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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 23, 2023 7:53:47 GMT
Levelling up? Fuck 'em, those northern monkeys are all as thick as shit ... I still don't understand why they wouldn't convert that 2% into the abolished "social care" tax and do some good. Hunt could barely hide his hardon for "beautiful leafy Surrey" whilst handing out freebies to constituency MPs on his own benches. The 2% redistributed evenly across the UK into social care would have evened out that map. Those with the broadest back taking the burden. Because they're Tories?
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Nov 23, 2023 8:00:00 GMT
I’m not sure where you are getting your figures from, but in 2015 it raised €5.22bn in France. Not loads but many times more than €2m. If it led to people leaving which overall reduces tax revenue then it may not be the right thing to do. There are plenty other things that could be done to tax wealth. Closing IHT and CGT loopholes and taxing CGT at the same level as income tax would be a start. A 50%tax on income over £500k or on any income if your capital is worth over a certain level. Tax dividends and other non earned income the same as income tax levels (inclusive of NI). Personally I would get rid of NI, measure state pension contributions another way and simplify the tax code. I don’t think it is right that Rishi Sunak pays less tax as a percentage than me. I have high income but very little capital. Why should I be taxed more than multi millionaires? France does not have a Wealth Tax per se since 2018 It has a Tax on Property which generates about 1% of all Taxes raised in France You keep changing the agenda I totally agree that the UK Tax Code should be reformed and earned and unearned income should be taxed at the same rate and deductables should be scrapped and I have said so 3 or 4 times already on this thread and beforehand The headline figure of Revenue raised does not take account of the negative consequences of Revenue lost which is why the vast majority of Countries that did have a Wealth Tax no longer have. Individuals are not static and can alter their practices to avoid paying tax if it's convenient and easy which most Countries discovered I realise you have a particular issue with high value Property not being Taxed (which would be a Property Tax not a Wealth Tax) while you struggle to get on the ladder in the location you reside If you want to die on the cross for a Wealth Tax so be it, I've said all I've needed to say on the subject. I've heard the uk tax system is regarded as the most complex system in the world. With good reason I expect so the uber rich can afford the advice to benefit from it and avoid paying what logic says they should. And the rest of us are too scared and confused to fuck about with it and end up paying more just to be safe. The amount of run ins I've had with HMRC over minor amounts of tax etc is seriously depressing. I guarantee they've caused many suicides. Horrible to say but no doubt true 😞
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Post by andystokey on Nov 23, 2023 8:07:20 GMT
I still don't understand why they wouldn't convert that 2% into the abolished "social care" tax and do some good. Hunt could barely hide his hardon for "beautiful leafy Surrey" whilst handing out freebies to constituency MPs on his own benches. The 2% redistributed evenly across the UK into social care would have evened out that map. Those with the broadest back taking the burden. Because they're Tories? Indeed, but they wouldn't have broken their manifesto pledge (not increasing NI) and still achieved the objective. Truth is anyone benefitting from social care reform is unlikely to be a Tory voter. Home counties, pensioners and the South benefitting from cuts in HS2, NI etc. It's a statement that circles the waggons around their base and fuck the rest of us.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 23, 2023 8:46:34 GMT
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Post by 828492 on Nov 23, 2023 9:23:31 GMT
Hunt says that the 2% NI reduction will mean more jobs because it reduces the cost of employing someone. Does he not understand the difference between employees NI and employers NI? The reduction is to employees NI it means the employee pays less NI, the benefit goes to the employee so that they can pay the increased energy charges or the 10%+ grocery inflation. There is no reduction in the amount of NI the employer pays on chargeable earnings. There will be no new jobs as the result of this reduction. Hunt again shows the contempt that this corrupt bunch of charlatans have for us. Election NOW!
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 9:39:07 GMT
Henry on your about £32,500 Annual Salary if the Tax Thresholds had been raised normally in line with inflation in September 2022 and 2023 the frozen £12,571 at which you pay 20% Tax would have been £2,500 higher meaning you would pay £500 less Tax If this sleight of hand makes you happy, good luck with that. Open goal for Labour then. What was Reeves stance on the raising of the income tax threshold of £2500 at your party conference? And Reeves put the ball in the empty net in her reply to Hunt yesterday and pointed out this sleight of hand. The problem Labour has is if they unwind what the Tories have done, it creates huge problems for the public purse. That is partly why the Tories have done it. The tories have unleashed austerity again with this statement as departmental budgets must be cut and savings must be found as their budgets are not linked to inflation. Labour are expected to repair the economic damage of the tories whilst also improving public services. That is going to be difficult but the money is there in the hands of the rich, and they just need to work out the best way of taxing them to pay for the mess made by their Tory mates of absolutely everything in this country.
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Post by knype on Nov 23, 2023 9:43:14 GMT
And that's the governments fault how exactly?
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 9:45:53 GMT
I’m not sure where you are getting your figures from, but in 2015 it raised €5.22bn in France. Not loads but many times more than €2m. If it led to people leaving which overall reduces tax revenue then it may not be the right thing to do. There are plenty other things that could be done to tax wealth. Closing IHT and CGT loopholes and taxing CGT at the same level as income tax would be a start. A 50%tax on income over £500k or on any income if your capital is worth over a certain level. Tax dividends and other non earned income the same as income tax levels (inclusive of NI). Personally I would get rid of NI, measure state pension contributions another way and simplify the tax code. I don’t think it is right that Rishi Sunak pays less tax as a percentage than me. I have high income but very little capital. Why should I be taxed more than multi millionaires? France does not have a Wealth Tax per se since 2018 It has a Tax on Property which generates about 1% of all Taxes raised in France You keep changing the agenda I totally agree that the UK Tax Code should be reformed and earned and unearned income should be taxed at the same rate and deductables should be scrapped and I have said so 3 or 4 times already on this thread and beforehand The headline figure of Revenue raised does not take account of the negative consequences of Revenue lost which is why the vast majority of Countries that did have a Wealth Tax no longer have. Individuals are not static and can alter their practices to avoid paying tax if it's convenient and easy which most Countries discovered I realise you have a particular issue with high value Property not being Taxed (which would be a Property Tax not a Wealth Tax) while you struggle to get on the ladder in the location you reside If you want to die on the cross for a Wealth Tax so be it, I've said all I've needed to say on the subject. Property Tax, Wealth tax, whatever you want to call it. It is just a label. It is about taxing the people who won’t even notice it to pay for public services the wider population desperately need improving. That coupled with closing loopholes would generate a lot of money. Some may leave. But I expect the majority of people worth over £10m wouldn’t permanently leave their home just because they have to pay an extra 1% of tax a year. I’d increase that percentage as wealth increases. Prohibiting being a landlord as a business and so preventing companies owning buy to let residential property would be an option I would explore. Housing should be seen as more of a need and less of a commodity. I would also tax air bnb/short term letting profits at much higher level regardless of overall income, and remove the ability to deduct expenses to reduce tax. They destroy local communities and make it so there are no rental properties for locals who need to rent a home close to their children’s school.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 23, 2023 9:46:34 GMT
And that's the governments fault how exactly? Talking of economic illiterates....
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 9:50:23 GMT
And that's the governments fault how exactly? Because wholesale prices for suppliers are not that much more than they were 2 years ago, but the amount we pay as consumers is up 50% at least in 2 years. The government should regulate the profit margin or at least tax the profits of these companies at 99%. It is why energy should be nationalised ideally (it would be unaffordable now hence the need for the green energy company Labour will set up, and regulations to reduce share prices of the private companies)
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Post by henry on Nov 23, 2023 9:51:59 GMT
Open goal for Labour then. What was Reeves stance on the raising of the income tax threshold of £2500 at your party conference? And Reeves put the ball in the empty net in her reply to Hunt yesterday and pointed out this sleight of hand. The problem Labour has is if they unwind what the Tories have done, it creates huge problems for the public purse. That is partly why the Tories have done it. The tories have unleashed austerity again with this statement as departmental budgets must be cut and savings must be found as their budgets are not linked to inflation. Labour are expected to repair the economic damage of the tories whilst also improving public services. That is going to be difficult but the money is there in the hands of the rich, and they just need to work out the best way of taxing them to pay for the mess made by their Tory mates of absolutely everything in this country. I must have missed what Reeves said yesterday. What has she said Labour will increase the threshold to ?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 23, 2023 9:55:54 GMT
The Home Sec called it a shithole in Parliament today Yes I know, but what’s so bad about Stockton?
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Post by knype on Nov 23, 2023 10:00:54 GMT
And that's the governments fault how exactly? Talking of economic illiterates.... Wow, and you still get away with it...
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 23, 2023 10:00:56 GMT
The Home Sec called it a shithole in Parliament today Yes I know, but what’s so bad about Stockton? The MP for North Stockton asked why a third of the children in his constituency were living below the poverty line and Cleverley shouted out "because it's a shithole!" Why did he say that? Because he's an utter bastard.
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Post by knype on Nov 23, 2023 10:01:44 GMT
And that's the governments fault how exactly? Because wholesale prices for suppliers are not that much more than they were 2 years ago, but the amount we pay as consumers is up 50% at least in 2 years. The government should regulate the profit margin or at least tax the profits of these companies at 99%. It is why energy should be nationalised ideally (it would be unaffordable now hence the need for the green energy company Labour will set up, and regulations to reduce share prices of the private companies) Doesn't Ofgem control and regulate that though?
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 10:03:28 GMT
And Reeves put the ball in the empty net in her reply to Hunt yesterday and pointed out this sleight of hand. The problem Labour has is if they unwind what the Tories have done, it creates huge problems for the public purse. That is partly why the Tories have done it. The tories have unleashed austerity again with this statement as departmental budgets must be cut and savings must be found as their budgets are not linked to inflation. Labour are expected to repair the economic damage of the tories whilst also improving public services. That is going to be difficult but the money is there in the hands of the rich, and they just need to work out the best way of taxing them to pay for the mess made by their Tory mates of absolutely everything in this country. I must have missed what Reeves said yesterday. What has she said Labour will increase the threshold to ? She didn’t. She called out the tory fake tax cut. I guess we have to wait for the manifesto before knowing the full taxation policy
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 10:03:54 GMT
Because wholesale prices for suppliers are not that much more than they were 2 years ago, but the amount we pay as consumers is up 50% at least in 2 years. The government should regulate the profit margin or at least tax the profits of these companies at 99%. It is why energy should be nationalised ideally (it would be unaffordable now hence the need for the green energy company Labour will set up, and regulations to reduce share prices of the private companies) Doesn't Ofgem control and regulate that though? Not with any competency or morality.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 10:04:24 GMT
The Home Sec called it a shithole in Parliament today Yes I know, but what’s so bad about Stockton? I’ve never been so I don’t know
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 23, 2023 10:05:45 GMT
Yes I know, but what’s so bad about Stockton? The MP for North Stockton asked why a third of the children in his constituency were living below the poverty line and Cleverley shouted out "because it's a shithole!" Why did he say that? Because he's an utter bastard. And the correct answer would have been “because we have had a tory run government for the last 13 years”
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Post by adri2008 on Nov 23, 2023 10:09:31 GMT
Indeed, but they wouldn't have broken their manifesto pledge (not increasing NI) and still achieved the objective. Truth is anyone benefitting from social care reform is unlikely to be a Tory voter. Home counties, pensioners and the South benefitting from cuts in HS2, NI etc. It's a statement that circles the waggons around their base and fuck the rest of us. Social care reform is going to cost money so toxic politically to whoever tries to deliver it. Theresa May and BoJo surprisingly made an attempt at funding it ('dementia tax', social care levy) but the policies were dropped after massive wailing/gnashing of teeth. People love all sorts of policies until its them that's paying for it.
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Post by knype on Nov 23, 2023 10:23:07 GMT
Doesn't Ofgem control and regulate that though? Not with any competency or morality. Totally agree with that but can the government dictate to what they do as they're an independent body?
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Post by elystokie on Nov 23, 2023 10:29:15 GMT
Not with any competency or morality. Totally agree with that but can the government dictate to what they do as they're an independent body? This government don't seem averse to changing the law on little more than a whimsical thought so you'd have thought they'd have at least some influence.
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 23, 2023 10:35:26 GMT
France does not have a Wealth Tax per se since 2018 It has a Tax on Property which generates about 1% of all Taxes raised in France You keep changing the agenda I totally agree that the UK Tax Code should be reformed and earned and unearned income should be taxed at the same rate and deductables should be scrapped and I have said so 3 or 4 times already on this thread and beforehand The headline figure of Revenue raised does not take account of the negative consequences of Revenue lost which is why the vast majority of Countries that did have a Wealth Tax no longer have. Individuals are not static and can alter their practices to avoid paying tax if it's convenient and easy which most Countries discovered I realise you have a particular issue with high value Property not being Taxed (which would be a Property Tax not a Wealth Tax) while you struggle to get on the ladder in the location you reside If you want to die on the cross for a Wealth Tax so be it, I've said all I've needed to say on the subject. Property Tax, Wealth tax, whatever you want to call it. It is just a label. It is about taxing the people who won’t even notice it to pay for public services the wider population desperately need improving. That coupled with closing loopholes would generate a lot of money. Some may leave. But I expect the majority of people worth over £10m wouldn’t permanently leave their home just because they have to pay an extra 1% of tax a year. I’d increase that percentage as wealth increases. Prohibiting being a landlord as a business and so preventing companies owning buy to let residential property would be an option I would explore. Housing should be seen as more of a need and less of a commodity. I would also tax air bnb/short term letting profits at much higher level regardless of overall income, and remove the ability to deduct expenses to reduce tax. They destroy local communities and make it so there are no rental properties for locals who need to rent a home close to their children’s school. In a ideal world a lot of your ideas on property have merit We don’t live in a a ideal world as thousands of landlords leave the property sector the number of houses for sale would in all likelihood crash the property market This would be political suicide nobody is likely to vote for a party that’s halved their inheritance or plunged them into negative equity
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Post by salopstick on Nov 23, 2023 11:08:02 GMT
the freeze in tax allowance is the single biggest thing they could do to improve finances for the average worker.
scandalous its still frozen
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 23, 2023 11:09:36 GMT
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Post by henry on Nov 23, 2023 11:17:14 GMT
the freeze in tax allowance is the single biggest thing they could do to improve finances for the average worker. scandalous its still frozen It would help a lot pensioners out aswell.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 23, 2023 11:41:13 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 23, 2023 12:07:19 GMT
That's just superb. It's so good, that he's almost turned it into parody!
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Post by essexstokey on Nov 23, 2023 12:21:28 GMT
Good page number lol
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Post by atillathehoneybee on Nov 23, 2023 12:26:14 GMT
In a lot of areas not voting Labour helps the Tories. Libs will be strong down south as they campaign you to death. A lot of pissed off tory voters will still vote tory to avoid Starmer. Come GE Time I still expect tories to lose big but I dont think it will be as bad as the polls suggest. cant see anything other than a Labour landslide. Reform will hand them loads of Tory seats by dividing the tory vote
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