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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2008 10:02:06 GMT
Sheikh,
I think you'll find many of them moved to other areas and found work unlike some who sat on their arses.
If Thatcher introduced a bill stating that you had to work in the same location for the rest of your life I'd be in agreement with you.
She didn't, so as far as I'm concerned YOU control YOUR ability to work.
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 29, 2008 10:06:48 GMT
Oh I forgot SB all those new jobs she created with generous retraining and relocation packages and all the new investment she put in Schools and affordable and social housing to cope with the required internal migration.
It doesn't wash mate.
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Post by Cupid Stunt on May 29, 2008 10:14:24 GMT
squareball people couldn't move because they had no money to move so they had to stay where they were!
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2008 10:19:21 GMT
I know many people who moved elsewhere and found work and others who found work in Stoke (some from South Wales etc). Yes, that's right - work outside the nationlised industries in Stoke, in the 80s!
They were obviously the 'get off your arse and do something' types unlike the excuse laden types that still exist within Stoke?
Some made the effort, many more didn't.
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 29, 2008 10:28:38 GMT
Many more were unable to adapt and were cut adrift from society by a heartless government who didn't believe a society even existed. If you don't think at least an element of that approach sowed what we are reaping now, SB, then your head is further in the sand than I thought.
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Post by PotteringThrough on May 29, 2008 11:54:26 GMT
Love this quote
"His 24-year-old daughter lives at home and is still waiting for a council house. Immigrants, he claims, always seem to get set up with houses."
Maybe she should try getting a job?
Anyway, Labour have let the city down big time over the last few years and the government is only helping the rich get richer. The BNP have taken the opportunity to seize the parts of the city that have been most let down and if labour don't realise this then they need to do something.
The warehouse industry has bought some jobs to the city but we need much more investment in our industry so that the manually skilled people we have residing in Bentilee and Abbey Hulton can utilist their talents - Its up to the government and local council to generate this industry!
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 29, 2008 11:58:02 GMT
So then what makes a pure blood Englishman?
From knowledge of history it's abit of French, German and Viking mixed in with celt (so that's Ireland, Scotland, Wales etc.) ;D
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Post by PotteringThrough on May 29, 2008 11:58:30 GMT
I suppose some would be quite good mechanics, especially when the key doesn't work!
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 29, 2008 11:59:01 GMT
The warehouse industry has bought some jobs to the city but we need much more investment in our industry so that the manually skilled people we have residing in Bentilee and Abbey Hulton can utilist their talents - Its up to the government and local council to generate this industry! Locksmiths and glaziers or pub to pub salesmen? In the mean time why don't they do jobs that the immigrants do? This would surely sort it out?
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Post by TheDee51 on May 29, 2008 12:00:04 GMT
Many more were unable to adapt and were cut adrift from society by a heartless government who didn't believe a society even existed. If you don't think at least an element of that approach sowed what we are reaping now, SB, then your head is further in the sand than I thought. How many more years are you going to blame the last Conservatory government for us being where we are today FFS. Labour are'nt to blame for anything are they
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Post by PotteringThrough on May 29, 2008 12:08:32 GMT
In the mean time why don't they do jobs that the immigrants do? This would surely sort it out? No, because the jobs wouldn't get done at all then!
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Post by OldStokie on May 29, 2008 12:17:49 GMT
I don't think many are advocating that the Labour Party have not played their part in the present state of affairs. The Guardian piece makes that quite clear as do many Labour supporters and activists. Both major parties have created an atmosphere of social injustice that is now leading to a growth of the BNP...which is the real topic of this debate. The BNP are simply filling the vacuum that successive government policies have created. Unfortunately, those who are voting BNP don't actually know what they are really voting for. As Momo has said, if you dig into their real agenda, it becomes a frightening prospect.
OS.
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Post by Rebelliousjukebox on May 29, 2008 12:19:22 GMT
The warehouse industry has bought some jobs to the city but we need much more investment in our industry so that the manually skilled people we have residing in Bentilee and Abbey Hulton can utilist their talents - Its up to the government and local council to generate this industry! Locksmiths and glaziers or pub to pub salesmen? In the mean time why don't they do jobs that the immigrants do? This would surely sort it out? A couple of years ago there was a documentary about immigration which focused on Boston in Lincolnshire where there's been some racial disturbances (a Portuguese restaurant trashed for example), and where there are a lot of immigrant workers doing the low paid menial jobs in the fields picking veg. The interviewer went into a pub in the town to interview white unemployed working class men, all of whom were complaining about the immigrants taking "our jobs", but when asked whether they'd do the jobs the answer was unanimously "you must be fucking joking, those are shit jobs".
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 29, 2008 12:21:19 GMT
In the mean time why don't they do jobs that the immigrants do? This would surely sort it out? A couple of years ago there was a documentary about immigration which focused on Boston in Lincolnshire where there's been some racial disturbances (a Portuguese restaurant trashed for example), and where there are a lot of immigrant workers doing the low paid menial jobs in the fields picking veg. The interviewer went into a pub in the town to interview white unemployed working class men, all of whom were complaining about the immigrants taking "our jobs", but when asked whether they'd do the jobs the answer was unanimously "you must be fucking joking, those are shit jobs". That doesn't surprise me at all.
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Post by OldStokie on May 29, 2008 12:40:08 GMT
Ahhh...something I can really get my teeth into and which I know something about. My neice, who lives in Lincolnshire, is one of those who, after spending a month doing it, refused to take the jobs you are referring to. Let me explain what they entail. You are picked up from a central point at 5 am and taken to a number of places of work. The reason you're picked up at 5 is because it takes 3 hours to get the last one's onto the sites for 8. You don't start work until 8 even if you're dropped off earlier. You then work until 5 with an hour's unpaid break. If the weather is bad, you're sent back home, but even so, you have to be there at 5 whether or not you get a day's work. The reverse happens in the evening and you get back to the dropping off point at 8 pm. So, that's 15 hours a day and paid only 8. Minimum wage of course. So, the maximum you can earn is £200 a week, but if it's raining all week, you get nowt. Of course, you can't sign on when the weather is bad because you've got a job. Not so attractive now is it? How many on here would do that? OS.
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 29, 2008 12:57:45 GMT
Ahhh...something I can really get my teeth into and which I know something about. My neice, who lives in Lincolnshire, is one of those who, after spending a month doing it, refused to take the jobs you are referring to. Let me explain what they entail. You are picked up from a central point at 5 am and taken to a number of places of work. The reason you're picked up at 5 is because it takes 3 hours to get the last one's onto the sites for 8. You don't start work until 8 even if you're dropped off earlier. You then work until 5 with an hour's unpaid break. If the weather is bad, you're sent back home, but even so, you have to be there at 5 whether or not you get a day's work. The reverse happens in the evening and you get back to the dropping off point at 8 pm. So, that's 15 hours a day and paid only 8. Minimum wage of course. So, the maximum you can earn is £200 a week, but if it's raining all week, you get nowt. Of course, you can't sign on when the weather is bad because you've got a job. Not so attractive now is it? How many on here would do that? OS. That's what you get when you deregulate labour markets and emasculate Unions. All contributory factors, one way or another to the current malaise. The fact that Eastern European builders can charge less for jobs because they are happy to sleep ten to a house to save on outgoings is another case in point. Unions fought for a hundred years to get rid of this level of squalor for working men, yet many put this up as a great spirit of enterprise. Why don't we go the whole hog and start putting 6 year olds up chimneys again.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2008 12:58:07 GMT
OS,
You're right, many wouldn't do that job but surely it's the fact that the migrants are prepared to do the work, and are readily available, that's allowed employers to set hours\wages at such a level?
If the immigrant labour wasn't available then the employers would have had to set hours\wages at a level that matches the local cost of living. The fruit wouldn't get picked otherwise.
The issue of having to pay nationals more to help them meet their ever-increasing council tax\tax\living costs is another matter. Big fat inefficient government needs big fat tax receipts which means that employers have to pay more to help people make ends meet - obviously this gives them the choice of lower profits or resorting to cheap immigrant labour.
Guess which option they go for?
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Post by Rebelliousjukebox on May 29, 2008 16:28:02 GMT
Ahhh...something I can really get my teeth into and which I know something about. My neice, who lives in Lincolnshire, is one of those who, after spending a month doing it, refused to take the jobs you are referring to. Let me explain what they entail. You are picked up from a central point at 5 am and taken to a number of places of work. The reason you're picked up at 5 is because it takes 3 hours to get the last one's onto the sites for 8. You don't start work until 8 even if you're dropped off earlier. You then work until 5 with an hour's unpaid break. If the weather is bad, you're sent back home, but even so, you have to be there at 5 whether or not you get a day's work. The reverse happens in the evening and you get back to the dropping off point at 8 pm. So, that's 15 hours a day and paid only 8. Minimum wage of course. So, the maximum you can earn is £200 a week, but if it's raining all week, you get nowt. Of course, you can't sign on when the weather is bad because you've got a job. Not so attractive now is it? How many on here would do that? OS. Quite right OS, but my point was that those who were complaining about "all these immigrants coming over here and taking our jobs" were complaining about the jobs that they wouldn't (not unreasonably) do because of the crapness of them - a bit like having your cake and eating it.
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