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Post by sufolkstokie on Mar 4, 2018 12:02:20 GMT
So you're happy with the bizarre substitutions, lack of gamechangers on the bench and failure to create anything against some of the weakest teams in the league then? The Pieters sub was a headscratcher. I'd have gone for Jese. And we've definitely sacrificed creativity in the final third too. But I don't know why anybody is surprised by that. His priority absolutely had to be shoring it up at the back. We definitely sit deeper and defend in greater numbers, which means we don't create much at the other end. Under Hughes we were more expansive and we got our arses handed to us on a regular basis. No manager was going to come in and wave a magic wand. I think it's unrealistic to expect somebody to come in and sort the defence out and also get us sparking at the other end of the pitch with just a month or so under his belt. Well the bloke at Swansea seems to have achieved it
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 4, 2018 12:02:32 GMT
I think it's unrealistic to expect somebody to come in and sort the defence out and also get us sparking at the other end of the pitch with just a month or so under his belt. Whilst also being forced to spend significant time on fitness and conditioning as well. I'm really not sure what people were expecting him to do. Not put Glen Johnson on the bench? Not change the game in the opposition's favour at Leicester with his subs? Replace a striker after 15 minutes with another attacking player? Not bring a left back on in midfield at Bournemouth?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 4, 2018 12:03:33 GMT
Exactly. They were negative beyond belief...which is exactly what we are seeing to date here. There is no fuck up. This aggressive scared of no one Norwich team that you speak of couldn't even achieve what that shower of shit from Burnley are doing. Just admit it...your blind optimism was totally misplaced What are you talking about? They achieved back to back promotions and then finished 12th in the Premier League, outscoring all but six teams? As for this apparently terrible, negative football they played away from home... They won at Tottenham scoring twice. They scored three times away at Arsenal. They were in score draws at Liverpool and Everton. They scored three in Swansea and two apiece in victories at West Brom, Bolton and QPR. Burnley after their promotion finished 16th. So they actually in the same context outperformed them. 12th. Wow. I take it all back. Tony pulis guided newly promoted stoke to 12th whilst relying on pericard, cort, sonko, diou and cresswell. Let's get him back.
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Post by werrington on Mar 4, 2018 12:04:06 GMT
Was that the previous 10 minutes? 😂 He let him go way too often. But let's be honest he shouldn't have been on the pitch from the get go as he's been abhorrent for the last 2 months. What on earth are you on about? You said he wasn't tracking his man all game. It's lies. What are you on about '10 minutes' for? Did you watch the game or did you review it on your stats pad? If Bayern was a Liverpool fan he’d find an issue with Mo Salah Sad but true
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 4, 2018 12:04:27 GMT
Was that the previous 10 minutes? 😂 He let him go way too often. But let's be honest he shouldn't have been on the pitch from the get go as he's been abhorrent for the last 2 months. What on earth are you on about? You said he wasn't tracking his man all game. It's lies. What are you on about '10 minutes' for? Did you watch the game or did you review it on your stats pad? See the second paragraph. Chopper has been a liability for months now and encapsulates the malaise Hughes bought in.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 4, 2018 12:05:33 GMT
What on earth are you on about? You said he wasn't tracking his man all game. It's lies. What are you on about '10 minutes' for? Did you watch the game or did you review it on your stats pad? If Bayern was a Liverpool fan he’d find an issue with Mo Salah Sad but true Haha but Choupo has been an outright disgrace in the past 2 months.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 4, 2018 12:06:42 GMT
What are you talking about? They achieved back to back promotions and then finished 12th in the Premier League, outscoring all but six teams? As for this apparently terrible, negative football they played away from home... They won at Tottenham scoring twice. They scored three times away at Arsenal. They were in score draws at Liverpool and Everton. They scored three in Swansea and two apiece in victories at West Brom, Bolton and QPR. Burnley after their promotion finished 16th. So they actually in the same context outperformed them. 12th. Wow. I take it all back. Tony pulis guided newly promoted stoke to 12th whilst relying on pericard, cort, sonko, diou and cresswell. Let's get him back. You’re being very silly. Just admit that you’ve got this wrong. They weren’t negative, they weren’t terrible away from home, Hughton didn’t seem like a breath of fresh air to their fans by comparison. Every one of those points is wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2018 12:07:31 GMT
The Pieters sub was a headscratcher. I'd have gone for Jese. And we've definitely sacrificed creativity in the final third too. But I don't know why anybody is surprised by that. His priority absolutely had to be shoring it up at the back. We definitely sit deeper and defend in greater numbers, which means we don't create much at the other end. Under Hughes we were more expansive and we got our arses handed to us on a regular basis. No manager was going to come in and wave a magic wand. I think it's unrealistic to expect somebody to come in and sort the defence out and also get us sparking at the other end of the pitch with just a month or so under his belt. Well the bloke at Swansea seems to have achieved it Swansea had a solid base and were well coached under Clement. We didn't have that base and were woefully coached under Hughes. Swansea also have very good, pacey options all over the park. Their forward options are way better than ours. Their midfield pre Badou was more mobile and had superior footballing ability in it. Now i'd say we've made ground on the mobility but still lack in footballing ability. Carvahal, for as well as he has done, has had an infinitely easier job squad wise than Lambert - even allowing for their poor starting position.
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Post by sufolkstokie on Mar 4, 2018 12:13:15 GMT
Well the bloke at Swansea seems to have achieved it Swansea had a solid base and were well coached under Clement. We didn't have that base and were woefully coached under Hughes. Swansea also have very good, pacey options all over the park. Their forward options are way better than ours. Their midfield pre Badou was more mobile and had superior footballing ability in it. Now i'd say we've made ground on the mobility but still lack in footballing ability. Carvahal, for as well as he has done, has had an infinitely easier job squad wise than Lambert - even allowing for their poor starting position. Lambert is not the right manager for me, but despite that, one cant deny what a mess the board have allowed this club to get in to. 10 years in the Premiership and that bench yesterday was embarrassing and told you all you need to know
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 4, 2018 12:14:56 GMT
Swansea had a solid base and were well coached under Clement. We didn't have that base and were woefully coached under Hughes. Swansea also have very good, pacey options all over the park. Their forward options are way better than ours. Their midfield pre Badou was more mobile and had superior footballing ability in it. Now i'd say we've made ground on the mobility but still lack in footballing ability. Carvahal, for as well as he has done, has had an infinitely easier job squad wise than Lambert - even allowing for their poor starting position. Lambert is not the right manager for me, but despite that, one cant deny what a mess the board have allowed this club to get in to. 10 years in the Premiership and that bench yesterday was embarrassing and told you all you need to know He picked that bench though Suffolk. There was no need to have a bench that bad. He chose to do it.
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Post by spiderpuss on Mar 4, 2018 12:16:09 GMT
The Pieters sub was a headscratcher. I'd have gone for Jese. And we've definitely sacrificed creativity in the final third too. But I don't know why anybody is surprised by that. His priority absolutely had to be shoring it up at the back. We definitely sit deeper and defend in greater numbers, which means we don't create much at the other end. Under Hughes we were more expansive and we got our arses handed to us on a regular basis. No manager was going to come in and wave a magic wand. I think it's unrealistic to expect somebody to come in and sort the defence out and also get us sparking at the other end of the pitch with just a month or so under his belt. Well the bloke at Swansea seems to have achieved it They did purchase an 18M striker though, we "tried" but failed to do so. It will probably define our season. We won't stay up with the odd goal from Shaq. I think Lambo is doing is best with what is a limited team. Should the worst happen he won't be leaving Stoke, it took 2 years to get rid of MH FFS. We are reaping what we have sewn. Keeping MH in the post past last May coupled with an appalling transfer period last summer.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 4, 2018 12:17:42 GMT
Whilst also being forced to spend significant time on fitness and conditioning as well. I'm really not sure what people were expecting him to do. You really don't think we should have been winning more than one of the games we've had? I think we're about 4 points short of where we should be after that run. Those points are largely accounted for with individual errors. I think we have a sniff of a chance and I didn't expect much more. I think he's improved most things he could quickly and I expect that a few more risks will be taken in the upcoming games.
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Post by sufolkstokie on Mar 4, 2018 12:18:50 GMT
Lambert is not the right manager for me, but despite that, one cant deny what a mess the board have allowed this club to get in to. 10 years in the Premiership and that bench yesterday was embarrassing and told you all you need to know He picked that bench though Suffolk. There was no need to have a bench that bad. He chose to do it. I agree which is why I agree with you re he needs to go at the end of the season
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 4, 2018 12:19:22 GMT
You really don't think we should have been winning more than one of the games we've had? I think we're about 4 points short of where we should be after that run. Those points are largely accounted for with individual errors. I think we have a sniff of a chance and I didn't expect much more. I think he's improved most things he could quickly and I expect that a few more risks will be taken in the upcoming games. Surely that run of games was the place to take a risk or two? Like a little one? He just seems as stubborn and cluelesss as the previous bloke but in the opposite way.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 4, 2018 12:20:26 GMT
12th. Wow. I take it all back. Tony pulis guided newly promoted stoke to 12th whilst relying on pericard, cort, sonko, diou and cresswell. Let's get him back. You’re being very silly. Just admit that you’ve got this wrong. They weren’t negative, they weren’t terrible away from home, Hughton didn’t seem like a breath of fresh air to their fans by comparison. Every one of those points is wrong. Lambert hasn't produced one team that plays the football that you claim to be the case. Hes a dour Scotsman and all of his teams are a reflection of him. Norwich, villa, and stoke are/were all boring teams set up to rely on one individual. I know how much Norwich fans liked Lambert and I know how much they wanted hughton out for his pulis esq approach. I have good friends who are Norwich fans and they don't have a bad word to say about Lambert. My early impressions are that Lambert talks a good game but delivers a shite one and in that sense, he's a perfect fit for our football club.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 4, 2018 12:21:46 GMT
Whilst also being forced to spend significant time on fitness and conditioning as well. I'm really not sure what people were expecting him to do. Not put Glen Johnson on the bench? Not change the game in the opposition's favour at Leicester with his subs? Replace a striker after 15 minutes with another attacking player? Not bring a left back on in midfield at Bournemouth? Head scratching decisions like every other Stoke manager I've had the pleasure of observing!. 6 games in and he's improved fitness and organisation which were the priority. Whether can now kick on a bit and get another 11 or 12 points, I don't know.
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Post by thegift on Mar 4, 2018 12:21:58 GMT
Another quality contribution by our resident intellectual. The thread is pathetic kev just like you.
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Post by thegift on Mar 4, 2018 12:23:46 GMT
He picked that bench though Suffolk. There was no need to have a bench that bad. He chose to do it. I agree which is why I agree with you re he needs to go at the end of the season The bench was bad, i get that. Is he at fault for dropping 4 points via butlands howler and adams 5 second moment of madness?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 4, 2018 12:24:06 GMT
You’re being very silly. Just admit that you’ve got this wrong. They weren’t negative, they weren’t terrible away from home, Hughton didn’t seem like a breath of fresh air to their fans by comparison. Every one of those points is wrong. Lambert hasn't produced one team that plays the football that you claim to be the case. Hes a dour Scotsman and all of his teams are a reflection of him. Norwich, villa, and stoke are/were all boring teams set up to rely on one individual. I know how much Norwich fans liked Lambert and I know how much they wanted hughton out for his pulis esq approach. I have good friends who are Norwich fans and they don't have a bad word to say about Lambert. My early impressions are that Lambert talks a good game but delivers a shite one and in that sense, he's a perfect fit for our football club. So because he personally is dour and Scottish it automatically follows that every single one of his teams has been? Norwich weren’t at all set up to rely on one individual, Pilkington, Hoolahan, Benyon and Holt were an impressive front four. For a boring side they sure did score a lot of goals. And that miserable away record actually wasn’t very miserable, and their Premier League season wasn’t very negative. Other than that Dave you’ve completely nailed it. Congrats.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Mar 4, 2018 12:26:20 GMT
I know nothing about the fitness of the Swansea team when they changed managers but the Bournemouth game left me in no doubt that Stoke players were not fit enough to play amy where near the full 90 minutes of high intensity football.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 4, 2018 12:27:37 GMT
Not put Glen Johnson on the bench? Not change the game in the opposition's favour at Leicester with his subs? Replace a striker after 15 minutes with another attacking player? Not bring a left back on in midfield at Bournemouth? Head scratching decisions like every other Stoke manager I've had the pleasure of observing!. 6 games in and he's improved fitness and organisation which were the priority. Whether can now kick on a bit and get another 11 or 12 points, I don't know. That’s quite a lot of head scratching decisions for the first few games Sheiky, at a crucial period when we really can’t afford them. Had Hughes made those changes, would you be so quick to sweep them under the carpet as “wacky managers, eh?”
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Post by ParaPsych on Mar 4, 2018 12:27:49 GMT
Lambert hasn't produced one team that plays the football that you claim to be the case. Hes a dour Scotsman and all of his teams are a reflection of him. Norwich, villa, and stoke are/were all boring teams set up to rely on one individual. I know how much Norwich fans liked Lambert and I know how much they wanted hughton out for his pulis esq approach. I have good friends who are Norwich fans and they don't have a bad word to say about Lambert. My early impressions are that Lambert talks a good game but delivers a shite one and in that sense, he's a perfect fit for our football club. So because he personally is dour and Scottish it automatically follows that every single one of his teams has been? Norwich weren’t at all set up to rely on one individual, Pilkington, Hoolahan, Benyon and Holt were an impressive front four. For a boring side they sure did score a lot of goals. And that miserable away record actually wasn’t very miserable, and their Premier League season wasn’t very negative. Other than that Dave you’ve completely nailed it. Congrats. We've never even come close to scoring 52 goals in a single season since promotion. It's currently hard to believe it was Lambert who managed that!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 4, 2018 12:27:59 GMT
I know nothing about the fitness of the Swansea team when they changed managers but the Bournemouth game left me in no doubt that Stoke players were not fit enough to play amy where near the full 90 minutes of high intensity football. So if you could see that, wouldn't you play a game not based around a high intensity pressing game? Indeed, isn't pretty bad management that you'd implement such a plan?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 4, 2018 12:36:04 GMT
Head scratching decisions like every other Stoke manager I've had the pleasure of observing!. 6 games in and he's improved fitness and organisation which were the priority. Whether can now kick on a bit and get another 11 or 12 points, I don't know. That’s quite a lot of head scratching decisions for the first few games Sheiky, at a crucial period when we really can’t afford them. Had Hughes made those changes, would you be so quick to sweep them under the carpet as “wacky managers, eh?” I'm in the minority I know but I could just about buy the Erik sub. It was negative but understandable, they were getting success down that side and to put Jese there would have exposed us too much. The bench was just ridiculous and unfathomable and would have left us nowhere to go if we'd gone behind.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Mar 4, 2018 12:38:11 GMT
I know nothing about the fitness of the Swansea team when they changed managers but the Bournemouth game left me in no doubt that Stoke players were not fit enough to play amy where near the full 90 minutes of high intensity football. So if you could see that, wouldn't you play a game not based around a high intensity pressing game? Indeed, isn't pretty bad management that you'd implement such a plan? Can't score. Can't defend. Unfit. Low confidence. He has given them opportunities to succeed. And fail. I think we're doing OK considering and Lambert is visibly and openly trying things as we go along. I like him for that.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Mar 4, 2018 12:39:26 GMT
That’s quite a lot of head scratching decisions for the first few games Sheiky, at a crucial period when we really can’t afford them. Had Hughes made those changes, would you be so quick to sweep them under the carpet as “wacky managers, eh?” I'm in the minority I know but I could just about buy the Erik sub. It was negative but understandable, they were getting success down that side and to put Jese there would have exposed us too much. The bench was just ridiculous and unfathomable and would have left us nowhere to go if we'd gone behind. I could see it too and after Choupo fir the goak at Leicester I had thought it worth a try at some point anyway.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 4, 2018 12:43:05 GMT
So if you could see that, wouldn't you play a game not based around a high intensity pressing game? Indeed, isn't pretty bad management that you'd implement such a plan? Can't score. Can't defend. Unfit. Low confidence. He has given them opportunities to succeed. And fail. I think we're doing OK considering and Lambert is visibly and openly trying things as we go along. I like him for that. Is he? He's got this 433 and stuck with it despite it not giving us what we need (wins). We played very differently against Huddersfield (Lambert's best game imo) than we have done since. Diouf stretched the play and we were playing balls into the channel for him to chase and to get us up the pitch. We haven't done that since. We've just blasted it as his head and it's been awful. As othera have said, if you're playing like that you need to make sure your set pieces are shit hot. Ours are just shit. He needs to either bin the 433 or figure out a way of getting a lot set pieces with it and then figure out a way of actually being good at them.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 4, 2018 12:43:57 GMT
Lambert hasn't produced one team that plays the football that you claim to be the case. Hes a dour Scotsman and all of his teams are a reflection of him. Norwich, villa, and stoke are/were all boring teams set up to rely on one individual. I know how much Norwich fans liked Lambert and I know how much they wanted hughton out for his pulis esq approach. I have good friends who are Norwich fans and they don't have a bad word to say about Lambert. My early impressions are that Lambert talks a good game but delivers a shite one and in that sense, he's a perfect fit for our football club. So because he personally is dour and Scottish it automatically follows that every single one of his teams has been? Norwich weren’t at all set up to rely on one individual, Pilkington, Hoolahan, Benyon and Holt were an impressive front four. For a boring side they sure did score a lot of goals. And that miserable away record actually wasn’t very miserable, and their Premier League season wasn’t very negative. Other than that Dave you’ve completely nailed it. Congrats. I'll look forward to seeing this exciting, scared of no one football next time out then. The excitement, I have to be honest, is fucking killing me. I've just forwarded your description of his Norwich team to my mate with the question "does this accurately describe Paul lambert Norwich team". I'll update you with his response.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 4, 2018 12:47:19 GMT
So because he personally is dour and Scottish it automatically follows that every single one of his teams has been? Norwich weren’t at all set up to rely on one individual, Pilkington, Hoolahan, Benyon and Holt were an impressive front four. For a boring side they sure did score a lot of goals. And that miserable away record actually wasn’t very miserable, and their Premier League season wasn’t very negative. Other than that Dave you’ve completely nailed it. Congrats. I'll look forward to seeing this exciting, scared of no one football next time out then. The excitement, I have to be honest, is fucking killing me. I've just forwarded your description of his Norwich team to my mate with the question "does this accurately describe Paul lambert Norwich team". I'll update you with his response. And I’m sure the response will be 100% honest and in no way self-serving. Again, if you read what I wrote, I said I hoped we were getting the Norwich Lambert, but that we hadn’t got that version. At no point did I say that’s what we’d been playing like or were going to play like. Again, it must take some going for a newly promoted Prem side to be hideously dour and defensive and still score more goals than all but six teams...
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 4, 2018 12:50:39 GMT
I'll look forward to seeing this exciting, scared of no one football next time out then. The excitement, I have to be honest, is fucking killing me. I've just forwarded your description of his Norwich team to my mate with the question "does this accurately describe Paul lambert Norwich team". I'll update you with his response. And I’m sure the response will be 100% honest and in no way self-serving. Again, if you read what I wrote, I said I hoped we were getting the Norwich Lambert, but that we hadn’t got that version. At no point did I say that’s what we’d been playing like or were going to play like. Again, it must take some going for a newly promoted Prem side to be hideously dour and defensive and still score more goals than all but six teams... You saying I'm a lier? I've already told you that they haven't a bad word to say about him.
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