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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 24, 2019 2:42:34 GMT
It looked to me like we went 3-5-2 Paul, with McClean playing LWB, Allen, Clucas and Etebo in the middle and Diouf and Afobe up top. That was my first impression Rob but I looked at it and looked at it and I wasn't at all sure what was going on (and I don't think the players knew either) ... For a good length of time, Afobe and Diouf were as far from each other as it was actually possible to get, they were literally on opposite flanks, with NOBODY in the middle. I swear Diouf thought he was supposed to be playing as a right wing back and Edwards as a result, seemed to be equally as confused as what he was supposed to be doing. I've noticed that a lot of people on the board tonight, have suggested that we maintained a flat back four with Bruno simply moving to left back and Clucas moving into midfield. I'm still not entirely sure what happened and I'm not convinced the players did either. It just looked like one confused mess. That's exactly how it looked to me. Clucas, Diouf and Edwards all thought they were right midfielders for a while.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 24, 2019 2:46:17 GMT
That was my first impression Rob but I looked at it and looked at it and I wasn't at all sure what was going on (and I don't think the players knew either) ... For a good length of time, Afobe and Diouf were as far from each other as it was actually possible to get, they were literally on opposite flanks, with NOBODY in the middle. I swear Diouf thought he was supposed to be playing as a right wing back and Edwards as a result, seemed to be equally as confused as what he was supposed to be doing. I've noticed that a lot of people on the board tonight, have suggested that we maintained a flat back four with Bruno simply moving to left back and Clucas moving into midfield. I'm still not entirely sure what happened and I'm not convinced the players did either. It just looked like one confused mess. That's exactly how it looked to me. Clucas, Diouf and Edwards all thought they were right midfielders for a while. Yes you are right about Clucas too ... you might as well have had the Benny Hill theme tune playing initially.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 24, 2019 2:47:34 GMT
That's exactly how it looked to me. Clucas, Diouf and Edwards all thought they were right midfielders for a while. Yes you are right about Clucas too ... you might as well have had the Benny Hill theme tune playing initially. Do you think that is the players fault or the managers fault Paul?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 24, 2019 2:49:59 GMT
Yes you are right about Clucas too ... you might as well have had the Benny Hill theme tune playing initially. Do you think that is the players fault or the managers fault Paul? The manager's. It's not even a discussion is it?
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 24, 2019 2:52:14 GMT
Do you think that is the players fault or the managers fault Paul? The manager's. It's not even a discussion is it? Just checking. Most people on here seem to think everything is the players fault these days.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 24, 2019 2:56:16 GMT
The manager's. It's not even a discussion is it? Just checking. Most people on here seem to think everything is the players fault these days. The players might lack ability, they might be bone idle but if three (or four, or five) of them don't know where they're supposed to be standing on a football pitch, immediately following a substitution, then that's surely down to the people/person instructing them.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 24, 2019 2:59:39 GMT
Just checking. Most people on here seem to think everything is the players fault these days. The players might lack ability, they might be bone idle but if three of them don't know where they're supposed to be standing on a football pitch, immediately following a substitution, then that's surely down to the people/person instructing them. Yep. I really can't see what we witnessed today happening if Lampard had been in the technical area can you? I know that's a bit random but I'm sure you know what I'm getting at. I don't think there's any respect for the manager judging by the way they're acting on the pitch.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 24, 2019 3:07:35 GMT
The players might lack ability, they might be bone idle but if three of them don't know where they're supposed to be standing on a football pitch, immediately following a substitution, then that's surely down to the people/person instructing them. Yep. I really can't see what we witnessed today happening if Lampard had been in the technical area can you? I know that's a bit random but I'm sure you know what I'm getting at. I don't think there's any respect for the manager judging by the way their acting on the pitch. Well something wasn't (isn't?) right ... I'm not sure it's necessarily to do with a lack of respect from the players, hopefully it's more to do with a lack of communication (which still isn't great) from the management but god forbid if it's to do with an actual lack of a discernible plan.
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Post by StatesideStokie on Feb 24, 2019 3:13:22 GMT
Give him the tools he needs and we’ll do well. There was £50m of players on the books before Rowett added his shit to it. Does anyone really think we can afford to ditch the majority of the squad in the summer? The question is not “can we afford to ditch the majority of the squad in the Summer?” It’s “can we afford not to?”. Make no mistake, we need a complete purge or we’ll be staring into the abyss.
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Post by StatesideStokie on Feb 24, 2019 3:17:01 GMT
Yet people can’t see that and are expecting him to perform miracles. Not too dissimilar to Rowett then, except he wasn't afforded any time whatsoever. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Rowett because he deserved the sack in the end, more for his outbursts in the media than the football, but I find it funny that, even though we've got worse under Jones, people are making the excuse that our squad is shit (Which it is), but Rowett wasn't afforded that, in fact when Rowett was manager it was more like.... "He can't get a tune out of a squad full of internationals". Perhaps because Rowett spent over 50 million quid assembling the squad that Jones is now lumbered with? Rowett has a full pre-season and the biggest budget in the Championship. Jones had a few days and next to nowt spent before the window slammed shut, and he needs to be cut some fucking slack.
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Post by marrer on Feb 24, 2019 3:34:27 GMT
How many times do people have to be reminded that Pulis record was worse after the same number of games. They would not listen, they're not listening still. Perhaps they never will. That's just beautiful mate. We need to switch all our games to night matches - starry starry nights and all that......
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Post by starkiller on Feb 24, 2019 5:09:37 GMT
Another charlatan of a manager. He has absolutely no idea what he's doing. It's clear the players don't know what he's trying to do either. The players are charlatans. Maybe we should change the manager every month.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 24, 2019 8:21:47 GMT
Nathan is a negative bottle job. One win in nine? We sacked the guy before him for being absolutely shyte, yet he was infinitely better than the new guy. Hasn’t this been the pattern since we decided to replace TP? The new manager is worse than the previous one. No.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 24, 2019 8:23:37 GMT
None of that happens overnight. What system does suit these players? Three, five, motherfucking two. We don’t have a left wing back. Or more than one useful striker. It’s a better bet than the diamond at the moment for sure but still an awkward fit for this bunch.
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Post by bigcashprizes on Feb 24, 2019 8:33:19 GMT
It looked to me like we went 3-5-2 Paul, with McClean playing LWB, Allen, Clucas and Etebo in the middle and Diouf and Afobe up top. That was my first impression Rob but I looked at it and looked at it and I wasn't at all sure what was going on (and I don't think the players knew either) ... For a good length of time, Afobe and Diouf were as far from each other as it was actually possible to get, they were literally on opposite flanks, with NOBODY in the middle. I swear Diouf thought he was supposed to be playing as a right wing back and Edwards as a result, seemed to be equally as confused as what he was supposed to be doing. I've noticed that a lot of people on the board tonight, have suggested that we maintained a flat back four with Bruno simply moving to left back and Clucas moving into midfield. I'm still not entirely sure what happened and I'm not convinced the players did either. It just looked like one confused mess. That’s what I thought. It seemed like we were swapping between three and four at the back. And I quipped at the time that I thought Hughes was back because Diouf appeared to be wing back! Then he went back up top for a bit. It was a right rabble. It seems obvious to me now though that a few tweaks to the personnel/system just won’t work. Everything is too jumbled now. It has to be a full rebuild
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2019 8:40:45 GMT
Not too dissimilar to Rowett then, except he wasn't afforded any time whatsoever. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Rowett because he deserved the sack in the end, more for his outbursts in the media than the football, but I find it funny that, even though we've got worse under Jones, people are making the excuse that our squad is shit (Which it is), but Rowett wasn't afforded that, in fact when Rowett was manager it was more like.... "He can't get a tune out of a squad full of internationals". Perhaps because Rowett spent over 50 million quid assembling the squad that Jones is now lumbered with? Rowett has a full pre-season and the biggest budget in the Championship. Jones had a few days and next to nowt spent before the window slammed shut, and he needs to be cut some fucking slack. You kinda missing the point. Rowett was sacked for failing to get a tune out of an expensively assembled squad. Jones is getting less of a tune out of them but that is seemingly okay. I doubt very much when NJ was interviewed for the job he said "look I'll get you one win in 9 cus this isn't my squad"
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2019 8:49:52 GMT
Perhaps because Rowett spent over 50 million quid assembling the squad that Jones is now lumbered with? Rowett has a full pre-season and the biggest budget in the Championship. Jones had a few days and next to nowt spent before the window slammed shut, and he needs to be cut some fucking slack. You kinda missing the point. Rowett was sacked for failing to get a tune out of an expensively assembled squad. Jones is getting less of a tune out of them but that is seemingly okay. I doubt very much when NJ was interviewed for the job he said "look I'll get you one win in 9 cus this isn't my squad" That expensively assembled squad was predominantly his.
Half a new back four, half a new midfield and a brand new front line.
The brand new front line cost nearly 30M and had two out of three components that aren't fit for the system they were brought in for (McClean and Afobe) and the other was virtually identical in stature to the player he replaced (Ince for Shaqiri), albeit a much poorer player. We saw last season the limitations of that kind of player out wide in a 4-3-3.
The reason Rowett was sacked, I believe, isn't down to the downright fcukwitted transfer policy he introduced or even the results, it is down to the fact he turned on the supporters, disrespected current players and past legends of the club.
Jones is getting less of a tune out of them because the problems have been compounded over a number of years and things are finally coming to a head. Is it right? No, but I don't think people are saying that are they? They are asking for time for him to put it right, because the alternative is what exactly?
Yet another manager to start the assessment period (that Paul Lambert started well over 12 months ago...) and let the can to be continually kicked down the road to the next poor fcuker that finds his way into the club?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 24, 2019 8:50:12 GMT
Perhaps because Rowett spent over 50 million quid assembling the squad that Jones is now lumbered with? Rowett has a full pre-season and the biggest budget in the Championship. Jones had a few days and next to nowt spent before the window slammed shut, and he needs to be cut some fucking slack. You kinda missing the point. Rowett was sacked for failing to get a tune out of an expensively assembled squad. Jones is getting less of a tune out of them but that is seemingly okay. I doubt very much when NJ was interviewed for the job he said "look I'll get you one win in 9 cus this isn't my squad" It was ROWETT’s expensively assembled squad though, that’s the difference. He was given a full pre-season, he was given a huge budget. Jones should be doing better but I don’t think the appointment was made with the conviction that he’d make everything instantly brilliant. The things that have served him well in his career to date are things that took time to develop.
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Post by potterpaul on Feb 24, 2019 8:59:53 GMT
Three, five, motherfucking two. We don’t have a left wing back. Or more than one useful striker. It’s a better bet than the diamond at the moment for sure but still an awkward fit for this bunch. Which brings us to question the Campbell decision
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 24, 2019 9:00:04 GMT
You kinda missing the point. Rowett was sacked for failing to get a tune out of an expensively assembled squad. Jones is getting less of a tune out of them but that is seemingly okay. I doubt very much when NJ was interviewed for the job he said "look I'll get you one win in 9 cus this isn't my squad" The things that have served him well in his career to date are things that took time to develop. He's been a manager for 5 minutes and has achieved the square root of fuck all so far. what are you talking about?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 24, 2019 9:03:40 GMT
The things that have served him well in his career to date are things that took time to develop. He's been a manager for 5 minutes and has achieved the square root of fuck all so far. what are you talking about? Taking Luton up and having them at the top of League One isn’t ‘the square root of fuck all’. That’s more than great hope du jour Frank Lampard has achieved. You can rightly highlight a lack of experience to date but he has enjoyed success in that time. It took him a few windows to get the Luton squad how he wanted it and it’ll take him the same here.
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 24, 2019 9:09:40 GMT
The things that have served him well in his career to date are things that took time to develop. He's been a manager for 5 minutes and has achieved the square root of fuck all so far. what are you talking about? He's created a winning machine at Luton. That's not nothing. P 139 W 71 D 40 L 28 F 238 A 136 Pts 253
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 24, 2019 9:10:54 GMT
He's been a manager for 5 minutes and has achieved the square root of fuck all so far. what are you talking about? Taking Luton up and having them at the top of League One isn’t ‘the square root of fuck all’. That’s more than great hope du jour Frank Lampard has achieved. You can rightly highlight a lack of experience to date but he has enjoyed success in that time. It took him a few windows to get the Luton squad how he wanted it and it’ll take him the same here. Managing big egos from the premier league and championship is a totally different ball game to managing league 2 and league 1 players. He may be a decent lower league manager so far but it's totally the wrong fit for a club like ours on the back of 10 years in the premier league with players on crazy salaries. He should have stayed at Luton and we should have got a better fit manager.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 24, 2019 9:12:24 GMT
He's been a manager for 5 minutes and has achieved the square root of fuck all so far. what are you talking about? He's created a winning machine at Luton. That's not nothing. P 139 W 71 D 40 L 28 F 238 A 136 Pts 253 Steve Davis at Crewe did a very similar job and nearly took the Wolves job off the back of that. 6 months later he couldn't win a game for toffee and now he's unemployed.
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 24, 2019 9:13:48 GMT
Taking Luton up and having them at the top of League One isn’t ‘the square root of fuck all’. That’s more than great hope du jour Frank Lampard has achieved. You can rightly highlight a lack of experience to date but he has enjoyed success in that time. It took him a few windows to get the Luton squad how he wanted it and it’ll take him the same here. Managing big egos from the premier league and championship is a totally different ball game to managing league 2 and league 1 players. He may be a decent lower league manager so far but it's totally the wrong fit for a club like ours on the back of 10 years in the premier league with players on crazy salaries. He should have stayed at Luton and we should have got a better fit manager. Has anyone had much success managing this particular group though? We've rifled through Hughes, Lambo, Rowett who assembled the bulk of it, and now Jones parachuted into a mess not his making just a month ago. With this lot, I don't think ego is the issue. The squad just isn't fit for purpose.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 24, 2019 9:16:21 GMT
Taking Luton up and having them at the top of League One isn’t ‘the square root of fuck all’. That’s more than great hope du jour Frank Lampard has achieved. You can rightly highlight a lack of experience to date but he has enjoyed success in that time. It took him a few windows to get the Luton squad how he wanted it and it’ll take him the same here. Managing big egos from the premier league and championship is a totally different ball game to managing league 2 and league 1 players. He may be a decent lower league manager so far but it's totally the wrong fit for a club like ours on the back of 10 years in the premier league with players on crazy salaries. He should have stayed at Luton and we should have got a better fit manager. And who would that have been? Again, keep playing to the egos of the dressing room and you run the risk of perpetuating the same problems. We actually need rid of a good number of them and an injection of youth and hunger into the set up. That, again, isn't going to happen overnight.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2019 9:17:51 GMT
He's created a winning machine at Luton. That's not nothing. P 139 W 71 D 40 L 28 F 238 A 136 Pts 253 Steve Davis at Crewe did a very similar job and nearly took the Wolves job off the back of that. 6 months later he couldn't win a game for toffee and now he's unemployed.
Very similar job?
P 272 W 84 D 71 L 117
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Post by neddy on Feb 24, 2019 9:19:10 GMT
He's created a winning machine at Luton. That's not nothing. P 139 W 71 D 40 L 28 F 238 A 136 Pts 253 Steve Davis at Crewe did a very similar job and nearly took the Wolves job off the back of that. 6 months later he couldn't win a game for toffee and now he's unemployed. Are you then advocating sacking him now or just making the point he is no good? Surely we can’t sack someone again now? I think he should have the time like the others to create his team......I’d like to think he is looking at the whole squad while he can in game situations? Maybe behind the scenes some of the players know they may be out and this is affecting performances?
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 24, 2019 9:22:34 GMT
Managing big egos from the premier league and championship is a totally different ball game to managing league 2 and league 1 players. He may be a decent lower league manager so far but it's totally the wrong fit for a club like ours on the back of 10 years in the premier league with players on crazy salaries. He should have stayed at Luton and we should have got a better fit manager. Has anyone had much success managing this particular group though? We've rifled through Hughes, Lambo, Rowett who assembled the bulk of it, and now Jones parachuted into a mess not his making just a month ago. With this lot, I don't think ego is the issue. The squad just isn't fit for purpose. That's where we disagree then, I happen to think the squad is much better than we're currently performing. We may as well have have stuck with Lambert, I actually think he was getting somewhere considering he hadn't brought any of his own players in and he had experience in getting a team promoted and keeping them in the premier league. Rowett and Jones will go down in history the same as Chris Kamara.
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Feb 24, 2019 9:25:12 GMT
He's created a winning machine at Luton. That's not nothing. P 139 W 71 D 40 L 28 F 238 A 136 Pts 253 Steve Davis at Crewe did a very similar job and nearly took the Wolves job off the back of that. 6 months later he couldn't win a game for toffee and now he's unemployed. Only a fool with an agenda would judge Jones at this point. He's inherited a complete shower of shite, with team morale at an all time low. If anyone thinks that a complete turnaround is possible in a few months, then they're deluded.
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