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Post by lordb on Nov 13, 2023 13:27:43 GMT
Was Lord Carrington Foreign Secretary during the Falklands war?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 13, 2023 13:29:02 GMT
How long does it take to get someone into the House of Lords? Must be weeks or months, surely? Given that the ministerial code says that you have to be an MP or Lord to be a minister, has Cameron broken it already?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2023 13:29:47 GMT
Now is the time for those “left” of Starmer to sit down with them and coordinate that both ends break away. Then, at least the UK would have options. The “New Conservatives” have no idea what right wing is if they think that Braverman represents it. All she wants to do is meddle in BIG government.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 13, 2023 13:30:26 GMT
Ok everyone, who would have been your pick for foreign secretary? Aureliuspotter.. Who?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 13, 2023 13:33:28 GMT
Now is the time for those “left” of Starmer to sit down with them and coordinate that both ends break away. Then, at least the UK would have options. The “New Conservatives” have no idea what right wing is if they think that Braverman represents it. All she wants to do is meddle in BIG government. Options for what? For neither of them to get elected? That's what would happen under our ridiculous FPTP system. If we had PR, I'd agree with you, but I just can't see anyone being brave/stupid enough to commit electoral suicide by leaving the main parties and subsequently trying to get elected under a FPTP system against the main Tory or Labour parties (and possibly even LDs).
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Post by lordb on Nov 13, 2023 13:33:46 GMT
There could well be a General Election...sooner than you think. You reckon? June?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 13, 2023 13:34:59 GMT
You remember...Crapslinger, Slippyblunger, Aureliuspotter, that bloke you and Felonious kept telling me I was wrong about but who seems to keep getting banned time after time
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 13, 2023 13:37:54 GMT
There could well be a General Election...sooner than you think. You reckon? June? That's where my money is, too. Hunt (if he's still chancellor ) to announce some tax bribes this Autumn and then more in the Spring ahead of a June election. If the Tories want to maximise their vote they'll need to go to the country when the weather's decent - the silver tops are probably wavering a little in their support at the moment so any excuse like shitty weather will be enough to keep them wrapped up nice and warm (if they can afford their heating bill, of course).
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 13, 2023 13:39:53 GMT
How long does it take to get someone into the House of Lords? Must be weeks or months, surely? Given that the ministerial code says that you have to be an MP or Lord to be a minister, has Cameron broken it already? According to the Government's own website ... "It normally takes several weeks from the time a potential new member is announced, by the government or the House of Lords Appointments Commission, before their actual appointment. Before anyone becomes a member, a title has to be agreed and legal documents called Letters Patent and Writ of Summons must be prepared." But it seems that somehow, Cameron managed it seemingly during a GMTV ad break this morning!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2023 13:41:57 GMT
Now is the time for those “left” of Starmer to sit down with them and coordinate that both ends break away. Then, at least the UK would have options. The “New Conservatives” have no idea what right wing is if they think that Braverman represents it. All she wants to do is meddle in BIG government. Options for what? For neither of them to get elected? That's what would happen under our ridiculous FPTP system. If we had PR, I'd agree with you, but I just can't see anyone being brave/stupid enough to commit electoral suicide by leaving the main parties and subsequently trying to get elected under a FPTP system against the main Tory or Labour parties (and possibly even LDs). Has there been a time in your life when the entire country (regardless of political viewpoint) seemed so disinterested in politics? Typically, one party splinters and the minor party loses out. When have the two extremes ever sat down and tried to pull the rug out? I imagine that a lot of people on this thread would consider voting for Corbyn if he pulled away. I imagine a lot of others would vote for Braverman if she ran her expected campaign of making Britain White Again. I think that it would present a completely different situation to what has come before.
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Post by elystokie on Nov 13, 2023 13:42:08 GMT
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Post by gawa on Nov 13, 2023 13:45:04 GMT
Ok everyone, who would have been your pick for foreign secretary? Michael Fabricant
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Nov 13, 2023 13:47:31 GMT
I think it's becoming apparent that Sunak has decided that the only chance (if any) that he's got in a GE, is to drop the right of the party. Braverman isn’t right wing. She’s just an asshole. She believed in big government more than anyone. Look at how much she wanted to control the police. That’s not right wing. You can't get a better definition of a right wing party than one that wants to control the police. Supporting an independent police force is essentially a centre ground liberal principle shared by both mainstream Tory and Labour. It's only parties of the extreme right and left who want to control the police. Which just shows how far right the Tories have travelled.
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Post by toppercorner on Nov 13, 2023 13:49:54 GMT
this line is always trotted out ... it was ok when people were voting for boris then? not their local mp? you can't have it both ways. but not even the tory party members voted for rishi, so yes, he is totally unelected. “it was ok when people were voting for boris then? not their local mp? you can't have it both ways.” Yes, because they weren’t. They were hoping to vote for Boris but actually just voting for their local MP. Perhaps civics classes need to go back into schools (not a slight at you there, I just mean in general). i know exactly how it works. But depending on how badly the tories have fucked up yet again, it's either they're voting for their local mp, or they're voting for someone they've seen on tv.
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Post by gawa on Nov 13, 2023 13:49:56 GMT
On a serious note Tobias Ellwood from the commons or if we are including those from the Lords then Sayeeda Warsi would also have been a decent choice.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 13, 2023 13:50:21 GMT
Ok everyone, who would have been your pick for foreign secretary? Michael Fabricant That did make me chuckle Boris had a (rather poor) go at foreign secretary too. The foreigners will think we only appoint people with bizarre hairdos...mind you, Fabricant's got a bit of catching up to do...
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Post by potteringermany on Nov 13, 2023 14:08:13 GMT
Absolutely desperate with a party devoid of talented in elected officials. That’s the only reason to call on Cameron. True story: my wife once made Cameron pick up dog shit. He did it without his butler (or security staff). Well done your wife!! Just want to kow, did it come from his dog or was it just radomly lying there?
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Post by phileetin on Nov 13, 2023 14:09:26 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 13, 2023 14:10:49 GMT
Options for what? For neither of them to get elected? That's what would happen under our ridiculous FPTP system. If we had PR, I'd agree with you, but I just can't see anyone being brave/stupid enough to commit electoral suicide by leaving the main parties and subsequently trying to get elected under a FPTP system against the main Tory or Labour parties (and possibly even LDs). Has there been a time in your life when the entire country (regardless of political viewpoint) seemed so disinterested in politics? Typically, one party splinters and the minor party loses out. When have the two extremes ever sat down and tried to pull the rug out? I imagine that a lot of people on this thread would consider voting for Corbyn if he pulled away. I imagine a lot of others would vote for Braverman if she ran her expected campaign of making Britain White Again. I think that it would present a completely different situation to what has come before. I'm not sure the entire country is any more disinterested in politics than it usually is, which is quite a lot anyway. Desperate for change, yes, desperate to get shot of the current government, also yes. Desperate for Starmer and his Labour party? Probably not, but willing to give them a chance if it means getting rid of the current mess? Yes, I'd say so. A case of let's see what the only genuine alternative can do when in power. You need to exercise some caution about the claims of disinterest - a lot of them will be from Conservative voters who recognise that their own preferred option is doing appallingly badly so they try to make out that "they're all as bad as each other" as some kind of 'draw'. Plus you have to remember that England is essentially a mainly Conservative country so any alternative government is nearly always met with mild apathy. And there's a bit of a false start going on currently, where a lot of people are quite keen to see an election held and to see where the differences lie between the two parties but because there is no date set, both are being pretty cagey about their positions. It's always like this once you get to within 12 months or so of an election and that feeds into people's frustration but, as has been said many times, it's a daft party which reveals all its policies well in advance of an election, thereby giving the opposition time to pull them apart or, if they're appealing, to steal elements of them!
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 13, 2023 14:23:26 GMT
There could well be a General Election...sooner than you think. You reckon? June? Depends on Braverman. Apparently she has enough support from the Neocons to force a challenge. Let's face it she's batshit crazy enough to do it.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 13, 2023 14:25:53 GMT
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 13, 2023 14:27:00 GMT
You remember...Crapslinger, Slippyblunger, Aureliuspotter, that bloke you and Felonious kept telling me I was wrong about but who seems to keep getting banned time after time You were wrong. But that’s not important
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Post by lordb on Nov 13, 2023 14:29:06 GMT
Depends on Braverman. Apparently she has enough support from the Neocons to force a challenge. Let's face it she's batshit crazy enough to do it. yes she is imho she has no chance of becoming leader of the Tory party e4ither now or after the GE
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Post by GrahamHyde on Nov 13, 2023 14:36:40 GMT
What a shitshow.
Is David Cameron even an elected MP?
I didn't think you could be a part of the cabinet if you weren't elected.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Nov 13, 2023 14:50:46 GMT
Options for what? For neither of them to get elected? That's what would happen under our ridiculous FPTP system. If we had PR, I'd agree with you, but I just can't see anyone being brave/stupid enough to commit electoral suicide by leaving the main parties and subsequently trying to get elected under a FPTP system against the main Tory or Labour parties (and possibly even LDs). Has there been a time in your life when the entire country (regardless of political viewpoint) seemed so disinterested in politics? Typically, one party splinters and the minor party loses out. When have the two extremes ever sat down and tried to pull the rug out? I imagine that a lot of people on this thread would consider voting for Corbyn if he pulled away. I imagine a lot of others would vote for Braverman if she ran her expected campaign of making Britain White Again. I think that it would present a completely different situation to what has come before. It's impossible for the smaller parties to have a significant impact under FPTP. Things will only change with the introduction of PR. Part of the reason for apathy is that people are presented with a false choice of Labour or Tory neither of which properly represent most people's views. Effectively millions of people are disenfranchised because if you aren't in a marginal constituency your vote is worthless unless you vote for the dominant party. If PR were introduced (and I hope it does) not only will those supporting the smaller parties get a voice but I think it would precipitate a split in the Tory and Labour parties with the Labour left breaking away to create a genuinely socialist party of the left and the Tory right breaking away to form a party of the hard right - either that or merge with Reform. I think that would actually benefit The Tory and Labour parties as it get rid of the in fighting that has had such a detrimental effect on government and it would benefit the electorate because they are more likely to find a political home. It would also mean political parties could be more honest - it's obvious that both the Tory's and Labour are lying to sections of the electorate to con them into voting for them. The socially conservative working class is particularly badly served - neither party represents them and both are bullshitting them purely on the basis of getting their vote and once in will just ignore them (levelling up anyone?). Our current political system isn't fit for purpose - the views of the electorate are far too diverse to be represented by a two party system. Parliament should facilitate a debate where the diversity of views get aired and a compromise reached. As it stands political debate is stifled and it's just the views of the faction currently holding the reins of either the Labour or Tory party that has any say. That isn't the basis for anyone to have a healthy interest in politics. Apathy just facilitates the tiny minority in either if the two main parties who have any chance of actually gaining power.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Nov 13, 2023 14:52:59 GMT
What a shitshow. Is David Cameron even an elected MP? I didn't think you could be a part of the cabinet if you weren't elected. The government of the day can appointment unelected members of the House of Lords as a minister. You didn't think we lived in a democracy did you?
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Post by phileetin on Nov 13, 2023 14:58:14 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 13, 2023 15:00:57 GMT
Absolutely desperate with a party devoid of talented in elected officials. That’s the only reason to call on Cameron. True story: my wife once made Cameron pick up dog shit. He did it without his butler (or security staff). Well done your wife!! Just want to kow, did it come from his dog or was it just radomly lying there? It came from dogs he was with (not his dogs). He said at the time “I’m not much of a dog person” and “this one is a prolific crapper”.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 13, 2023 15:02:39 GMT
On a serious note Tobias Ellwood from the commons or if we are including those from the Lords then Sayeeda Warsi would also have been a decent choice. Two of the last sane Tories still around
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 13, 2023 15:11:00 GMT
I think all there is left to do now is laugh.
Imagine being PM, having 350 to pick from and not a single one is up to it. Probably the most honest admission Sunak has come out with in fairness.
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