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Post by jacksscfc on May 28, 2008 16:41:29 GMT
I have looked into their history.
There have been more Tory and Labour MP's who abuse their position than I care to remember (Archer an example). Labour MP's cash for privilages (brushed under the carpet).
I ask the question again show me (or explain) just 1 policy the BNP advocate that you class as racist?
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 28, 2008 16:43:39 GMT
I have looked into their history. There have been more Tory and Labour MP's who abuse their position than I care to remember (Archer an example). Labour MP's cash for privilages (brushed under the carpet). I ask the question again show me (or explain) just 1 policy the BNP advocate that you class as racist? Read what Momo put and see why you won't find any.
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Post by Rebelliousjukebox on May 28, 2008 18:22:01 GMT
RVD, In answer to your question. No I don't blame the Muslim's, as I have stated I blame the Council and Government, thats why I voted BNP. BNP's solutions to some of these problems are: Close our borders to any more immigrants (worked in Australia) Deportation for criminal offenders (without appeal) Show common sense (instead of political madness) Abolish free housing for immigrants already here, and no health care unless contributing to the Tax system. There are other policy's but the above are just an example for you. Hope I have answered your question, you can acquire more information out if you speak to a BNP candidate I'm sure they would be happy to talk to you Please explain to me, since you are obviously a BNP supporter or member:- Their policies on immigration - would they apply to ALL immigrants, or only those whom the BNP deem to be of a different race or culture? For example, would the closing borders to all immigrants include not letting in white people from America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa etc.?
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Post by thepremierbanksy on May 28, 2008 18:42:19 GMT
I've taken the time to go to the BNP website, and they do have a manifesto. I would post it all but it's rather Ted-esque, but you can find it here should you be interested www.bnp.org.uk/2008/02/bnp-policies/ You can also buy a mug with BNP written on it, the letters filled in with the colours of the union jack. Here are a couple of key subheadings: IMMIGRATION - time to say ENOUGH!
On current demographic trends, we, the native British people, will be an ethnic minority in our own country within sixty years. To ensure that this does not happen, and that the British people retain their homeland and identity, we call for an immediate halt to all further immigration, the immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants, and the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question. We will abolish the ‘positive discrimination’ schemes that have made white Britons second-class citizens. We will also clamp down on the flood of ‘asylum seekers’, all of whom are either bogus or can find refuge much nearer their home countries.I especially enjoy the prospect here of an "indigenous" British population, considering the historical repeated invasions of Britain. They do not really discuss the numbers of people leaving the uk (approx 400k a year compared to approx 550k entering) and presumably there'd be a shortfall in labour etc considering the ever expanding elderley population and the publicised shortfall of births in the UK that was being discussed last year. Would they ban emmigration as well given the choice? I also cracked a wry smile to the prospect of them actually wanting to pay immigrants to fuck off and their native countries to accept them back. I wonder what sort of fees would be involved? Would there be some sort of bulk discount? I can see them now going down to Shelton with a fleet of coaches and a few cattle prods trying to do things on the cheap. Where is the line drawn with legal immigrants? Surely most will have children born here who count toward the "indigenous" population, so do we break apart the families or send the first generation families back, and send their kids with them? EDUCATION - discipline, standards, achievement!
We are against the ‘trendy’ teaching methods that have made Britain one of the most poorly educated nations in Europe. We will end the practice of politically correct indoctrination in all its guises and we will restore discipline in the classroom, give authority back to teachers and put far greater emphasis on training young people in the industrial and technological skills necessary in the modern world. We will also seek to instill in our young people knowledge of and pride in the history, cultures and heritage of the native peoples of Britain.The trendy teaching methods is what gets me here, nevermind the undercurrent of a return to the birch and the daily singing of the national anthem (although i am reading between the lines there). Just think that new teaching methods such as phonics, proven to improve all aspects of language in children, would be done away with pretty much because Mr Griffin and co. never experienced them during their days as boys and girls.
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Post by lommack on May 28, 2008 18:55:57 GMT
Surely they forgot to add
And we will hold daily burning ceremonies on the school playing fields of any book that contradicts anything we say ever
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Post by thepremierbanksy on May 28, 2008 19:16:35 GMT
Sorry to spam the board with the long copy&pastes, but I also read this excellent piece in the Indepedent on the train back to London the day after our promotion, and I think it's worth posting here.
Johann Hari: BNP votes are a cry of white working-class anguish
We dismiss them as 'chavs', 'pikeys' and racists, and jeer at their names
Monday, 5 May 2008 The London results were so bleak the election coverage soon turned into an edition of Have I Got Noose For You. Mayor Boris has gone from punch-line to punch-out, and I watched it all in a black cloud, waiting for his pledge to rule on behalf of all Londoners – white, Asian or piccaninny.
But there is worse news still: the far right have seized their fattest electoral prize since the 1930s. The British National Party now have a seat in the London Assembly, continuing a dramatic rise: in 1992, it won 7,005 votes nationally; by 2005 it hit 192,746. This is their most effective lurch into the mainstream yet.
Of course, it’s tempting to ask: does this ugly protest vote matter? The BNP will never take power – so let them spew their bile from isolated seats. But whenever I think this, I remember Robert Cottage. In the most under-reported story of the past year, this 49 year-old BNP election candidate was discovered to have stock-piled explosives and bomb-making manuals in his house. He wanted to use them in a “race war”; they were found along with a letter from BNP leader Nick Griffin thanking him for his hard work. Cottage’s wife believed joining the party had led to this point, saying, “The BNP changed him.” This isn’t new: the Soho nail-bomber was a BNP activist, as are many members of Combat 18. As the party grows, the opportunities for men like this to be hoovered up into far right radicalism swell.
Yet there is a big difference between the party and its voters. It would be easy to say the BNP vote represents simply the remaining rancid scraps of racism – but it’s not true. I spent last Thursday canvassing the vast concrete estates of East London, where I live, and I spoke to half-a-dozen openly pro-BNP voters. They were not straightforwardly bigoted: one single mum said she would vote BNP “if my kids weren’t mixed race.” Instead, they were angry and alienated, and the BNP seemed to them to be the sharpest needle to jab into the eye of the political process; as one fiftysomething white woman said, “I just want to tell politicians to fuck off.”
How do we persuade these voters to make better choices? The first step is the easiest: expose the party for what they really are. The BNP has tried to rebrand itself, hoping we will forget its founder declared “Mein Kampf is my Bible”, and its current leader attacks even David Irvine for admitting some Jews died in the “Holohoax.” This leads to the second step: stop trying to silence them. The trial of Nick Griffin for hate-speech wasn’t just immoral – he has a right to free speech, no matter how foul – but also dumb politics. The way to discredit the BNP is for people to hear what they say. No more no platforms: take them on. Read out their pro-Hitler quotes. Watch them implode.
But we also need to address the biggest worries of BNP voters. Most of them are anxious about immigration not because they don’t want different-looking people walking the streets, but because they feel it damages them, in three distinct ways: through housing, wages, and the unequal provision of public services.
Of course we have to start by debunking the Littlejohnian lies. No, asylum seekers are not “hosed down” with benefits: a single asylum seeker struggles by on forty-four quid a week. No, they are not put ahead of you in housing queues: some 90 percent of people in council houses were born in Britain, and only 5 percent each year go to recent arrivals. No, they don’t commit more crime: the Association of Chief Police Officers says so. But not all their concerns are based on myths pumped out by bigots; many are real, and legitimate.
Let’s start with council housing. We need to say: yes, it is a scandal. The Thatcher policy of selling off council houses was a good way of spreading property ownership – but the Tories didn’t put the proceeds into building more new council homes. Instead, they frittered them away on tax cuts for the rich, and for ten years, Labour let the waiting lists sky-rocket and the housing stock deteriorate. The fact this coincided with a rise in new immigrants – who almost all live in private rented accommodation – created the false impression they were linked. The best tactic to stymie the BNP is a huge programme of council house construction, immediately.
How about wages? It’s true that immigrants boost the economy overall, and boost public services and pensions because they pay back £6bn more than they take from the Exchequer. But it’s also true that British people don’t benefit equally from it. It’s simply a fact that if you significantly increase the supply of cheap labour, the hourly rate for it comes down: that’s why wages for builders and waitresses and cleaners have barely budged for ten years now. For people on the lowest wages, immigration does depress their wages, and it is wrong to deny this, or wave it away as unimportant. Instead, we must advocate a simple non-sectarian answer: a higher minimum wage. A campaign calling for this creates a new dividing line: instead of the white working class vs. immigrants, it puts the white working class and immigrants side-by-side, against the CBI and the super-rich who want to preserve their vast profits at their expense.
And what about ethnic divisions in public services? Again this is uncomfortable to face, but we have to be honest about it. If you build a Bengali community centre, you create demand for a ‘white’ community centre to match it. Faith schools are the worst offenders, dividing up communities on ethnic lines when they are at their most impressionable: Muslim kids this way, white kids that way. How can we be surprised if people then convert this tribalism into their political preferences too? Our public services need to be run so they bind us together, not carve us into ethnic chunks.
But instead of offering these solutions, we have turned the white working class into a national punch-line. We dismiss them as “chavs”, “pikeys” and racists, and jeer at their clothes, voices and names. So we don’t really have the right to act surprised when they vote in a way designed to tell us – as the woman standing in her damp flat, carrying bags of economy-brand food from Iceland, told me – to “fuck off.”
j.hari@independent.co.uk
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Post by Cupid Stunt on May 28, 2008 20:42:19 GMT
BNP = Racist party
Why?
Because The BNP is not a legitmate political party. It is a fascist organisation dedicated to the political tradition of Hitler and Mussolini. Hitler's Nazi Germany saw the extermination of 6 million Jews as well as million of eastern Europeans, trade unionists, homosexuals, the disabled and gypsies. Yet BNP leader Nick Griffin pretends this all amyth, and that the holocaust never took place. Many BNP members have been involved in racist attacks, the BNP isn't just a bunch of thugs though, it is a party that wants to smash every last bit of democracy and replace it with a fascisr regime.
Explain how that is not racist?
It is important the British public show the BNP's message of hate is not welcomed in our multicultural society!!!!!!!
RANT OVER
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2008 21:15:11 GMT
None of this when the tories were in power now 11 years of labour the bnp could take Stoke. Very very sad..
If some bother to look at what the bnp is about, there polices are LEFT WING. Yes LEFT WING.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on May 28, 2008 21:54:14 GMT
"The BNP's message is not welcolmed in our multicultural society"
No message will be welcomed domsmith, unless you edit it first
Left to wankers like you every street in England will have a mosque on the end of it in 30 years time
i
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Post by beagriestache on May 28, 2008 22:27:20 GMT
Interesting thread. One thing which keeps being repeated here is that this country is going downhill/to ruin/disappearing fast etc. Is it really? Unemployment is low, inflation is low, crime is on its way down (violent crime is an exception granted, especially amongst the young), the NHS is in a better state than it was a decade and a half ago, likewise the education system. Motoring has never been cheaper. Disagree? Explain to me how there is a 2% increase in vehicles on our roads year after year. If so many haulage firms are struggling, how come the two inside lanes of the M6 are virtually unusable for cars between 8 and 6 o'clock weekdays as a result of all the lorries. Everybody seems to have a big screen tv, a satnav, a PC, an Ipod. Everyone goes abroad for their holidays. All these luxuries were unachievable in the seventies. To me it appears that we are all pretty comfortable in the UK (not rich but comfortable) and it's shitty newspapers like the red tops and the Mail and Express who promote the hate agenda because they can't bang on about the standard of living anymore. We seem to have lost a sense of perspective about just how fortunate we are. This is my genuine opinion. Be nice to think you could reply in a calm fashion if you disagree.
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Post by Norfolkstokie in manchester on May 28, 2008 23:29:01 GMT
The British people voted to JOIN the EU in the 1970s- by about 3:1 I think. All the main parties support membership.
I remember seeing a BNP policy that was to prevent terrorism: they would ban ALL Muslims from flying. They tried to justify this by saying that white working class men had been banned from travelling to Germany in 2006 (world cup). Suprisingly, no mention of why those specific people were banned. Is that not a racist policy ???
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Post by peterthorne on May 28, 2008 23:54:48 GMT
wizardofdribble, are you just plain stupid? do you actualy think it will just stop with asians no next it it will be polish and eastern europeans and it will go on and on untill there is just a white protestant population and then all there is left to blame all your childish problems on is each and then what will you do?
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Post by samstoke on May 29, 2008 3:37:23 GMT
The saddest part is the ramming home of the point about how few people are actually working in this city. Some of the most ardent BNP voters I've met do not work and have no intention of doing so, yet never stop going on about people coming here and nicking jobs!!! You just want to bang your head against a wall in frustration. The thing that is killing this country is dole-spongers and disability benefit con-artists, of all races and colours, who're screwing genuinely hard working people into the ground. That is the disgrace of this country and I'd vote for anyone who was genuinely sincere about doing something about it. Karma! Sums up exactly where I stand. I'm at work now by the way, on the night shift at the Sainsburys warehouse. Working my bollocks off to earn my keep, as I should.
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Post by Rebelliousjukebox on May 29, 2008 7:12:47 GMT
wizardofdribble, are you just plain stupid? do you actualy think it will just stop with asians no next it it will be polish and eastern europeans and it will go on and on untill there is just a white protestant population and then all there is left to blame all your childish problems on is each and then what will you do? PT, I've posted this quote on here before, but nicely sums up what you're saying:- "First they came for the Communists but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists but I was not one of them, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews but I was not Jewish so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." Martin Niemoeller (a German Pastor, about the Nazis).
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2008 8:13:30 GMT
'Unemployment is low, inflation is low, crime is on its way down (violent crime is an exception granted, especially amongst the young), the NHS is in a better state than it was a decade and a half ago, likewise the education system.' You really need to learn to read between the lies.
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Post by Cupid Stunt on May 29, 2008 8:55:15 GMT
wizard of dribble it is tossers like you that think ethnic minorities are the people to blame because this country is going downhill, although I don't think it is, Brown has just fucked up. I'm sorry but you are either racist or stupid if you vote BNP
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Post by TheDee51 on May 29, 2008 9:01:30 GMT
"Motoring has never been cheaper. Disagree? Explain to me how there is a 2% increase in vehicles on our roads year after year. If so many haulage firms are struggling, how come the two inside lanes of the M6 are virtually unusable for cars between 8 and 6 o'clock weekdays as a result of all the lorries."
Are you on something mate? Are you actually living in Britain? Have you been watching the News?
This is definitely the most dis-illusioned quote of the week.
Sidders - spot on mate.
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Post by OldStokie on May 29, 2008 9:03:46 GMT
Sorry if this is 'Tedesque', but there's no short way of saying this. This situation is very similar to Germany after the 1st world war. The Versailles Treaty kept the German masses down and destroyed the fabric of their society causing mass unemployment or jobs that paid so little, it was difficult to feed your family. In that social climate, it was easy to enrol the less intelligent and brainwash them into thinking all their ills could be cured by natural selection of the fittest and doing away with those who did not conform. Nationalism is a powerful tool, but in the wrong hands, it can lead to what went on in Nazi Germany. Contrast that with the actions of the Allies after the 2nd world war. Instead of punishing the vanquished, they rebuilt their infrastructure and the results of those policies can be seen today. Both Germany and Japan are two of the most democratic nations on earth now and both are non-aggressive. What does this have to do with the original article of this thread? Maggie Thatcher is an example of the Versailles Treaty. Crush the masses; take away their ability to do an honest day's work; create ghettos and keep them in their place. Even massage the figures so that society doesn't know the true effect of unemployment. That's easier than you think. Just get as many on Incapacity Benefit as you can and exclude them from the figures. Others too. Those under 18 can't be counted: the same with part time workers, etc., etc. The problem of those policies is that it creates an underclass; one that is ripe for the BNP to fester. After all, society doesn't give a toss for the underclasses...they're a by-product of 'success'. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way because one day, just as happened in Germany after the 1st world war, the underclasses will rise in their numbers under the leadership of fascism. That's what is happening in Bentilee and other areas of this city, and unless 'the powers that be' stop creating a low paid, non-working underclass, the BNP will continue to grow. Perhaps Cameron can do it. I dunno. What I do know is that successive governments since Thatcher, both Labour and Tory, have failed this city big style. We are what they have created and we should not blame the citizens of this once great, hard working city for their failings. OS.
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Post by lordeffinghamhunt on May 29, 2008 9:09:41 GMT
That isn't the Bentilee I know, Its more like past the two burned out cars, turn right by the house which is boarded up and you will come to the new 10 million pound Bentilee waste of money community center which will be full of dossers and teen mums with twin buggies!
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2008 9:22:28 GMT
OS,
Maggie never took away people's 'ability to' do an honest day's work. People working in some of the nationalised industries lost their jobs - that is a completely different thing.
Anybody who had the ability to FIND work and make an effort did so. The rest became the underclass you speak of, not because of Thatcher, but because our Welfare State has become a laughing stock.
You can apply your 'massaging figures' finger pointing more to Labour than you ever could the Tories. Unemployment figures in this day and age are probably far more misleading than they ever were under the Tories?
Why not accuse the people of Stoke-on-Trent for failing the city big time?
I reckon you could do with a spell in charge of this city. Only then would you probably realise that no matter what you try your ideas will be wasted on people who don't give a shit about working or contributing to society.
It's everyones fault but the people isn't it?
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Post by OldStokie on May 29, 2008 9:23:11 GMT
Mart...
...that's like putting s sticking plaster on a cancer. It's decent well paid work these people need...after you've reversed two or three generations worth of apathy towards it.
Sidders, I agree. Neither are doing what needs doing. That's why the BNP are prospering. It will get worse before it gets better. I hope it's sooner rather than later or we may end up being the city that brings Enoch Powel's words to fruition.
OS.
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Post by pattayapotter on May 29, 2008 9:25:55 GMT
Sorry if this is 'Tedesque', but there's no short way of saying this. This situation is very similar to Germany after the 1st world war. The Versailles Treaty kept the German masses down and destroyed the fabric of their society causing mass unemployment or jobs that paid so little, it was difficult to feed your family. In that social climate, it was easy to enrol the less intelligent and brainwash them into thinking all their ills could be cured by natural selection of the fittest and doing away with those who did not conform. Nationalism is a powerful tool, but in the wrong hands, it can lead to what went on in Nazi Germany. Contrast that with the actions of the Allies after the 2nd world war. Instead of punishing the vanquished, they rebuilt their infrastructure and the results of those policies can be seen today. Both Germany and Japan are two of the most democratic nations on earth now and both are non-aggressive. What does this have to do with the original article of this thread? Maggie Thatcher is an example of the Versailles Treaty. Crush the masses; take away their ability to do an honest day's work; create ghettos and keep them in their place. Even massage the figures so that society doesn't know the true effect of unemployment. That's easier than you think. Just get as many on Incapacity Benefit as you can and exclude them from the figures. Others too. Those under 18 can't be counted: the same with part time workers, etc., etc. The problem of those policies is that it creates an underclass; one that is ripe for the BNP to fester. After all, society doesn't give a toss for the underclasses...they're a by-product of 'success'. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way because one day, just as happened in Germany after the 1st world war, the underclasses will rise in their numbers under the leadership of fascism. That's what is happening in Bentilee and other areas of this city, and unless 'the powers that be' stop creating a low paid, non-working underclass, the BNP will continue to grow. Perhaps Cameron can do it. I dunno. What I do know is that successive governments since Thatcher, both Labour and Tory, have failed this city big style. We are what they have created and we should not blame the citizens of this once great, hard working city for their failings. OS. Have some Karma OS I agree with 98% of what you say here Japanese and Cameron, huh ?? ;D
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Post by pattayapotter on May 29, 2008 9:39:05 GMT
OS, Maggie never took away people's 'ability to' do an honest day's work. People working in some of the nationalised industries lost their jobs - that is a completely different thing. Anybody who had the ability to FIND work and make an effort did so. The rest became the underclass you speak of, not because of Thatcher, but because our Welfare State has become a laughing stock. You can apply your 'massaging figures' finger pointing more to Labour than you ever could the Tories. Unemployment figures in this day and age are probably far more misleading than they ever were under the Tories? Why not accuse the people of Stoke-on-Trent for failing the city big time? I reckon you could do with a spell in charge of this city. Only then would you probably realise that no matter what you try your ideas will be wasted on people who don't give a shit about working or contributing to society. It's everyones fault but the people isn't it? A very self-indulging ill-informed statement from the right honorable gentlemen typifying words of Toryism. Why would these dole scrounging underclass want to work when they have it on plate? Why not make it worth they're while and pay them a proper wage something worth getting out of bed for? They are being allowed to get away with it and this was started by the milk snatcher, Thatcher's children and Grandchildren now we are reeping those benefits (pardon the punt). Labour we has screwed it up but going back to them dark Tory days will never be the answer, which is why people are voting BNP, and this says alot about the Tory Party
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 29, 2008 9:41:24 GMT
OS, Maggie never took away people's 'ability to' do an honest day's work. People working in some of the nationalised industries lost their jobs - that is a completely different thing. Anybody who had the ability to FIND work and make an effort did so. The rest became the underclass you speak of, not because of Thatcher, but because our Welfare State has become a laughing stock. You can apply your 'massaging figures' finger pointing more to Labour than you ever could the Tories. Unemployment figures in this day and age are probably far more misleading than they ever were under the Tories? Why not accuse the people of Stoke-on-Trent for failing the city big time? I reckon you could do with a spell in charge of this city. Only then would you probably realise that no matter what you try your ideas will be wasted on people who don't give a shit about working or contributing to society. It's everyones fault but the people isn't it? Squareball it is estimated that if the the same method of calculation for unemployemt was used in the early 80s as it was in 1978, when apparently Labour wasn't working, there were 5.5 Million people unemployed in this country. She didn't take away people's ability to work in huge swathes of this nation? Give fucking over man. She admitted herself it was a price worth paying well a lot of the price is being paid now.
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Post by OldStokie on May 29, 2008 9:45:35 GMT
Squareball, you and I are are not so far apart in our thinking. I believe in the same work ethic as you. I can honestly say that I've never been on the dole in my life. Even now I'm almost 70, I still do at least 8 hours a day work of some sort. However, I'm the exception rather than the norm and I accept that. You should too. It seems to me that you refuse to look at the bigger picture. All that I have said is true. You are right about a welfare system that rewards those who don't want to work. However, the alternative is to create an even bigger underclass and create more social dissention if you are going to cut benefits and make people work for peanuts. The best way of making people work is by rewarding them well for doing so. You won't do that by creating a minimum wage environment which is what we have now. Our city was based on incentives. Potters were paid piecework. Mineworkers were paid bonuses and the harder work you did, the more money you got. I was on PLA when I worked down the pits... the highest paid rate except for firemen and under-managers. I earned my money working in the cruts - probably, along with face workers, the most dangerous job down the pit. Why has our city been so neglected? The West Midlands when they had their motor industry decimated were made special cases and the high wage jobs they had were replaced with high paid jobs. That hasn't happpened here. The high paid jobs have been replaced with low paid ones. Many of the residents of Bentilee were miners...the same with Coalville. Yes, they may have been rough areas but they were working rough areas. You need to look at the bigger picture. The next thing you'll be complaining about is that the ones who have been chucked off benefit are making up their money by burgling Meir Heath on a daily basis. OS.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 29, 2008 9:48:00 GMT
OS spot on. The Versailles Treaty and the Weimar government policies led to the rise of Nazis. In Weimar Germany it cost a wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread. The Nazi's played on a strong economy and making Germany a stronger country. The extermination of a race came later. This is the same as what the BNP would do. Play on peoples economic and national fears and then when in total control they woud get rid of the foreigners. Maybe not by gassing them but by violence and fear most defineately.
I wonder if they'd get rid of the Queen? Or maybe themselves? As all English people are mix of invaders from all around Europe. We are a mongrel nation anyway. German, French, Spanish, Italian, Scandinavean etc etc all make up Your typical Englishman.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2008 9:49:32 GMT
I don't dispute that there could have been 5.5 million on the dole in the 80s. Many nationalised industries\sites were shutting down
Are you saying that it would have been possible to make wholesale changes to the way the country worked and keep people in full employment at the same time?
You typify the general Labour voter - don't want to vote for somebody who might make tough decisions.
And remember, a government doesn't remove your ability to work. YOU do.
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Post by OldStokie on May 29, 2008 9:51:44 GMT
I have to go now. I have some serious editing to do. A woman's work is never done. Enjoy the debate. Tara. OS.
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 29, 2008 9:53:20 GMT
"And remember, a government doesn't remove your ability to work. YOU do"
Tell that to the people of the Valleys where at times in the early 80s unemployment ran to around 90%. Were they all being idle in your eyes SB or could it be that a flawed Political doctrine had decimated their community and said fuck the consequences?
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2008 9:58:59 GMT
OS,
The big difference between us is that I aportion some blame to the people of the city whereas you appear to want to blame government\others.
The new, better paid, work will come once our kids and their parents begin to realise the link between education and opportunity. We attract the companies that match our educational standards so the situation isn't going to change for a long time.
So, if many of our kids make no effort in school and become accustomed to living on the state then nothing much will change. I don't blame the government or the council for that - I blame the kids and their parents.
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