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Post by wannabee on Mar 11, 2024 14:51:00 GMT
Not a fan of Lee at all but I do think he believes what he says and is an honest politician in that sense. The likes of Sunak, Patel, Gove etc.. I think are more aware of the games in politics and when they strike up culture wars they know exactly what they're doing. They don't really care about solving the issues they create division over, power is what comes first. Whereas Lee I actually think believes in the stuff being pushed in culture wars and maybe thought there was a genuine desire in the tories to sort these "issues" rather than fuel them to create division. I wish Mr Anderson the best of luck in Reform anyway. No doubt the media will suddenly be thst bit tougher on him now too. I'm sure your right, 30P Lee is a genuine Racist who was a useful front man for the Conservatives who were more squeamish of being so openly so but enjoyed his stirring of Culture Wars He was thrown out of the Labour Party for Racist remarks against Travellers. He was eventually thrown out of the Conservative for Islamaphobic and Racist comments against Sadiq Khan. He has found his natural home in Reform 30P Lee's particular Shtick is as man of the people who speaks in plain English for the little people that's if you can ignore the stupidity and hypocrisy The spectical of 30P Lee and Tice gladhanding each other at today's Press Conference was priceless. Just a couple of weeks ago like two old Tarts they were trading insults 🤣
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Mar 11, 2024 15:11:17 GMT
Nowt honest about 30p Lee mate, sorry. I'm not a supporter but I do think he believes what he says. Do you? He said MP's shouldn't have second jobs. Until GB News offered him £100k a year for - er - a second job. He's a soundbite gobshite.
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Post by gawa on Mar 11, 2024 15:26:28 GMT
Not a fan of Lee at all but I do think he believes what he says and is an honest politician in that sense. The likes of Sunak, Patel, Gove etc.. I think are more aware of the games in politics and when they strike up culture wars they know exactly what they're doing. They don't really care about solving the issues they create division over, power is what comes first. Whereas Lee I actually think believes in the stuff being pushed in culture wars and maybe thought there was a genuine desire in the tories to sort these "issues" rather than fuel them to create division. I wish Mr Anderson the best of luck in Reform anyway. No doubt the media will suddenly be thst bit tougher on him now too. I'm sure your right, 30P Lee is a genuine Racist who was a useful front man for the Conservatives who were more squeamish of being so openly so but enjoyed his stirring of Culture Wars He was thrown out of the Labour Party for Racist remarks against Travellers. He was eventually thrown out of the Conservative for Islamaphobic and Racist comments against Sadiq Khan. He has found his natural home in Reform 30P Lee's particular Shtick is as man of the people who speaks in plain English for the little people that's if you can ignore the stupidity and hypocrisy The spectical of 30P Lee and Tice gladhanding each other at today's Press Conference was priceless. Just a couple of weeks ago like two old Tarts they were trading insults 🤣 So you agree? He does believe in what he says and in that sense is honest. I do think he has said stuff which can be interpreted as racist too. But when our government of 14 years fuels the thought that we are overrun by extremists and we are all worse off due to immigrants then people begin to believe it. And thus I think alot of the prejudice we now have towards immigrants is from our government and media. Maybe if they said "the real reason you're all worse off is because of these greedy fuckers who make up 0.1% of the population but own 50% of the wealth" then we wouldn't have such a racism problem. Alot of the racism we have now has been manufactured by our media and government. Just like the same hatred was created for those on benefits in the past as they were the scape goat of the decade. I don't want to be put in a position of defending Lee as politically we are opposites. But I stand by the thought that I think he honestly believes what he says and I don't think the same can be said for other tories who are mostly playing games at our expense.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 11, 2024 15:32:23 GMT
Not a fan of Lee at all but I do think he believes what he says and is an honest politician in that sense. The likes of Sunak, Patel, Gove etc.. I think are more aware of the games in politics and when they strike up culture wars they know exactly what they're doing. They don't really care about solving the issues they create division over, power is what comes first. Whereas Lee I actually think believes in the stuff being pushed in culture wars and maybe thought there was a genuine desire in the tories to sort these "issues" rather than fuel them to create division. I wish Mr Anderson the best of luck in Reform anyway. No doubt the media will suddenly be thst bit tougher on him now too. I'm sure your right, 30P Lee is a genuine Racist who was a useful front man for the Conservatives who were more squeamish of being so openly so but enjoyed his stirring of Culture Wars He was thrown out of the Labour Party for Racist remarks against Travellers. He was eventually thrown out of the Conservative for Islamaphobic and Racist comments against Sadiq Khan. He has found his natural home in Reform 30P Lee's particular Shtick is as man of the people who speaks in plain English for the little people that's if you can ignore the stupidity and hypocrisy The spectical of 30P Lee and Tice gladhanding each other at today's Press Conference was priceless. Just a couple of weeks ago like two old Tarts they were trading insults 🤣 Why is he a racist? His Khan criticism was badly worded but what other stuff has he come out with that is racist?
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Post by gawa on Mar 11, 2024 15:34:48 GMT
I'm not a supporter but I do think he believes what he says. Do you? He said MP's shouldn't have second jobs. Until GB News offered him £100k a year for - er - a second job. He's a soundbite gobshite. I do. Yeah that was hypocritical of him and I presume his stance has since changed for whatever reason. I'm not trying to defend him as person. Simply saying that I think he believes in alot of the politics he says and as a result is more honest with himself than some other politicians. Doesn't mean I agree with his politics. We can agree to disagree as I expect we will all have different impressions of Lee and his honesty.
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Post by essexstokey on Mar 11, 2024 17:21:27 GMT
Breaking news a racist has found his home in a racist party what a suprise
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Post by wannabee on Mar 11, 2024 17:21:48 GMT
I'm sure your right, 30P Lee is a genuine Racist who was a useful front man for the Conservatives who were more squeamish of being so openly so but enjoyed his stirring of Culture Wars He was thrown out of the Labour Party for Racist remarks against Travellers. He was eventually thrown out of the Conservative for Islamaphobic and Racist comments against Sadiq Khan. He has found his natural home in Reform 30P Lee's particular Shtick is as man of the people who speaks in plain English for the little people that's if you can ignore the stupidity and hypocrisy The spectical of 30P Lee and Tice gladhanding each other at today's Press Conference was priceless. Just a couple of weeks ago like two old Tarts they were trading insults 🤣 So you agree? He does believe in what he says and in that sense is honest. I do think he has said stuff which can be interpreted as racist too. But when our government of 14 years fuels the thought that we are overrun by extremists and we are all worse off due to immigrants then people begin to believe it. And thus I think alot of the prejudice we now have towards immigrants is from our government and media. Maybe if they said "the real reason you're all worse off is because of these greedy fuckers who make up 0.1% of the population but own 50% of the wealth" then we wouldn't have such a racism problem. Alot of the racism we have now has been manufactured by our media and government. Just like the same hatred was created for those on benefits in the past as they were the scape goat of the decade. I don't want to be put in a position of defending Lee as politically we are opposites. But I stand by the thought that I think he honestly believes what he says and I don't think the same can be said for other tories who are mostly playing games at our expense. Of course I agree, I've already said I do. I have no doubt 30P Lee believes every Racist Comment he makes, which is why he declined to withdraw or apologise for his comments towards Khan I agree also that the Conservative Government is quite happy to allow casual racism and create wedge culture issues be reported in a compliant Press, its not as if they have anything to discuss about their record in Government. To be fair as a Political Tactic they wouldn't use it if there wasn't a certain cohort of people who share these "Conservative Values"
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Post by Veritas on Mar 11, 2024 17:30:01 GMT
So you agree? He does believe in what he says and in that sense is honest. I do think he has said stuff which can be interpreted as racist too. But when our government of 14 years fuels the thought that we are overrun by extremists and we are all worse off due to immigrants then people begin to believe it. And thus I think alot of the prejudice we now have towards immigrants is from our government and media. Maybe if they said "the real reason you're all worse off is because of these greedy fuckers who make up 0.1% of the population but own 50% of the wealth" then we wouldn't have such a racism problem. Alot of the racism we have now has been manufactured by our media and government. Just like the same hatred was created for those on benefits in the past as they were the scape goat of the decade. I don't want to be put in a position of defending Lee as politically we are opposites. But I stand by the thought that I think he honestly believes what he says and I don't think the same can be said for other tories who are mostly playing games at our expense. Of course I agree, I've already said I do. I have no doubt 30P Lee believes every Racist Comment he makes, which is why he declined to withdraw or apologise for his comments towards Khan I agree also that the Conservative Government is quite happy to allow casual racism and create wedge culture issues be reported in a compliant Press, its not as if they have anything to discuss about their record in Government. To be fair as a Political Tactic they wouldn't use it if there wasn't a certain cohort of people who share these "Conservative Values" I am not sure 30p really believes all the guff he spouts. Along with many on the Tory right he will say whatever he thinks will be politically advantageous to himself. He sees the Tory ticket is a no hoper with Reform as a better, albeit still slim, chance to save his seat. More importantly it builds on his persona as a GB News man for his lucrative post parliamentary career.
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Post by wannabee on Mar 11, 2024 17:50:22 GMT
Of course I agree, I've already said I do. I have no doubt 30P Lee believes every Racist Comment he makes, which is why he declined to withdraw or apologise for his comments towards Khan I agree also that the Conservative Government is quite happy to allow casual racism and create wedge culture issues be reported in a compliant Press, its not as if they have anything to discuss about their record in Government. To be fair as a Political Tactic they wouldn't use it if there wasn't a certain cohort of people who share these "Conservative Values" I am not sure 30p really believes all the guff he spouts. Along with many on the Tory right he will say whatever he thinks will be politically advantageous to himself. He sees the Tory ticket is a no hoper with Reform as a better, albeit still slim, chance to save his seat. More importantly it builds on his persona as a GB News man for his lucrative post parliamentary career. You may be right, but 30P Lee was making Racist comments which got him chucked out of the Labour Party before becoming a Conservative. I totally agree his more recent comments are aimed to cement his position with GBeebies
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Post by Veritas on Mar 11, 2024 17:54:50 GMT
I am not sure 30p really believes all the guff he spouts. Along with many on the Tory right he will say whatever he thinks will be politically advantageous to himself. He sees the Tory ticket is a no hoper with Reform as a better, albeit still slim, chance to save his seat. More importantly it builds on his persona as a GB News man for his lucrative post parliamentary career. You may be right, but 30P Lee was making Racist comments which got him chucked out of the Labour Party before becoming a Conservative. I totally agree his more recent comments are aimed to cement his position with GBeebies Very true.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 11, 2024 17:55:30 GMT
Calm down lefties, you’ll burst a blood vessel being all gammony over this
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Mar 11, 2024 18:29:26 GMT
Do you? He said MP's shouldn't have second jobs. Until GB News offered him £100k a year for - er - a second job. He's a soundbite gobshite. I do. Yeah that was hypocritical of him and I presume his stance has since changed for whatever reason. I'm not trying to defend him as person. Simply saying that I think he believes in alot of the politics he says and as a result is more honest with himself than some other politicians. Doesn't mean I agree with his politics. We can agree to disagree as I expect we will all have different impressions of Lee and his honesty. He also said that anyone who changes parties as a sitting MP should resign and call a by election. He hasn't. Lee's all about Lee.
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Post by gawa on Mar 11, 2024 19:45:44 GMT
He must be expecting quite a few more defectors if he's setting the cap at 10.
Think Tice suggested he was talking to 9 others.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 12, 2024 0:03:55 GMT
He must be expecting quite a few more defectors if he's setting the cap at 10. Think Tice suggested he was talking to 9 others. The Reform Revolution is happening. Ricky Tice - what a bloody bloke ❤️❤️
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2024 0:14:00 GMT
He must be expecting quite a few more defectors if he's setting the cap at 10. Think Tice suggested he was talking to 9 others. The Reform Revolution is happening. Ricky Tice - what a bloody bloke ❤️❤️ Are you happy with Lee Anderson moving over? I thought that he was supposed to have played a big part in voting for the continual lockdowns in the UK?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 12, 2024 0:15:07 GMT
I'd love them to abolish the "UK" bit though. Reminds me of that tin pot "Change UK" party which was basically a party for bitter, remoaner dorks with a chip on their shoulder. Anna Soubry 🤢🤢
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 12, 2024 0:22:11 GMT
The Reform Revolution is happening. Ricky Tice - what a bloody bloke ❤️❤️ Are you happy with Lee Anderson moving over? I thought that he was supposed to have played a big part in voting for the continual lockdowns in the UK? His decision to vote for continual lockdowns was insane. Something the Reform Party massively opposed, the only political voice that did. While he did a terrible thing in supporting lockdowns, there are other views he's got which I think would serve the British people well. More importantly though, he's massively put Reform on the map. We will almost certainly see more defectors from the right of the Tory party and his defection alone will undoubtedly benefit the popularity of the party come election time, in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2024 0:24:56 GMT
Are you happy with Lee Anderson moving over? I thought that he was supposed to have played a big part in voting for the continual lockdowns in the UK? His decision to vote for continual lockdowns was insane. Something the Reform Party massively opposed, the only political voice that did. While he did a terrible thing in supporting lockdowns, there are other views he's got which I think would serve the British people well. More importantly though, he's massively put Reform on the map. We will almost certainly see more defectors from the right of the Tory party and his defection alone will undoubtedly benefit the popularity of the party come election time, in my opinion. It is a good time for him to defect, i agree (if you ignore the reasons for him leaving and how that kind of smears Reform). However, are there any actual Tories that you’d like? Haven’t you, like myself and most on this thread generally shown a disdain for them? Or is it a quantity first, quality next kind of thing given the size of Reform?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 12, 2024 6:58:30 GMT
His decision to vote for continual lockdowns was insane. Something the Reform Party massively opposed, the only political voice that did. While he did a terrible thing in supporting lockdowns, there are other views he's got which I think would serve the British people well. More importantly though, he's massively put Reform on the map. We will almost certainly see more defectors from the right of the Tory party and his defection alone will undoubtedly benefit the popularity of the party come election time, in my opinion. It is a good time for him to defect, i agree (if you ignore the reasons for him leaving and how that kind of smears Reform). However, are there any actual Tories that you’d like? Haven’t you, like myself and most on this thread generally shown a disdain for them? Or is it a quantity first, quality next kind of thing given the size of Reform? There are very few Tories I'd like to see defect and they need to be careful they don't associate themselves to closely with such a failing party. But there is a harsh reality about it that to stand any chance of winning seats, they need to make themselves known and as we've seen from Anderson, MP's defecting gives them far more mainstream publicity than anything else could (outside of Farage taking a more active role) plus it gives Reform a voice in Parliament which they would never have otherwise had. There are one or two I like in the CRG wing but could probably count on one hand the number of Tory MP's I'd want to see defect. As it happens I quite like Anderson, albeit I'd undoubtedly disagree with him on certain points, ie covid lockdowns, as you've pointed out. I said it a few days ago, I think an awful lot of the Red wall could relate to him on so many issues. Tice is absolutely brilliant in my view and one of the most refreshing voices we've had in politics in a long time. I just hope he can win his seat because having such a measured, articulate and reasoned voice in Parliament can only be a good thing for the country. However, that calm, measured approach also works against him when selling his party because he's not the "in your face" Farage type who can quickly sweep up votes.
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Post by essexstokey on Mar 12, 2024 7:27:23 GMT
The climate is a mess We want to reach net zero so what's the tories plan build a gas and oil burning powerstation wonder who's getting the brown bag this time the party or the cronies and ministers
Get these parasites out now vote anti tory
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 12, 2024 7:43:15 GMT
I'm sure your right, 30P Lee is a genuine Racist who was a useful front man for the Conservatives who were more squeamish of being so openly so but enjoyed his stirring of Culture Wars He was thrown out of the Labour Party for Racist remarks against Travellers. He was eventually thrown out of the Conservative for Islamaphobic and Racist comments against Sadiq Khan. He has found his natural home in Reform 30P Lee's particular Shtick is as man of the people who speaks in plain English for the little people that's if you can ignore the stupidity and hypocrisy The spectical of 30P Lee and Tice gladhanding each other at today's Press Conference was priceless. Just a couple of weeks ago like two old Tarts they were trading insults 🤣 Why is he a racist? His Khan criticism was badly worded but what other stuff has he come out with that is racist? He isn't in the Tory party anymore so he doesn't need to use the dog whistle - he can at least be honest about his prejudices now he's in a party that doesn't need to face both ways. Which is a good thing. Holding racist views isn't illegal - incitement to racial hatred is. The verbal gymnastics performed by racists to claim they aren't racist is getting increasingly bizarre. I don't particularly like racists but I really can't stand mealey mouthed hypocritical racists. America at least has the Proud Boys. We have the Boys That Are Too Embarrassed to Speak Their Name So Use Thinly Disguised Innuendo Instead.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 12, 2024 11:45:24 GMT
Are you happy with Lee Anderson moving over? I thought that he was supposed to have played a big part in voting for the continual lockdowns in the UK? His decision to vote for continual lockdowns was insane. Something the Reform Party massively opposed, the only political voice that did. While he did a terrible thing in supporting lockdowns, there are other views he's got which I think would serve the British people well. More importantly though, he's massively put Reform on the map. We will almost certainly see more defectors from the right of the Tory party and his defection alone will undoubtedly benefit the popularity of the party come election time, in my opinion. In terms of upping the profile of Reform UK and increasing their popularity at the election I agree but you do realise this will pretty much decimate the Tories in the red wall seats, result in zero Reform UK MPs due to the unfairness of FPTP and (coupled with the Lib Dem challenge in the Tory heartlands) will result in an even bigger Labour majority after the general election? I don't get your glee at this - unless you think it will lead to a right wing coup in what's left of the Tory Party.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 12, 2024 13:18:24 GMT
His decision to vote for continual lockdowns was insane. Something the Reform Party massively opposed, the only political voice that did. While he did a terrible thing in supporting lockdowns, there are other views he's got which I think would serve the British people well. More importantly though, he's massively put Reform on the map. We will almost certainly see more defectors from the right of the Tory party and his defection alone will undoubtedly benefit the popularity of the party come election time, in my opinion. In terms of upping the profile of Reform UK and increasing their popularity at the election I agree but you do realise this will pretty much decimate the Tories in the red wall seats, result in zero Reform UK MPs due to the unfairness of FPTP and (coupled with the Lib Dem challenge in the Tory heartlands) will result in an even bigger Labour majority after the general election? I don't get your glee at this - unless you think it will lead to a right wing coup in what's left of the Tory Party. What's the alternative for those right of centre? You can't sit there with a straight face and tell me the majority of these current Tory mp's are on the right. I firmly believe having 10 vocal, competent Reform mp's and a few dozen Tory mp's is a better situation than having 0 Reform mp's and a couple of hundred useless Tory mp's. We've got a Labour government regardless so for those on the right, there needs to be a voice and that's not going to come from this painfully unconservative and indeed, detached, broken, inept government. Do you think Starmer would rather take questions from weak as piss dorks like Hunt, Sunak and Javid x40? Or Farage, Tice and Anderson? We both know that answer.
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Post by lordb on Mar 12, 2024 13:34:10 GMT
In terms of upping the profile of Reform UK and increasing their popularity at the election I agree but you do realise this will pretty much decimate the Tories in the red wall seats, result in zero Reform UK MPs due to the unfairness of FPTP and (coupled with the Lib Dem challenge in the Tory heartlands) will result in an even bigger Labour majority after the general election? I don't get your glee at this - unless you think it will lead to a right wing coup in what's left of the Tory Party. What's the alternative for those right of centre? You can't sit there with a straight face and tell me the majority of these current Tory mp's are on the right. I firmly believe having 10 vocal, competent Reform mp's and a few dozen Tory mp's is a better situation than having 0 Reform mp's and a couple of hundred useless Tory mp's. We've got a Labour government regardless so for those on the right, there needs to be a voice and that's not going to come from this painfully unconservative and indeed, detached, broken, inept government. Do you think Starmer would rather take questions from weak as piss dorks like Hunt, Sunak and Javid x40? Or Farage, Tice and Anderson? We both know that answer. Just for clarity, as I may have misunderstood your post, are saying we have (in effect) a Labour government right now?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 12, 2024 15:32:37 GMT
What's the alternative for those right of centre? You can't sit there with a straight face and tell me the majority of these current Tory mp's are on the right. I firmly believe having 10 vocal, competent Reform mp's and a few dozen Tory mp's is a better situation than having 0 Reform mp's and a couple of hundred useless Tory mp's. We've got a Labour government regardless so for those on the right, there needs to be a voice and that's not going to come from this painfully unconservative and indeed, detached, broken, inept government. Do you think Starmer would rather take questions from weak as piss dorks like Hunt, Sunak and Javid x40? Or Farage, Tice and Anderson? We both know that answer. Just for clarity, as I may have misunderstood your post, are saying we have (in effect) a Labour government right now? Can you tell the difference between Starmer and Sunak? So, yes. But my overall point was that Labour will almost certainly win the next election by a landslide and having a small number of Reform mp's would be far more effective and valuable to the right than a larger number of Tory mp's. Let's be honest, the whole reason Reform are causing such a stir is because traditional Conservative and red wall voters don't feel the Tories have addressed their concerns. I still think it's a huge ask for them take more than a couple seats but it's not out the question. Whatever happens, they are in somewhat unprecedented territory and it's incredibly exciting for right of centre voters, totally disaffected who, as Lee Anderson beautifully put yesterday simply "want their country back".
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Post by gawa on Mar 12, 2024 15:54:35 GMT
Just for clarity, as I may have misunderstood your post, are saying we have (in effect) a Labour government right now? Can you tell the difference between Starmer and Sunak? So, yes. But my overall point was that Labour will almost certainly win the next election by a landslide and having a small number of Reform mp's would be far more effective and valuable to the right than a larger number of Tory mp's. Let's be honest, the whole reason Reform are causing such a stir is because traditional Conservative and red wall voters don't feel the Tories have addressed their concerns. I still think it's a huge ask for them take more than a couple seats but it's not out the question. Whatever happens, they are in somewhat unprecedented territory and it's incredibly exciting for right of centre voters, totally disaffected who, as Lee Anderson beautifully put yesterday simply "want their country back". As someone who feels labour have went too far to the centre and more. I share this sentiment that it's exciting to have MPs to the left of them also elected. Don't agree with everything Galloway says but I welcome him as an alternative to labour who on many, but not all things, would be further left than the current crop. All labour and Tory seem to want to offer are left wing taxes with right wing public services while pissing our money down the drain.
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Post by gawa on Mar 12, 2024 16:22:56 GMT
Shameful actions by the speakers on both sides of the house. If I was a Boris tory supporter I'd be enraged by this.
Seems our two main parties don't care about democracy and convention. The gravy money from Israel will always put their interests above those of the British people.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Mar 12, 2024 16:30:43 GMT
Just for clarity, as I may have misunderstood your post, are saying we have (in effect) a Labour government right now? Can you tell the difference between Starmer and Sunak? So, yes. But my overall point was that Labour will almost certainly win the next election by a landslide and having a small number of Reform mp's would be far more effective and valuable to the right than a larger number of Tory mp's. Let's be honest, the whole reason Reform are causing such a stir is because traditional Conservative and red wall voters don't feel the Tories have addressed their concerns. I still think it's a huge ask for them take more than a couple seats but it's not out the question. Whatever happens, they are in somewhat unprecedented territory and it's incredibly exciting for right of centre voters, totally disaffected who, as Lee Anderson beautifully put yesterday simply "want their country back". I heard him say 'want ny country bsck' three times yesterday. I've a pretty good idea what he means (white, right and back to the 1950's) but he hardly put ut beautifully. Some rambling rhetoric about the Industrial Revolution, some historically inaccurate bollocks about two world wars and something about vaccines that most of his supporters wouldn't touch with a bargepole. At some point surely they need to stop facing backwards and give us a constructive vision beyond the w*g bashing, climate denial, and genital confusion. I've yet to see it.
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 12, 2024 17:57:22 GMT
I must say this Diane abbott debacle is a handy distraction from the fact the tories are releasing criminals early from prison as they have underfunded our justice system so badly for the past 14 years. I don’t think labour would have done the same particularly under Starmer given his career. Another big difference between the parties: the tories release criminals early.
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Post by lordb on Mar 12, 2024 18:08:32 GMT
Just for clarity, as I may have misunderstood your post, are saying we have (in effect) a Labour government right now? Can you tell the difference between Starmer and Sunak? So, yes. But my overall point was that Labour will almost certainly win the next election by a landslide and having a small number of Reform mp's would be far more effective and valuable to the right than a larger number of Tory mp's. Let's be honest, the whole reason Reform are causing such a stir is because traditional Conservative and red wall voters don't feel the Tories have addressed their concerns. I still think it's a huge ask for them take more than a couple seats but it's not out the question. Whatever happens, they are in somewhat unprecedented territory and it's incredibly exciting for right of centre voters, totally disaffected who, as Lee Anderson beautifully put yesterday simply "want their country back". Yes the difference is quite clear we have as right wing a government as we get in this country the incoming Labour government are probably going to pretty centrist so way to the left of the current government but no way near left enough If you actually think there is no difference at all then it's impossible to accept what you argue as anything other than trolling which is just really lazy
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