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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Aug 20, 2018 13:08:14 GMT
Isn't the takeaway from this that if you behave like a knobhead some other knobhead might retaliate? The police shouldn't have acted like they did but then our "fans" in that video were an embarrassment. If you don't want to get pepper sprayed don't behave like a knobhead and if you see knobheads behaving like knobheads walk away. For some strange reason if you do this chances are you will go through life without being pepper sprayed. What really gets me is the bleating. Poor me not given licence to get pissed up and behave like a complete tool. If you can't take your drink at least take your pepper spray. Oh and please stop following Stoke. You're not wanted. The difference is though that pissed up fans being knobhead is them being private citizens, funding their shenanigans by themselves and that if they are a serious threat then they will get collared. A professional policeman has no business being a knobhead for some very obvious reasons. They should be totally beyond reproach. They should not get personally aggravated and they certainly should not let it inform their judgement. They need to set an example. They are charged with protecting the peace and keeping people safe, not responding with force unless every other option has been exhausted. They are employed to act within the rules and they are employed by the taxpayer, I certainly would not be happy knowing that my taxes were going towards funding some knobhead copper who is champing at the bit to deploy spray on someone.
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Post by xchpotter on Aug 20, 2018 13:22:47 GMT
The amount of experts on this thread is incredible. I never knew there was such a varied and knowledgeable bunch on the Oatcake.
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Post by ursemboys on Aug 20, 2018 13:30:40 GMT
The amount of experts on this thread is incredible. I never knew there was such a varied and knowledgeable bunch on the Oatcake. why are you not surprised,we have shit loads of wannabe managers and chairmen who could manage or run a professional football club on here ,so we must have a few hundred Legal experts ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/0m0lbCuTEBzaRn6f8QaM.gif)
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Post by Block 22 on Aug 20, 2018 13:36:18 GMT
I forgot common sense was classed as expertise in Stoke on Trent.
Everyone here knows, really, that the police were over zealous in their actions.
Were Stoke fans being rowdy? Yes. Does that happen at 90% of football matches? Yes. Did the Police treat me and those around me like criminals as soon as we arrived? Yes. Could the matter have been handled better? Yes.
All in all Lancashire Police were appalling and as noted above, it is their job to handle such situations adequately and remain professional. Reaching for the pepper spray when there was no obvious imminent threat tells me that they need more training.
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Post by skemstokie on Aug 20, 2018 14:17:23 GMT
I work on the principle treat others as you would wish to be treated,rules are rules and there for the good of all,if you don`t like the rules stay at home with your own rules "rules are rules and there for the good of all" Me and you would be no fun whatsoever.What a wide sweeping statement,you have either been in the army or are a copper to come out with a statement like that. Age teaches you rules are there for a reason,i don`t` agree with them all but if you don`t like them campaign for changing the law don`t ignore them,that is the basis for a civilised society,and no have never been in any forces or police.
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Post by Billy the kid on Aug 20, 2018 14:26:40 GMT
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Aug 20, 2018 15:00:31 GMT
Cheers mate somebody pointed me in the right direction earlier. Wish I hadn't asked now. I've only just woke up again.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Aug 20, 2018 15:04:29 GMT
I forgot common sense was classed as expertise in Stoke on Trent. Everyone here knows, really, that the police were over zealous in their actions. Were Stoke fans being rowdy? Yes. Does that happen at 90% of football matches? Yes. Did the Police treat me and those around me like criminals as soon as we arrived? Yes. Could the matter have been handled better? Yes. All in all Lancashire Police were appalling and as noted above, it is their job to handle such situations adequately and remain professional. Reaching for the pepper spray when there was no obvious imminent threat tells me that they need more training. I think we are deceiving ourselves if we think that, for example, trying to break down an exit door to have a smoke happens at 90 % of games. Likewise some of the more raucous concourse behaviour we sometimes see, particularly at a late kick off when our fans have been drinking all day. Personally I saw no evidence of the police treating fans like criminals from when we arrived. If anything rather the reverse. As I said above that is not to say that the use of the spray was appropriate or justified. From the evidence I have seen I don’t think it was. I do think we have an issue about concourse behaviour at some games which if it isn’t addressed might result in our poor reputation being revived.
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Post by skemstokie on Aug 20, 2018 15:17:24 GMT
I forgot common sense was classed as expertise in Stoke on Trent. Everyone here knows, really, that the police were over zealous in their actions. Were Stoke fans being rowdy? Yes. Does that happen at 90% of football matches? Yes. Did the Police treat me and those around me like criminals as soon as we arrived? Yes. Could the matter have been handled better? Yes. All in all Lancashire Police were appalling and as noted above, it is their job to handle such situations adequately and remain professional. Reaching for the pepper spray when there was no obvious imminent threat tells me that they need more training. I think we are deceiving ourselves if we think that, for example, trying to break down an exit door to have a smoke happens at 90 % of games. Likewise some of the more raucous concourse behaviour we sometimes see, particularly at a late kick off when our fans have been drinking all day. Personally I saw no evidence of the police treating fans like criminals from when we arrived. If anything rather the reverse. As I said above that is not to say that the use of the spray was appropriate or justified. From the evidence I have seen I don’t think it was. I do think we have an issue about concourse behaviour at some games which if it isn’t addressed might result in our poor reputation being revived. I have lived close to Preston for 40 years now and in all that time never had a issue with the Lancashire police force ( i have never given them any reason) i have also on occasion asked for their assistance in times of need and have been treated with utmost respect. I was not at the game but if reports of trying to break down exit doors are true this in my opinion is the kind of action which cannot be tolerated and should not be condoned by any Stoke supporters.
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Post by stantheman on Aug 20, 2018 17:10:40 GMT
I forgot common sense was classed as expertise in Stoke on Trent. Everyone here knows, really, that the police were over zealous in their actions. Were Stoke fans being rowdy? Yes. Does that happen at 90% of football matches? Yes. Did the Police treat me and those around me like criminals as soon as we arrived? Yes. Could the matter have been handled better? Yes. All in all Lancashire Police were appalling and as noted above, it is their job to handle such situations adequately and remain professional. Reaching for the pepper spray when there was no obvious imminent threat tells me that they need more training. The Police didn't treat me like a criminal as soon as I arrived. Why? Because I didn't behave like one
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Post by boothenboy75 on Aug 20, 2018 17:21:26 GMT
I think we are deceiving ourselves if we think that, for example, trying to break down an exit door to have a smoke happens at 90 % of games. Likewise some of the more raucous concourse behaviour we sometimes see, particularly at a late kick off when our fans have been drinking all day. Personally I saw no evidence of the police treating fans like criminals from when we arrived. If anything rather the reverse. As I said above that is not to say that the use of the spray was appropriate or justified. From the evidence I have seen I don’t think it was. I do think we have an issue about concourse behaviour at some games which if it isn’t addressed might result in our poor reputation being revived. I have lived close to Preston for 40 years now and in all that time never had a issue with the Lancashire police force ( i have never given them any reason) i have also on occasion asked for their assistance in times of need and have been treated with utmost respect. I was not at the game but if reports of trying to break down exit doors are true this in my opinion is the kind of action which cannot be tolerated and should not be condoned by any Stoke supporters. I haven’t seen a single post justifying what some of our knuckle staggers did. I’ve see plenty justifying the polices totally over the top, unprofessional and dangerous response though.
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Post by felonious on Aug 20, 2018 17:24:55 GMT
I think we are deceiving ourselves if we think that, for example, trying to break down an exit door to have a smoke happens at 90 % of games. Likewise some of the more raucous concourse behaviour we sometimes see, particularly at a late kick off when our fans have been drinking all day. Personally I saw no evidence of the police treating fans like criminals from when we arrived. If anything rather the reverse. As I said above that is not to say that the use of the spray was appropriate or justified. From the evidence I have seen I don’t think it was. I do think we have an issue about concourse behaviour at some games which if it isn’t addressed might result in our poor reputation being revived. I have lived close to Preston for 40 years now and in all that time never had a issue with the Lancashire police force ( i have never given them any reason) i have also on occasion asked for their assistance in times of need and have been treated with utmost respect. I was not at the game but if reports of trying to break down exit doors are true this in my opinion is the kind of action which cannot be tolerated and should not be condoned by any Stoke supporters. Not just the Preston police attacking our poor innocent angels but those well known thugs from Preston doing the same
Meanwhile, British Transport Police posted on social media to say an "exchange of punches" between Stoke and Preston fans at Preston train station is also being investigated.
Read all about it www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45238177
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Post by jeycov on Aug 20, 2018 17:43:51 GMT
Surely video evidence is available showing the group of “ fans” responsible for this behaviour and they should be punished , banned Pepper spray however does seem a very extreme response and inevitably those not causing trouble may suffer the consequences
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Post by Block 22 on Aug 20, 2018 17:49:58 GMT
I forgot common sense was classed as expertise in Stoke on Trent. Everyone here knows, really, that the police were over zealous in their actions. Were Stoke fans being rowdy? Yes. Does that happen at 90% of football matches? Yes. Did the Police treat me and those around me like criminals as soon as we arrived? Yes. Could the matter have been handled better? Yes. All in all Lancashire Police were appalling and as noted above, it is their job to handle such situations adequately and remain professional. Reaching for the pepper spray when there was no obvious imminent threat tells me that they need more training. The Police didn't treat me like a criminal as soon as I arrived. Why? Because I didn't behave like one I obviously did. The pepper spray is still hurting.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Aug 20, 2018 17:53:36 GMT
Surely video evidence is available showing the group of “ fans” responsible for this behaviour and they should be punished , banned Pepper spray however does seem a very extreme response and inevitably those not causing trouble may suffer the consequences I assume the police and PNE will have much more CCTV and body cam footage than we have seen. It depends of course on what the behaviour is. There is a big difference between shouting and chanting however loudly and say deliberately damaging an exit door
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Post by leicspotter on Aug 20, 2018 17:59:03 GMT
Dont disagree that we have some absolute fucking mouth breathers supporting our club, however that was a completely disproportionate reaction by the police and a disgrace when there was clearly kids nearby caught in the crowd.... Hey, I suffer with stuffy sinuses quite often and regularly have to breath through my mouth as a result. ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/4tzqvp1fxEemag_TAXLJ.gif) Old Stokie said that you have to breathe through your mouth so that you can carry on talking through your arse ![(lol)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/lvpvZ64EmrkLcuVniUmo.gif)
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 20, 2018 18:52:34 GMT
Isn't the takeaway from this that if you behave like a knobhead some other knobhead might retaliate? The police shouldn't have acted like they did but then our "fans" in that video were an embarrassment. If you don't want to get pepper sprayed don't behave like a knobhead and if you see knobheads behaving like knobheads walk away. For some strange reason if you do this chances are you will go through life without being pepper sprayed. What really gets me is the bleating. Poor me not given licence to get pissed up and behave like a complete tool. If you can't take your drink at least take your pepper spray. Oh and please stop following Stoke. You're not wanted. The difference is though that pissed up fans being knobhead is them being private citizens, funding their shenanigans by themselves and that if they are a serious threat then they will get collared. A professional policeman has no business being a knobhead for some very obvious reasons. They should be totally beyond reproach. They should not get personally aggravated and they certainly should not let it inform their judgement. They need to set an example. They are charged with protecting the peace and keeping people safe, not responding with force unless every other option has been exhausted. They are employed to act within the rules and they are employed by the taxpayer, I certainly would not be happy knowing that my taxes were going towards funding some knobhead copper who is champing at the bit to deploy spray on someone. I am not defending the police action - it was out of order. However the behaviour of the fans in the direct line of fire was abysmal and deliberately provocative - whether they were self funding or not. And the bleating is just pathetic. I feel sorry for any innocent bystander who may have got hurt - but any sane person would have walked away and you'd have to ask what any parents were doing allowing their kids anywhere near that situation. I think the police should be reprimanded for their actions - but at the same time I sincerely hope that those Stoke fans in the line of fire found the experience of being pepper sprayed painful. I have no sympathy whatsoever and if it happens again - tough. Stop behaving like a knobhead - or associating with knobheads - and the chances are you won't get pepper sprayed. Its perfectly possible to have a few beers, have a laugh and not behave like a complete tool. I absolutely get the civil rights arguments about not using pepper spray to disperse legitimate protest. This had nothing to do with legitimate protest - it was a bunch of pissed up knobheads behaving like a bunch of pissed up knobheads. Making them out as some sort of victims of state sponsored brutality is laughable - no-one looked to me like they were attempting a passable impression of Nelson Mandela. Sorry - I've no sympathy whatsoever, Hope it stung and hope they get banned for life.
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Post by Block 22 on Aug 20, 2018 19:00:14 GMT
I think we are deceiving ourselves if we think that, for example, trying to break down an exit door to have a smoke happens at 90 % of games. Likewise some of the more raucous concourse behaviour we sometimes see, particularly at a late kick off when our fans have been drinking all day. Personally I saw no evidence of the police treating fans like criminals from when we arrived. If anything rather the reverse. As I said above that is not to say that the use of the spray was appropriate or justified. From the evidence I have seen I don’t think it was. I do think we have an issue about concourse behaviour at some games which if it isn’t addressed might result in our poor reputation being revived. I have lived close to Preston for 40 years now and in all that time never had a issue with the Lancashire police force ( i have never given them any reason) i have also on occasion asked for their assistance in times of need and have been treated with utmost respect. I was not at the game but if reports of trying to break down exit doors are true this in my opinion is the kind of action which cannot be tolerated and should not be condoned by any Stoke supporters. Lancashire Police at football games won’t be your average PC plod that comes round when you’ve got a junkie in your shed.
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Post by bathstoke on Aug 20, 2018 19:28:23 GMT
Isn't the takeaway from this that if you behave like a knobhead some other knobhead might retaliate? The police shouldn't have acted like they did but then our "fans" in that video were an embarrassment. If you don't want to get pepper sprayed don't behave like a knobhead and if you see knobheads behaving like knobheads walk away. For some strange reason if you do this chances are you will go through life without being pepper sprayed. What really gets me is the bleating. Poor me not given licence to get pissed up and behave like a complete tool. If you can't take your drink at least take your pepper spray. Oh and please stop following Stoke. You're not wanted. The difference is though that pissed up fans being knobhead is them being private citizens, funding their shenanigans by themselves and that if they are a serious threat then they will get collared. A professional policeman has no business being a knobhead for some very obvious reasons. They should be totally beyond reproach. They should not get personally aggravated and they certainly should not let it inform their judgement. They need to set an example. They are charged with protecting the peace and keeping people safe, not responding with force unless every other option has been exhausted. They are employed to act within the rules and they are employed by the taxpayer, I certainly would not be happy knowing that my taxes were going towards funding some knobhead copper who is champing at the bit to deploy spray on someone. Abso£@#&!nlutly, the coppers goaded them into that, but we’ve seen it all before in the 80’s
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 20, 2018 19:43:34 GMT
Surely video evidence is available showing the group of “ fans” responsible for this behaviour and they should be punished , banned Pepper spray however does seem a very extreme response and inevitably those not causing trouble may suffer the consequences I assume the police and PNE will have much more CCTV and body cam footage than we have seen. It depends of course on what the behaviour is. There is a big difference between shouting and chanting however loudly and say deliberately damaging an exit door Yes there's a massive difference but this incident clearly took place after the damaging of the exit door, which the police had obviously prevented from continuing. So I'm still not sure what the police were actually trying to achieve with their coordinated attack. What would have happened if they had simply just STOOD there and waited for the second half to start? Nothing was being thrown at them, no punches or kicks were being aimed at them, what was is it exactly that they were even trying to prevent? Over the years, I've seen numerous incidents of drunken, rowdy, fans bouncing up and down and gobbing off at the police but I genuinely can't ever remember a coordinated attack of multiple pepper sprays being used as a response to it from the police.
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Post by Northy on Aug 20, 2018 19:53:34 GMT
This incident will probably ensure our ticket allocation at games like Blackburn will be reduced again.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Aug 20, 2018 19:54:56 GMT
I assume the police and PNE will have much more CCTV and body cam footage than we have seen. It depends of course on what the behaviour is. There is a big difference between shouting and chanting however loudly and say deliberately damaging an exit door Yes there's a massive difference but this incident clearly took place after the damaging of the exit door, which the police had obviously prevented from continuing. So I'm still not sure what the police were actually trying to achieve with their coordinated attack. What would have happened if they had simply just STOOD there and waited for the second half to start? Nothing was being thrown at them, no punches or kicks were being aimed at them, what was is it exactly that they were even trying to prevent? Over the years, I've seen numerous incidents of drunken, rowdy, fans bouncing up and down and gobbing off at the police but I genuinely can't ever remember a coordinated attack of multiple pepper sprays being used as a response to it from the police. Those questions will hopefully be examined at the meeting tomorrow Paul in the context of the guidance on when PAVA should be deployed.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Aug 20, 2018 19:56:59 GMT
This incident will probably ensure our ticket allocation at games like Blackburn will be reduced again. That is a real worry I think
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Post by onefatcopper on Aug 20, 2018 20:11:27 GMT
Yes there's a massive difference but this incident clearly took place after the damaging of the exit door, which the police had obviously prevented from continuing. So I'm still not sure what the police were actually trying to achieve with their coordinated attack. What would have happened if they had simply just STOOD there and waited for the second half to start? Nothing was being thrown at them, no punches or kicks were being aimed at them, what was is it exactly that they were even trying to prevent? Over the years, I've seen numerous incidents of drunken, rowdy, fans bouncing up and down and gobbing off at the police but I genuinely can't ever remember a coordinated attack of multiple pepper sprays being used as a response to it from the police. Those questions will hopefully be examined at the meeting tomorrow Paul in the context of the guidance on when PAVA should be deployed. H The Police are supposed to be public servants whose responsibility is to uphold the law and to serve and protect the public ? Even taking into account the verbal provercation I’m afraid this will go down as just another case of legalised violence carried out by the biggest state sponsored organised gang in this country.
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Post by skemstokie on Aug 20, 2018 20:52:09 GMT
I have lived close to Preston for 40 years now and in all that time never had a issue with the Lancashire police force ( i have never given them any reason) i have also on occasion asked for their assistance in times of need and have been treated with utmost respect. I was not at the game but if reports of trying to break down exit doors are true this in my opinion is the kind of action which cannot be tolerated and should not be condoned by any Stoke supporters. Lancashire Police at football games won’t be your average PC plod that comes round when you’ve got a junkie in your shed. I have been to Deepdale to watch Preston play when wife wanted to go shopping in town,never had a problem with fans or police
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Post by Block 22 on Aug 20, 2018 21:29:46 GMT
Lancashire Police at football games won’t be your average PC plod that comes round when you’ve got a junkie in your shed. I have been to Deepdale to watch Preston play when wife wanted to go shopping in town,never had a problem with fans or police Home fans generally won’t be policed the same way.
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Post by skemstokie on Aug 20, 2018 22:02:16 GMT
I have been to Deepdale to watch Preston play when wife wanted to go shopping in town,never had a problem with fans or police Home fans generally won’t be policed the same way. I never get any hassle,i go as a neutral no-one knows who i support no hassle at all,i am of the opinion if you act like a knob don`t be surprised if get treated as one,if you make out you are hard someone will see that as challenge. I was a licencee in North Wales for quite a few years and you soon learn how to treat people and who to trust,everyone has a breaking point the secret is recognizing when that point is reached.
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Post by boothenboy75 on Aug 21, 2018 7:44:59 GMT
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Aug 21, 2018 8:09:34 GMT
This kind of generalisation is not helpful. It is as inappropriate to generalise about a whole police force from the action of one police officer as it would be for the police to generalise about Stoke fans from the actions of a small number, which of course is exactly the problem we have sometimes been faced with.
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Post by xchpotter on Aug 21, 2018 8:13:24 GMT
This kind of generalisation is not helpful. It is as inappropriate to generalise about a whole police force from the action of one police officer as it would be for the police to generalise about Stoke fans from the actions of a small number, which of course is exactly the problem we have sometimes been faced with. Well said.
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