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Post by flea79 on Aug 21, 2018 8:16:27 GMT
Yes there's a massive difference but this incident clearly took place after the damaging of the exit door, which the police had obviously prevented from continuing. So I'm still not sure what the police were actually trying to achieve with their coordinated attack. What would have happened if they had simply just STOOD there and waited for the second half to start? Nothing was being thrown at them, no punches or kicks were being aimed at them, what was is it exactly that they were even trying to prevent? Over the years, I've seen numerous incidents of drunken, rowdy, fans bouncing up and down and gobbing off at the police but I genuinely can't ever remember a coordinated attack of multiple pepper sprays being used as a response to it from the police. Those questions will hopefully be examined at the meeting tomorrow Paul in the context of the guidance on when PAVA should be deployed. from my reading on the NPCC guidelines on the use of these sprays the use is down to the officer holding it inside of other legal frameworks, cant wait to see the justifications, or have i read it wrong?
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Post by Waggy on Aug 21, 2018 8:20:20 GMT
What the Stoke fans did was tame compared to some youtube videos i have seen at football grounds. Shame on the Police.
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Post by xchpotter on Aug 21, 2018 8:25:44 GMT
Those questions will hopefully be examined at the meeting tomorrow Paul in the context of the guidance on when PAVA should be deployed. from my reading on the NPCC guidelines on the use of these sprays the use is down to the officer holding it inside of other legal frameworks, cant wait to see the justifications, or have i read it wrong? Take a look at Section 3 Ciminal Law Act 1967, Section 117 PACE 1984 and Common Law powers around use of force. They should give you an idea of any potential justifications that may be put forward.
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Post by ursemboys on Aug 21, 2018 8:53:43 GMT
I have lived close to Preston for 40 years now and in all that time never had a issue with the Lancashire police force ( i have never given them any reason) i have also on occasion asked for their assistance in times of need and have been treated with utmost respect. I was not at the game but if reports of trying to break down exit doors are true this in my opinion is the kind of action which cannot be tolerated and should not be condoned by any Stoke supporters. Lancashire Police at football games won’t be your average PC plod that comes round when you’ve got a junkie in your shed. PC plod coming around to your shed ,now you are talking shit ,when was the last time you saw PC plod anywhere never mind in your shed lol
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Aug 21, 2018 9:01:23 GMT
Why was the exit door not open at half time? Does that need investigation? Some stewards may need a reprimand. It’s down to the policy of each individual club, not stewards, whether to allow fans out at halftime for a smoke. It is something the FSF encourages wherever possible. It partly depends on the layout outside the ground and such factors as how easy is it to maintain home/away segregation if both are allowed out. I hope Preston will have another look at that. It did occur to me that it must have been tempting for the stewards faced with attempts to break the doors open to open them , let the smokers out and close the doors behind them not be reopened. Although that would probably have caused break down attempts from the other side.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Aug 21, 2018 9:20:02 GMT
Why was the exit door not open at half time? Does that need investigation? Some stewards may need a reprimand. It’s down to the policy of each individual club, not stewards, whether to allow fans out at halftime for a smoke. It is something the FSF encourages wherever possible. It partly depends on the layout outside the ground and such factors as how easy is it to maintain home/away segregation if both are allowed out. I hope Preston will have another look at that. It did occur to me that it must have been tempting for the stewards faced with attempts to break the doors open to open them , let the smokers out and close the doors behind them not be reopened. Although that would probably have caused break down attempts from the other side. That would 100% be grounds for spraying them in the face.
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Post by Northy on Aug 21, 2018 9:21:51 GMT
This incident will probably ensure our ticket allocation at games like Blackburn will be reduced again. That is a real worry I think And the ones who caused the trouble will no doubt be at the front of the queue for tickets
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Post by Northy on Aug 21, 2018 9:25:12 GMT
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Post by musik on Aug 21, 2018 10:58:41 GMT
It’s down to the policy of each individual club, not stewards, whether to allow fans out at halftime for a smoke. What happens if you must leave the game at half time without coming back? Is it impossible? I think people will smoke where they sit if they can't get out.
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Post by kristoff on Aug 21, 2018 11:11:13 GMT
Not a violent person In anyway, but perhaps if people stopped trying to rip the police to pieces every time they slap some of the wastes of oxygen we have In this country it might be a better place. As for the pepper spray, sorry I 100% support the police. If an officer tells you to do something, you fucking well do it, if you don’t then you deserve everything you get. Is it extremely unfortunate that kids and ‘innocents’ got hit, of course, but having been hurt when our ‘fans’ decide they are billy big bollocks in the past then I do question why they and the parents were anywhere near.
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Post by Northy on Aug 21, 2018 11:18:13 GMT
It’s down to the policy of each individual club, not stewards, whether to allow fans out at halftime for a smoke. What happens if you must leave the game at half time without coming back? Is it impossible? I think people will smoke where they sit if they can't get out. Yes it is possible.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Aug 21, 2018 11:58:52 GMT
Not a violent person In anyway, but perhaps if people stopped trying to rip the police to pieces every time they slap some of the wastes of oxygen we have In this country it might be a better place. As for the pepper spray, sorry I 100% support the police. If an officer tells you to do something, you fucking well do it, if you don’t then you deserve everything you get. Is it extremely unfortunate that kids and ‘innocents’ got hit, of course, but having been hurt when our ‘fans’ decide they are billy big bollocks in the past then I do question why they and the parents were anywhere near. Disgraceful, absolutely disgraceful. Oppressive, authoritarian, jackboot-licking nonsense.
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Post by musik on Aug 21, 2018 11:59:00 GMT
What happens if you must leave the game at half time without coming back? A) Is it impossible? B) I think people will smoke where they sit if they can't get out. Yes it is possible. Both A and B?
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Post by ursemboys on Aug 21, 2018 12:05:54 GMT
I Just wonder if the police would get the pepper spray out when there is a demo in London with them who should not be mentioned . Also i would love see that many coppers patrolling our home towns when the monkey boys are off the trees
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Aug 21, 2018 12:12:11 GMT
Why was the exit door not open at half time? Does that need investigation? Some stewards may need a reprimand. It’s down to the policy of each individual club, not stewards, whether to allow fans out at halftime for a smoke. It is something the FSF encourages wherever possible. It partly depends on the layout outside the ground and such factors as how easy is it to maintain home/away segregation if both are allowed out. I hope Preston will have another look at that. It did occur to me that it must have been tempting for the stewards faced with attempts to break the doors open to open them , let the smokers out and close the doors behind them not be reopened. Although that would probably have caused break down attempts from the other side. I think you should be campaigning for a smoking area for all fans Malcolm , I dont smoke and the experience of the toilets at away games where people are not let out is awful , imagine taking your kid into that for a toilet stop . Seems a real absence of common sense on this incident all round to me , but thats 2018 for you .
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Post by expectedtoulouse on Aug 21, 2018 12:14:55 GMT
Unfortunately we have quite a collection of retards that frequent the concourse areas at away games that need sorting out. Smoking, beer chucking, vandalism etc its just pathetic. These people need weeding out and chucking out the ground full stop. The authorities don’t have the balls to do this however.
The pepper spray incident is completely unacceptable and they should all lose their jobs. There was no threat to the safety of the officers, nobody was approaching them and they collectively used the spray in an indiscriminate manner according to the footage. Completely against the guidelines too.
The minor incident also appears to be completely unacceptable. No matter the individual, there’s never a need to strike someone in the face.
Hopefully the FSF will achieve the same positive results like the Irlam incidents.
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Post by kristoff on Aug 21, 2018 12:46:55 GMT
Unfortunately we have quite a collection of retards that frequent the concourse areas at away games that need sorting out. Smoking, beer chucking, vandalism etc its just pathetic. These people need weeding out and chucking out the ground full stop. The authorities don’t have the balls to do this however. The pepper spray incident is completely unacceptable and they should all lose their jobs. There was no threat to the safety of the officers, nobody was approaching them and they collectively used the spray in an indiscriminate manner according to the footage. Completely against the guidelines too. The minor incident also appears to be completely unacceptable. No matter the individual, there’s never a need to strike someone in the face. Hopefully the FSF will achieve the same positive results like the Irlam incidents. First half of your post is pretty much spot on. Second half is complete bollocks. She assaulted a police officer, any other country she’d have had more than a slap. Would you have preferred them to ask a few hundred times to please calm down whilst being assaulted? Or perhaps pepper spray or taser them instead?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 13:11:13 GMT
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Post by boothenboy75 on Aug 21, 2018 13:36:15 GMT
And we have plenty of self righteous pricks on here supporting the well over the top police actions.
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Post by kristoff on Aug 21, 2018 13:41:19 GMT
And we have plenty of self righteous pricks on here supporting the well over the top police actions. Yup, I support them 100%
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Aug 21, 2018 13:41:31 GMT
Unfortunately we have quite a collection of retards that frequent the concourse areas at away games that need sorting out. Smoking, beer chucking, vandalism etc its just pathetic. These people need weeding out and chucking out the ground full stop. The authorities don’t have the balls to do this however. The pepper spray incident is completely unacceptable and they should all lose their jobs. There was no threat to the safety of the officers, nobody was approaching them and they collectively used the spray in an indiscriminate manner according to the footage. Completely against the guidelines too. The minor incident also appears to be completely unacceptable. No matter the individual, there’s never a need to strike someone in the face. Hopefully the FSF will achieve the same positive results like the Irlam incidents. First half of your post is pretty much spot on. Second half is complete bollocks. She assaulted a police officer, any other country she’d have had more than a slap. Would you have preferred them to ask a few hundred times to please calm down whilst being assaulted? Or perhaps pepper spray or taser them instead? The OB are an institution as much as any some are good some bad , all are accountable or should be ove rthe years I have seen some awful policing at football and some good , your total faith seems misplaced to me
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Post by xchpotter on Aug 21, 2018 13:44:52 GMT
And we have plenty of self righteous pricks on here supporting the well over the top police actions. In the interest of balance there are plenty also trying to justify the actions of the fans too. All this is based upon 30 seconds of mobile phone footage. I’ll await the final outcome of any investigation before deciding whose actions were over the top.
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Post by boothenboy75 on Aug 21, 2018 13:48:00 GMT
And we have plenty of self righteous pricks on here supporting the well over the top police actions. Good for you. If you support innocent young stoke fans getting hurt because the police don’t follow their own guidelines... I’m all for banning and locking up the few knuckle draggers who support us. But that doesn’t mean you have to support what the police did, which was well out of order.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 13:48:19 GMT
And we have plenty of self righteous pricks on here supporting the well over the top police actions. In the interest of balance there are plenty also trying to justify the actions of the fans too. All this is based upon 30 seconds of mobile phone footage. I’ll await the final outcome of any investigation before deciding whose actions were over the top. Hardly anyone is trying to justify the actions of a minority of fans, that's incorrect. Almost everybody who disagrees is doing so based on the polices reaction being completely disproportionate to what was happening in front of them.....
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Post by boothenboy75 on Aug 21, 2018 13:48:57 GMT
And we have plenty of self righteous pricks on here supporting the well over the top police actions. In the interest of balance there are plenty also trying to justify the actions of the fans too. All this is based upon 30 seconds of mobile phone footage. I’ll await the final outcome of any investigation before deciding whose actions were over the top. Show me a single post that justify what our fans did.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Aug 21, 2018 13:51:42 GMT
And we have plenty of self righteous pricks on here supporting the well over the top police actions. In the interest of balance there are plenty also trying to justify the actions of the fans too. All this is based upon 30 seconds of mobile phone footage. I’ll await the final outcome of any investigation before deciding whose actions were over the top. Really? I can't recall anyone saying that, just criticism of a vastly disproportionate and violent reaction to what was little more than fairly tame anti-social behaviour.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 21, 2018 14:08:33 GMT
Shows that PAVA can and does hit people indiscriminately, despite people arguing on previous pages saying it was acceptable to use over CS because the guidelines state that cross contamination occurs in a "more limited way". Unless the police were being actively assaulted physically, I cannot understand how use of any incapcitant spray can be justified in such a confined space, with such a density of fans present.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 21, 2018 15:30:47 GMT
The use of pepper spray against Stoke fans in Preston was an over-reaction by the police to say the least.
It probably had as much to do with what happened in Blackpool a few hours earlier, when it 'kicked off' and flares got chucked around.
No doubt news of this incident filtered down to Preston Old Bill and they decided to take no prisoners.
Expect more of the same in future.
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Post by skemstokie on Aug 21, 2018 15:40:03 GMT
That is a real worry I think And the ones who caused the trouble will no doubt be at the front of the queue for tickets Surely with video evidence which is being used to assess the actions of the police this could also be used by the club to assess if any action needs to be taken against "supporters" ?
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Post by Waggy on Aug 21, 2018 15:58:08 GMT
The use of pepper spray against Stoke fans in Preston was an over-reaction by the police to say the least. It probably had as much to do with what happened in Blackpool a few hours earlier, when it 'kicked off' and flares got chucked around. No doubt news of this incident filtered down to Preston Old Bill and they decided to take no prisoners. Expect more of the same in future. If my face gets sprayed on a away game there will be a claim going in
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