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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jul 16, 2019 17:51:49 GMT
How old was Rooney when he broke into the Everton team? Worked out OK for him. Actually Rooney is a good example of why you have to be careful with young players. He lost his passion for the game quite early and probably lost a good few years at the top level as a result. And there are plenty of examples of players bloodied very young whose bodies wore out early as a result of being played a lot while they were still developing physically - Owen being one and I'm pretty sure Shawcross is suffering as a result as well. Collins needs introducing carefully for his own sake
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 16, 2019 17:53:57 GMT
How old was Rooney when he broke into the Everton team? Worked out OK for him. Actually Rooney is a good example of why you have to be careful with young players. He lost his passion for the game quite early and probably lost a good few years at the top level as a result. And there are plenty of examples of players bloodied very young whose bodies wore out early as a result of being played a lot while they were still developing physically - Owen being one and I'm pretty sure Shawcross is suffering as a result as well. Collins needs introducing carefully for his own sake You’ve just named two of the best strikers in their generations and an all time Stoke legend as reasons for why we shouldn’t do something. This is all rather sad.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Jul 16, 2019 17:56:27 GMT
Not seen anyone say anything of the sort He hasn't made the ROI U21 side yet and they know him far better than you do Last time I checked I didn't say I know him. I was just asking a question as to how an U21 player becomes a senior player without playing. Nor did I mention the RoI team at all but feel free to ignore what I've actually said as usual and make some bizarre unrelated comment. I'm glad the condescending mare has blocked me ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif)
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Post by iamcliveclarke on Jul 16, 2019 17:56:28 GMT
How old was Rooney when he broke into the Everton team? Worked out OK for him. Actually Rooney is a good example of why you have to be careful with young players. He lost his passion for the game quite early and probably lost a good few years at the top level as a result. And there are plenty of examples of players bloodied very young whose bodies wore out early as a result of being played a lot while they were still developing physically - Owen being one and I'm pretty sure Shawcross is suffering as a result as well. Collins needs introducing carefully for his own sake Do you remember when Wazza started playing for England, you literally held your breath when he was running at defenders, he was sensational! He had a fine career but really could have been up there with Messi and Ronaldo if he'd have kept his head and athleticism.
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Post by scfc75 on Jul 16, 2019 17:59:31 GMT
How old was Rooney when he broke into the Everton team? Worked out OK for him. Actually Rooney is a good example of why you have to be careful with young players. He lost his passion for the game quite early and probably lost a good few years at the top level as a result. And there are plenty of examples of players bloodied very young whose bodies wore out early as a result of being played a lot while they were still developing physically - Owen being one and I'm pretty sure Shawcross is suffering as a result as well. Collins needs introducing carefully for his own sake I don’t think there’s a rule that says if they start young they generally burn out. For every Michael Owen there’s a Ryan Giggs to disprove the theory.
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Post by Veritas on Jul 16, 2019 18:49:04 GMT
Actually Rooney is a good example of why you have to be careful with young players. He lost his passion for the game quite early and probably lost a good few years at the top level as a result. And there are plenty of examples of players bloodied very young whose bodies wore out early as a result of being played a lot while they were still developing physically - Owen being one and I'm pretty sure Shawcross is suffering as a result as well. Collins needs introducing carefully for his own sake I don’t think there’s a rule that says if they start young they generally burn out. For every Michael Owen there’s a Ryan Giggs to disprove the theory. Agreed but there are so many cases where they do that caution needs to be exercised and each player dealt with on their individual circumstances
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 18:58:14 GMT
How old was Rooney when he broke into the Everton team? Worked out OK for him. Actually Rooney is a good example of why you have to be careful with young players. He lost his passion for the game quite early and probably lost a good few years at the top level as a result. And there are plenty of examples of players bloodied very young whose bodies wore out early as a result of being played a lot while they were still developing physically - Owen being one and I'm pretty sure Shawcross is suffering as a result as well. Collins needs introducing carefully for his own sake "He lost his passion for the game quite early and probably lost a good few years at the top level as a result". That statement just doesn't ring true as far as Wayne Rooney is concerned. Not in ths slightest.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 16, 2019 19:01:06 GMT
People just keep naming really good players and saying this is why it shouldn’t happen. It’s most odd!
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Post by RF10 on Jul 16, 2019 19:01:58 GMT
Actually Rooney is a good example of why you have to be careful with young players. He lost his passion for the game quite early and probably lost a good few years at the top level as a result. And there are plenty of examples of players bloodied very young whose bodies wore out early as a result of being played a lot while they were still developing physically - Owen being one and I'm pretty sure Shawcross is suffering as a result as well. Collins needs introducing carefully for his own sake "He lost his passion for the game quite early and probably lost a good few years at the top level as a result". That statement just doesn't ring true as far as Wayne Rooney is concerned. Not in ths slightest. People will always have an agenda against Rooney for some reason. All time England and Man Utd goalscorer yet he still isn't rated by a lot. Weird.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jul 17, 2019 9:08:43 GMT
Actually Rooney is a good example of why you have to be careful with young players. He lost his passion for the game quite early and probably lost a good few years at the top level as a result. And there are plenty of examples of players bloodied very young whose bodies wore out early as a result of being played a lot while they were still developing physically - Owen being one and I'm pretty sure Shawcross is suffering as a result as well. Collins needs introducing carefully for his own sake You’ve just named two of the best strikers in their generations and an all time Stoke legend as reasons for why we shouldn’t do something. This is all rather sad. I didn't say we shouldn't do something - I said we should be careful what we do. What is sad is seeing very good players (Rooney, Owen and Shawcross being good examples) have their careers cut short because their introduction into the professional game wasn't well managed. Fortunately clubs are far more aware of the dangers of throwing young adults whose bodies are still developing into an environment that has the potential to cause long term harm. That isn't sad - it's behaving responsibly and in the long term interests of the player.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jul 17, 2019 9:13:37 GMT
Actually Rooney is a good example of why you have to be careful with young players. He lost his passion for the game quite early and probably lost a good few years at the top level as a result. And there are plenty of examples of players bloodied very young whose bodies wore out early as a result of being played a lot while they were still developing physically - Owen being one and I'm pretty sure Shawcross is suffering as a result as well. Collins needs introducing carefully for his own sake "He lost his passion for the game quite early and probably lost a good few years at the top level as a result". That statement just doesn't ring true as far as Wayne Rooney is concerned. Not in ths slightest. He said so himself towards the end of his career with Man Utd. Those last few years he never looked happy on the pitch - the enthusiasm that was do evident as a youngster had burned out if him. I'm not saying he wasn't a great player - he was - but in the end he just looked old before his time.
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corkstokie
Academy Starlet
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Cork and Stoke...................aaaaah
Posts: 157
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Post by corkstokie on Jul 17, 2019 10:19:10 GMT
Expect Troy Parrot (Spurs 17 yrs) and Adam Idah (Norwich 18 yrs) both Irish team mates of Collins to be breaking into their senior squads this season. I just hope he gets a fair crack at pre-season and that if he performs we don't bottle it and leave him out for a stalwart Wouldn't call Idah a team mate of late as been playing in the U21s That might mean that national team is simply short of quality strikers (which we know) but not defenders. I'm an armchair observer like everyone else here but Collins has power, speed, ball playing skills and leadership qualities that few others have. No point in pursuing this - let's agree to differ.
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Post by dreamtheater on Jul 17, 2019 10:28:43 GMT
I think hes really put himself out there
its his team now for sure
he had better deliver far better results than last season though
he must like pressure - adore it even.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Jul 17, 2019 10:29:02 GMT
So we're moaning that he shouldn't play him as he may burn out. If he's as good as I think he is when this time comes he'll have long left us! ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/0m0lbCuTEBzaRn6f8QaM.gif) We'll probably have him back when this happens! ![(lol)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/lvpvZ64EmrkLcuVniUmo.gif)
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Post by chigstoke on Jul 17, 2019 10:38:29 GMT
We cannot win on this forum. I thought we were all on the play Collins hype train 2 seconds ago, now we need to introduce him slowly to not burn out his love and passion for the game?
Whatever fucking next.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 17, 2019 10:47:25 GMT
You’ve just named two of the best strikers in their generations and an all time Stoke legend as reasons for why we shouldn’t do something. This is all rather sad. I didn't say we shouldn't do something - I said we should be careful what we do. What is sad is seeing very good players (Rooney, Owen and Shawcross being good examples) have their careers cut short because their introduction into the professional game wasn't well managed. Fortunately clubs are far more aware of the dangers of throwing young adults whose bodies are still developing into an environment that has the potential to cause long term harm. That isn't sad - it's behaving responsibly and in the long term interests of the player. Owen maybe. The other two though? Nah. They've both played loads into their thirties and no less or more than anyone who was bought through later. And with Owen was it down to his formative years? Or is he just not really built for it?
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jul 17, 2019 12:07:02 GMT
I didn't say we shouldn't do something - I said we should be careful what we do. What is sad is seeing very good players (Rooney, Owen and Shawcross being good examples) have their careers cut short because their introduction into the professional game wasn't well managed. Fortunately clubs are far more aware of the dangers of throwing young adults whose bodies are still developing into an environment that has the potential to cause long term harm. That isn't sad - it's behaving responsibly and in the long term interests of the player. Owen maybe. The other two though? Nah. They've both played loads into their thirties and no less or more than anyone who was bought through later. And with Owen was it down to his formative years? Or is he just not really built for it? Owen admitted he was over played as a youngster and the wear and year caught up with him and Shawcross had a growth spurt in his late teens that resulted in back problems. With Rooney it was more mental than physical. Physique, maturity and luck play a part but it's a fact that clubs are now far more aware of the issues of over playing youngsters than in the past. I'm not saying don't play Collins - I've got him down in my starting line up for the first game on another thread - I'm just saying there are dangers of over playing him at this age. His introduction needs properly managing - which I fully expect the club will do.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 17, 2019 12:20:13 GMT
We cannot win on this forum. I thought we were all on the play Collins hype train 2 seconds ago, now we need to introduce him slowly to not burn out his love and passion for the game? Whatever fucking next. They’re different people making different arguments though aren’t they? It isn’t the same people arguing one thing then arguing another.
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Post by melbournestokie21 on Jul 17, 2019 12:20:53 GMT
Were all forgetting that for 17 Collins is built like a brick shithouse
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 17, 2019 12:50:35 GMT
Owen maybe. The other two though? Nah. They've both played loads into their thirties and no less or more than anyone who was bought through later. And with Owen was it down to his formative years? Or is he just not really built for it? Owen admitted he was over played as a youngster and the wear and year caught up with him and Shawcross had a growth spurt in his late teens that resulted in back problems. With Rooney it was more mental than physical. Physique, maturity and luck play a part but it's a fact that clubs are now far more aware of the issues of over playing youngsters than in the past. I'm not saying don't play Collins - I've got him down in my starting line up for the first game on another thread - I'm just saying there are dangers of over playing him at this age. His introduction needs properly managing - which I fully expect the club will do. He's going to say that isn't he? It's easier to blame others than your own body. Shawcross and Rooney are just really bad examples imo.
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Post by liathroid on Jul 20, 2019 7:12:15 GMT
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Post by sneydgreenstokie1 on Jul 20, 2019 7:16:14 GMT
Pretty decent attitude
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Post by clarkeda on Jul 20, 2019 7:17:44 GMT
That says to me, this year Shawcross will be fazed out and Collins will be fazed in. I think Collins has been told that, and is happy with it. Which is testament to his attitude. Add to that another reason why I don’t think we are ready to go up this year, say Collins plays after Christmas consistently then has all next season in the Championship before hitting the premier league.
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Post by Championship Potter on Jul 20, 2019 7:25:52 GMT
6 months in League One would be best for everyone. Get him playing and, if he gets rave reviews, we bring him back and drop him straight into our team.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jul 20, 2019 7:33:02 GMT
6 months in League One would be best for everyone. Get him playing and, if he gets rave reviews, we bring him back and drop him straight into our team. I'm not sure people realise just how good this lad already is and is going to be. If we fail to handle this one properly it is going to cost us a hell of a lot of money. Fortunately for us he seems like a very nice, well rounded and well grounded lad.
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Post by lordb on Jul 20, 2019 8:14:10 GMT
Bayern was bemoaning him playing at right back the other day, perfectly reasonable concern, however Collins was excellent at right back. Suspect he'd be excellent in midfield too. That's because he's a very good footballer in the making. Don't loan him out, play him.
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Post by Championship Potter on Jul 20, 2019 8:54:44 GMT
6 months in League One would be best for everyone. Get him playing and, if he gets rave reviews, we bring him back and drop him straight into our team. I'm not sure people realise just how good this lad already is and is going to be. If we fail to handle this one properly it is going to cost us a hell of a lot of money. Fortunately for us he seems like a very nice, well rounded and well grounded lad. Don’t doubt his potential but if we start the season with him, he loses form and gets dropped is that going to do him any good? And how are the others going to react to getting overlooked for an 18 year old? We shouldn’t struggle to get him a loan to a top League 1 team where he can find his feet and come back ready to take a starting place. My worry if we keep him as 4th choice is that he won’t get the minutes to demonstrate what he can do.
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 20, 2019 9:52:10 GMT
Were all forgetting that for 17 Collins is built like a brick shithouse He was 18 in April.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 20, 2019 9:59:56 GMT
Batth Lindsay Shawcross BMI Collins
Even if BMI goes, how often is he going to get on the pitch? Being stuck here as fourth choice seems the worst of all worlds.
And if BMI stays, is he really going to be loaned out for the season to League One?
Seems a terrible waste.
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Post by Olgrligm on Jul 20, 2019 10:01:29 GMT
Batth Lindsay Shawcross BMI Collins Even if BMI goes, how often is he going to get on the pitch? And if BMI stays, is he really going to be loaned out for the season to League One? Seems a terrible waste. Is he left or right footed? I'm assuming that Jones will start with Pennington as left centre back with Bruno as back up, and with Ryan and Batth the two options for right centre back.
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