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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 19, 2023 13:09:51 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 19, 2023 13:13:20 GMT
He allowed 700,000 migrants to legally come to the UK last year, what's he on about, "THESE" people, it's the rhetoric of Enoch Powell? And who are these counties that he's referring to, that are our enemies? These are absolutely staggering words from a British Prime Minister. He knows his audience. "Look over there, those 35,000 are the reason you've got no NHS dentist and your gran's been waiting 3 years for surgery, nothing to do with the 1.5 million we've waved through since the start of 2022..." Surely, no-one who doesn't daily ingest the Mail or Express believes any of this distractionary shite?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 19, 2023 13:15:44 GMT
Isn't she one of the so-called New Conservatives? They sound awfully similar to the existing ones 😁
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 19, 2023 13:24:01 GMT
Isn't she one of the so-called New Conservatives? They sound awfully similar to the existing ones 😁 She has been accused of bringing "significant damage to the reputation of the House". Given their recent track record is that even possible? If it is then to do something that bad is actually quite an achievement.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2023 13:55:25 GMT
Just listening to the liaison committee with the PM now. One thing I hate about modern political conversations is the lack of an ability of some to debate. Listening to people just shout over each other is kind of pointless.
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Post by adri2008 on Dec 19, 2023 14:02:10 GMT
He knows his audience. "Look over there, those 35,000 are the reason you've got no NHS dentist and your gran's been waiting 3 years for surgery, nothing to do with the 1.5 million we've waved through since the start of 2022..." Surely, no-one who doesn't daily ingest the Mail or Express believes any of this distractionary shite? This is exactly what it is - it's designed to shut the right of his party up and force Labour to give their own position on the matter. Gutter politics but effective for a chunk of the electorate.
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Post by gawa on Dec 19, 2023 14:40:08 GMT
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Post by gawa on Dec 19, 2023 15:11:26 GMT
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Dec 19, 2023 21:45:46 GMT
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Post by wannabee on Dec 19, 2023 22:28:35 GMT
Not surprising he's about to lose his seat Having the whip removed may cause him more concern
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 19, 2023 22:33:53 GMT
Got to be a wind-up, surely! Nicked from th'internet - If you need any proof that Charlotte Owen isn't Boris Johnson's daughter – and you shouldn't – look how much time he spends with the rest of his kids. He'd never have one in his office.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 19, 2023 22:56:55 GMT
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Post by essexstokey on Dec 20, 2023 5:26:33 GMT
Another bye bye election 😄
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Post by henry on Dec 20, 2023 7:09:31 GMT
42% income tax on £43k ? That’s really rewarding hard work and personal development.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 20, 2023 8:29:25 GMT
42% income tax on £43k ? That’s really rewarding hard work and personal development. I guess the question is do you want better public services or not? Do you want the things we all rely on to work better, or not? If you do, you have to pay for them somehow. And you can do that through several ways: increase taxation to fund them, additional borrowing (and therefore increased debt and interest payments on that debt), increasing efficiency and reducing waste. To my mind, both one and three are the way forward. The third one on its own is much the preferred way of Conservative ideology and we can see where that has led us over the last 13 years and, indeed, during the 18 years of the Thatcher/Major governments: a great sell-off of nationalised industries to the point where we are all now paying more for privatised services which are, in many cases, no better or worse than previously and a reduction in the quality of public services through years of underfunding. The Scots appear to be adopting the broadly northern European/Scandinavian model of approaching this issue and rightly so. Whether they'll get it right in practice remains to be seen, their record on many issues is not great. But they won't resolve anything by cutting funding, as is the routine approach in England, no matter how much they think they can do stuff like forcing more work onto already hard-working key workers.
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Post by henry on Dec 20, 2023 8:43:56 GMT
42% income tax on £43k ? That’s really rewarding hard work and personal development. I guess the question is do you want better public services or not? Do you want the things we all rely on to work better, or not? If you do, you have to pay for them somehow. And you can do that through several ways: increase taxation to fund them, additional borrowing (and therefore increased debt and interest payments on that debt), increasing efficiency and reducing waste. To my mind, both one and three are the way forward. The third one on its own is much the preferred way of Conservative ideology and we can see where that has led us over the last 13 years and, indeed, during the 18 years of the Thatcher/Major governments: a great sell-off of nationalised industries to the point where we are all now paying more for privatised services which are, in many cases, no better or worse than previously and a reduction in the quality of public services through years of underfunding. The Scots appear to be adopting the broadly northern European/Scandinavian model of approaching this issue and rightly so. Whether they'll get it right in practice remains to be seen, their record on many issues is not great. But they won't resolve anything by cutting funding, as is the routine approach in England, no matter how much they think they can do stuff like forcing more work onto already hard-working key workers. We already pay too much tax in England. The 42% in Scotland is bordering on racketeering. I’m also baffled as to why the people saying English PAYE don’t pay enough tax, yet were very quick to slag off Hunt for not raising the income tax threshold, which in effect is a tax rise 🙄
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 20, 2023 9:47:47 GMT
I guess the question is do you want better public services or not? Do you want the things we all rely on to work better, or not? If you do, you have to pay for them somehow. And you can do that through several ways: increase taxation to fund them, additional borrowing (and therefore increased debt and interest payments on that debt), increasing efficiency and reducing waste. To my mind, both one and three are the way forward. The third one on its own is much the preferred way of Conservative ideology and we can see where that has led us over the last 13 years and, indeed, during the 18 years of the Thatcher/Major governments: a great sell-off of nationalised industries to the point where we are all now paying more for privatised services which are, in many cases, no better or worse than previously and a reduction in the quality of public services through years of underfunding. The Scots appear to be adopting the broadly northern European/Scandinavian model of approaching this issue and rightly so. Whether they'll get it right in practice remains to be seen, their record on many issues is not great. But they won't resolve anything by cutting funding, as is the routine approach in England, no matter how much they think they can do stuff like forcing more work onto already hard-working key workers. We already pay too much tax in England. The 42% in Scotland is bordering on racketeering. I’m also baffled as to why the people saying English PAYE don’t pay enough tax, yet were very quick to slag off Hunt for not raising the income tax threshold, which in effect is a tax rise 🙄 I guess it is about taxing the people who can afford to pay more, and not increasing taxes for those struggling the most. The tories tend to tax the poor and middle and not the rich so much. That’s why my average tax rate is higher than Sunak’s (he is infinitely richer than me). Capital taxes are where there should be tax increases as that generally targets the wealthy. Combine that with shutting loopholes and tax very high earners 50%, without differentiating between earned and non-earned income. NI is also a joke as it is effectively another income tax but only applies to income up to a certain level. Regulating energy profits and water costs would be another good way to help. They obviously should be nationalised but that’s unaffordable at the moment.
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Post by henry on Dec 20, 2023 10:01:21 GMT
We already pay too much tax in England. The 42% in Scotland is bordering on racketeering. I’m also baffled as to why the people saying English PAYE don’t pay enough tax, yet were very quick to slag off Hunt for not raising the income tax threshold, which in effect is a tax rise 🙄 I guess it is about taxing the people who can afford to pay more, and not increasing taxes for those struggling the most. The tories tend to tax the poor and middle and not the rich so much. That’s why my average tax rate is higher than Sunak’s (he is infinitely richer than me). Capital taxes are where there should be tax increases as that generally targets the wealthy. Combine that with shutting loopholes and tax very high earners 50%, without differentiating between earned and non-earned income. NI is also a joke as it is effectively another income tax but only applies to income up to a certain level. Regulating energy profits and water costs would be another good way to help. They obviously should be nationalised but that’s unaffordable at the moment. That’s not relevant to the Scottish tax system.
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Post by wannabee on Dec 20, 2023 10:12:16 GMT
I guess the question is do you want better public services or not? Do you want the things we all rely on to work better, or not? If you do, you have to pay for them somehow. And you can do that through several ways: increase taxation to fund them, additional borrowing (and therefore increased debt and interest payments on that debt), increasing efficiency and reducing waste. To my mind, both one and three are the way forward. The third one on its own is much the preferred way of Conservative ideology and we can see where that has led us over the last 13 years and, indeed, during the 18 years of the Thatcher/Major governments: a great sell-off of nationalised industries to the point where we are all now paying more for privatised services which are, in many cases, no better or worse than previously and a reduction in the quality of public services through years of underfunding. The Scots appear to be adopting the broadly northern European/Scandinavian model of approaching this issue and rightly so. Whether they'll get it right in practice remains to be seen, their record on many issues is not great. But they won't resolve anything by cutting funding, as is the routine approach in England, no matter how much they think they can do stuff like forcing more work onto already hard-working key workers. We already pay too much tax in England. The 42% in Scotland is bordering on racketeering. I’m also baffled as to why the people saying English PAYE don’t pay enough tax, yet were very quick to slag off Hunt for not raising the income tax threshold, which in effect is a tax rise 🙄 Red has already explained the rationale but there are other subtle differences Anyone in Scotland earning less than 28,500 pays less tax in Scotland Anyone earning over 28,500 up to 43,000 pays marginally more Anyone earning 50,000 in Scotland pays about 1,500 more per year than in England Anyone earning 150,000 in Scotland pays about 6,000 more per year than in England Its called Leveling Up You also pay a much lower Council Tax in Scotland If you don't like it, I suggest you write a strongly worded letter to the Telegraph who frequently have articles on this that distort the actual picture
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Post by henry on Dec 20, 2023 10:23:56 GMT
We already pay too much tax in England. The 42% in Scotland is bordering on racketeering. I’m also baffled as to why the people saying English PAYE don’t pay enough tax, yet were very quick to slag off Hunt for not raising the income tax threshold, which in effect is a tax rise 🙄 Red has already explained the rationale but there are other subtle differences Anyone in Scotland earning less than 28,500 pays less tax in Scotland Anyone earning over 28,500 up to 43,000 pays marginally more Anyone earning 50,000 in Scotland pays about 1,500 more per year than in England Anyone earning 150,000 in Scotland pays about 6,000 more per year than in England Its called Leveling Up You also pay a much lower Council Tax in Scotland If you don't like it, I suggest you write a strongly worded letter to the Telegraph who frequently have articles on this that distort the actual picture I hope everyone in Scotland earning above £43k is salary sacrificing and reducing their tax bill.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 20, 2023 10:42:22 GMT
Red has already explained the rationale but there are other subtle differences Anyone in Scotland earning less than 28,500 pays less tax in Scotland Anyone earning over 28,500 up to 43,000 pays marginally more Anyone earning 50,000 in Scotland pays about 1,500 more per year than in England Anyone earning 150,000 in Scotland pays about 6,000 more per year than in England Its called Leveling Up You also pay a much lower Council Tax in Scotland If you don't like it, I suggest you write a strongly worded letter to the Telegraph who frequently have articles on this that distort the actual picture I hope everyone in Scotland earning above £43k is salary sacrificing and reducing their tax bill. Given that the higher rate only applies to earnings over £43k (ie the money earned up to £43k is taxed at the lower rate) a salary sacrifice would indeed reduce the tax bill but it will also reduce their actual take home pay. Reducing your tax just for the sake of it is just petty.
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 20, 2023 10:48:40 GMT
I guess it is about taxing the people who can afford to pay more, and not increasing taxes for those struggling the most. The tories tend to tax the poor and middle and not the rich so much. That’s why my average tax rate is higher than Sunak’s (he is infinitely richer than me). Capital taxes are where there should be tax increases as that generally targets the wealthy. Combine that with shutting loopholes and tax very high earners 50%, without differentiating between earned and non-earned income. NI is also a joke as it is effectively another income tax but only applies to income up to a certain level. Regulating energy profits and water costs would be another good way to help. They obviously should be nationalised but that’s unaffordable at the moment. That’s not relevant to the Scottish tax system. I know. I was responding to your comments about the English system.
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Post by adri2008 on Dec 20, 2023 10:51:33 GMT
Higher taxes are inevitable with an ageing population/reducing birth rate if we want good public services. It's either that or we import taxable workers through immigration.
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Post by henry on Dec 20, 2023 10:52:39 GMT
I hope everyone in Scotland earning above £43k is salary sacrificing and reducing their tax bill. Given that the higher rate only applies to earnings over £43k (ie the money earned up to £43k is taxed at the lower rate) a salary sacrifice would indeed reduce the tax bill but it will also reduce their actual take home pay. Reducing your tax just for the sake of it is just petty. Is not better for the money to go towards your own private pension instead going towards a wasteful government?
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Post by wannabee on Dec 20, 2023 11:08:30 GMT
Given that the higher rate only applies to earnings over £43k (ie the money earned up to £43k is taxed at the lower rate) a salary sacrifice would indeed reduce the tax bill but it will also reduce their actual take home pay. Reducing your tax just for the sake of it is just petty. Is not better for the money to go towards your own private pension instead going towards a wasteful government? Like in England there are Annual Limits and Lifetime Limits
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Post by henry on Dec 20, 2023 11:17:47 GMT
Is not better for the money to go towards your own private pension instead going towards a wasteful government? Like in England there are Annual Limits and Lifetime Limits And ?
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 20, 2023 12:40:39 GMT
Given that the higher rate only applies to earnings over £43k (ie the money earned up to £43k is taxed at the lower rate) a salary sacrifice would indeed reduce the tax bill but it will also reduce their actual take home pay. Reducing your tax just for the sake of it is just petty. Is not better for the money to go towards your own private pension instead going towards a wasteful government? It depends if you want a decent health service and police force etc
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Post by wannabee on Dec 20, 2023 12:55:07 GMT
Like in England there are Annual Limits and Lifetime Limits And ? And? Its always a good idea to save for your Personal Pension but unless your increase in contributions takes you to a lower Tax Band there is no extra incentive to put more into your pension after yesterday's Budget than before. So you were incorrect in your proposition
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Post by gawa on Dec 20, 2023 13:13:54 GMT
42% income tax on £43k ? That’s really rewarding hard work and personal development. 42% income tax on pay over and beyond 43k. Not on 43k. We've had 15 years of "trickle down economics" and every single public service has got worse. At the same time inequality has grown significantly. Its a step in the right direction. I'm surprised to see you and others opposed to it as some of you make a big song and dance about the "working class". Is that just a facade? Because I don't know any working class people on 43k. Let me guess you think we need to reduce benefits for the vulnerable and sick, shut the borders from people fleeing war, remove the right to strike, increase banker bonuses, increase the limits people can put into pensions tax free to reduce their tax burden, reduce employee rights, keep the tax free non dom status, keep private schools as charities so they pay no tax and hope it all magically trickles down from the top and doesn't end up in some offshore tax haven. The last 15 years shows that doesn't work. The reason there's a big uproar about this from the usual right wing media and political commentators is because these lot are the ones which benefit most from the status quo. Of course they'll come out in their droves talking it down because they make a living out of telling poor people that they're poor because of other poor people. Taxing the rich and clamping down on tax evasion and tax avoidance is their worst nightmare. I'll continue to support the working class because thats my roots and thats what I believe in. I'm sure Anders Polvsen, Glenn Gordon, Sir Ian Wood and Co. Will appreciate your support and concern for them having to pay an extra 1% tax on earnings over and beyond 125k. I'm sure they'll also most certainly be using tricks such as putting more into pensions to avoid the tax burden too as you suggested. Luckily the Tory party, true defenders of the working class according to some of you, increased the tax free allowance on pensions from 40k per year to 60k per year a few months ago. I know crazy. In a time with veterans homeless on streets, food banks by the thousands and elderly people spending days sat on buses to stay warm that the tories made this change which only benefits the rich. But that's what.... in a very strange warped parallel universe... make them the "party of the working class". Also just to correct you. The 42% tax on people earning 43k isn't anything new, it's been there a while. The changes are increased tax on people earning over 75k. It's like me debating why do people earning 15k pay 20% tax and saying that's not rewarding.... it's not changed or different. So no idea why your focus is on thst rather than the tax changes introduced. In England you pay 40% tax on earnings above 37.7k. In Scotland you're paying 21% tax up until 43.7k. So if you think 42% on 43.7k is bad. God knows what you think about those on 37.7k in England.
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Post by henry on Dec 20, 2023 13:26:09 GMT
42% income tax on £43k ? That’s really rewarding hard work and personal development. 42% income tax on pay over and beyond 43k. Not on 43k. We've had 15 years of "trickle down economics" and every single public service has got worse. At the same time inequality has grown significantly. Its a step in the right direction. I'm surprised to see you and others opposed to it as some of you make a big song and dance about the "working class". Is that just a facade? Because I don't know any working class people on 43k. Let me guess you think we need to reduce benefits for the vulnerable and sick, shut the borders from people fleeing war, remove the right to strike, increase banker bonuses, increase the limits people can put into pensions tax free to reduce their tax burden, reduce employee rights, keep the tax free non dom status, keep private schools as charities so they pay no tax and hope it all magically trickles down from the top and doesn't end up in some offshore tax haven. The last 15 years shows that doesn't work. The reason there's a big uproar about this from the usual right wing media and political commentators is because these lot are the ones which benefit most from the status quo. Of course they'll come out in their droves talking it down because they make a living out of telling poor people that they're poor because of other poor people. Taxing the rich and clamping down on tax evasion and tax avoidance is their worst nightmare. I'll continue to support the working class because thats my roots and thats what I believe in. I'm sure Anders Polvsen, Glenn Gordon, Sir Ian Wood and Co. Will appreciate your support and concern for them having to pay an extra 1% tax on earnings over and beyond 125k. I'm sure they'll also most certainly be using tricks such as putting more into pensions to avoid the tax burden too as you suggested. Luckily the Tory party, true defenders of the working class according to some of you, increased the tax free allowance on pensions from 40k per year to 60k per year a few months ago. I know crazy. In a time with veterans homeless on streets, food banks by the thousands and elderly people spending days sat on buses to stay warm that the tories made this change which only benefits the rich. But that's what.... in a very strange warped parallel universe... make them the "party of the working class". Also just to correct you. The 42% tax on people earning 43k isn't anything new, it's been there a while. The changes are increased tax on people earning over 75k. It's like me debating why do people earning 15k pay 20% tax and saying that's not rewarding.... it's not changed or different. So no idea why your focus is on thst rather than the tax changes introduced. In England you pay 40% tax on earnings above 37.7k. In Scotland you're paying 21% tax up until 43.7k. So if you think 42% on 43.7k is bad. God knows what you think about those on 37.7k in England. They are terrible tax thresholds in Scotland. I’ve said above what I’d do. Where have I said this government was for the working class?
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