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Post by LankyPotter on Feb 23, 2019 22:14:14 GMT
So you are absolutely saying that no football manager or coach on this planet could get a tune out of the current twenty man squad given eight weeks of training and preparation.? No I’m not saying that. I’m saying the squad is hideously unbalanced and doesn’t obviously lend itself to any system. It would be a tough job to take on certainly, even for an experienced manager. There’s no quick fix. Spot on by the way!
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 23, 2019 22:14:41 GMT
So you are absolutely saying that no football manager or coach on this planet could get a tune out of the current twenty man squad given eight weeks of training and preparation.? No I’m not saying that. I’m saying the squad is hideously unbalanced and doesn’t obviously lend itself to any system. It would be a tough job to take on certainly, even for an experienced manager. There’s no quick fix. I grant you we are overloade with midfielders but to say we are "hideously" unbalanced is over-egging the pudding in my opinion. Best goalie in the league.. We have offloaded our only genuine left back. We have more central midfielders than you could shake a stick at.. Width in Ince and McClean. Central defence is covered. Afobe, Vokes, Diouf and Bojan up front. Most championship managers would give their eye teeth for this lot.
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 23, 2019 22:17:51 GMT
So you are absolutely saying that no football manager or coach on this planet could get a tune out of the current twenty man squad given eight weeks of training and preparation.? No I’m not saying that. I’m saying the squad is hideously unbalanced and doesn’t obviously lend itself to any system. It would be a tough job to take on certainly, even for an experienced manager. There’s no quick fix. So you admit a top notch manager could get a tune out of them?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 23, 2019 22:18:34 GMT
No I’m not saying that. I’m saying the squad is hideously unbalanced and doesn’t obviously lend itself to any system. It would be a tough job to take on certainly, even for an experienced manager. There’s no quick fix. I grant you we are overloade with midfielders but to say we are "hideously" unbalanced is over-egging the pudding in my opinion. Best goalie in the league.. We have offloaded our only genuine left back. We have more central midfielders than you could shake a stick at.. Width in Ince and McClean. Central defence is covered. Afobe, Vokes, Diouf and Bojan up front. Most championship managers would give their eye teeth for this lot. No proper left back One reliable centre back No holding midfielder Hardly any creativity No pace An abundance of box to box midfielders McClean is a winger who fits a 442. Ince is one who suits a 433. No alternatives to them if one is out of form or injured. One striker fit for purpose (now injured). Yeah, great stuff. That bench today was brimming with game changers...
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 23, 2019 22:19:16 GMT
No I’m not saying that. I’m saying the squad is hideously unbalanced and doesn’t obviously lend itself to any system. It would be a tough job to take on certainly, even for an experienced manager. There’s no quick fix. So you admit a top notch manager could get a tune out of them? A ‘top notch manager’ was going to join a club 14th in the Championship was he?
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Post by stokeson on Feb 23, 2019 22:21:04 GMT
No I’m not saying that. I’m saying the squad is hideously unbalanced and doesn’t obviously lend itself to any system. It would be a tough job to take on certainly, even for an experienced manager. There’s no quick fix. So you admit a top notch manager could get a tune out of them? Any half decent Championship manager could but forget that we have Nathan the man that turned Luton into world beaters so im a stupid know nothing......
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 23, 2019 22:23:52 GMT
So you admit a top notch manager could get a tune out of them? Any half decent Championship manager could but forget that we have Nathan the man that turned Luton into world beaters so im a stupid know nothing...... Like who?
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 23, 2019 22:29:30 GMT
So you admit a top notch manager could get a tune out of them? A ‘top notch manager’ was going to join a club 14th in the Championship was he? So you are admitting that a better standard manager could get a tune out of them?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 23, 2019 22:30:22 GMT
A ‘top notch manager’ was going to join a club 14th in the Championship was he? So you are admitting that a better standard manager could get a tune out of them? Define ‘a better standard manager’?
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Post by stokeson on Feb 23, 2019 22:32:34 GMT
So you are admitting that a better standard manager could get a tune out of them? Define ‘a better standard manager’? One that wins games?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 23, 2019 22:33:59 GMT
Define ‘a better standard manager’? One that wins games? One parachuted into a mess mid season to wave a magic wand? Go on, who should it have been?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2019 22:35:50 GMT
No I’m not saying that. I’m saying the squad is hideously unbalanced and doesn’t obviously lend itself to any system. It would be a tough job to take on certainly, even for an experienced manager. There’s no quick fix. I grant you we are overloade with midfielders but to say we are "hideously" unbalanced is over-egging the pudding in my opinion. Best goalie in the league.. We have offloaded our only genuine left back. We have more central midfielders than you could shake a stick at..Width in Ince and McClean.Central defence is covered. Afobe, Vokes, Diouf and Bojan up front. Most championship managers would give their eye teeth for this lot. 1. All of them bar Etebo and Woods (even he's in bad form) are absolutely shite. This is our main issue 2. Both in poor form. 3. Diouf showed he isn't an option for me, a poor-ish performance would've been okay, but he was horrific. Didn't look arsed. We have the makings of an alright team, but the middle of the park is too big an issue Those 3 in midfield today completely ceded the game after the 10th minute, and until we completely overhaul it or turn them into better players we will continue to struggle. Etebo was the only one to come out with some credit. Even Clucas improved it when he moved there.
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Post by LankyPotter on Feb 23, 2019 22:41:32 GMT
Positives from today: Tremendous send off for a legend! First 15 minutes we looked a very good side (until vokes went off injured and charlie ran out of steam) looked comfortable for the rest of the half. Clucas played well at LB. The midfield looked alot more compact whilst offering a threat in periods. Worked their arses off. Jones’ two signings showing the way for future business. Defended very well considering the amount of pressure we were put under. Could keep going but I’ll end with this, Jones stated in his post match interview what he believes are the problems and id agree entirely with his analysis. He will have the time to implement his style and we will be class when he does.
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 23, 2019 22:41:54 GMT
So you are admitting that a better standard manager could get a tune out of them? Define ‘a better standard manager’? Now you're playing silly buggers 😀
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 23, 2019 22:48:56 GMT
I think Jones is well out of his depth.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 23, 2019 22:49:02 GMT
Define ‘a better standard manager’? Now you're playing silly buggers 😀 I’m really not, I genuinely don’t know that you mean. If you mean a more experienced manager, like, say Moyes, then short term yeah, he might have gone back to basics and ground out a couple more results. But long term, all the problems are still there. You’re still signing ‘names’ on the way down, you’re still playing fairly dour stuff, you’re still locked in the same patterns. What’s needed is root and branch change and to start targeting younger, hungrier players on their way up and play positive, dynamic football. We’re obviously a long way from that now, but that’s what I believe we want to build, and I’d rather give that a chance and seea new, vibrant Stoke City built than see people continually try and fake pale imitations of the old one.
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 23, 2019 23:04:21 GMT
Now you're playing silly buggers 😀 I’m really not, I genuinely don’t know that you mean. If you mean a more experienced manager, like, say Moyes, then short term yeah, he might have gone back to basics and ground out a couple more results. But long term, all the problems are still there. You’re still signing ‘names’ on the way down, you’re still playing fairly dour stuff, you’re still locked in the same patterns. What’s needed is root and branch change and to start targeting younger, hungrier players on their way up and play positive, dynamic football. We’re obviously a long way from that now, but that’s what I believe we want to build, and I’d rather give that a chance and seea new, vibrant Stoke City built than see people continually try and fake pale imitations of the old one. No. You were implying that this group of players were "uncoachable" I maintain that we have got enough nous and talent in that squad to make the play-offs. Given the right manager. I'm absolutely in agreement with you about some of the horrendous signings in the last couple of years and the lack of cohesive team planning. I also understand your thinking about a bright new young fast paced technical team under Jones. If we were in league one I would go with that... However, top league football today is quick fix I'm afraid and if we don't get back next season then we will be stuck for a very long time in the lower leagues. In my humble opinion. Just don't think Nathan will cut the mustard. Hope I'm proved horribly wrong of course Cheers
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Post by Davef on Feb 23, 2019 23:14:10 GMT
I’m really not, I genuinely don’t know that you mean. If you mean a more experienced manager, like, say Moyes, then short term yeah, he might have gone back to basics and ground out a couple more results. But long term, all the problems are still there. You’re still signing ‘names’ on the way down, you’re still playing fairly dour stuff, you’re still locked in the same patterns. What’s needed is root and branch change and to start targeting younger, hungrier players on their way up and play positive, dynamic football. We’re obviously a long way from that now, but that’s what I believe we want to build, and I’d rather give that a chance and seea new, vibrant Stoke City built than see people continually try and fake pale imitations of the old one. No. You were implying that this group of players were "uncoachable" I maintain that we have got enough nous and talent in that squad to make the play-offs. Given the right manager. I'm absolutely in agreement with you about some of the horrendous signings in the last couple of years and the lack of cohesive team planning. I also understand your thinking about a bright new young fast paced technical team under Jones. If we were in league one I would go with that... However, top league football today is quick fix I'm afraid and if we don't get back next season then we will be stuck for a very long time in the lower leagues. In my humble opinion. Just don't think Nathan will cut the mustard. Hope I'm proved horribly wrong of course Cheers Covering all your bases there aren't you? Jones is a success - you're right. Jones fails - you're right. Bore off.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 23, 2019 23:16:08 GMT
I’m really not, I genuinely don’t know that you mean. If you mean a more experienced manager, like, say Moyes, then short term yeah, he might have gone back to basics and ground out a couple more results. But long term, all the problems are still there. You’re still signing ‘names’ on the way down, you’re still playing fairly dour stuff, you’re still locked in the same patterns. What’s needed is root and branch change and to start targeting younger, hungrier players on their way up and play positive, dynamic football. We’re obviously a long way from that now, but that’s what I believe we want to build, and I’d rather give that a chance and seea new, vibrant Stoke City built than see people continually try and fake pale imitations of the old one. No. You were implying that this group of players were "uncoachable" I maintain that we have got enough nous and talent in that squad to make the play-offs. Given the right manager. I'm absolutely in agreement with you about some of the horrendous signings in the last couple of years and the lack of cohesive team planning. I also understand your thinking about a bright new young fast paced technical team under Jones. If we were in league one I would go with that... However, top league football today is quick fix I'm afraid and if we don't get back next season then we will be stuck for a very long time in the lower leagues. In my humble opinion. Just don't think Nathan will cut the mustard. Hope I'm proved horribly wrong of course Cheers I never said they were uncoachable. I said the squad is unbalanced and doesn’t easily fit any recognisable system. Not the same thing. This isn’t top league football. It’s second tier football. And you can take time to build something at that level. Either way, we’ve appointed him now, so we’re just going to have to back him and hope for the best.
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 23, 2019 23:19:44 GMT
No. You were implying that this group of players were "uncoachable" I maintain that we have got enough nous and talent in that squad to make the play-offs. Given the right manager. I'm absolutely in agreement with you about some of the horrendous signings in the last couple of years and the lack of cohesive team planning. I also understand your thinking about a bright new young fast paced technical team under Jones. If we were in league one I would go with that... However, top league football today is quick fix I'm afraid and if we don't get back next season then we will be stuck for a very long time in the lower leagues. In my humble opinion. Just don't think Nathan will cut the mustard. Hope I'm proved horribly wrong of course Cheers Covering all your bases there aren't you? Jones is a success - you're right. Jones fails - you're right. Bore off. What the fudge you on about? You p****d up? If Jones succeeds I'm fooking wrong you daft tw*t and you're welcome to remind me of that. I'm expressing an opinion.. like many others on this board.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 23, 2019 23:25:00 GMT
No. You were implying that this group of players were "uncoachable" I maintain that we have got enough nous and talent in that squad to make the play-offs. Given the right manager. I'm absolutely in agreement with you about some of the horrendous signings in the last couple of years and the lack of cohesive team planning. I also understand your thinking about a bright new young fast paced technical team under Jones. If we were in league one I would go with that... However, top league football today is quick fix I'm afraid and if we don't get back next season then we will be stuck for a very long time in the lower leagues. In my humble opinion. Just don't think Nathan will cut the mustard. Hope I'm proved horribly wrong of course Cheers I never said they were uncoachable. I said the squad is unbalanced and doesn’t easily fit any recognisable system. Not the same thing. This isn’t top league football. It’s second tier football. And you can take time to build something at that level. Either way, we’ve appointed him now, so we’re just going to have to back him and hope for the best. Rob, what formation were we playing and who was playing where, after Afobe came on?
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Post by WhyDelilah on Feb 23, 2019 23:27:11 GMT
Nathan is a negative bottle job.
One win in nine?
We sacked the guy before him for being absolutely shyte, yet he was infinitely better than the new guy.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 24, 2019 0:16:27 GMT
I never said they were uncoachable. I said the squad is unbalanced and doesn’t easily fit any recognisable system. Not the same thing. This isn’t top league football. It’s second tier football. And you can take time to build something at that level. Either way, we’ve appointed him now, so we’re just going to have to back him and hope for the best. Rob, what formation were we playing and who was playing where, after Afobe came on? It looked to me like we went 3-5-2 Paul, with McClean playing LWB, Allen, Clucas and Etebo in the middle and Diouf and Afobe up top.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 24, 2019 0:28:50 GMT
Rob, what formation were we playing and who was playing where, after Afobe came on? It looked to me like we went 3-5-2 Paul, with McClean playing LWB, Allen, Clucas and Etebo in the middle and Diouf and Afobe up top. That was my first impression Rob but I looked at it and looked at it and I wasn't at all sure what was going on (and I don't think the players knew either) ... For a good length of time, Afobe and Diouf were as far from each other as it was actually possible to get, they were literally on opposite flanks, with NOBODY in the middle. I swear Diouf thought he was supposed to be playing as a right wing back and Edwards as a result, seemed to be equally as confused as what he was supposed to be doing. I've noticed that a lot of people on the board tonight, have suggested that we maintained a flat back four with Bruno simply moving to left back and Clucas moving into midfield. I'm still not entirely sure what happened and I'm not convinced the players did either. It just looked like one confused mess.
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Post by expectedtoulouse on Feb 24, 2019 0:30:58 GMT
There’s no discernible game plan. What is he actually trying to do?
We’ve seen a left winger upfront, a centre back at left back, a centre back upfront, its all a mess.
If an experienced manager got hold of this team we’d be a totally different animal.
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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 24, 2019 0:50:24 GMT
Nathan is a negative bottle job. One win in nine? We sacked the guy before him for being absolutely shyte, yet he was infinitely better than the new guy. How many times do people have to be reminded that Pulis record was worse after the same number of games.
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Post by march4 on Feb 24, 2019 0:56:04 GMT
Nathan is a negative bottle job. One win in nine? We sacked the guy before him for being absolutely shyte, yet he was infinitely better than the new guy. Hasn’t this been the pattern since we decided to replace TP? The new manager is worse than the previous one.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Feb 24, 2019 1:50:48 GMT
He had a full pre-season with them. Yes he did. I think people are misunderstanding the point of my original post here because I'm not defending Gary Rowett as such and I am willing to give Jones time because I've been saying all season that our squad is a mess. My point was that the hypocrisy on here is quite funny, well to me it is anyway. As someone who wanted Rowett out, I agree with you.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Feb 24, 2019 1:56:09 GMT
Work ethic Self belief System to suit players Team bonding Would do for start. None of that happens overnight. What system does suit these players? Three, five, motherfucking two.
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Post by Absolution on Feb 24, 2019 2:00:11 GMT
Nathan is a negative bottle job. One win in nine? We sacked the guy before him for being absolutely shyte, yet he was infinitely better than the new guy. How many times do people have to be reminded that Pulis record was worse after the same number of games. They would not listen, they're not listening still. Perhaps they never will.
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