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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 4, 2023 20:58:08 GMT
Come on then, tell me how centre right the following are: 1. Vat on private school fees 2. Increasing windfall taxes on energy companies 3. Abolishing non-dom status 4. Creating a nationalised green energy company How centre right is: 1. Raising minimum wage significantly 2. Increasing Job Seekers Allowance 3. 30 hours a week free childcare 4. Changes to bring prepayment meters in line with the costs those on direct debit pay. I know you and redwhiteblue LOVE starmer but in todays climate the policies which he hasn't yet u turned on aren't particularly inspiring in the slightest. Ed Davey gives me more confidence in helping those who need it and his party is meant to be to the right of labour. You criticise Starmer for being right wing and having no policies. So I name 4 of his not many policies and they are all left of centre rather than right of centre. You won’t be happy unless he turns into Corbyn. Corbyn lost. The labour left need to accept that. Starmer has a real chance of winning. Give him a chance
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Post by gawa on Dec 4, 2023 21:15:09 GMT
How centre right is: 1. Raising minimum wage significantly 2. Increasing Job Seekers Allowance 3. 30 hours a week free childcare 4. Changes to bring prepayment meters in line with the costs those on direct debit pay. I know you and redwhiteblue LOVE starmer but in todays climate the policies which he hasn't yet u turned on aren't particularly inspiring in the slightest. Ed Davey gives me more confidence in helping those who need it and his party is meant to be to the right of labour. You criticise Starmer for being right wing and having no policies. So I name 4 of his not many policies and they are all left of centre rather than right of centre. You won’t be happy unless he turns into Corbyn. Corbyn lost. The labour left need to accept that. Starmer has a real chance of winning. Give him a chance There are many labour politicians I'd support as leader aside from Starmer.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 4, 2023 21:21:31 GMT
You criticise Starmer for being right wing and having no policies. So I name 4 of his not many policies and they are all left of centre rather than right of centre. You won’t be happy unless he turns into Corbyn. Corbyn lost. The labour left need to accept that. Starmer has a real chance of winning. Give him a chance There are many labour politicians I'd support as leader aside from Starmer. I’d support Rayners tits if she paid well
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 4, 2023 21:24:07 GMT
You criticise Starmer for being right wing and having no policies. So I name 4 of his not many policies and they are all left of centre rather than right of centre. You won’t be happy unless he turns into Corbyn. Corbyn lost. The labour left need to accept that. Starmer has a real chance of winning. Give him a chance There are many labour politicians I'd support as leader aside from Starmer. Great. Are you saying right now there should be a leadership challenge!?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 4, 2023 21:24:44 GMT
Let’s not beat around the “bush” here. You can tell Nige is getting his mojo back in the jungle, putting French waiters and Italian midgets in their place. He will come out with huge public support and get going in the new year to split the vote and make both major parties look utterly unelectable
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Post by andystokey on Dec 4, 2023 21:40:51 GMT
How centre right is: 1. Raising minimum wage significantly 2. Increasing Job Seekers Allowance 3. 30 hours a week free childcare 4. Changes to bring prepayment meters in line with the costs those on direct debit pay. I know you and redwhiteblue LOVE starmer but in todays climate the policies which he hasn't yet u turned on aren't particularly inspiring in the slightest. Ed Davey gives me more confidence in helping those who need it and his party is meant to be to the right of labour. You criticise Starmer for being right wing and having no policies. So I name 4 of his not many policies and they are all left of centre rather than right of centre. You won’t be happy unless he turns into Corbyn. Corbyn lost. The labour left need to accept that. Starmer has a real chance of winning. Give him a chance Correct, but in the 2017 GE Corbyn polled more votes (12.8M) than Cameron (2015 elected), Cameron (2010 elected) Blair (2005 elected) Blair (2001 elected) The policies were not the problem.
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Post by Veritas on Dec 4, 2023 22:31:15 GMT
Let’s not beat around the “bush” here. You can tell Nige is getting his mojo back in the jungle, putting French waiters and Italian midgets in their place. He will come out with huge public support and get going in the new year to split the vote and make both major parties look utterly unelectable No he won't
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 4, 2023 22:35:56 GMT
You criticise Starmer for being right wing and having no policies. So I name 4 of his not many policies and they are all left of centre rather than right of centre. You won’t be happy unless he turns into Corbyn. Corbyn lost. The labour left need to accept that. Starmer has a real chance of winning. Give him a chance Correct, but in the 2017 GE Corbyn polled more votes (12.8M) than Cameron (2015 elected), Cameron (2010 elected) Blair (2005 elected) Blair (2001 elected) The policies were not the problem. I agree. His ability to win an election was the problem.
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Post by wannabee on Dec 4, 2023 23:44:15 GMT
I agree with what wannabee said if Stamer's quote had been about conviction politicians I would probably not have such a difficult challenge. She did have conviction and undoubtedly changed Britain. He chose to highlight a positive of her tenure, "entrepreneurial spirit". Rather than point out the giveaway of the family jewels to her city backers and a class war. He just left it it ambiguous enough to pacify Tory voters and the media moguls and he did it on purpose. I think he knows how to play the game. I assume you mean Starmer rather than myself.... The reality is the UK Economy and Public Services are currently a shambles. When we currently lurch from one crisis to another the current Government response is to tinker around the edges and talk about a new Policy they are going to implement and has no intention or no time In Office to do so. The Labour response to this is to criticise, keep the Policy but with further tinkering. The Electorate has no clear choice other than the Current Administration is a bunch of incompetents but the alternative doesn't seem to offer much different The thinking is on a record low apathetic electoral turnout is that less people will vote to retain the present administration and by default Labour win the Election. It's a strategy that may work but on day 1 we will have very little idea what positive actions Labour will take I am loathe to mention Liz Truss but her central point of Low Growth being the enemy is correct even if she went about it entirely the wrong way The Central Platform of Labour is the establishment of a Sovereign Energy Wealth Fund which is baby steps to what Norway did back in the 1970s (and now has $Trillions) with their Oil and Gas resources and Starmer's new found friend Thatcher failed to do. She preferred to grant the licences to Commercial Companies paying a fee to the Treasury so she could close down Industry and pay the unemployed workforce meagre unemployment benefits Already this Labour Policy is being watered down from its proposed £28Bn per year to perhaps that amount later in its tenure. Even the most Economically unsophisticated household knows the difference and can do Rishi's maths if you have to borrow to buy a car which enables you to get to work and the benefit is the amount you earn less your loan repayment versus what you receive from not working or working close by. If you are a renter considering buying a Property you consider the rent you pay versus the mortgage cost and the capital appreciation It's not Rocket Science if Government increases National Debt to generate income to service productive debt the Markets look favourably. If you are a Lunatic like Truss and borrow to give a Tax Break to people that won't spend it therefore creating no added value they react negatively This is Labour's current 6 point blueprint for its Election Manifesto. I wholeheartedly agree with increasing the number of UK Doctors and Nurses the rest I find wishy-washy and we know Manifestos aren't worth the paper they're written on and Starmer has form for U-turning, so we'll see. labourlist.org/2023/10/labour-national-policy-forum-final-document-summary-policy-manifesto-party-conference/
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 5, 2023 7:53:32 GMT
I think he knows how to play the game. I assume you mean Starmer rather than myself.... The reality is the UK Economy and Public Services are currently a shambles. When we currently lurch from one crisis to another the current Government response is to tinker around the edges and talk about a new Policy they are going to implement and has no intention or no time In Office to do so. The Labour response to this is to criticise, keep the Policy but with further tinkering. The Electorate has no clear choice other than the Current Administration is a bunch of incompetents but the alternative doesn't seem to offer much different The thinking is on a record low apathetic electoral turnout is that less people will vote to retain the present administration and by default Labour win the Election. It's a strategy that may work but on day 1 we will have very little idea what positive actions Labour will take I am loathe to mention Liz Truss but her central point of Low Growth being the enemy is correct even if she went about it entirely the wrong way The Central Platform of Labour is the establishment of a Sovereign Energy Wealth Fund which is baby steps to what Norway did back in the 1970s (and now has $Trillions) with their Oil and Gas resources and Starmer's new found friend Thatcher failed to do. She preferred to grant the licences to Commercial Companies paying a fee to the Treasury so she could close down Industry and pay the unemployed workforce meagre unemployment benefits Already this Labour Policy is being watered down from its proposed £28Bn per year to perhaps that amount later in its tenure. Even the most Economically unsophisticated household knows the difference and can do Rishi's maths if you have to borrow to buy a car which enables you to get to work and the benefit is the amount you earn less your loan repayment versus what you receive from not working or working close by. If you are a renter considering buying a Property you consider the rent you pay versus the mortgage cost and the capital appreciation It's not Rocket Science if Government increases National Debt to generate income to service productive debt the Markets look favourably. If you are a Lunatic like Truss and borrow to give a Tax Break to people that won't spend it therefore creating no added value they react negatively This is Labour's current 6 point blueprint for its Election Manifesto. I wholeheartedly agree with increasing the number of UK Doctors and Nurses the rest I find wishy-washy and we know Manifestos aren't worth the paper they're written on and Starmer has form for U-turning, so we'll see. labourlist.org/2023/10/labour-national-policy-forum-final-document-summary-policy-manifesto-party-conference/I tend to agree. Judge Labour by what they do if they get the keys to number 10 (or maybe before when we have the manifesto). That link is full of lots of positive things which would improve the country. Let’s hope they deliver if/when given the chance. We know the tories don’t care about the wider public.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 5, 2023 8:03:18 GMT
It's like Groundhog Day! Surely not even Express readers are thick enough to believe this, seven years after being told the Brexit thing they cherished so much would get rid of foreigners for them...
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Post by Veritas on Dec 5, 2023 9:20:22 GMT
It's like Groundhog Day! Surely not even Express readers are thick enough to believe this, seven years after being told the Brexit thing they cherished so much would get rid of foreigners for them... Be fair the Tories deserve credit for coming up with a plan, even if it is a rubbish one, to clear up the mess caused by 13 years of problems caused by a succession of inept governments. 🤔
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 5, 2023 13:05:28 GMT
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Dec 5, 2023 13:18:18 GMT
It's like Groundhog Day! Surely not even Express readers are thick enough to believe this, seven years after being told the Brexit thing they cherished so much would get rid of foreigners for them... There you go again. Underestimate the stupidity of the Express/Mail demographic at your peril.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 5, 2023 13:34:37 GMT
Not sure if this would have been better placed on the Clown World thread actually! 🤦♂️
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Post by lordb on Dec 5, 2023 13:37:19 GMT
Not sure if this would have been better placed on the Clown World thread actually! 🤦♂️ Corrupt & inept in one go
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 5, 2023 14:04:37 GMT
They're complete dickheads aren't they? 🤦♂️
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Post by wannabee on Dec 5, 2023 15:59:22 GMT
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Post by satoshi on Dec 5, 2023 16:50:39 GMT
The Rwanda thing is back on
Apart from everyone knows it’s getting blocked again
More utter faffing by numptys
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Dec 5, 2023 16:53:04 GMT
Let’s not beat around the “bush” here. You can tell Nige is getting his mojo back in the jungle, putting French waiters and Italian midgets in their place. He will come out with huge public support and get going in the new year to split the vote and make both major parties look utterly unelectable Do we really need someone to make both major parties look unelectable? They seem to be doing a fine job of it without any external influences.
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Dec 5, 2023 16:56:52 GMT
The Rwanda thing is back on Apart from everyone knows it’s getting blocked again More utter faffing by numptys They should fund it from their own back pocket with a full reinbursement due when the scheme is up and running. I'd love to know where the money is being syphoned off to. It's an even shitter idea than the latest proposal to raise the required earnings to receive a work visa, preventing immigration from solving just about the only problem it solves - skills shortages. It's like Julius Nicholson's 'blue sky' thinking back there, and it's costing the tax payer billions.
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Post by gawa on Dec 5, 2023 17:28:43 GMT
The Rwanda thing is back on Apart from everyone knows it’s getting blocked again More utter faffing by numptys They should fund it from their own back pocket with a full reinbursement due when the scheme is up and running. I'd love to know where the money is being syphoned off to. It's an even shitter idea than the latest proposal to raise the required earnings to receive a work visa, preventing immigration from solving just about the only problem it solves - skills shortages. It's like Julius Nicholson's 'blue sky' thinking back there, and it's costing the tax payer billions. The shadow home Secretary refused to say she'd scrap Rwanda when asked three times today.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 5, 2023 18:15:49 GMT
They're complete dickheads aren't they? 🤦♂️ All part of a deliberate scorched earth policy fucking up the country purely to make it harder for the next government. Tories love this country, patriots the lot of them.
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Post by andystokey on Dec 5, 2023 18:25:41 GMT
They're complete dickheads aren't they? 🤦♂️ All part of a deliberate scorched earth policy fucking up the country purely to make it harder for the next government. Tories love this country, patriots the lot of them. Do you really think any of them even know or have experienced the care system? They'd be apoplectic if someone dipped into their entire life savings and house value and left about £20k behind to provide care. It's only mugs like us that need it and they demonise the workforce helping look after our loved ones. Every MP should be forced to experience the state provision in every sector; education, health, social care. They live in a different universe.
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Post by gawa on Dec 5, 2023 18:27:51 GMT
No Thai brides unless you're in the top 25% of earners lads.
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Post by wannabee on Dec 5, 2023 18:45:16 GMT
Meaning if a Brit want to bring his foreign spouse to UK they must earn above the Median Wage of which more than 50% don't. Considerably more don't in the under 30 age group
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 5, 2023 18:48:34 GMT
No Thai brides unless you're in the top 25% of earners lads. Oggy should be fine then 😉
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 5, 2023 19:00:54 GMT
They should fund it from their own back pocket with a full reinbursement due when the scheme is up and running. I'd love to know where the money is being syphoned off to. It's an even shitter idea than the latest proposal to raise the required earnings to receive a work visa, preventing immigration from solving just about the only problem it solves - skills shortages. It's like Julius Nicholson's 'blue sky' thinking back there, and it's costing the tax payer billions. The shadow home Secretary refused to say she'd scrap Rwanda when asked three times today. Why throw good money after bad? It may act as some sort of deterrent even if no flights take off. Why commit to abolishing an entire bill when all you want is to get rid of one part? Just costs more public money and there may be no need/point. Easier to pass secondary legislation amending the act rather than abolishing the whole thing as there may be parts of the bill that are useful. She was very critical of the policy and said she would replace it. So that is a pretty clear indication of what she thinks about it.
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Post by gawa on Dec 5, 2023 19:11:53 GMT
The shadow home Secretary refused to say she'd scrap Rwanda when asked three times today. Why throw good money after bad? It may act as some sort of deterrent even if no flights take off. Why commit to abolishing an entire bill when all you want is to get rid of one part? Just costs more public money and there may be no need/point. Easier to pass secondary legislation amending the act rather than abolishing the whole thing as there may be parts of the bill that are useful. She was very critical of the policy and said she would replace it. So that is a pretty clear indication of what she thinks about it. Which parts do you think are useful?
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Post by essexstokey on Dec 5, 2023 21:14:36 GMT
Wonder if this story was putt out as a smoke screen fir ler lier pants on fire day tomorrow at covid enquiry
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