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Post by alster on Dec 27, 2017 22:28:36 GMT
You just have to find the money or another way to compete all the bollox people come out with wanting to rig the competition to make it closer just lowers the credibility of the competition. Its basically sour grapes if someone made us into a Man City type we'd be lapping it up virtually to a man. All this locally owned bollox is just that bollox. If something is not competitive people will stop watching. I honestly wouldn't want us to become anything like Man City or Chelsea. Being bankrolled by disgusting people just so they can swing their dicks is not why I support my team. If it was I would have chosen Liverpool when I was a kid like all the wankers at school did. That's entirely up to you I'm sure whether they admit it or not 90%+ of our fans would be chuffed with it and the 10% who's principals it offended would be replaced ten times over. If we were football masochists we'd have become vale fans. |
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Post by johnbutlershair on Dec 27, 2017 22:33:05 GMT
It hasn't to a degree. What the big clubs are generally doing now is they're buying their way to the title. Have a look at the top 4. How many have got home grown talent in their squads playing regularly? Lingard, Kane are probably the main two. Instead it's spending big on proven players from abroad or from other clubs. Theirs less emphasis on the coaching because clubs now are waiting for players to become the finished article and then spending big. How many top flight players 30 years ago worked their way through the leagues and developed into top players compared to today? A hell of a lot more. How many players in the premier league now started in the lower leagues? Westwood and Vardy are two off the top of my head. It's all about instant success. Managers aren't given time to develop squads. They're sacked if they don't win a trophy in two to 3 seasons. If Ferguson had started managing United now, he wouldn't have been given the time he was 30 years ago. The Ferguson thing is a non argument if you didn't move your manager on to keep things fresh you'd hit on a SAF type dynasty once in a generation and every other time your inaction would bite you on the arse, you're effectively backing a 1000/1 shot. Many big name players were exposed to lower league football through loans Kane and Beckham for instance They were coached by big clubs then sent out on loan to toughen them up. The system is nowhere near as broken as you think. Its mainly sour grapes because we don't stand a chance of winning it which I understand but I just don't want to see some false competition because I'm sad we're not at the top table. More investment would help us compete better the Coates' should provide it or find somebody who will. Nah not sour grapes at all. And yes Beckham and Kane were exposed to lower league football for a handful of games. I'm talking about players who've worked their way to the top. There's not many at all and very few players in the top flight who've worked their way through their clubs youth system. What I'm worried about is that money is slowly destroying the league. It's not competitive anymore at any level. How many different teams have won the premier league since it's inception? 6 clubs. That's a pitifully low number over a 25 year period. My point with Ferguson wasn't about if he should have moved on or not it's about the fact he was given time to build an entire club and did so very successfully albeit with a few bumps in the road in the early years. Managers now are given such little time in comparison that they generally turn their backs on the youth system and resort to big money signings. Players are leaving mid table clubs to play bit parts at the bigger clubs because they double their wages. The money has destroyed the game as it was completely. Maybe I am being a bit nostalgic but the game has become diluted because there is too much money in the game |
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Post by duckling on Dec 27, 2017 22:57:44 GMT
I live abroad and don't get access to English games below the Premier League.
Do you ever see completely attack vs defend games in the Championship and lower? I keep an eye on Championship results, and they seem less predictable, and there is a lot more mobility within the table.
A 13 place jump from season to season, as happened with Leicester, is a once in a lifetime fluke in the Premier League, but it happens all the time in the Championship.
With every team seemingly having some chance of getting a result from a game, theoretically you'd think that it wouldn't be in teams' best interest to completely write off games tactically.
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drbob
Spectator
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Post by drbob on Dec 27, 2017 22:58:50 GMT
This is everything I hate about football now. No pride or passion just trying to minimise damage and maintain position in division.
Prize money for prem is around £50m and Champions League £25m, stick around £150m on top of that for TV money and cup runs. Based on that the top teams should be £100m or so a year above the lower teams.
What’s the difference - advertising (sponsorship) and foreign ownership (eh hem - investment)
Liverpool who are consistent non-achievers spending £75m on a half-decent at best centre back, selling another player to Barcelona for £100m +. It’s all a fraud. State sponsors bending the rules for prestige - bribes and backhanders everywhere.
PSG spending £200m on Neymar and £150m on Mbappe - how is that financially viable. No one watches the French league and prize money is crap. Why invest that for s pop at a tiny European prize.
Agents (the absolute scum of the game) TAKING tens of millions out of the game engineering moves and f@&king over teams that have invested time and money.
Clubs hoarding young players and abusing them to their benefit through the loans system. Zouma and Bamford a couple of examples.
The whole way the game is played nowadays with quick little players with no steel and grit. Always complaining, tackling all but banned, the whole sport sanitised. There is no better counter to an arrogant little lightweight scrote of a player than an orrible big b@stard centre back that makes his presence felt. It’s what we need and what I miss - it’s also what they want removed.
Players are now so isolated from reality, fans isolated from players, owners (in general) not invested in the team and area. The fans no longer matter, what they contribute financially doesn’t matter. They’re just an audience to make it look better on telly.
I just watch football these days. I don’t live it any more.
That makes me sad.
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Post by BristolMick on Dec 27, 2017 23:36:07 GMT
I live abroad and don't get access to English games below the Premier League. Do you ever see completely attack vs defend games in the Championship and lower? I keep an eye on Championship results, and they seem less predictable, and there is a lot more mobility within the table. A 13 place jump from season to season, as happened with Leicester, is a once in a lifetime fluke in the Premier League, but it happens all the time in the Championship. With every team seemingly having some chance of getting a result from a game, theoretically you'd think that it wouldn't be in teams' best interest to completely write off games tactically. It's very rare for attack v defence games below the PL. if it happens it's less to do with money but one team having a fantastic game or season and will not always be the same few clubs against the rest syndrome that exists in the Prem. I like to think that as a country British people have a great sense of fairness, and do not like greed and selfishness. People who boast or like to talk about themselves a lot are not generally liked or admired. I'm not sure that it's the same in the US but one thing you do have with your drafting system from college futbol where lower teams get first pick is an understanding that for sport to be interesting to the outside world it needs to be competitive. Our Premier League traits are at complete odds with our National character. BM |
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Post by greyman on Dec 27, 2017 23:54:28 GMT
This is everything I hate about football now. No pride or passion just trying to minimise damage and maintain position in division. Prize money for prem is around £50m and Champions League £25m, stick around £150m on top of that for TV money and cup runs. Based on that the top teams should be £100m or so a year above the lower teams. What’s the difference - advertising (sponsorship) and foreign ownership (eh hem - investment) Liverpool who are consistent non-achievers spending £75m on a half-decent at best centre back, selling another player to Barcelona for £100m +. It’s all a fraud. State sponsors bending the rules for prestige - bribes and backhanders everywhere. PSG spending £200m on Neymar and £150m on Mbappe - how is that financially viable. No one watches the French league and prize money is crap. Why invest that for s pop at a tiny European prize. Agents (the absolute scum of the game) TAKING tens of millions out of the game engineering moves and f@&king over teams that have invested time and money. Clubs hoarding young players and abusing them to their benefit through the loans system. Zouma and Bamford a couple of examples. The whole way the game is played nowadays with quick little players with no steel and grit. Always complaining, tackling all but banned, the whole sport sanitised. There is no better counter to an arrogant little lightweight scrote of a player than an orrible big b@stard centre back that makes his presence felt. It’s what we need and what I miss - it’s also what they want removed. Players are now so isolated from reality, fans isolated from players, owners (in general) not invested in the team and area. The fans no longer matter, what they contribute financially doesn’t matter. They’re just an audience to make it look better on telly. I just watch football these days. I don’t live it any more. That makes me sad. You missed the bit about refs. Apparently it's not enough that certain clubs have massive resources, and two teams of full internationals, with players rotting in the reserves who would walk into the first eleven of a team just a few places below them in the table. |
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Post by baystokie on Dec 28, 2017 0:09:53 GMT
You just have to find the money or another way to compete all the bollox people come out with wanting to rig the competition to make it closer just lowers the credibility of the competition. Its basically sour grapes if someone made us into a Man City type we'd be lapping it up virtually to a man. All this locally owned bollox is just that bollox. If something is not competitive people will stop watching. I honestly wouldn't want us to become anything like Man City or Chelsea. Being bankrolled by disgusting people just so they can swing their dicks is not why I support my team. If it was I would have chosen Liverpool when I was a kid like all the wankers at school did. Isn't most football support based on 'swinging your dick' better and higher than the fans of another club? When (if?) we beat one of the top six teams, you can't move in the Potteries for swinging dicks! |
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Post by BristolMick on Dec 28, 2017 0:13:26 GMT
Simple. You let the big teams get what they want which is a European super league. Let them break away and take the majority of the money with them. Let the money fall out of the premier league and let football return to what it once was, about coaching, skill and ability. Not who has the biggest wallets. Long gone are the days where the title was anybody's. Clubs like Villa and Forest even Wolves being successful in Europe. The league isn't competitive anymore. Man City, PSG, Chelsea, Madrid etc are everything that is wrong with football. Let them fuck off into their own league That would see us out of the big time for ever, I wouldn't be happy with that, and nor would our fans, best case they'd follow Stoke AND a super-league club, worst case they'd just drift away, anf the next generation would forget Stoke and jump straight in with a super-league club. I don't think that's right at all Gods. When we weren't in the Prem I didn't know any regulars at Stoke who supported us and a Prem club. I'm sure it doesn't apply to Wolves, Forest, Sheffield United and the like now either! BM |
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Post by bhp on Dec 28, 2017 0:20:54 GMT
I'd love to see a draft system of recruiting players.
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Post by Gods on Dec 28, 2017 0:30:09 GMT
That would see us out of the big time for ever, I wouldn't be happy with that, and nor would our fans, best case they'd follow Stoke AND a super-league club, worst case they'd just drift away, anf the next generation would forget Stoke and jump straight in with a super-league club. I don't think that's right at all Gods. When we weren't in the Prem I didn't know any regulars at Stoke who supported us and a Prem club. I'm sure it doesn't apply to Wolves, Forest, Sheffield United and the like now either! BM No, but when we were in the Championship there was always the thought that we might once again compete with the great and the good of English football via the promotion system. If the Big 6 or whatever it is simply cleared off to join a glamorous Euro Super League with Barca and Real and Juve and Bayern and PSG and whoever they would be gone for good, and we would be stuck festering away in some small time, little England, domestic squabble of a league which didn't even involve the best teams in our own country for heavens sake. I'm fairly sure it would not be a good thing, not for us any way, in fact it would be near enough the end of us as a serious football concern. We mustn't for one moment let the 'Big 6' think they have left us behind and can go away and play in their own Euro league, don't forget in this most turgid of all seasons we have already tucked away Arsenal and drawn with Manchester United. |
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Post by ltj386 on Dec 28, 2017 1:07:34 GMT
I wish we wouldn't fall apart against the top sides and (more often than not) concede 4+ goals. It would at least show we can hang onto some sliver of hope of getting something in a game where we are clearly outmatched. We always tend to implode after conceding the first goal.
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