|
|
Post by Gods on Aug 7, 2019 19:36:57 GMT
I wish he'd soft pedal on the God stuff, makes me think he's a bit crackers, I believe the great TP was a church goer but he didn't visit it on anyone in his line of sight.
|
|
|
|
Post by stokebloke on Aug 7, 2019 19:41:13 GMT
He's a fraud and will be gone by xmas
|
|
|
|
Post by jwhpotter on Aug 7, 2019 19:43:38 GMT
So now I guess the strikers pecking order now is:
Vokes
Hogan
Afobe
Gregory
Campbell
Not good for the young lad. There’s no way he’s staying at Stoke this season now. Worse still we are yet to shift Wimmer, Imbula, Ndiaye, Diouf & Indi
|
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Aug 7, 2019 19:46:16 GMT
My take on the situation is the club has entered on a long term programme of rebuilding the squad. Being long term there is little they can say without cheesing off many supporters who are too impatient to wait years.
Hughes built a huge squad of misfits that we are still getting rid of this week. If they had been replaced with a better squad of players things would not be so bad, but regretably Rowett pushed the boat out spending big on a bunch of players who have not only proved to be poor but have aggravated the position by being on long term expensive contracts. In between we signed N'Diaye and Bauer, just for good measure!
Jones will I believe be true to his word and build a young attacking side, but while the club is disposing of a score of failures he is having to make do with cheap older players as stop gaps for the next couple of seasons. Gradually Jones will develop players from the academy and bring in young talent, but not till we have got rid of the last Wimmer, Imbula, etc.
I know many will find this hard to bear, but it is a similar situation to the 1960s. Waddington set up a very productive youth development programme but it took many years to bear fruit, meanwhile we had to make do with a long string of mature players until enough young players were in the side to make it viable for Waddington to spend big on Greehoff and Ritchie to complete the side.
If the club tell people it is going to take years to fix things you can imagine the negative reaction. I posted recently that when Docherty took over at United he told the Board that they might have to be relegated while he rebuilt the team. The ManU board stuck with him, but obviously nothing was said publicly. (It's stated in Docherty's autobiography.)
The club has a massive wage bill that it is slowly whittling down. Until players that are not being used have all gone, and some of those Jones is having to use but not suitable to Jones preferred system have also gone, Jones is not going to make big outlays on the best players available to him. Unfortunately we do not have clubs queuing up to buy the players Jones doesn't want, so we will have to mark time till they are gone.
|
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 7, 2019 19:56:20 GMT
Maybe he does need more time to implement everything. A standard club will need a transitional period and with the mess we are in, well we are anything but standard. There does have to be a feeling of progression though, these next 5 games are fucking massive for Jones and the club. I'm terrified personally. I liked him when he first came here, and kind of like that he has a defined system of playing. But as others have said he hasn't recruited for that system, but remains determined to play it! I have no more faith in him than Rowett, if I'm honest. |
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 7, 2019 19:58:20 GMT
So now I guess the strikers pecking order now is: Vokes Hogan Afobe Gregory Campbell Not good for the young lad. There’s no way he’s staying at Stoke this season now. Worse still we are yet to shift Wimmer, Imbula, Ndiaye, Diouf & Indi Which is wank because he's a bit different to the other strikers. |
|
|
|
Post by jwhpotter on Aug 7, 2019 20:05:43 GMT
So now I guess the strikers pecking order now is: Vokes Hogan Afobe Gregory Campbell Not good for the young lad. There’s no way he’s staying at Stoke this season now. Worse still we are yet to shift Wimmer, Imbula, Ndiaye, Diouf & Indi Which is wank because he's a bit different to the other strikers. Yep - find it very bizarre, really hope I’m wrong but got a feeling Hogan will be yet another flop. Campbell is young, fit and hungry. Jones clearly doesn’t fancy him. MASSIVE call by Jones if Campbell does go, if it doesn’t work fans will crucify him |
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 7, 2019 20:07:50 GMT
Which is wank because he's a bit different to the other strikers. Yep - find it very bizarre, really hope I’m wrong but got a feeling Hogan will be yet another flop. Campbell is young, fit and hungry. Jones clearly doesn’t fancy him. MASSIVE call by Jones if Campbell does go, if it doesn’t work fans will crucify him Jones is starting to get on my tits. Trouble is, who else would come here? |
|
|
|
Post by smallthorner on Aug 7, 2019 20:11:55 GMT
Maybe he does need more time to implement everything. A standard club will need a transitional period and with the mess we are in, well we are anything but standard. There does have to be a feeling of progression though, these next 5 games are fucking massive for Jones and the club. I'm terrified personally. I liked him when he first came here, and kind of like that he has a defined system of playing. But as others have said he hasn't recruited for that system, but remains determined to play it! I have no more faith in him than Rowett, if I'm honest. Think he will play 352 Saturday and dress it up as a diamond. 😊 |
|
|
|
Post by questionable on Aug 7, 2019 20:12:24 GMT
Yet another buffoon talking through his arse, he’ll be gone soon without doubt.
|
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 7, 2019 20:18:56 GMT
I liked him when he first came here, and kind of like that he has a defined system of playing. But as others have said he hasn't recruited for that system, but remains determined to play it! I have no more faith in him than Rowett, if I'm honest. Think he will play 352 Saturday and dress it up as a diamond. 😊 At least we won with it once! 😁 |
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 7, 2019 20:25:50 GMT
It's the second options that seem to be so horrific. You really do feel that whatever went on in Cartwright's department it was fucking amateur bastard hour. We go from Justin to James McClean out of position, Gayle to Hogan. It's the equivalent of being promised a Sunday morning in bed having your root being dealt with and when that falls through offering you an 8 hour shift down the pit as compensation.
It just sends out a whole sense of incompetence and the circus being in town.
|
|
|
|
Post by smallthorner on Aug 7, 2019 20:26:48 GMT
Think he will play 352 Saturday and dress it up as a diamond. 😊 At least we won with it once! 😁 Keep the faith. On a serious note. It would be the only system to suit Little Joe. In my humble opinion.😉 Bath Lindsay BMI Smith rwb Lucas Lwb Little Joe Holding Etebo Cozy Powell Ince Gregory Wots reckon trickster? |
|
|
|
Post by questionable on Aug 7, 2019 20:28:39 GMT
Yep - find it very bizarre, really hope I’m wrong but got a feeling Hogan will be yet another flop. Campbell is young, fit and hungry. Jones clearly doesn’t fancy him. MASSIVE call by Jones if Campbell does go, if it doesn’t work fans will crucify him Jones is starting to get on my tits. Trouble is, who else would come here? Lambert |
|
|
|
Post by smallthorner on Aug 7, 2019 20:30:10 GMT
Yep - find it very bizarre, really hope I’m wrong but got a feeling Hogan will be yet another flop. Campbell is young, fit and hungry. Jones clearly doesn’t fancy him. MASSIVE call by Jones if Campbell does go, if it doesn’t work fans will crucify him Jones is starting to get on my tits. Trouble is, who else would come here? John Rudge |
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Aug 7, 2019 20:31:06 GMT
So now I guess the strikers pecking order now is: Vokes Hogan Afobe Gregory Campbell Not good for the young lad. There’s no way he’s staying at Stoke this season now. Worse still we are yet to shift Wimmer, Imbula, Ndiaye, Diouf & Indi They used to say "you're only as good as your last game". It'll be interesting to see who doesn't make the bench on Saturday. My view is: Vokes (Gregory cover) with Hogan (Afobe cover)
with Campbell as the impact sub as he reportedly doesn't last the pace. Why I don't know. (Fitness, stamina, concentration, will power???) |
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 7, 2019 20:32:39 GMT
At least we won with it once! 😁 Keep the faith. On a serious note. It would be the only system to suit Little Joe. In my humble opinion.😉 Bath Lindsay BMI Smith rwb Lucas Lwb Little Joe Holding Etebo Cozy Powell Ince Gregory Wots reckon trickster? Better than the side that lost on Saturday. It will be shot down by 90% of Oaties, but I have lost count of the players deemed shit on here, that would cause a mass wank if we signed them, now, so I will take no notice! 😁 |
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 7, 2019 20:33:06 GMT
Jones is starting to get on my tits. Trouble is, who else would come here? Lambert Won one more promotion.... 😂 To the Premier league. |
|
|
|
Post by Godo on Aug 7, 2019 20:43:03 GMT
I was extremely confused watching that mess on Saturday. The players seemed to have no idea where they were supposed to be passing the ball, there was no pattern, no movement or pressing off the ball and massive holes. The 2 forwards never for a second looked like a pair, never playing off each and were 2 static statues. What does Hogan add that we haven't already got when the glaring shortcomings in the squad haven't been addressed. I want Mr Jones to succeed but that was very poor on Saturday and we need something like a 4141 with the players we have with wingers, (Ince + Verlinden or McClean) to provide width and service. Who plays left back, where.has Davies gone, why do we need Izzy Brown??? Yes it's all very confusing.
|
|
|
|
Post by s8to on Aug 7, 2019 20:46:57 GMT
My take on the situation is the club has entered on a long term programme of rebuilding the squad. Being long term there is little they can say without cheesing off many supporters who are too impatient to wait years. Hughes built a huge squad of misfits that we are still getting rid of this week. If they had been replaced with a better squad of players things would not be so bad, but regretably Rowett pushed the boat out spending big on a bunch of players who have not only proved to be poor but have aggravated the position by being on long term expensive contracts. In between we signed N'Diaye and Bauer, just for good measure! Jones will I believe be true to his word and build a young attacking side, but while the club is disposing of a score of failures he is having to make do with cheap older players as stop gaps for the next couple of seasons. Gradually Jones will develop players from the academy and bring in young talent, but not till we have got rid of the last Wimmer, Imbula, etc. I know many will find this hard to bear, but it is a similar situation to the 1960s. Waddington set up a very productive youth development programme but it took many years to bear fruit, meanwhile we had to make do with a long string of mature players until enough young players were in the side to make it viable for Waddington to spend big on Greehoff and Ritchie to complete the side. If the club tell people it is going to take years to fix things you can imagine the negative reaction. I posted recently that when Docherty took over at United he told the Board that they might have to be relegated while he rebuilt the team. The ManU board stuck with him, but obviously nothing was said publicly. (It's stated in Docherty's autobiography.) The club has a massive wage bill that it is slowly whittling down. Until players that are not being used have all gone, and some of those Jones is having to use but not suitable to Jones preferred system have also gone, Jones is not going to make big outlays on the best players available to him. Unfortunately we do not have clubs queuing up to buy the players Jones doesn't want, so we will have to mark time till they are gone. All well and good in which case why not fess up then? Decide that’s it and publicise this. yes you take some stick but once we are all on board away we go... BUT.. instead.. we were told we were getting better players in than we had.. in most cases very questionable.. we were told most if not all of the business would be done by 26th June... err was never gonna happen.. finally we would recruit young, hungry athletic players to murder teams with the fabled diamond! Well from what we know age, stats and what we saw Saturday that is at best complete bollocks! Moreover we seem to doing some other plan now.. Time will tell whether we have an yes man of a Manager who is well out of his depth or indeed he truly can work miracles, but anyone thinking after his tenure (with the fan base) after the debacle at the end of last season is a long one is crackers. Commercial pressures beyond what we are seeing now will really bite hard and that will be that.. which makes me wonder whether we are indeed edging our bets here and assembling a squad to smash league 1 if this season goes tits up! Just a thought! |
|
|
|
Post by danceswithclams on Aug 7, 2019 20:47:01 GMT
Saw them supporting World of Twist in the early 90s. Grea... I'm fucking bored of this now. You do the rest |
|
|
|
Post by thehoof on Aug 7, 2019 21:15:02 GMT
At least we won with it once! 😁 Keep the faith. On a serious note. It would be the only system to suit Little Joe. In my humble opinion.😉 Bath Lindsay BMI Smith rwb Lucas Lwb Little Joe Holding Etebo Cozy Powell Ince Gregory Wots reckon trickster? Forgive my ignorance- who is Lucas(LWB) is it the ginger ninja ( our leading scorer?) |
|
|
|
Post by smallthorner on Aug 7, 2019 21:21:11 GMT
Keep the faith. On a serious note. It would be the only system to suit Little Joe. In my humble opinion.😉 Bath Lindsay BMI Smith rwb Lucas Lwb Little Joe Holding Etebo Cozy Powell Ince Gregory Wots reckon trickster? Forgive my ignorance- who is Lucas(LWB) is it the ginger ninja ( our leading scorer?) Very sorry. Yes. I meant Ginger Clucas. I actually think he will be a star for us this season. Assuming some bugger brings some shape to the team. Rhombus anybody? |
|
|
|
Post by thehoof on Aug 7, 2019 21:24:09 GMT
Forgive my ignorance- who is Lucas(LWB) is it the ginger ninja ( our leading scorer?) Very sorry. Yes. I meant Ginger Clucas. I actually think he will be a star for us this season. Assuming some bugger brings some shape to the team. Rhombus anybody? Seen worse- although I don’t see BMI as being motivated, so Collins, Baath, Lindsay. |
|
|
|
Post by Bojan Mackey on Aug 7, 2019 21:34:06 GMT
Plays fast energetic football and then signs Bulk Hogan He will be one of the quickest players at the club That’s not difficult, Peter Kay could probably finish at least 3rd in our bleep test. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 22:05:44 GMT
On top of that, the signings are made by a recruitment team, they arnt identified directly by the manager. As in pretty much every other club these days. So you're saying that the players he's worked with before and who signed with us this summer weren't identified by the manager...I can't remember the last time anyone said anything so stupid! |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 22:13:12 GMT
My take on the situation is the club has entered on a long term programme of rebuilding the squad. Being long term there is little they can say without cheesing off many supporters who are too impatient to wait years. So...that's why Peter Coates went out last week and demanded promotion? He could have said, let's be patient and reestablish us first, improve on last season's 16th, and then we can start thinking about a better life. We've got to look at the bigger picture and plan long term. It might have disappointed the odd fanatic, but I think most would have understood. But he didn't say that. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 22:22:19 GMT
I wish he'd soft pedal on the God stuff, makes me think he's a bit crackers, I believe the great TP was a church goer but he didn't visit it on anyone in his line of sight. Apart from telling us every interview that he got down on his knees at night and in his prayers thanked God for allowing him to manage Stoke... |
|
|
|
Post by tony1234 on Aug 7, 2019 22:48:26 GMT
Lots of things look odd - my queries are below. Some may be explainable.
However, he now probably needs at least 5 games more grace to embed it all, and by game 10 for us to look functional, effective. I can only presume right now, that he sees a plan unfolding that many of us can't. But he does deserve the chance and support over this period.
1. Deciding on the diamond from January but not playing it for half a season to give the players chance to learn it
2. Deciding on a diamond but then buying a 9m target man like Vokes, but without the wingbacks to provide service
3. Spending our biggest transfer fee on a RB, who isn't really a RWB which is needed, and who replaces our most promising youngster in the starting X1
4. Not buying a LWB after Justin was a clear target and a specialist was deemed essential for the ability of the system to function.
5. Then persisting with the diamond when its clear we can't afford the (v. rare and expensive) full backs that provide 10 assists a season in the Championship. (Joe Bryan, Sessegnon, Henry at a push, ....) - given that it also serves to force out our most creative/productive player (Ince)
6. Buying only 1 good, but injury prone CAM in the pivotal attacking position
7. ...And then getting rid of Bojan, who could have at least offered cover or a Plan B
8. Not - until today - using the loan market despite our financial/FFP position - which would have at least allowed us to focus our resources of key positions.
9. Needing a CDM but not going for any of Ajayi, Sawyers, Besic (loan) - despite them being affordable.
10. Getting rid of a few 30-somethings and then buying Stephen Ward
11. Getting rid of Cameron for good, and replacing him with the player at the same club was clearly less effective at that role.
12. Not giving full pre-seasons to the likes of Diouf etc, to make them more marketable - or potentially, get another chance.
13. Overall - creating a team where the starting 11 offers only about 20 assists/season based on records last year.
14. Getting in a striker with such a poor recent scoring record, and injury record, after presumably being sanctioned to buy a 12m-15m players - when there are countless of more reliable options "in between" (e.g. Nakki Wells, Vydra or loans)
15. Once deciding the diamond was definitely the way forward, not looking at the foreign or loan markets for our key positional gaps (LB, CDM, fast striker) once it was clear there were no realistic options left in the Champs.
16. Overall, at a time we are starting to become vulnerable to FFP, allowing the club to amass 34 first team players. Partly by not being more efficient with buying players that can play multiple positions.
|
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Aug 7, 2019 23:00:07 GMT
Don’t agree at all. Jones is a big boy and responsible for his own mistakes (or successes). Nobody else is picking the team or telling them how to play -and to be fair if things go wrong I don’t think he will be seeking to hide behind conspiracy theories or other random excuses. So you can’t see what I’m saying happening? Even tho it’s on the verge of it? Our club has been a shit show for 3 years, and we expect every manager to make a few signings and turn it all around? On top of that, the signings are made by a recruitment team, they arnt identified directly by the manager. As in pretty much every other club these days. I would be prepared to bet large sums that since he arrived no player has been signed without the hundred per cent approval of the manager. Stop trying to look for complications it’s just down to wether him and the coaching team are good enough at what they do. |
|
