A Tad Confused

[citynickscfc]

Aug 7, 2019 22:48:26 GMT tony1234 said:

Lots of things look odd - my queries are below. Some may be explainable.

However, he now probably needs at least 5 games more grace to embed it all, and by game 10 for us to look functional, effective. I can only presume right now, that he sees a plan unfolding that many of us can't. But he does deserve the chance and support over this period.

1. Deciding on the diamond from January but not playing it for half a season to give the players chance to learn it
2. Deciding on a diamond but then buying a 9m target man like Vokes, but without the wingbacks to provide service
3. Spending our biggest transfer fee on a RB, who isn't really a RWB which is needed, and who replaces our most promising youngster in the starting X1
4. Not buying a LWB after Justin was a clear target and a specialist was deemed essential for the ability of the system to function.
5. Then persisting with the diamond when its clear we can't afford the (v. rare and expensive) full backs that provide 10 assists a season in the Championship. (Joe Bryan, Sessegnon, Henry at a push, ....) - given that it also serves to force out our most creative/productive player (Ince)
6. Buying only 1 good, but injury prone CAM in the pivotal attacking position 
7. ...And then getting rid of Bojan, who could have at least offered cover or a Plan B
8. Not - until today - using the loan market despite our financial/FFP position - which would have at least allowed us to focus our resources of key positions.
9. Needing a CDM but not going for any of Ajayi, Sawyers, Besic (loan) - despite them being affordable.
10. Getting rid of a few 30-somethings and then buying Stephen Ward
11. Getting rid of Cameron for good, and replacing him with the player at the same club was clearly less effective at that role.
12. Not giving full pre-seasons to the likes of Diouf etc, to make them more marketable - or potentially, get another chance.
13. Overall - creating a team where the starting 11 offers only about 20 assists/season based on records last year.
14. Getting in a striker with such a poor recent scoring record, and injury record, after presumably being sanctioned to buy a 12m-15m players - when there are countless of more reliable options "in between" (e.g. Nakki Wells, Vydra or loans) 
15. Once deciding the diamond was definitely the way forward, not looking at the foreign or loan markets for our key positional gaps (LB, CDM, fast striker) once it was clear there were no realistic options left in the Champs. 
16. Overall, at a time we are starting to become vulnerable to FFP, allowing the club to amass 34 first team players. Partly by not being more efficient with buying players that can play multiple positions.

Great post and really, really damning. 34 players? How the hell can we afford it? What the hell is the plan?

[riproaringagain]

Aug 7, 2019 19:21:39 GMT ChrisKamarasPerm said:

The whole transfer policy lurches from one disaster to the next.

You mean we have a policy, you’ve totally blown mind with that gem

[crapslinger]

Aug 8, 2019 0:26:34 GMT riproaringagain said:

Aug 7, 2019 19:21:39 GMT ChrisKamarasPerm said:

The whole transfer policy lurches from one disaster to the next.

You mean we have a policy, you’ve totally blown mind with that gem

Nothing wrong with the process

[philb]

Aug 7, 2019 18:47:12 GMT thehoof said:

Aug 7, 2019 18:37:47 GMT @iwebbyyy said:

His and Rowetts mannerisms and interviews are incomparable. What absolute bollocks. 

Jones says when we're shite, he makes it clear we aren't there yet, should we be? maybe. His interviews are very honest. 

Let's go back to Lambert, everything was terrific while we got relegated. 

He says when we’re shite but does nothing about it. Saturday he said that there was no energy for 60 minutes, and took 70 minutes to change things by which time we were 2-0 down.
He said that the Diamond was his preferred system, that we had been working on it all pre-season, yet it was impossible to notice anything other than no one seemed to know what their role was.
He says that Left Wing Back is a specialist position, but then tries to shoe horn a left winger into the position.
He says that these are my signings and that promotion is his aim - yet even his apostles say that he needs time; so who should we believe?

Spot on. What worried me the most was that he said we lacked energy on Saturday. It’s the first game of the season, if they haven’t got any any now god help us in 30 games time! He said he’d make a team that we were proud of on the pitch with his own players and one that would play exciting football with energy and enthusiasm. Jeez we’ve got a long, long way to go if that’s the case, with the squad he’s assembled. He needs to somehow pull a rabbit out of the hat to turn this around. I don’t think many fans think (unlike him and Coates) that promotion is a realistic aim this season. Obviously hope he proves us all wrong (god willing!) but can’t see it myself. Everything still seems flat.

[Deleted]

Aug 7, 2019 18:59:38 GMT sportsman said:

I think it's down to pressure to try get results, even though it obviously isn't working, though we did start to get tighter at the back at the end of last season.

I think stoke managers start with the intention to do this and that, then the pressure to get a result or not lose makes them go to the steady eddy type players who he can maybe trust a bit more.

I think this is spot on. Coupled with public pressure from above to achieve promotion it all smacks of grinding out enough results to go up at whatever cost. It’s all so short-sighted.

[followyoudown]

Aug 7, 2019 19:01:02 GMT wakeypotter said:

Aug 7, 2019 18:37:47 GMT @iwebbyyy said:

His and Rowetts mannerisms and interviews are incomparable. What absolute bollocks. 

Jones says when we're shite, he makes it clear we aren't there yet, should we be? maybe. His interviews are very honest. 

Let's go back to Lambert, everything was terrific while we got relegated. 

Lambert was unlucky we went down n the facts are there to prove it.

Lmao Lambert was unlucky, he got unlucky again with Ipswich getting relegated to Division 3 old money, he was not unlucky he was wank couldn't finish above Brighton or Huddersfield.

Fell out with so many players to prove his tough man act including most of the strikers at the club so we were left with Crouch, Campbell and Mame to keep us up. Jese and Saido were wasters but the smart move would have been to get safe before binning them both.

[stokienorthants]

Aug 7, 2019 19:46:16 GMT mrcoke said:

My take on the situation is the club has entered on a long term programme of rebuilding the squad. Being long term there is little they can say without cheesing off  many supporters who are too impatient to wait years.

Hughes built a huge squad of misfits that we are still getting rid of this week. If they had been replaced with a better squad of players things would not be so bad, but regretably Rowett pushed the boat out spending big on a bunch of players who have not only proved to be poor but have aggravated the position by being on long term expensive contracts. In between we signed N'Diaye and Bauer, just for good measure!

Jones will I believe be true to his word and build a young attacking side, but while the club is disposing of a score of failures he is having to make do with cheap older players as stop gaps for the next couple of seasons. Gradually Jones will develop players from the academy and bring in young talent, but not till we have got rid of the last Wimmer, Imbula, etc.

I know many will find this hard to bear, but it is a similar situation to the 1960s. Waddington set up a very productive youth development programme but it took many years to bear fruit, meanwhile we had to make do with a long string of mature players until enough young players were in the side to make it viable for Waddington to spend big on Greehoff and Ritchie to complete the side.

If the club tell people it is going to take years to fix things you can imagine the negative reaction. I posted recently that when Docherty took over at United he told the Board that they might have to be relegated while he rebuilt the team. The ManU board stuck with him, but obviously nothing was said publicly. (It's stated in Docherty's autobiography.)

The club has a massive wage bill that it is slowly whittling down. Until players that are not being used have all gone, and some of those Jones is having to use but not suitable to Jones preferred system have also gone, Jones is not going to make big outlays on the best players available to him. Unfortunately we do not have clubs queuing up to buy the players Jones doesn't want, so we will have to mark time till they are gone.

Unlike Jones and the current incumbent and his paymasters Waddington was very prudent and whilst he did spend big on players such as Greenhoff and Hudson he bought Ritchie back from Sheffield Wednesday for £25k!

[Deleted]

Aug 8, 2019 7:04:37 GMT followyoudown said:

Aug 7, 2019 19:01:02 GMT wakeypotter said:

 Jese and Saido were wasters but the smart move would have been to get safe before binning them both.

Just what did the pair of them do in the months before to suggest they would made us safe? There's nothing whatsoever that connected those two with smart - except the goal they both in the Arsenal game.

[followyoudown]

Aug 8, 2019 7:31:15 GMT @kpsja said:

Aug 8, 2019 7:04:37 GMT followyoudown said:

 Jese and Saido were wasters but the smart move would have been to get safe before binning them both.

Just what did the pair of them do in the months before to suggest they would made us safe? There's nothing whatsoever that connected those two with smart - except the goal they both in the Arsenal game.

Jese won the penalty that he would have scored that would have won us the Brighton game, one of the most useless loan signings in our history yet those two goals would have given us 6 points and.......

The alternatives we had were Crouch who we couldn't get the service too, Campbell who was too inexperienced and Mame who had spent much of the season playing right back and was then expected to score the goals to keep us up.

[CBUFAWKIPWH]

Aug 7, 2019 19:41:13 GMT stokebloke said:

He's a fraud and will be gone by xmas

"Fraud" - the random term of abuse de jour...

He's not a fraud...he's a fully qualified coach with a successful track record in league management.

Try "inexperienced at this level and struggling with a major rebuild of a club in decline before he got here". It bears some relation to the facts. Not that that really matters of course...

[Deleted]

Aug 8, 2019 8:49:05 GMT CBUFAWKIPWH said:

Aug 7, 2019 19:41:13 GMT stokebloke said:

He's a fraud and will be gone by xmas

"Fraud" - the random term of abuse de jour...

He's not a fraud...he's a fully qualified coach with a successful track record in league management.

Try "inexperienced at this level and struggling with a major rebuild of a club in decline before he got here". It bears some relation to the facts. Not that that really matters of course...

Don't forget the good quality snake oil he sells 

GD