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Post by musik on Jan 10, 2023 8:29:41 GMT
Swedish news yesterday: only 10 percent of all plastic properly thrown at a recycle station here in Sweden are actually recycled. They burn the other 90 percent in a dangerous way.
Why? It's a systematic error, they say. Much of the plastic thrown isn't hard plastic but soft plastic that should have been put in our ordinary garbage instead. And much of the plastic thrown are so called combo containers with the paper label or some metallic part still attached to it. They don't separate those things, just burn it all.
Are these problems solved differently in the UK?
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Post by riverman on Jan 10, 2023 8:32:44 GMT
🎶 There may be trouble ahead 🎶
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jan 10, 2023 9:00:46 GMT
A few weeks back I went with a friend of mine to Rotterdam for the weekend. He insisted that he drive the 1.5 hour journey in his new electric Porsche. I'd never been in an electric car so was quite interested to see how it all works. I spent the now 2.5 hour journey each way listening to him tell me about how great the app was for finding the 'fastest' charger stations, him asking me questions about how I like his electric car, and the extra hour each way waiting for his car to charge and wasting money on motorway food. All in all I was less than impressed as my car would have got me there and back on half a tank and half the time. People who buy electric cars are a bit like Brexit voters. Always looking for reaffirmation that they made a good decision and never able to admit that they made the wrong choice. On the whole full EV cars are a massive con and most people have fallen for them hook, line and sinker without actually stopping and thinking about the reality of what it takes to own one. They have their uses in nuance situations but in the main they are useless and not a realistic alternative to traditional cars. I have a self charge hybrid, best of both worlds as I get full EV mode at times with the backup that I still have an engine and fuel tank to take me home. With a fantastic MPG to go along with it. Out of interest SJW what mpg do you get from your hybrid? Few years ago I had a ride in a taxi which was a Toyota Prius hybrid and was chatting to the driver who said he got around 45 mpg. That wasn’t great even then, my Skoda Octavia TDi was doing over 50mpg and these days even petrol cars can give you high 40s.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jan 10, 2023 9:36:37 GMT
Interesting reads. I know a number of people who have electric vehicles and love them, saved themselves a fortune in fuel bills (until energy prices went through the roof) and will never go back to fossil fuel burners.
Two things jump out to me about the whole thing.
First, most car journeys are resoundingly not 250 mile journeys, they're between five and ten miles and therefore entirely suitable for EVs. Longer journeys do need more consideration but that will improve as vehicle range continues to improve.
Second, the entirely valid point about chargepoints not being widely available enough nor maintained. The reason for this is rooted firmly in the fact that the political ideology of the last forty years has been to assume that the market will solve everything, so leave it alone. This is, in my opinion, an obvious fallacy, albeit an attractive one since it means governments can essentially take a step back and say "not our problem, gov". However, it inevitably creates the situation we have now across several privatised industries where companies seek profits first (in the EV industry from high EV chargepoint electricity prices) but keep costs as low as possible (by having poor maintenance regimes).
Instead, for such crucial areas such as this (plus energy, water, railways) it should be the government which has a national strategy and funding in place to make this switchover as painless as possible. You can't keep abdicating responsibility for ensuring that the country works as best it can for its people, rather than individual companies, by simply hoping that the success of those companies, whose sole interest is profit lest we forget, also miraculously aligns with what works for people.
As a third point, while I'm typing, EVs may be expensive and not provide the range compared to fossil fuel powered cars, but if we do want to try to avoid catastrophic climate change, they're all we have for the next thirty years or so until (if) hydrogen technology is finally workable, if it ever is. We can't afford to wait.
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Post by superjw on Jan 10, 2023 9:58:46 GMT
On the whole full EV cars are a massive con and most people have fallen for them hook, line and sinker without actually stopping and thinking about the reality of what it takes to own one. They have their uses in nuance situations but in the main they are useless and not a realistic alternative to traditional cars. I have a self charge hybrid, best of both worlds as I get full EV mode at times with the backup that I still have an engine and fuel tank to take me home. With a fantastic MPG to go along with it. Out of interest SJW what mpg do you get from your hybrid? Few years ago I had a ride in a taxi which was a Toyota Prius hybrid and was chatting to the driver who said he got around 45 mpg. That wasn’t great even then, my Skoda Octavia TDi was doing over 50mpg and these days even petrol cars can give you high 40s. I have a Toyota Auris hybrid (think it's 2017/18) so used the same power train as the Prius. Checked it just and I am averaging 68 mpg. It was much higher than that but winter driving takes a good chunk out of my mileage as the engine kicks in more often to keep it warm. Summertime mpg is well into the mid 70s It's all down to how these cars are driven, you can't drive these like you have stolen them. Its all about awareness of acceleration and having more foresight on the road, no harsh braking etc. If I get in and boot it, it just becomes a 1.8 petrol car and drinks fuel like one!
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Post by superjw on Jan 10, 2023 10:10:44 GMT
Interesting reads. I know a number of people who have electric vehicles and love them, saved themselves a fortune in fuel bills (until energy prices went through the roof) and will never go back to fossil fuel burners. Two things jump out to me about the whole thing. First, most car journeys are resoundingly not 250 mile journeys, they're between five and ten miles and therefore entirely suitable for EVs. Longer journeys do need more consideration but that will improve as vehicle range continues to improve. Second, the entirely valid point about chargepoints not being widely available enough nor maintained. The reason for this is rooted firmly in the fact that the political ideology of the last forty years has been to assume that the market will solve everything, so leave it alone. This is, in my opinion, an obvious fallacy, albeit an attractive one since it means governments can essentially take a step back and say "not our problem, gov". However, it inevitably creates the situation we have now across several privatised industries where companies seek profits first (in the EV industry from high EV chargepoint electricity prices) but keep costs as low as possible (by having poor maintenance regimes). Instead, for such crucial areas such as this (plus energy, water, railways) it should be the government which has a national strategy and funding in place to make this switchover as painless as possible. You can't keep abdicating responsibility for ensuring that the country works as best it can for its people, rather than individual companies, by simply hoping that the success of those companies, whose sole interest is profit lest we forget, also miraculously aligns with what works for people. As a third point, while I'm typing, EVs may be expensive and not provide the range compared to fossil fuel powered cars, but if we do want to try to avoid catastrophic climate change, they're all we have for the next thirty years or so until (if) hydrogen technology is finally workable, if it ever is. We can't afford to wait. I wont go anywhere near a full EV car until the government fixes the infrastructure problem. It was obvious years ago but nobody has done anything about it at all. My hybrid is as far as I will go, Toyota have a good plug in hybrid option too. To be honest I'm still not convinced by full EVs and whether they are any better environmentally than standard fuel cars. If we had a magic wand and could replace every car on the planet with electric, we would need so many resources for batteries, chargers and the such like that we would need to decimate huge amounts of land to do all of the mining needed. The world put their money on the wrong technology, Hydrogen has been around for years but never got the investment it needed. If it had, I reckon it would be just as popular if not more so than EVs
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 10, 2023 11:44:10 GMT
Swedish news yesterday: only 10 percent of all plastic properly thrown at a recycle station here in Sweden are actually recycled. They burn the other 90 percent in a dangerous way. Why? It's a systematic error, they say. Much of the plastic thrown isn't hard plastic but soft plastic that should have been put in our ordinary garbage instead. And much of the plastic thrown are so called combo containers with the paper label or some metallic part still attached to it. They don't separate those things, just burn it all. Are these problems solved differently in the UK? According to this April 2021 Greenpeace article it's just 10% UK plastic is recycled, a lot is exported. www.greenpeace.org.uk/news/plastic-recycling-export-incineration/I've seen attendants at recycle centres dump plastic in the land fill/ incineration skips and assumed they know what they are doing.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jan 10, 2023 12:41:04 GMT
Interesting reads. I know a number of people who have electric vehicles and love them, saved themselves a fortune in fuel bills (until energy prices went through the roof) and will never go back to fossil fuel burners. Two things jump out to me about the whole thing. First, most car journeys are resoundingly not 250 mile journeys, they're between five and ten miles and therefore entirely suitable for EVs. Longer journeys do need more consideration but that will improve as vehicle range continues to improve. Second, the entirely valid point about chargepoints not being widely available enough nor maintained. The reason for this is rooted firmly in the fact that the political ideology of the last forty years has been to assume that the market will solve everything, so leave it alone. This is, in my opinion, an obvious fallacy, albeit an attractive one since it means governments can essentially take a step back and say "not our problem, gov". However, it inevitably creates the situation we have now across several privatised industries where companies seek profits first (in the EV industry from high EV chargepoint electricity prices) but keep costs as low as possible (by having poor maintenance regimes). Instead, for such crucial areas such as this (plus energy, water, railways) it should be the government which has a national strategy and funding in place to make this switchover as painless as possible. You can't keep abdicating responsibility for ensuring that the country works as best it can for its people, rather than individual companies, by simply hoping that the success of those companies, whose sole interest is profit lest we forget, also miraculously aligns with what works for people. As a third point, while I'm typing, EVs may be expensive and not provide the range compared to fossil fuel powered cars, but if we do want to try to avoid catastrophic climate change, they're all we have for the next thirty years or so until (if) hydrogen technology is finally workable, if it ever is. We can't afford to wait. I wont go anywhere near a full EV car until the government fixes the infrastructure problem. It was obvious years ago but nobody has done anything about it at all. My hybrid is as far as I will go, Toyota have a good plug in hybrid option too. To be honest I'm still not convinced by full EVs and whether they are any better environmentally than standard fuel cars. If we had a magic wand and could replace every car on the planet with electric, we would need so many resources for batteries, chargers and the such like that we would need to decimate huge amounts of land to do all of the mining needed. The world put their money on the wrong technology, Hydrogen has been around for years but never got the investment it needed. If it had, I reckon it would be just as popular if not more so than EVs The government won't fix the infrastructure problem, for the reasons above. Their whole approach is to let the market take over. By way of contrast see Norway for example, whose government has done things very differently and now has about 20% of the country's entire fleet electric: europe.autonews.com/automakers/evs-now-make-20-norways-cars
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Post by musik on Jan 10, 2023 15:11:42 GMT
Swedish news yesterday: only 10 percent of all plastic properly thrown at a recycle station here in Sweden are actually recycled. They burn the other 90 percent in a dangerous way. Why? It's a systematic error, they say. Much of the plastic thrown isn't hard plastic but soft plastic that should have been put in our ordinary garbage instead. And much of the plastic thrown are so called combo containers with the paper label or some metallic part still attached to it. They don't separate those things, just burn it all. Are these problems solved differently in the UK? According to this April 2021 Greenpeace article it's just 10% UK plastic is recycled, a lot is exported. www.greenpeace.org.uk/news/plastic-recycling-export-incineration/I've seen attendants at recycle centres dump plastic in the land fill/ incineration skips and assumed they know what they are doing. Sweden don't export plastic as far as I know. Who would that be to?🤔 At our recycle centers they don't burn things, it's at another location closed to the public. There are several places here: 1) the garbage room (actually opposite to the laundry room 🧺). Here we throw bad expired food and cardboard boxes plus a mix of papers and a certain type of envelopes. 2) the recycle containers (mine is about 400 meters from here). Here we bring plastic, metal, coloured and transparent glass and cardboard boxes. Some have a container for clothings, mine hasn't. 3) the recycle center which is 6 km from here. Here we bring paint and other nasty liquids, furniture (which in some cases can be re-used), metal, cardboard boxes, paper, dish washers and washing machines, batteries and light bulbs. 4) the grocery store, where we can leave small electronic equipment like pocket calculators, used deo spray and light bulbs. 5) the recycle car, which stops at some scheduled times, for instance 200 meters from me. Here we can leave light bulbs, batteries, small and medium size electronics. 6) the recycle boat, which comes perhaps twice a year, and it's 3 km from me. Here we can leave nasty liquids, large electronics, and most other things. I have never used it. 7) the recycle facility/the end station, which is closed to the public. Here they burn what comes from the garbage rooms. They also recycle things (in the best case scenario) from the recycle containers and others in the list above.
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Post by Northy on Jan 10, 2023 15:30:27 GMT
A cautionary story I read earlier today…. 𝐈𝐧𝐭𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐬𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐚𝐫𝐭𝐢𝐜𝐥𝐞 𝐢𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐓𝐢𝐦𝐞𝐬 𝐚𝐛𝐨𝐮𝐭 𝐞𝐥𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐫𝐢𝐜 𝐜𝐚𝐫𝐬 𝐟𝐫𝐨𝐦 𝐆𝐢𝐥𝐞𝐬 𝐂𝐨𝐫𝐞𝐧 Why I’ve pulled the plug on my electric car As I watch my family strike out on foot across the fields into driving rain and gathering darkness, my wife holding each child’s hand, our new year plans in ruins, while I do what I can to make our dead car safe before abandoning it a mile short of home, full of luggage on a country lane, it occurs to me not for the first time that if we are going to save the planet we will have to find another way. Because electric cars are not the answer. I can’t even roll it to a safer spot because it can’t be put in neutral. For when an electric car dies, it dies hard. And then lies there as big and grey and not-going-anywhere as the poacher-slain bull elephant I once saw rotting by a roadside in northern Kenya. Just a bit less smelly. Two out of three roadside chargers are broken or busy at any one time Not that this is unusual. Since I bought my eco dream car in late 2020, in a deluded Thunbergian frenzy, it has spent more time off the road than on it, beached at the dealership for months at a time on account of innumerable electrical calamities, while I galumph around in the big diesel “courtesy cars” they send me under the terms of the warranty. But this time I don’t want one. And I don’t want my own car back either. I have asked the guys who sold it to me to sell it again, as soon as it is fixed, to the first mug who walks into the shop. Because I am going back to petrol while there is still time. And if the government really does ban new wet fuel cars after 2030, then we will eventually have to go back to horses. Because the electric vehicle industry is no readier to get a family home from Cornwall at Christmas time (as I was trying to do) than it is to fly us all to Jupiter. The cars are useless, the infrastructure is not there and you’re honestly better off walking. Even on the really long journeys. In fact, especially on the long journeys. The short ones they can just about manage. It’s no wonder Tesla shares are down 71 per cent. It’s all a huge fraud. And, for me, it’s over. Yet the new owner of my “preloved” premium electric vehicle, fired with a messianic desire to make a better world for his children, will not know this. He will be delighted with his purchase and overjoyed to find there are still six months of warranty left, little suspecting that once that has expired — and with it the free repairs and replacement cars for those long spells off road — he will be functionally carless. He will be over the moon to learn that it has “a range of up to 292 miles”. No need to tell him what that really means is “220 miles”. Why electric carmakers are allowed to tell these lies is a mystery to me. As it soon will be to him. Although for the first few days he won’t worry especially. He’ll think he can just nip into a fuel station and charge it up again. Ho ho ho. No need to tell him that two out of three roadside chargers in this country are broken or busy at any one time. Or that the built-in “find my nearest charge point” function doesn’t work, has never worked, and isn’t meant to work. Or that apps like Zap-Map don’t work either because the chargers they send you to are always either busy or broken or require a membership card you don’t have or an app you can’t download because there’s no 5G here, in the middle of nowhere, where you will now probably die. Or that the Society of Motor Manufacturers said this week that only 23 new chargers are being installed nationwide each day, of the 100 per day that were promised (as a proud early adopter, I told myself that charging would become easier as the network grew, but it hasn’t grown, while the number of e-drivers has tripled, so it’s actually harder now than it was two years ago). There are, of course, plus sides to electric ownership. Such as the camaraderie when we encounter each other, tired and weeping at yet another service station with only two chargers, one of which still has the “this fault has been reported” sign on it from when you were here last August, and the other is of the measly 3kWh variety, which means you will have to spend the night in a Travelodge while your stupid drum lazily inhales enough juice to get home. Together, in the benighted charging zone, we leccy drivers laugh about what fools we are and drool over the diesel hatchbacks nonchalantly filling up across the way (“imagine getting to a fuel station and knowing for sure you will be able to refuel!”) and talk in the hour-long queue at Exeter services about the petrol car we will buy as soon as we get home. We filled up there last week on the way back from Cornwall, adding two hours to our four-hour journey, by which time Esther wasn’t speaking to me. She’s been telling me to get rid of the iPace since it ruined last summer’s holidays in both Wales and Devon (“If you won’t let us fly any more, at least buy a car that can get us to the places we’re still allowed to go!”). But I kept begging her to give me one last chance, as if I’d refused to give up a mistress, rather than a dull family car. Until this time, a couple of miles from home, when a message flashed up on the dash: “Assisted braking not available — proceed with caution.” Then: “Steering control unavailable.” And then, as I inched off the dual carriageway at our turnoff, begging it to make the last mile, children weeping at the scary noises coming from both car and father: “Gearbox fault detected.” CLUNK. WHIRRR. CRACK. And dead. Nothing. Poached elephant. I called Jaguar Assist (there is a button in the roof that does it directly — most useful feature on the car) who told me they could have a mechanic there in four hours (who would laugh and say, “Can’t help you, pal. You’ve got a software issue there. I’m just a car mechanic. And this isn’t a car, it’s a laptop on wheels.”) So Esther and the kids headed for home across the sleety wastes, a vision of post-apocalyptic misery like something out of Cormac McCarthy, while I saw out 2022 waiting for a tow-truck. Again. But don’t let that put you off. I see in the paper that electric car sales are at record levels and production is struggling to keep up with demand. So why not buy mine? It’s clean as a whistle and boasts super-low mileage. After all, it’s hardly been driven . . . A few weeks back I went with a friend of mine to Rotterdam for the weekend. He insisted that he drive the 1.5 hour journey in his new electric Porsche. I'd never been in an electric car so was quite interested to see how it all works. I spent the now 2.5 hour journey each way listening to him tell me about how great the app was for finding the 'fastest' charger stations, him asking me questions about how I like his electric car, and the extra hour each way waiting for his car to charge and wasting money on motorway food. All in all I was less than impressed as my car would have got me there and back on half a tank and half the time. People who buy electric cars are a bit like Brexit voters. Always looking for reaffirmation that they made a good decision and never able to admit that they made the wrong choice. Well I wouldn't mention mine until a condescending twat brought it up
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Post by foster on Jan 10, 2023 15:37:19 GMT
A few weeks back I went with a friend of mine to Rotterdam for the weekend. He insisted that he drive the 1.5 hour journey in his new electric Porsche. I'd never been in an electric car so was quite interested to see how it all works. I spent the now 2.5 hour journey each way listening to him tell me about how great the app was for finding the 'fastest' charger stations, him asking me questions about how I like his electric car, and the extra hour each way waiting for his car to charge and wasting money on motorway food. All in all I was less than impressed as my car would have got me there and back on half a tank and half the time. People who buy electric cars are a bit like Brexit voters. Always looking for reaffirmation that they made a good decision and never able to admit that they made the wrong choice. Well I wouldn't mention mine until a condescending twat brought it up That's a bit harsh on Lawrieleslie mate.
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Post by Northy on Jan 10, 2023 15:42:28 GMT
A few weeks back I went with a friend of mine to Rotterdam for the weekend. He insisted that he drive the 1.5 hour journey in his new electric Porsche. I'd never been in an electric car so was quite interested to see how it all works. I spent the now 2.5 hour journey each way listening to him tell me about how great the app was for finding the 'fastest' charger stations, him asking me questions about how I like his electric car, and the extra hour each way waiting for his car to charge and wasting money on motorway food. All in all I was less than impressed as my car would have got me there and back on half a tank and half the time. People who buy electric cars are a bit like Brexit voters. Always looking for reaffirmation that they made a good decision and never able to admit that they made the wrong choice. On the whole full EV cars are a massive con and most people have fallen for them hook, line and sinker without actually stopping and thinking about the reality of what it takes to own one. They have their uses in nuance situations but in the main they are useless and not a realistic alternative to traditional cars. I have a self charge hybrid, best of both worlds as I get full EV mode at times with the backup that I still have an engine and fuel tank to take me home. With a fantastic MPG to go along with it. Why is it a con, I've had mine since June (after a Toyota Hybrid for 3 years), done over 8,500 miles, I've probably only paid about £100 or so on electric charge since I've had it, suits me to the ground, keep paying for your fuel and polluting the air we breathe I get my charge for free at work, all certified CO2 free power, the odd occasion I charge at home via the solar panels or after 11PM at night it's CO2 free. It takes a little bit of thinking now and then but I've booked holiday cottages that have EV chargers, I drove to Sussex last year and paid £6 to top back up, I've just booked a holiday in June that has the same ones that Tesco have (Ive topped up at a Tesco 3 times for free), the park and ride at Oxford I stopped at in December had about 30 chargers, all free, it was great for the day, they also Had Tesla and the new super fast charging stations that are appearing quite a lot now. The guy that @lawrieleslie showed his rant musn't have heard of Electric Juice, this link is 2 1/2 years old and it has grown a lot since then, it's a partner network www.mymoneycomparison.com/new-electric-juice-network-by-octopus-energy#:~:text=The%20Electric%20Juice%20network%20has%20been%20in%20the,of%20the%20charge%20point%20networks%20in%20the%20market.
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Post by superjw on Jan 10, 2023 16:17:01 GMT
On the whole full EV cars are a massive con and most people have fallen for them hook, line and sinker without actually stopping and thinking about the reality of what it takes to own one. They have their uses in nuance situations but in the main they are useless and not a realistic alternative to traditional cars. I have a self charge hybrid, best of both worlds as I get full EV mode at times with the backup that I still have an engine and fuel tank to take me home. With a fantastic MPG to go along with it. Why is it a con, I've had mine since June (after a Toyota Hybrid for 3 years), done over 8,500 miles, I've probably only paid about £100 or so on electric charge since I've had it, suits me to the ground, keep paying for your fuel and polluting the air we breathe I get my charge for free at work, all certified CO2 free power, the odd occasion I charge at home via the solar panels or after 11PM at night it's CO2 free. It takes a little bit of thinking now and then but I've booked holiday cottages that have EV chargers, I drove to Sussex last year and paid £6 to top back up, I've just booked a holiday in June that has the same ones that Tesco have (Ive topped up at a Tesco 3 times for free), the park and ride at Oxford I stopped at in December had about 30 chargers, all free, it was great for the day, they also Had Tesla and the new super fast charging stations that are appearing quite a lot now. The guy that @lawrieleslie showed his rant musn't have heard of Electric Juice, this link is 2 1/2 years old and it has grown a lot since then, it's a partner network www.mymoneycomparison.com/new-electric-juice-network-by-octopus-energy#:~:text=The%20Electric%20Juice%20network%20has%20been%20in%20the,of%20the%20charge%20point%20networks%20in%20the%20market. How do you know your domestic electric is CO2 free after a certain time? Solar panels aside of course
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Post by Northy on Jan 10, 2023 16:24:53 GMT
Why is it a con, I've had mine since June (after a Toyota Hybrid for 3 years), done over 8,500 miles, I've probably only paid about £100 or so on electric charge since I've had it, suits me to the ground, keep paying for your fuel and polluting the air we breathe I get my charge for free at work, all certified CO2 free power, the odd occasion I charge at home via the solar panels or after 11PM at night it's CO2 free. It takes a little bit of thinking now and then but I've booked holiday cottages that have EV chargers, I drove to Sussex last year and paid £6 to top back up, I've just booked a holiday in June that has the same ones that Tesco have (Ive topped up at a Tesco 3 times for free), the park and ride at Oxford I stopped at in December had about 30 chargers, all free, it was great for the day, they also Had Tesla and the new super fast charging stations that are appearing quite a lot now. The guy that @lawrieleslie showed his rant musn't have heard of Electric Juice, this link is 2 1/2 years old and it has grown a lot since then, it's a partner network www.mymoneycomparison.com/new-electric-juice-network-by-octopus-energy#:~:text=The%20Electric%20Juice%20network%20has%20been%20in%20the,of%20the%20charge%20point%20networks%20in%20the%20market. How do you know your domestic electric is CO2 free after a certain time? Solar panels aside of course I buy it like that: - *Electricity backed by 100% renewable sources with the purchase of renewable electricity certificates.
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Post by superjw on Jan 10, 2023 16:39:40 GMT
How do you know your domestic electric is CO2 free after a certain time? Solar panels aside of course I buy it like that: - *Electricity backed by 100% renewable sources with the purchase of renewable electricity certificates. That's what I call "Greenwashing" the energy coming into your home is absolutely not carbon free at all, unless your home is permanently connected directly to a renewable generator, which granted yours is during the day with solar but most homes get the same energy via the grid no matter what supplier you have. It's a marketing ploy by energy providers to make people think they are doing "their bit" by signing up to a so called green tariff - often paying more per unit for the pleasure too for the same energy. They shouldn't be allowed to get away with it when the actual end user isn't getting the energy advertised. A bit like how airlines say X flight is carbon free because they have "offset it" it's a load of rubbish. I also imagine said energy companies can simply pay for these certificates too, without actually buying or generating renewable energy. Same goes for your work too, unless they have onsite renewable power generation for all of the energy needs (impressive if so) then that's not CO2 free either.
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Post by Northy on Jan 10, 2023 16:53:46 GMT
I buy it like that: - *Electricity backed by 100% renewable sources with the purchase of renewable electricity certificates. That's what I call "Greenwashing" the energy coming into your home is absolutely not carbon free at all, unless your home is permanently connected directly to a renewable generator, which granted yours is during the day with solar but most homes get the same energy via the grid no matter what supplier you have. It's a marketing ploy by energy providers to make people think they are doing "their bit" by signing up to a so called green tariff - often paying more per unit for the pleasure too for the same energy. They shouldn't be allowed to get away with it when the actual end user isn't getting the energy advertised. A bit like how airlines say X flight is carbon free because they have "offset it" it's a load of rubbish. I also imagine said energy companies can simply pay for these certificates too, without actually buying or generating renewable energy. Same goes for your work too, unless they have onsite renewable power generation for all of the energy needs (impressive if so) then that's not CO2 free either. How do you know that, what proof do you have, we are a global company that does check it's supply chain, we use a company that produces it's own power and doesn't need to buy Rego's, We have to report to the Carbon trust annually, it takes about 3 months to put the information together and is audited. I agree that some suppliers are greenwashing as they will buy Rego's and don't know the full mix of their supply.
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Post by superjw on Jan 10, 2023 17:14:49 GMT
That's what I call "Greenwashing" the energy coming into your home is absolutely not carbon free at all, unless your home is permanently connected directly to a renewable generator, which granted yours is during the day with solar but most homes get the same energy via the grid no matter what supplier you have. It's a marketing ploy by energy providers to make people think they are doing "their bit" by signing up to a so called green tariff - often paying more per unit for the pleasure too for the same energy. They shouldn't be allowed to get away with it when the actual end user isn't getting the energy advertised. A bit like how airlines say X flight is carbon free because they have "offset it" it's a load of rubbish. I also imagine said energy companies can simply pay for these certificates too, without actually buying or generating renewable energy. Same goes for your work too, unless they have onsite renewable power generation for all of the energy needs (impressive if so) then that's not CO2 free either. How do you know that, what proof do you have, we are a global company that does check it's supply chain, we use a company that produces it's own power and doesn't need to buy Rego's, We have to report to the Carbon trust annually, it takes about 3 months to put the information together and is audited. I agree that some suppliers are greenwashing as they will buy Rego's and don't know the full mix of their supply. It's just logic, like your own home your work I would imagine is connected the same power grid as everyone else. So the end user energy coming into mine, yours and your company is all the same energy that is sent around the grid - so it's not carbon free in the slightest at point of use. People and your company are paying for something they don't actually receive. No number of carbon trust audits will change that. What is more likely is the gross consumption is matched against the amount the energy providers have generated, that's offsetting and not actually green energy directly used. Again, unless directly connected to the power generator via dedicated grid. It's all energy companies, a house isn't actually supplied by X energy firm - it's all the same mix of energy sources coming down the grid as everyone else gets. No matter whether you are on a green deal or not, everyone's power still goes off in a power cut...
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Post by henry on Jan 10, 2023 17:39:11 GMT
How do you know your domestic electric is CO2 free after a certain time? Solar panels aside of course I buy it like that: - *Electricity backed by 100% renewable sources with the purchase of renewable electricity certificates. Have people with 100% renewable electricity seen the same price increase as everyone on non-renewable ?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jan 11, 2023 10:03:34 GMT
James May, of all people, a big fan of EVs by the looks of it...presumably not so the twat Clarkson, and Hammond won't have an opinion until Jeremy tells him to have one of course.
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Post by superjw on Jan 11, 2023 10:10:09 GMT
James May, of all people, a big fan of EVs by the looks of it...presumably not so the twat Clarkson, and Hammond won't have an opinion until Jeremy tells him to have one of course. I'm sure he has a Tesla at the minute, he did have the Toyota Hydrogen Fuel cell car for a while (Mirai I think it's called)
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Jan 11, 2023 23:50:07 GMT
That’s an interesting read and certainly a start BUT the issue comes with the millions and millions of charging points needed. I don’t know where you live but if you look out of your front window you might have cars parked on driveways and in the street. Now think for a second how many charging points we would need…… coupled with the infrastructure to get the cabling network not only installed but also balanced enough to avoid surges,( think of a half time cups during the Super Bowl for example ), and outages - there’s just a massive problem of serving the general public in this regard You’ll need trillions of pounds to meet these goals and it’s simply pie in the sky at the moment…… My work installed chargers and put solar panels on the roof of the multistorey car park. I think the EV people can set it so it's full when they're done for the day, so the whole thing actress kinda like a power sponge for the grid. Stops using power during absolute peak etc. I think we'll be really impressed by the clever solutions people come up with. How is this electric power which is created storted so it can be used, ?
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Jan 11, 2023 23:50:49 GMT
My work installed chargers and put solar panels on the roof of the multistorey car park. I think the EV people can set it so it's full when they're done for the day, so the whole thing actress kinda like a power sponge for the grid. Stops using power during absolute peak etc. I think we'll be really impressed by the clever solutions people come up with. How is this electric power which is created storted/stored so it can be used, ?
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Post by mtrstudent on Jan 12, 2023 0:54:47 GMT
My work installed chargers and put solar panels on the roof of the multistorey car park. I think the EV people can set it so it's full when they're done for the day, so the whole thing actress kinda like a power sponge for the grid. Stops using power during absolute peak etc. I think we'll be really impressed by the clever solutions people come up with. How is this electric power which is created storted so it can be used, ? It goes into the car batteries so the drivers don't plug in at night when there's no solar. I'm not sure whether the roof panels make enough for all of the cars. California has quite a few batteries on the grid nowadays too.
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Post by Northy on Jan 12, 2023 8:26:04 GMT
One in three new cars sold in the UK in December 2022 were battery-electric models, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) has confirmed.
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Post by Northy on Jan 12, 2023 8:27:59 GMT
How is this electric power which is created storted so it can be used, ? It goes into the car batteries so the drivers don't plug in at night when there's no solar. I'm not sure whether the roof panels make enough for all of the cars. California has quite a few batteries on the grid nowadays too. I'm just looking at this on 2 of our large sites, solar on the roof and also car ports on the car park, plus a heat recovery project on one of the offices
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Post by Northy on Jan 12, 2023 8:30:24 GMT
How is this electric power which is created storted/stored so it can be used, ? Battery storage, which in a lot of options is old electric car batteries, which are still about 80% efficient after their 8 year life in a car, they are repurposed despite what you read on social media from the nah slayers.
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Post by Northy on Jan 12, 2023 8:34:18 GMT
I buy it like that: - *Electricity backed by 100% renewable sources with the purchase of renewable electricity certificates. Have people with 100% renewable electricity seen the same price increase as everyone on non-renewable ? To some degree as it's the demand, we haven't as we bought 2 years in advance, it's the gas that has been the big increase. At work we made a profit on our electric as we'd bought 3 years in advance, and then didn't use a lot because of covid and the non return to the offices, so we sold our surplus back at the higher prices. Demand for electric increased last year with the fire in one of the channel inter connectors and France shutting down most of it's nuclear for safety reasons, the UK was exporting back to France (and also across the inter connectors to Dublin)
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jan 12, 2023 19:52:13 GMT
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jan 15, 2023 13:19:03 GMT
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Post by Northy on Jan 16, 2023 11:38:08 GMT
Oil companies have been lying and blocking new technology for many years.
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