 2019 19:20:37 GMT
via mobile
Post by citynickscfc on Aug 11, 2019 19:20:37 GMT
No mate I mean shoalas fee Sorry mate. Yeah I believe it was, I always had it as £1Mil odd. Expensive. Agents aren't in it for nothing 👍 Oh and that 5 the highest net sieve etc was still the case when we went down.
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Post by bornscfcdiescfc on Aug 11, 2019 20:33:36 GMT
Should Norwich and Sheff. Utd sacked their managers when they didn't achieve promotion in their first season? Should Norwich have sacked their manager when he failed to win his first matches last season and took 7 matches, loads of goals conceded, before they won their second match? Charlton got lucky today, we will on another day. When was the last time we got lucky enough to score 3 goals like charlton did today? If their record was 3 wins from 23 then very possibly yes !!!
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Post by bornscfcdiescfc on Aug 11, 2019 20:37:12 GMT
No let us hear why you think he is the right manager with his crap record...go on.. If you were watching today, which you obviously weren’t as you thought McLean was playing, you would have at least seen a bit of progression. I am sure he is pissed off with himself for bringing off woods and he will learn from that. The last thing whoever our manager is needs, is morons like yourself who cannot wait to jump on their back and f**king moan. Play like that today for the rest of the season and we will be up there. Just don’t be a moron and enjoy the ride I never stated in my initial thread McLean played yesterday. As for a moron saying we are progressing after losing 3-1 you are a tit
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Post by Olgrligm on Aug 11, 2019 21:23:43 GMT
I wrote a post last night that I'm going to lazily copy and post into this thread, because I think it's still relevant. On a personal level (sorry for butting in - genuinely), I think we need to give it the first ten games and take stock. Look at performances and results together and not just knee jerk based on his overall record here. Look at what has changed in terms of results, in terms of performances and then make a judgement. If things carry on as they are and are still the same after ten games then he is on very rocky ground and a decision will obviously have to be made. What is really annoying me at the moment is the total insistence on the facts and figures and no thoughts are being put towards the change in shape, 10 new players that need bedding in (3 in the last few days), an attempt at changing the whole mentality from '40 points nige' and Rowetts cautious football to one of trying to play expansive football, which in my opinion is the hardest shift to make in football. I know we're in a results business but we must be careful to avoid throwing the baby out with the bathwater and potentially pass up a potentially very good long term option (it's got to be potentially as none of us have a crystal ball) for the short term results and frustration. What Jones did at Luton cannot be done on sheer luck. It wasn't a Pulis type promotion at Gillingham where he scored less goals than games, it was an absolute machine that he created. A ridiculous goalscoring machine. I'd rather we took our time a bit and just be sure he cannot repeat it, or get close to it in the situation here before chucking it in and going (again) in a different direction. I think that this is a good post and I would like to add to it. Whenever Jones' future has been called into question on a thread, I've written something like 'three seasons minimum', which I realise probably comes across as quite a fatuous remark. I know that there is all sorts of nuance involved along the way, but I do pretty much believe that we've got to have faith with him in the long haul, largely for the reasons outlined above, but also a couple of other things. Firstly, I'm not daft. I know we didn't really get anything like the upturn in form or intent that we might have hoped for last season when he took over, especially after the Leeds game. I know that the supposedly improved atmosphere around the club hasn't translated to results on the pitch. I'm aware that our squad looks unbalanced and that we've failed to recruit appropriately in key areas. I know that we have all kinds of dreadful records going back to the Hughes reign that plague everything we do on the pitch; we haven't won in London since Bojan scored away at Spurs, we've only scored five goals away from home under Jones, three wins in however many games and so on. I'm quite aware that while I don't think that promotion is a condition of him keeping his job, there's got to be some material improvement on the pitch that yields points. People are not going to put up with seeing us barely having a shot on goal, never mind not scoring more than two goals in a game since midway through Hughes' tenure, for very much longer. Anybody who has paid to go down to London today to see us concede three goals (again) against dreadful opposition (again) is rightly going to be miffed. Having said all of that, I think that we have to look at Jones in a fundamentally different fashion to other recent managers. Last season, the club went all out for a promotion-or-bust campaign. We pinched the highest finishing manager available to us and spent £50,000,000 on a team of seasoned Championship experts who, on paper, should have walked the league. I didn't entirely agree with this approach - I think we would have pretty much guaranteed promotion had we nabbed Mick McCarthy instead of Rowett - but the intent was there. When he was sacked in January, it was a sign that this approach had failed completely, and that a new tack was required. Anything less than automatic promotion for Rowett would be a failure, but the appointment of Jones allowed us to reconfigure our aims with what was clearly a talented but dysfunctional squad that were ultimately a bunch of mid-table plodders. Jones was appointed as a man who had built a mini-empire at Luton, and transformed the club into a footballing machine. He wasn't brought in as a quick-fix like Rowett, he was brought in to overhaul things and rebuild on solid foundations. For all of the reasons outlined in the post above, this was not going to be a smooth rebuild. I think we can all accept that there is a general malaise at the club that goes beyond the current manager, a malaise that has been around for at least three or four years. Our neighbours in Burslem have had a similar problem, and have responded by sacking their manager every year, sometimes after as little as six months. It has got them precisely nowhere, because their issues lie elsewhere. Does it not send alarm bells ringing when the manager says that asides from James Justin, he was presented with a list of left backs who were, to a man, no better in the role than James McClean? That after we missed out on our first choice, the only other left back in the whole world was another 30-something Beswicks player? It's not a case of the manager not being backed to make signings, but of there clearly being an issues at the stage of identifying targets. This has been going on for years. Now that we have continued to have recruitment problems with a manager who played alongside Mark Cartwright at Brighton and apparently gets on quite well with him, somebody at the club seems to have decided that perhaps there is a problem with the process. I don't like the turn Mark Cartwright into a scapegoat, and none of us really knows the full ins and outs, but you would hope that his announced departure will signal a more robust player identification system and start to shake the malaise. This isn't something that is going to be solved by having a revolving door of managers. I don't really know, at this point, what supporters really want in a manager. Eight months ago (and twelve months ago, and 18 months ago) there was a very large portion of the support on this board who bemoaned the board's lack of imagination in appointing short-term, quick-fix British managers. There was a lot of acclaim for the idea of a Graham Potter or Daniel Farke type, who would be about more than just the instant, slightly ugly success that would inevitably come with Bruce, McCarthy et al. Now that we have such a long term project, an ever-increasing number of supporters are calling for the immediate appointment of a short-term, quick-fix British manager. The names that I've seen the most are Chris Hughton and you-know-who. We can't have it both ways. We've either got to be prepared to put up with a bumpy journey in the early stages, or be willing to risk another all-or-nothing Rowett season with no foundations and declining parachute payments. So there's my take on it. I think that Jones is a talented manager who has the potential to do very good things. I know that it hasn't clicked at Stoke yet, but I want to see him given a chance. I want to see the club sharpen its act up off the pitch, and for Jones to have the opportunity to properly mould the team in his image. I think that he can put together the sort of side that he built at Luton, but that it's going to take an almightly effort that will take more than just one summer. We will have to ride out the rough with the smooth. As for this season, we only won six out of our first 17 games in the promotion season. We had a spell where we lost four out of six games in October and November. It wasn't until we beat QPR at home at the end of November that we began to look like anything other than mid-table also-rans. Norwich had a dreadful time under their manager the season before last. It's not too late, yet.
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Post by carruthers1on1 on Aug 11, 2019 21:47:34 GMT
I wrote a post last night that I'm going to lazily copy and post into this thread, because I think it's still relevant. On a personal level (sorry for butting in - genuinely), I think we need to give it the first ten games and take stock. Look at performances and results together and not just knee jerk based on his overall record here. Look at what has changed in terms of results, in terms of performances and then make a judgement. If things carry on as they are and are still the same after ten games then he is on very rocky ground and a decision will obviously have to be made. What is really annoying me at the moment is the total insistence on the facts and figures and no thoughts are being put towards the change in shape, 10 new players that need bedding in (3 in the last few days), an attempt at changing the whole mentality from '40 points nige' and Rowetts cautious football to one of trying to play expansive football, which in my opinion is the hardest shift to make in football. I know we're in a results business but we must be careful to avoid throwing the baby out with the bathwater and potentially pass up a potentially very good long term option (it's got to be potentially as none of us have a crystal ball) for the short term results and frustration. What Jones did at Luton cannot be done on sheer luck. It wasn't a Pulis type promotion at Gillingham where he scored less goals than games, it was an absolute machine that he created. A ridiculous goalscoring machine. I'd rather we took our time a bit and just be sure he cannot repeat it, or get close to it in the situation here before chucking it in and going (again) in a different direction. I think that this is a good post and I would like to add to it. Whenever Jones' future has been called into question on a thread, I've written something like 'three seasons minimum', which I realise probably comes across as quite a fatuous remark. I know that there is all sorts of nuance involved along the way, but I do pretty much believe that we've got to have faith with him in the long haul, largely for the reasons outlined above, but also a couple of other things. Firstly, I'm not daft. I know we didn't really get anything like the upturn in form or intent that we might have hoped for last season when he took over, especially after the Leeds game. I know that the supposedly improved atmosphere around the club hasn't translated to results on the pitch. I'm aware that our squad looks unbalanced and that we've failed to recruit appropriately in key areas. I know that we have all kinds of dreadful records going back to the Hughes reign that plague everything we do on the pitch; we haven't won in London since Bojan scored away at Spurs, we've only scored five goals away from home under Jones, three wins in however many games and so on. I'm quite aware that while I don't think that promotion is a condition of him keeping his job, there's got to be some material improvement on the pitch that yields points. People are not going to put up with seeing us barely having a shot on goal, never mind not scoring more than two goals in a game since midway through Hughes' tenure, for very much longer. Anybody who has paid to go down to London today to see us concede three goals (again) against dreadful opposition (again) is rightly going to be miffed. Having said all of that, I think that we have to look at Jones in a fundamentally different fashion to other recent managers. Last season, the club went all out for a promotion-or-bust campaign. We pinched the highest finishing manager available to us and spent £50,000,000 on a team of seasoned Championship experts who, on paper, should have walked the league. I didn't entirely agree with this approach - I think we would have pretty much guaranteed promotion had we nabbed Mick McCarthy instead of Rowett - but the intent was there. When he was sacked in January, it was a sign that this approach had failed completely, and that a new tack was required. Anything less than automatic promotion for Rowett would be a failure, but the appointment of Jones allowed us to reconfigure our aims with what was clearly a talented but dysfunctional squad that were ultimately a bunch of mid-table plodders. Jones was appointed as a man who had built a mini-empire at Luton, and transformed the club into a footballing machine. He wasn't brought in as a quick-fix like Rowett, he was brought in to overhaul things and rebuild on solid foundations. For all of the reasons outlined in the post above, this was not going to be a smooth rebuild. I think we can all accept that there is a general malaise at the club that goes beyond the current manager, a malaise that has been around for at least three or four years. Our neighbours in Burslem have had a similar problem, and have responded by sacking their manager every year, sometimes after as little as six months. It has got them precisely nowhere, because their issues lie elsewhere. Does it not send alarm bells ringing when the manager says that asides from James Justin, he was presented with a list of left backs who were, to a man, no better in the role than James McClean? That after we missed out on our first choice, the only other left back in the whole world was another 30-something Beswicks player? It's not a case of the manager not being backed to make signings, but of there clearly being an issues at the stage of identifying targets. This has been going on for years. Now that we have continued to have recruitment problems with a manager who played alongside Mark Cartwright at Brighton and apparently gets on quite well with him, somebody at the club seems to have decided that perhaps there is a problem with the process. I don't like the turn Mark Cartwright into a scapegoat, and none of us really knows the full ins and outs, but you would hope that his announced departure will signal a more robust player identification system and start to shake the malaise. This isn't something that is going to be solved by having a revolving door of managers. I don't really know, at this point, what supporters really want in a manager. Eight months ago (and twelve months ago, and 18 months ago) there was a very large portion of the support on this board who bemoaned the board's lack of imagination in appointing short-term, quick-fix British managers. There was a lot of acclaim for the idea of a Graham Potter or Daniel Farke type, who would be about more than just the instant, slightly ugly success that would inevitably come with Bruce, McCarthy et al. Now that we have such a long term project, an ever-increasing number of supporters are calling for the immediate appointment of a short-term, quick-fix British manager. The names that I've seen the most are Chris Hughton and you-know-who. We can't have it both ways. We've either got to be prepared to put up with a bumpy journey in the early stages, or be willing to risk another all-or-nothing Rowett season with no foundations and declining parachute payments. So there's my take on it. I think that Jones is a talented manager who has the potential to do very good things. I know that it hasn't clicked at Stoke yet, but I want to see him given a chance. I want to see the club sharpen its act up off the pitch, and for Jones to have the opportunity to properly mould the team in his image. I think that he can put together the sort of side that he built at Luton, but that it's going to take an almightly effort that will take more than just one summer. We will have to ride out the rough with the smooth. As for this season, we only won six out of our first 17 games in the promotion season. We had a spell where we lost four out of six games in October and November. It wasn't until we beat QPR at home at the end of November that we began to look like anything other than mid-table also-rans. Norwich had a dreadful time under their manager the season before last. It's not too late, yet. Two great posts. If I could just add to it... My personal feeling is that I like him, and believe in what he says he wants to do, and believe that what he says he wants to do is the right way to go forwards... but that’s all about words at this point so I’ll leave that stuff to one side. The main reason sacking him any time soon is problematic is that we’ve spent massive amounts of time, money and energy getting rid of Hughes’ players and the same with some of Rowetts too. We have allowed NJ the luxury of signing 12 Nathan Jones players; they are of a specific type, a particular type of player. If we sack him is the next man through the door going to rate them or say he needs time to get the players in HE wants? Do we just start the cycle again? For me, we had players, scouts, coaches and Cartwright stinking the place out and Jones has started the process of lancing the boil. But this decline has been years in the making and its not going to be put right over night. Yes, we need to get results, but we need to rebuild the club and I feel, and it’s back to that gut feeling, that he’s the man to do it.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Aug 11, 2019 21:49:20 GMT
I wrote a post last night that I'm going to lazily copy and post into this thread, because I think it's still relevant. On a personal level (sorry for butting in - genuinely), I think we need to give it the first ten games and take stock. Look at performances and results together and not just knee jerk based on his overall record here. Look at what has changed in terms of results, in terms of performances and then make a judgement. If things carry on as they are and are still the same after ten games then he is on very rocky ground and a decision will obviously have to be made. What is really annoying me at the moment is the total insistence on the facts and figures and no thoughts are being put towards the change in shape, 10 new players that need bedding in (3 in the last few days), an attempt at changing the whole mentality from '40 points nige' and Rowetts cautious football to one of trying to play expansive football, which in my opinion is the hardest shift to make in football. I know we're in a results business but we must be careful to avoid throwing the baby out with the bathwater and potentially pass up a potentially very good long term option (it's got to be potentially as none of us have a crystal ball) for the short term results and frustration. What Jones did at Luton cannot be done on sheer luck. It wasn't a Pulis type promotion at Gillingham where he scored less goals than games, it was an absolute machine that he created. A ridiculous goalscoring machine. I'd rather we took our time a bit and just be sure he cannot repeat it, or get close to it in the situation here before chucking it in and going (again) in a different direction. I think that this is a good post and I would like to add to it. Whenever Jones' future has been called into question on a thread, I've written something like 'three seasons minimum', which I realise probably comes across as quite a fatuous remark. I know that there is all sorts of nuance involved along the way, but I do pretty much believe that we've got to have faith with him in the long haul, largely for the reasons outlined above, but also a couple of other things. Firstly, I'm not daft. I know we didn't really get anything like the upturn in form or intent that we might have hoped for last season when he took over, especially after the Leeds game. I know that the supposedly improved atmosphere around the club hasn't translated to results on the pitch. I'm aware that our squad looks unbalanced and that we've failed to recruit appropriately in key areas. I know that we have all kinds of dreadful records going back to the Hughes reign that plague everything we do on the pitch; we haven't won in London since Bojan scored away at Spurs, we've only scored five goals away from home under Jones, three wins in however many games and so on. I'm quite aware that while I don't think that promotion is a condition of him keeping his job, there's got to be some material improvement on the pitch that yields points. People are not going to put up with seeing us barely having a shot on goal, never mind not scoring more than two goals in a game since midway through Hughes' tenure, for very much longer. Anybody who has paid to go down to London today to see us concede three goals (again) against dreadful opposition (again) is rightly going to be miffed. Having said all of that, I think that we have to look at Jones in a fundamentally different fashion to other recent managers. Last season, the club went all out for a promotion-or-bust campaign. We pinched the highest finishing manager available to us and spent £50,000,000 on a team of seasoned Championship experts who, on paper, should have walked the league. I didn't entirely agree with this approach - I think we would have pretty much guaranteed promotion had we nabbed Mick McCarthy instead of Rowett - but the intent was there. When he was sacked in January, it was a sign that this approach had failed completely, and that a new tack was required. Anything less than automatic promotion for Rowett would be a failure, but the appointment of Jones allowed us to reconfigure our aims with what was clearly a talented but dysfunctional squad that were ultimately a bunch of mid-table plodders. Jones was appointed as a man who had built a mini-empire at Luton, and transformed the club into a footballing machine. He wasn't brought in as a quick-fix like Rowett, he was brought in to overhaul things and rebuild on solid foundations. For all of the reasons outlined in the post above, this was not going to be a smooth rebuild. I think we can all accept that there is a general malaise at the club that goes beyond the current manager, a malaise that has been around for at least three or four years. Our neighbours in Burslem have had a similar problem, and have responded by sacking their manager every year, sometimes after as little as six months. It has got them precisely nowhere, because their issues lie elsewhere. Does it not send alarm bells ringing when the manager says that asides from James Justin, he was presented with a list of left backs who were, to a man, no better in the role than James McClean? That after we missed out on our first choice, the only other left back in the whole world was another 30-something Beswicks player? It's not a case of the manager not being backed to make signings, but of there clearly being an issues at the stage of identifying targets. This has been going on for years. Now that we have continued to have recruitment problems with a manager who played alongside Mark Cartwright at Brighton and apparently gets on quite well with him, somebody at the club seems to have decided that perhaps there is a problem with the process. I don't like the turn Mark Cartwright into a scapegoat, and none of us really knows the full ins and outs, but you would hope that his announced departure will signal a more robust player identification system and start to shake the malaise. This isn't something that is going to be solved by having a revolving door of managers. I don't really know, at this point, what supporters really want in a manager. Eight months ago (and twelve months ago, and 18 months ago) there was a very large portion of the support on this board who bemoaned the board's lack of imagination in appointing short-term, quick-fix British managers. There was a lot of acclaim for the idea of a Graham Potter or Daniel Farke type, who would be about more than just the instant, slightly ugly success that would inevitably come with Bruce, McCarthy et al. Now that we have such a long term project, an ever-increasing number of supporters are calling for the immediate appointment of a short-term, quick-fix British manager. The names that I've seen the most are Chris Hughton and you-know-who. We can't have it both ways. We've either got to be prepared to put up with a bumpy journey in the early stages, or be willing to risk another all-or-nothing Rowett season with no foundations and declining parachute payments. So there's my take on it. I think that Jones is a talented manager who has the potential to do very good things. I know that it hasn't clicked at Stoke yet, but I want to see him given a chance. I want to see the club sharpen its act up off the pitch, and for Jones to have the opportunity to properly mould the team in his image. I think that he can put together the sort of side that he built at Luton, but that it's going to take an almightly effort that will take more than just one summer. We will have to ride out the rough with the smooth. As for this season, we only won six out of our first 17 games in the promotion season. We had a spell where we lost four out of six games in October and November. It wasn't until we beat QPR at home at the end of November that we began to look like anything other than mid-table also-rans. Norwich had a dreadful time under their manager the season before last. It's not too late, yet. Any chance of a two sentence summary 🤣 I’ll old tired and weary!
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Post by bornscfcdiescfc on Aug 12, 2019 20:34:29 GMT
I would love nothing more to eat humble pie if it meant our club could regain its stable footings and go in a forward direction...The reason I initiated the post was because I haven't seen any green shoots...NJ in 23 games has not done anything positive for me....no team however bad is 100% bad but to say its the best we have played for 3 weeks/months/years when we lose to a newly promoted team 1-3 is quite frankly talking shit...we need to win games ..not be unlucky losers..if we win 2 on the bounce then yes green shoots...but NJ had 21 games to get results but most of us say "well it wasn't his team" . As a manager you are judged on results and he is very lucky to still be a manager..maybe he should ditch his diamond and get back to the SCFC way 100% in you face football...if it leaves players knackered than I think we have enough players in reserve to go for it again the next game...in dire straits for me a 4-4-2 and treating it as a cup match is the way to sort the squad out...just my opinion
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Jones out
Aug 16, 2019 14:15:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by crouchpotato1 on Aug 16, 2019 14:15:50 GMT
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Post by march4 on Aug 16, 2019 14:33:26 GMT
Jones is under huge pressure.
A good result tomorrow will help him a little.
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Post by thisisouryear on Aug 16, 2019 14:34:16 GMT
So he knows the square root of fuck all about us and has watched the highlights and made his predictions from them...lazy twat.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 16, 2019 14:44:12 GMT
I would love nothing more to eat humble pie if it meant our club could regain its stable footings and go in a forward direction...The reason I initiated the post was because I haven't seen any green shoots...NJ in 23 games has not done anything positive for me....no team however bad is 100% bad but to say its the best we have played for 3 weeks/months/years when we lose to a newly promoted team 1-3 is quite frankly talking shit...we need to win games ..not be unlucky losers..if we win 2 on the bounce then yes green shoots...but NJ had 21 games to get results but most of us say "well it wasn't his team" . As a manager you are judged on results and he is very lucky to still be a manager..maybe he should ditch his diamond and get back to the SCFC way 100% in you face football...if it leaves players knackered than I think we have enough players in reserve to go for it again the next game...in dire straits for me a 4-4-2 and treating it as a cup match is the way to sort the squad out...just my opinion ‘The SCFC Way’ bollocks again...
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Post by DC1863 on Aug 16, 2019 15:08:40 GMT
Dean Ashton is to football what Gareth Gates is to music. Irrelevant and shite.
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Post by LankyPotter on Aug 16, 2019 15:09:40 GMT
I would love nothing more to eat humble pie if it meant our club could regain its stable footings and go in a forward direction...The reason I initiated the post was because I haven't seen any green shoots...NJ in 23 games has not done anything positive for me....no team however bad is 100% bad but to say its the best we have played for 3 weeks/months/years when we lose to a newly promoted team 1-3 is quite frankly talking shit...we need to win games ..not be unlucky losers..if we win 2 on the bounce then yes green shoots...but NJ had 21 games to get results but most of us say "well it wasn't his team" . As a manager you are judged on results and he is very lucky to still be a manager..maybe he should ditch his diamond and get back to the SCFC way 100% in you face football...if it leaves players knackered than I think we have enough players in reserve to go for it again the next game...in dire straits for me a 4-4-2 and treating it as a cup match is the way to sort the squad out...just my opinion What is life like living back in 2008?
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Post by nott1 on Aug 16, 2019 15:12:27 GMT
So he knows the square root of fuck all about us and has watched the highlights and made his predictions from them...lazy twat. How many league games have we won?
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 16, 2019 15:13:50 GMT
I would love nothing more to eat humble pie if it meant our club could regain its stable footings and go in a forward direction...The reason I initiated the post was because I haven't seen any green shoots...NJ in 23 games has not done anything positive for me....no team however bad is 100% bad but to say its the best we have played for 3 weeks/months/years when we lose to a newly promoted team 1-3 is quite frankly talking shit...we need to win games ..not be unlucky losers..if we win 2 on the bounce then yes green shoots...but NJ had 21 games to get results but most of us say "well it wasn't his team" . As a manager you are judged on results and he is very lucky to still be a manager..maybe he should ditch his diamond and get back to the SCFC way 100% in you face football...if it leaves players knackered than I think we have enough players in reserve to go for it again the next game...in dire straits for me a 4-4-2 and treating it as a cup match is the way to sort the squad out...just my opinion Actually if you want old school, in your face, 442 you are right about wanting rid of Jones - he's not a dinosaur manager and he isn't going to ditch a more progressive style of football because it hasn't bedded in yet. Jones (and 21st century football) In!
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Post by thisisouryear on Aug 16, 2019 15:27:39 GMT
So he knows the square root of fuck all about us and has watched the highlights and made his predictions from them...lazy twat. How many league games have we won? I take it if we beat Derby the next one will be when did we last win a league game away? The results have not gone our way but the performances deserved much more. I certainly wouldn't say we are flat. Jones will still be fine tuning his 1st team and finding which players link better, but we have a strong squad and will be challenging for promotion this year.
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Post by GoBoks on Aug 16, 2019 15:34:30 GMT
I would love nothing more to eat humble pie if it meant our club could regain its stable footings and go in a forward direction...The reason I initiated the post was because I haven't seen any green shoots...NJ in 23 games has not done anything positive for me....no team however bad is 100% bad but to say its the best we have played for 3 weeks/months/years when we lose to a newly promoted team 1-3 is quite frankly talking shit...we need to win games ..not be unlucky losers..if we win 2 on the bounce then yes green shoots...but NJ had 21 games to get results but most of us say "well it wasn't his team" . As a manager you are judged on results and he is very lucky to still be a manager..maybe he should ditch his diamond and get back to the SCFC way 100% in you face football...if it leaves players knackered than I think we have enough players in reserve to go for it again the next game...in dire straits for me a 4-4-2 and treating it as a cup match is the way to sort the squad out...just my opinion Luckily for us and SCFC, you are not the manager. I'll pass on some nebulous idea that "the SCFC way" is what will get us out of the current situation.
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Post by GoBoks on Aug 16, 2019 15:40:33 GMT
How many league games have we won? I take it if we beat Derby the next one will be when did we last win a league game away? The results have not gone our way but the performances deserved much more. I certainly wouldn't say we are flat. Jones will still be fine tuning his 1st team and finding which players link better, but we have a strong squad and will be challenging for promotion this year. And the one after that will be "When last did we beat a true contender" and then "I don't like his promises of young attacking football when we get <insert favorite scapegoat>, and then ..... Well some people are just never happy. I remember people complaining about Hughes when he was guiding us to our second 9th place finish because he had not improved on our previous season position.
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Post by nott1 on Aug 16, 2019 15:48:23 GMT
Some people are easily satisfied.
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Jones out
Aug 16, 2019 15:49:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by werrington on Aug 16, 2019 15:49:42 GMT
I would love nothing more to eat humble pie if it meant our club could regain its stable footings and go in a forward direction...The reason I initiated the post was because I haven't seen any green shoots...NJ in 23 games has not done anything positive for me....no team however bad is 100% bad but to say its the best we have played for 3 weeks/months/years when we lose to a newly promoted team 1-3 is quite frankly talking shit...we need to win games ..not be unlucky losers..if we win 2 on the bounce then yes green shoots...but NJ had 21 games to get results but most of us say "well it wasn't his team" . As a manager you are judged on results and he is very lucky to still be a manager..maybe he should ditch his diamond and get back to the SCFC way 100% in you face football...if it leaves players knackered than I think we have enough players in reserve to go for it again the next game...in dire straits for me a 4-4-2 and treating it as a cup match is the way to sort the squad out...just my opinion ‘The SCFC Way’ bollocks again... Why can’t the SCFC way be like it was back in the 70s or the 3 fantastic years Hughes gave us?
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Aug 16, 2019 15:50:31 GMT
How many league games have we won? I take it if we beat Derby the next one will be when did we last win a league game away? The results have not gone our way but the performances deserved much more. I certainly wouldn't say we are flat. Jones will still be fine tuning his 1st team and finding which players link better, but we have a strong squad and will be challenging for promotion this year. If we beat Derby it'll be 'Rowett did that with 10 men!" What's Dean Ashton's username on here?
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Post by Roy Cropper on Aug 16, 2019 15:51:00 GMT
Some people are idiots.
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Post by neddy on Aug 16, 2019 15:51:51 GMT
One to pin on the dressing room wall?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 16, 2019 15:51:58 GMT
‘The SCFC Way’ bollocks again... Why can’t the SCFC way be like it was back in the 70s or the 3 fantastic years Hughes gave us? I don't get it myself mate. Even Lou's team didn't play exactly the same way, there isn't one single golden era that has dibs on 'the Stoke way'. Same with any club. It's why whenever people talk about someone getting a job because they 'know the place' it boils my piss!
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Post by thehoof on Aug 16, 2019 15:53:04 GMT
We are getting ahead of ourselves again. The facts are quite simple, win and people will forgive mistakes that is the nature of football. Lose and that would be 3 out of 3 and would rightly bring into question the previous 23 game record- it is Jones who has made all the statements around the quality of the squad and what this seasons aim is; I am really not bothered as to what we look like tomorrow so long as we win. The green shoots of recovery have to translate into victories- and that will mean beating teams who could well be the better teams in the division- tomorrow would be a good day to start.
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Post by thisisouryear on Aug 16, 2019 16:14:30 GMT
Some people are easily satisfied. I don't think it's about being easily satisfied. Nobody is satisfied with losing but we are in transition. Jones has had to strip the club down to the bone and work from the bottom up. We will see in time how good Jones is but some of us just have more patience and are willing to give Jones the chance to do it his way. The club was a mess, it wasn't Jones's mess either. This team will come good, and even if it doesn't work out for Jones then the next manager will have a solid platform to work from, a platform Jones never had. When Jones leaves the club it will be much stronger than when he came that's for sure. If you can't see the improvements already then that's your problem, i see a potentially great season ahead once these players bed in.
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Jones out
Aug 16, 2019 19:09:07 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 19:09:07 GMT
“But having been to a few of their games last season, when that form isn't very good, the atmosphere changes very, very quickly.” Another one blaming the fans...
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Post by Lesalanos on Aug 16, 2019 19:13:00 GMT
I wrote a post last night that I'm going to lazily copy and post into this thread, because I think it's still relevant. On a personal level (sorry for butting in - genuinely), I think we need to give it the first ten games and take stock. Look at performances and results together and not just knee jerk based on his overall record here. Look at what has changed in terms of results, in terms of performances and then make a judgement. If things carry on as they are and are still the same after ten games then he is on very rocky ground and a decision will obviously have to be made. What is really annoying me at the moment is the total insistence on the facts and figures and no thoughts are being put towards the change in shape, 10 new players that need bedding in (3 in the last few days), an attempt at changing the whole mentality from '40 points nige' and Rowetts cautious football to one of trying to play expansive football, which in my opinion is the hardest shift to make in football. I know we're in a results business but we must be careful to avoid throwing the baby out with the bathwater and potentially pass up a potentially very good long term option (it's got to be potentially as none of us have a crystal ball) for the short term results and frustration. What Jones did at Luton cannot be done on sheer luck. It wasn't a Pulis type promotion at Gillingham where he scored less goals than games, it was an absolute machine that he created. A ridiculous goalscoring machine. I'd rather we took our time a bit and just be sure he cannot repeat it, or get close to it in the situation here before chucking it in and going (again) in a different direction. I think that this is a good post and I would like to add to it. Whenever Jones' future has been called into question on a thread, I've written something like 'three seasons minimum', which I realise probably comes across as quite a fatuous remark. I know that there is all sorts of nuance involved along the way, but I do pretty much believe that we've got to have faith with him in the long haul, largely for the reasons outlined above, but also a couple of other things. Firstly, I'm not daft. I know we didn't really get anything like the upturn in form or intent that we might have hoped for last season when he took over, especially after the Leeds game. I know that the supposedly improved atmosphere around the club hasn't translated to results on the pitch. I'm aware that our squad looks unbalanced and that we've failed to recruit appropriately in key areas. I know that we have all kinds of dreadful records going back to the Hughes reign that plague everything we do on the pitch; we haven't won in London since Bojan scored away at Spurs, we've only scored five goals away from home under Jones, three wins in however many games and so on. I'm quite aware that while I don't think that promotion is a condition of him keeping his job, there's got to be some material improvement on the pitch that yields points. People are not going to put up with seeing us barely having a shot on goal, never mind not scoring more than two goals in a game since midway through Hughes' tenure, for very much longer. Anybody who has paid to go down to London today to see us concede three goals (again) against dreadful opposition (again) is rightly going to be miffed. Having said all of that, I think that we have to look at Jones in a fundamentally different fashion to other recent managers. Last season, the club went all out for a promotion-or-bust campaign. We pinched the highest finishing manager available to us and spent £50,000,000 on a team of seasoned Championship experts who, on paper, should have walked the league. I didn't entirely agree with this approach - I think we would have pretty much guaranteed promotion had we nabbed Mick McCarthy instead of Rowett - but the intent was there. When he was sacked in January, it was a sign that this approach had failed completely, and that a new tack was required. Anything less than automatic promotion for Rowett would be a failure, but the appointment of Jones allowed us to reconfigure our aims with what was clearly a talented but dysfunctional squad that were ultimately a bunch of mid-table plodders. Jones was appointed as a man who had built a mini-empire at Luton, and transformed the club into a footballing machine. He wasn't brought in as a quick-fix like Rowett, he was brought in to overhaul things and rebuild on solid foundations. For all of the reasons outlined in the post above, this was not going to be a smooth rebuild. I think we can all accept that there is a general malaise at the club that goes beyond the current manager, a malaise that has been around for at least three or four years. Our neighbours in Burslem have had a similar problem, and have responded by sacking their manager every year, sometimes after as little as six months. It has got them precisely nowhere, because their issues lie elsewhere. Does it not send alarm bells ringing when the manager says that asides from James Justin, he was presented with a list of left backs who were, to a man, no better in the role than James McClean? That after we missed out on our first choice, the only other left back in the whole world was another 30-something Beswicks player? It's not a case of the manager not being backed to make signings, but of there clearly being an issues at the stage of identifying targets. This has been going on for years. Now that we have continued to have recruitment problems with a manager who played alongside Mark Cartwright at Brighton and apparently gets on quite well with him, somebody at the club seems to have decided that perhaps there is a problem with the process. I don't like the turn Mark Cartwright into a scapegoat, and none of us really knows the full ins and outs, but you would hope that his announced departure will signal a more robust player identification system and start to shake the malaise. This isn't something that is going to be solved by having a revolving door of managers. I don't really know, at this point, what supporters really want in a manager. Eight months ago (and twelve months ago, and 18 months ago) there was a very large portion of the support on this board who bemoaned the board's lack of imagination in appointing short-term, quick-fix British managers. There was a lot of acclaim for the idea of a Graham Potter or Daniel Farke type, who would be about more than just the instant, slightly ugly success that would inevitably come with Bruce, McCarthy et al. Now that we have such a long term project, an ever-increasing number of supporters are calling for the immediate appointment of a short-term, quick-fix British manager. The names that I've seen the most are Chris Hughton and you-know-who. We can't have it both ways. We've either got to be prepared to put up with a bumpy journey in the early stages, or be willing to risk another all-or-nothing Rowett season with no foundations and declining parachute payments. So there's my take on it. I think that Jones is a talented manager who has the potential to do very good things. I know that it hasn't clicked at Stoke yet, but I want to see him given a chance. I want to see the club sharpen its act up off the pitch, and for Jones to have the opportunity to properly mould the team in his image. I think that he can put together the sort of side that he built at Luton, but that it's going to take an almightly effort that will take more than just one summer. We will have to ride out the rough with the smooth. As for this season, we only won six out of our first 17 games in the promotion season. We had a spell where we lost four out of six games in October and November. It wasn't until we beat QPR at home at the end of November that we began to look like anything other than mid-table also-rans. Norwich had a dreadful time under their manager the season before last. It's not too late, yet. Best post in ages!
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