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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2023 23:33:12 GMT
Why on earth would you and the others love it? You want catastrophe in this country? Bizarre logic to me Another leadership challenge would utterly destroy the tory vote. Then, if Braverman won, her disgusting hateful politics would fail against lib dem, labour and snp votes, and it would hopefully see an end to the horrible right wing populism your wet dream Farage has led and infected into the tory party and British politics. For a massive failure at the ballot box, Farage sure has a powerful reach. Extraordinary really for an unelected individual. He is exactly what he hates in Brussels! Alternatively, the British public remain as generally disinterested in politics as ever and continue to vote along historic party lines, the further right become more invested and Suella squeezes into politics in a way not dissimilar to Trump in 2016.
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Post by wannabee on Nov 8, 2023 1:04:00 GMT
Have courage in your convictions young man! If he wows everyone with his jungle exploits the odds on him to be London Mayor or PM will tumble! You don't want to be missing out on profit 😃 Big Nige does what he wants, spies an opportunity and grabs it. Those Brexit debates on telly were owned by him and I think that was a big part in getting Brexit over the line. He’s got the talk, you have to give him that. And as for 8 times and all that, I think his Brexit achievement trumps(excuse the pun) all that You do Nige a disservice it was only 7 failures or rejections if you prefer The closest he got was when he nevertheless was soundly beaten by a fellow UKIPer turned Conservative in South Thanet Nige rivals Edward Lord Such (spoken aside) Monster Raving Looney Party, in lack of Electoral Success, although I can see the similarities
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Post by thisisouryear on Nov 8, 2023 7:35:48 GMT
Another leadership challenge would utterly destroy the tory vote. Then, if Braverman won, her disgusting hateful politics would fail against lib dem, labour and snp votes, and it would hopefully see an end to the horrible right wing populism your wet dream Farage has led and infected into the tory party and British politics. For a massive failure at the ballot box, Farage sure has a powerful reach. Extraordinary really for an unelected individual. He is exactly what he hates in Brussels! A very clever man I’m sure you’ll agree. Could do with someone like him leading the country instead of the thick as shit fuckers who do currently Farage would be no different than the current government, it would be full of sleeze and corruption.
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Post by Veritas on Nov 8, 2023 7:58:46 GMT
Big Nige does what he wants, spies an opportunity and grabs it. Those Brexit debates on telly were owned by him and I think that was a big part in getting Brexit over the line. He’s got the talk, you have to give him that. And as for 8 times and all that, I think his Brexit achievement trumps(excuse the pun) all that You do Nige a disservice it was only 7 failures or rejections if you prefer The closest he got was when he nevertheless was soundly beaten by a fellow UKIPer turned Conservative in South Thanet Nige rivals Edward Lord Such (spoken aside) Monster Raving Looney Party, in lack of Electoral Success, although I can see the similarities Unfortunately Farage was instrumental in winning the only vote he really cared about. As much as Johnson likes to think it was him wot won it without years of Farage a Brexit vote would never have happened.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 8, 2023 9:03:42 GMT
A very clever man I’m sure you’ll agree. Could do with someone like him leading the country instead of the thick as shit fuckers who do currently Farage would be no different than the current government, it would be full of sleeze and corruption. NF is primarily to blame for the absolute mess this country is in right now.
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Post by thisisouryear on Nov 8, 2023 11:09:07 GMT
Farage would be no different than the current government, it would be full of sleeze and corruption. NF is primarily to blame for the absolute mess this country is in right now. He's been part of the problem but the majority of the discontent came from 9/11 and what happened next. The terror attacks that followed have led to a lack of trust in the people coming here from other countries and you can't blame people for having concerns about who is coming here. Unfortunately they have become a political football and the likes of Farage and the Tories have cashed in on it. Brexit might not have even come about if it weren't for the wars and the immigration that followed from those wars after 9/11. Blair and Cameron are as much if not more of the cause for where we are now than Farage in my opinion. Either way it was a difficult position to be in for Blair and Cameron, who knows how far the US would have gone after the attack had we not been there for support. Right now they seem to be backing Israel to do whatever they want so maybe our voice kept the US from going over the top, who knows. So for me it all stems from 9/11 and what happened after.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 8, 2023 15:29:19 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 8, 2023 17:45:57 GMT
NF is primarily to blame for the absolute mess this country is in right now. He's been part of the problem but the majority of the discontent came from 9/11 and what happened next. The terror attacks that followed have led to a lack of trust in the people coming here from other countries and you can't blame people for having concerns about who is coming here. Unfortunately they have become a political football and the likes of Farage and the Tories have cashed in on it. Brexit might not have even come about if it weren't for the wars and the immigration that followed from those wars after 9/11. Blair and Cameron are as much if not more of the cause for where we are now than Farage in my opinion. Either way it was a difficult position to be in for Blair and Cameron, who knows how far the US would have gone after the attack had we not been there for support. Right now they seem to be backing Israel to do whatever they want so maybe our voice kept the US from going over the top, who knows. So for me it all stems from 9/11 and what happened after. Do you think so? I'm not so sure. It's certainly the case that the "war on terror" led to a number of foreign policy blunders by Bush and Blair but I'm not really sure they had much impact at all at home, where there was a steady improvement in things like education and the health service at that time. I think you can lay the blame for Brexit fairly squarely at the door of the casino bankers who brought about the financial crisis in 07/08. That led to a global recession. The UK, as a global financial centre, perhaps even the global financial centre at the time, suffered particularly badly, having to bail out numerous banks and enduing a sharp and deep recession that blew a large hole in our public debt and deficit figures which, up to that point, had been perfectly manageable. In response, the Tory/LD coalition decided on a period of austerity. Services declined, people got worse off, living standards fell, those hard won improvements in education and healthcare fell away. People, as they always are in times of recession/financial hardship, were pissed off and wanted to blame someone. In the midst of this Cameron holds the EU referendum. I genuinely think the referendum was not really about Europe for millions of those who voted Leave, it was about giving Cameron's government a kicking for the state of the country and individuals' personal finances at the time. Farage's brand of political populism exploited financial hardship, as populism always does. It appealed to the lowest common denominator, as it always does. So, immigrants were the problem, those foreigners in the EU were the problem, when we leave food will be cheaper , we'll have more money for the NHS etc , we'll have less red tape , we'll have better protections for workers' rights and the environment etc etc. Farage's skill, in direct contrast to Cameron's detached stupidity, was to recognise both that the timing was absolutely right for the best chance of the UK leaving, by energising a Leave protest vote that was, in large part, more against all the domestic shit that was happening ("give Cameron's govt a kicking") than the EU itself, and to identify and maximise the levers that appeal to people's base instincts whenever financial hardship hits: foreigners, immigrants etc. I suspect the financial crash is much more relevant to all the Brexit related shite the country is suffering from than 9/11.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 8, 2023 17:49:26 GMT
He's been part of the problem but the majority of the discontent came from 9/11 and what happened next. The terror attacks that followed have led to a lack of trust in the people coming here from other countries and you can't blame people for having concerns about who is coming here. Unfortunately they have become a political football and the likes of Farage and the Tories have cashed in on it. Brexit might not have even come about if it weren't for the wars and the immigration that followed from those wars after 9/11. Blair and Cameron are as much if not more of the cause for where we are now than Farage in my opinion. Either way it was a difficult position to be in for Blair and Cameron, who knows how far the US would have gone after the attack had we not been there for support. Right now they seem to be backing Israel to do whatever they want so maybe our voice kept the US from going over the top, who knows. So for me it all stems from 9/11 and what happened after. Do you think so? I'm not so sure. It's certainly the case that the "war on terror" led to a number of foreign policy blunders by Bush and Blair but I'm not really sure they had much impact at all at home, where there was a steady improvement in things like education and the health service at that time. I think you can lay the blame for Brexit fairly squarely at the door of the casino bankers who brought about the financial crisis in 07/08. That led to a global recession. The UK, as a global financial centre, perhaps even the global financial centre at the time, suffered particularly badly, having to bail out numerous banks and enduing a sharp and deep recession that blew a large hole in our public debt and deficit figures which, up to that point, had been perfectly manageable. In response, the Tory/LD coalition signed up to a period of austerity. Services declined, people got worse off, living standards fell, those hard won improvements in education and healthcare fell away. People, as they always are in times of recession/financial hardship, were pissed off and wanted to blame someone. In the midst of this Cameron holds the EU referendum. I genuinely think the referendum was not really about Europe for millions of those who voted Leave, it was about giving Cameron's government a kicking for the state of the country and individuals' personal finances at the time. Farage's brand of political populism exploited financial hardship, as populism always does. It appealed to the lowest common denominator, as it always does. So, immigrants were the problem, those foreigners in the EU were the problem, when we leave food will be cheaper , we'll have more money for the NHS etc , we'll have less red tape , we'll have better protections for workers' rights and the environment  etc etc. Farage's skill, in direction contrast to Cameron's detached stupidity, was to recognise both that the timing was absolutely right for the best chance of the UK leaving, by energising a Leave protest vote that was, in large part, more against all the domestic shit that was happening ("give Cameron's govt a kicking") than the EU itself, and to identify and maximise the levers that appeal to people's base instincts whenever financial hardship hits: foreigners, immigrants etc. I suspect the financial crash is much more relevant to all the Brexit related shite the country is suffering from than 9/11. Very good post. I am hoping for a similar protest vote against the tories at the next election for the damage caused to this country.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 8, 2023 17:53:41 GMT
Another leadership challenge would utterly destroy the tory vote. Then, if Braverman won, her disgusting hateful politics would fail against lib dem, labour and snp votes, and it would hopefully see an end to the horrible right wing populism your wet dream Farage has led and infected into the tory party and British politics. For a massive failure at the ballot box, Farage sure has a powerful reach. Extraordinary really for an unelected individual. He is exactly what he hates in Brussels! A very clever man I’m sure you’ll agree. Could do with someone like him leading the country instead of the thick as shit fuckers who do currently He is very clever. He convinced the masses that leaving the EU would benefit them which turned out to be a combination lie. He has never done anything to benefit anyone other than himself. An elite millionaire and up there with Johnson as one of the worst people this country has ever known. So damaging to others for his own benefit. A truly awful man.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 8, 2023 17:56:10 GMT
A very clever man I’m sure you’ll agree. Could do with someone like him leading the country instead of the thick as shit fuckers who do currently He is very clever. He convinced the masses that leaving the EU would benefit them which turned out to be a combination lie. He has never done anything to benefit anyone other than himself. An elite millionaire and up there with Johnson as one of the worst people this country has ever known. So damaging to others for his own benefit. A truly awful man. Now you’re just being silly
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 8, 2023 17:58:55 GMT
He is very clever. He convinced the masses that leaving the EU would benefit them which turned out to be a combination lie. He has never done anything to benefit anyone other than himself. An elite millionaire and up there with Johnson as one of the worst people this country has ever known. So damaging to others for his own benefit. A truly awful man. Now you’re just being silly I’m sure at some point you’ll elaborate
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 8, 2023 18:02:37 GMT
Now you’re just being silly I’m sure at some point you’ll elaborate Comparing the great man to Boris Johnson
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 8, 2023 18:21:39 GMT
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Post by thisisouryear on Nov 8, 2023 18:54:44 GMT
He's been part of the problem but the majority of the discontent came from 9/11 and what happened next. The terror attacks that followed have led to a lack of trust in the people coming here from other countries and you can't blame people for having concerns about who is coming here. Unfortunately they have become a political football and the likes of Farage and the Tories have cashed in on it. Brexit might not have even come about if it weren't for the wars and the immigration that followed from those wars after 9/11. Blair and Cameron are as much if not more of the cause for where we are now than Farage in my opinion. Either way it was a difficult position to be in for Blair and Cameron, who knows how far the US would have gone after the attack had we not been there for support. Right now they seem to be backing Israel to do whatever they want so maybe our voice kept the US from going over the top, who knows. So for me it all stems from 9/11 and what happened after. Do you think so? I'm not so sure. It's certainly the case that the "war on terror" led to a number of foreign policy blunders by Bush and Blair but I'm not really sure they had much impact at all at home, where there was a steady improvement in things like education and the health service at that time. I think you can lay the blame for Brexit fairly squarely at the door of the casino bankers who brought about the financial crisis in 07/08. That led to a global recession. The UK, as a global financial centre, perhaps even the global financial centre at the time, suffered particularly badly, having to bail out numerous banks and enduing a sharp and deep recession that blew a large hole in our public debt and deficit figures which, up to that point, had been perfectly manageable. In response, the Tory/LD coalition decided on a period of austerity. Services declined, people got worse off, living standards fell, those hard won improvements in education and healthcare fell away. People, as they always are in times of recession/financial hardship, were pissed off and wanted to blame someone. In the midst of this Cameron holds the EU referendum. I genuinely think the referendum was not really about Europe for millions of those who voted Leave, it was about giving Cameron's government a kicking for the state of the country and individuals' personal finances at the time. Farage's brand of political populism exploited financial hardship, as populism always does. It appealed to the lowest common denominator, as it always does. So, immigrants were the problem, those foreigners in the EU were the problem, when we leave food will be cheaper , we'll have more money for the NHS etc , we'll have less red tape , we'll have better protections for workers' rights and the environment  etc etc. Farage's skill, in direct contrast to Cameron's detached stupidity, was to recognise both that the timing was absolutely right for the best chance of the UK leaving, by energising a Leave protest vote that was, in large part, more against all the domestic shit that was happening ("give Cameron's govt a kicking") than the EU itself, and to identify and maximise the levers that appeal to people's base instincts whenever financial hardship hits: foreigners, immigrants etc. I suspect the financial crash is much more relevant to all the Brexit related shite the country is suffering from than 9/11. No doubt the crash would have had some impact but uncontrolled immigration, area's losing their identity and apparently not being able to make our own rules was the biggest driver for Brexit. As someone who works in the building trade people are quite openly against immigration and foreigners in general and it played a huge part in their reasons for voting leave and being in control of our own borders and laws. This country was going downhill long before the crash where there seemed to be no investment anywhere, area's being run down and losing businesses which were their USP and replaced with nothing. It just looked like we were falling behind whilst other countries were excelling despite us being the country that has a long history of being at the front of new technologies. The crash just compounded an issue that was already there, it just extended the period with no investment in towns and cities and with a future which looked more of the same. Spending billions on wars took away a lot of investment too. Things were so shit for so long investment wise many would have thought it couldn't get much worse than it was so it was worth the risk leaving. Every other week the Tories were blaming the EU for this that and the other and people were fed up with them supposedly forcing laws on us which were holding us back from being the country we should be. People were generally fed up of everything really and Brexit offered an opportunity for a huge kick up the arse. The terror attacks gave a huge boost to those wanting to control our own borders and the message was we could only do that outside the EU. The terror attacks just made people want rid of foreigners more and accelerated the will to leave. We don't make anything anymore is also something I have heard many many times over the years. This is my experience growing up through it, yours might be different but unless I have missed something this was the general feeling in my line of work through the years.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 8, 2023 19:09:24 GMT
I’m sure at some point you’ll elaborate Comparing the great man to Boris Johnson Peas in a pod those two are.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 8, 2023 19:11:15 GMT
Comparing the great man to Boris Johnson Peas in a pod those two are. Get off with ya
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Post by gawa on Nov 8, 2023 20:00:53 GMT
Don't forget lads. Pulling Pints with Nigel at 7pm tomorrow night. Hope to see you all tuning in.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 8, 2023 20:04:46 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 8, 2023 20:10:04 GMT
He's been part of the problem but the majority of the discontent came from 9/11 and what happened next. The terror attacks that followed have led to a lack of trust in the people coming here from other countries and you can't blame people for having concerns about who is coming here. Unfortunately they have become a political football and the likes of Farage and the Tories have cashed in on it. Brexit might not have even come about if it weren't for the wars and the immigration that followed from those wars after 9/11. Blair and Cameron are as much if not more of the cause for where we are now than Farage in my opinion. Either way it was a difficult position to be in for Blair and Cameron, who knows how far the US would have gone after the attack had we not been there for support. Right now they seem to be backing Israel to do whatever they want so maybe our voice kept the US from going over the top, who knows. So for me it all stems from 9/11 and what happened after. Do you think so? I'm not so sure. It's certainly the case that the "war on terror" led to a number of foreign policy blunders by Bush and Blair but I'm not really sure they had much impact at all at home, where there was a steady improvement in things like education and the health service at that time. I think you can lay the blame for Brexit fairly squarely at the door of the casino bankers who brought about the financial crisis in 07/08. That led to a global recession. The UK, as a global financial centre, perhaps even the global financial centre at the time, suffered particularly badly, having to bail out numerous banks and enduing a sharp and deep recession that blew a large hole in our public debt and deficit figures which, up to that point, had been perfectly manageable. In response, the Tory/LD coalition decided on a period of austerity. Services declined, people got worse off, living standards fell, those hard won improvements in education and healthcare fell away. People, as they always are in times of recession/financial hardship, were pissed off and wanted to blame someone. In the midst of this Cameron holds the EU referendum. I genuinely think the referendum was not really about Europe for millions of those who voted Leave, it was about giving Cameron's government a kicking for the state of the country and individuals' personal finances at the time. Farage's brand of political populism exploited financial hardship, as populism always does. It appealed to the lowest common denominator, as it always does. So, immigrants were the problem, those foreigners in the EU were the problem, when we leave food will be cheaper , we'll have more money for the NHS etc , we'll have less red tape , we'll have better protections for workers' rights and the environment etc etc. Farage's skill, in direct contrast to Cameron's detached stupidity, was to recognise both that the timing was absolutely right for the best chance of the UK leaving, by energising a Leave protest vote that was, in large part, more against all the domestic shit that was happening ("give Cameron's govt a kicking") than the EU itself, and to identify and maximise the levers that appeal to people's base instincts whenever financial hardship hits: foreigners, immigrants etc. I suspect the financial crash is much more relevant to all the Brexit related shite the country is suffering from than 9/11. Nice theory but flawed. If the British public wanted to give the Tory government " a kicking" , why was May returned to power? May failed to deliver Brexit and the Tories installed Johnson. Johnson went to the people with a promise to "Get Brexit done" and had a resounding victory, many traditional Labour areas like North Staffs voting Tory. Even Blair's former constituency Sedgefield voted Tory. The people wanted out of the EU, accept it. The working class of the country ( at least England and Wales) were sick of the damage membership of the EU had done, accept it. The UK is not going back, accept it. Starmer says he will make Brexit work, it is working, the UK had the largest growth in the G7 in 2021, and 2022, not the recession predicted by those opposed to Brexit.
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Post by gawa on Nov 8, 2023 20:16:13 GMT
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 8, 2023 20:16:15 GMT
Don't forget lads. Pulling Pints with Nigel at 7pm tomorrow night. Hope to see you all tuning in. That’s Talking Pints with Big Nige in the GB News pub. Be great once again to see him tackle the burning issues of the day and scrutinising the current government’s ineptitude with all things topical. Like you say, do not miss it!😉
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 8, 2023 20:17:38 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 8, 2023 20:27:58 GMT
Do you think so? I'm not so sure. It's certainly the case that the "war on terror" led to a number of foreign policy blunders by Bush and Blair but I'm not really sure they had much impact at all at home, where there was a steady improvement in things like education and the health service at that time. I think you can lay the blame for Brexit fairly squarely at the door of the casino bankers who brought about the financial crisis in 07/08. That led to a global recession. The UK, as a global financial centre, perhaps even the global financial centre at the time, suffered particularly badly, having to bail out numerous banks and enduing a sharp and deep recession that blew a large hole in our public debt and deficit figures which, up to that point, had been perfectly manageable. In response, the Tory/LD coalition decided on a period of austerity. Services declined, people got worse off, living standards fell, those hard won improvements in education and healthcare fell away. People, as they always are in times of recession/financial hardship, were pissed off and wanted to blame someone. In the midst of this Cameron holds the EU referendum. I genuinely think the referendum was not really about Europe for millions of those who voted Leave, it was about giving Cameron's government a kicking for the state of the country and individuals' personal finances at the time. Farage's brand of political populism exploited financial hardship, as populism always does. It appealed to the lowest common denominator, as it always does. So, immigrants were the problem, those foreigners in the EU were the problem, when we leave food will be cheaper , we'll have more money for the NHS etc , we'll have less red tape , we'll have better protections for workers' rights and the environment  etc etc. Farage's skill, in direct contrast to Cameron's detached stupidity, was to recognise both that the timing was absolutely right for the best chance of the UK leaving, by energising a Leave protest vote that was, in large part, more against all the domestic shit that was happening ("give Cameron's govt a kicking") than the EU itself, and to identify and maximise the levers that appeal to people's base instincts whenever financial hardship hits: foreigners, immigrants etc. I suspect the financial crash is much more relevant to all the Brexit related shite the country is suffering from than 9/11. Nice theory but flawed. If the British public wanted to give the Tory government " a kicking" , why was May returned to power? May failed to deliver Brexit and the Tories installed Johnson. Johnson went to the people with a promise to "Get Brexit done" and had a resounding victory, many traditional Labour areas like North Staffs voting Tory. Even Blair's former constituency Sedgefield voted Tory. The people wanted out of the EU, accept it. The working class of the country ( at least England and Wales) were sick of the damage membership of the EU had done, accept it. The UK is not going back, accept it. Starmer says he will make Brexit work, it is working, the UK had the largest growth in the G7 in 2021, and 2022, not the recession predicted by those opposed to Brexit. Nah, the referendum vote was the kicking. Cameron campaigned for Remain. Lost. Resigned. Electorate: job done, move on. Besides, May was PM of a hung parliament. It was only a billion pound bribe to the Creationist headbanger nutjobs in the DUP that kept her tawdry administration in power. You stick to your delusions, Coke, which include Brexit, Boris Johnson and HS2 as good ideas. It's not a good record so far 😄
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 8, 2023 20:30:14 GMT
Do you think so? I'm not so sure. It's certainly the case that the "war on terror" led to a number of foreign policy blunders by Bush and Blair but I'm not really sure they had much impact at all at home, where there was a steady improvement in things like education and the health service at that time. I think you can lay the blame for Brexit fairly squarely at the door of the casino bankers who brought about the financial crisis in 07/08. That led to a global recession. The UK, as a global financial centre, perhaps even the global financial centre at the time, suffered particularly badly, having to bail out numerous banks and enduing a sharp and deep recession that blew a large hole in our public debt and deficit figures which, up to that point, had been perfectly manageable. In response, the Tory/LD coalition decided on a period of austerity. Services declined, people got worse off, living standards fell, those hard won improvements in education and healthcare fell away. People, as they always are in times of recession/financial hardship, were pissed off and wanted to blame someone. In the midst of this Cameron holds the EU referendum. I genuinely think the referendum was not really about Europe for millions of those who voted Leave, it was about giving Cameron's government a kicking for the state of the country and individuals' personal finances at the time. Farage's brand of political populism exploited financial hardship, as populism always does. It appealed to the lowest common denominator, as it always does. So, immigrants were the problem, those foreigners in the EU were the problem, when we leave food will be cheaper , we'll have more money for the NHS etc , we'll have less red tape , we'll have better protections for workers' rights and the environment etc etc. Farage's skill, in direct contrast to Cameron's detached stupidity, was to recognise both that the timing was absolutely right for the best chance of the UK leaving, by energising a Leave protest vote that was, in large part, more against all the domestic shit that was happening ("give Cameron's govt a kicking") than the EU itself, and to identify and maximise the levers that appeal to people's base instincts whenever financial hardship hits: foreigners, immigrants etc. I suspect the financial crash is much more relevant to all the Brexit related shite the country is suffering from than 9/11. Nice theory but flawed. If the British public wanted to give the Tory government " a kicking" , why was May returned to power? May failed to deliver Brexit and the Tories installed Johnson. Johnson went to the people with a promise to "Get Brexit done" and had a resounding victory, many traditional Labour areas like North Staffs voting Tory. Even Blair's former constituency Sedgefield voted Tory. The people wanted out of the EU, accept it. The working class of the country ( at least England and Wales) were sick of the damage membership of the EU had done, accept it. The UK is not going back, accept it. Starmer says he will make Brexit work, it is working, the UK had the largest growth in the G7 in 2021, and 2022, not the recession predicted by those opposed to Brexit. You OK?
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Nov 8, 2023 20:30:26 GMT
Do you think so? I'm not so sure. It's certainly the case that the "war on terror" led to a number of foreign policy blunders by Bush and Blair but I'm not really sure they had much impact at all at home, where there was a steady improvement in things like education and the health service at that time. I think you can lay the blame for Brexit fairly squarely at the door of the casino bankers who brought about the financial crisis in 07/08. That led to a global recession. The UK, as a global financial centre, perhaps even the global financial centre at the time, suffered particularly badly, having to bail out numerous banks and enduing a sharp and deep recession that blew a large hole in our public debt and deficit figures which, up to that point, had been perfectly manageable. In response, the Tory/LD coalition decided on a period of austerity. Services declined, people got worse off, living standards fell, those hard won improvements in education and healthcare fell away. People, as they always are in times of recession/financial hardship, were pissed off and wanted to blame someone. In the midst of this Cameron holds the EU referendum. I genuinely think the referendum was not really about Europe for millions of those who voted Leave, it was about giving Cameron's government a kicking for the state of the country and individuals' personal finances at the time. Farage's brand of political populism exploited financial hardship, as populism always does. It appealed to the lowest common denominator, as it always does. So, immigrants were the problem, those foreigners in the EU were the problem, when we leave food will be cheaper , we'll have more money for the NHS etc , we'll have less red tape , we'll have better protections for workers' rights and the environment etc etc. Farage's skill, in direct contrast to Cameron's detached stupidity, was to recognise both that the timing was absolutely right for the best chance of the UK leaving, by energising a Leave protest vote that was, in large part, more against all the domestic shit that was happening ("give Cameron's govt a kicking") than the EU itself, and to identify and maximise the levers that appeal to people's base instincts whenever financial hardship hits: foreigners, immigrants etc. I suspect the financial crash is much more relevant to all the Brexit related shite the country is suffering from than 9/11. Nice theory but flawed. If the British public wanted to give the Tory government " a kicking" , why was May returned to power? May failed to deliver Brexit and the Tories installed Johnson. Johnson went to the people with a promise to "Get Brexit done" and had a resounding victory, many traditional Labour areas like North Staffs voting Tory. Even Blair's former constituency Sedgefield voted Tory. The people wanted out of the EU, accept it. The working class of the country ( at least England and Wales) were sick of the damage membership of the EU had done, accept it. The UK is not going back, accept it. Starmer says he will make Brexit work, it is working, the UK had the largest growth in the G7 in 2021, and 2022, not the recession predicted by those opposed to Brexit. The working class were deceived into thinking the EU was the reason things weren't working. Many now recognise that and realise Brexit was the greatest lie fed to the populace in generations. Even the pro-Brexit government recognises Brexit has failed, that's why it's trying to undo the damage done. I think it's just your good self and Peter Bone who think it's been a success.
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Post by wannabee on Nov 8, 2023 20:39:48 GMT
Do you think so? I'm not so sure. It's certainly the case that the "war on terror" led to a number of foreign policy blunders by Bush and Blair but I'm not really sure they had much impact at all at home, where there was a steady improvement in things like education and the health service at that time. I think you can lay the blame for Brexit fairly squarely at the door of the casino bankers who brought about the financial crisis in 07/08. That led to a global recession. The UK, as a global financial centre, perhaps even the global financial centre at the time, suffered particularly badly, having to bail out numerous banks and enduing a sharp and deep recession that blew a large hole in our public debt and deficit figures which, up to that point, had been perfectly manageable. In response, the Tory/LD coalition decided on a period of austerity. Services declined, people got worse off, living standards fell, those hard won improvements in education and healthcare fell away. People, as they always are in times of recession/financial hardship, were pissed off and wanted to blame someone. In the midst of this Cameron holds the EU referendum. I genuinely think the referendum was not really about Europe for millions of those who voted Leave, it was about giving Cameron's government a kicking for the state of the country and individuals' personal finances at the time. Farage's brand of political populism exploited financial hardship, as populism always does. It appealed to the lowest common denominator, as it always does. So, immigrants were the problem, those foreigners in the EU were the problem, when we leave food will be cheaper , we'll have more money for the NHS etc , we'll have less red tape , we'll have better protections for workers' rights and the environment etc etc. Farage's skill, in direct contrast to Cameron's detached stupidity, was to recognise both that the timing was absolutely right for the best chance of the UK leaving, by energising a Leave protest vote that was, in large part, more against all the domestic shit that was happening ("give Cameron's govt a kicking") than the EU itself, and to identify and maximise the levers that appeal to people's base instincts whenever financial hardship hits: foreigners, immigrants etc. I suspect the financial crash is much more relevant to all the Brexit related shite the country is suffering from than 9/11. No doubt the crash would have had some impact but uncontrolled immigration, area's losing their identity and apparently not being able to make our own rules was the biggest driver for Brexit. As someone who works in the building trade people are quite openly against immigration and foreigners in general and it played a huge part in their reasons for voting leave and being in control of our own borders and laws. This country was going downhill long before the crash where there seemed to be no investment anywhere, area's being run down and losing businesses which were their USP and replaced with nothing. It just looked like we were falling behind whilst other countries were excelling despite us being the country that has a long history of being at the front of new technologies. The crash just compounded an issue that was already there, it just extended the period with no investment in towns and cities and with a future which looked more of the same. Spending billions on wars took away a lot of investment too. Things were so shit for so long investment wise many would have thought it couldn't get much worse than it was so it was worth the risk leaving. Every other week the Tories were blaming the EU for this that and the other and people were fed up with them supposedly forcing laws on us which were holding us back from being the country we should be. People were generally fed up of everything really and Brexit offered an opportunity for a huge kick up the arse. The terror attacks gave a huge boost to those wanting to control our own borders and the message was we could only do that outside the EU. The terror attacks just made people want rid of foreigners more and accelerated the will to leave. We don't make anything anymore is also something I have heard many many times over the years. This is my experience growing up through it, yours might be different but unless I have missed something this was the general feeling in my line of work through the years. As you're someone in the Building Trade were you as equally swayed as this lady on your voting pattern? https://www.tiktok.com/@torysc_mout/video/7247661020360051994 It's rather remarkable that prior to and after Brexit Vote everyone was exorcised by all these Mysterious EU Laws and Red Tape yet after finally leaving EU they were adopted in entirety into UK Law and barely a handful have been repealed or modified since. In fact the opposite has happened Red Tape has increased considerably as a Third Country for Exports to where we send about 50% of our Goods and we have decided not to Control our Borders for Imports from EU as it will add too much cost I do agree it was to a large extent a Protest Vote and a fatalistic one at that, well things can't get any worse They were wrong, they could and did.
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Post by thisisouryear on Nov 8, 2023 21:47:39 GMT
No doubt the crash would have had some impact but uncontrolled immigration, area's losing their identity and apparently not being able to make our own rules was the biggest driver for Brexit. As someone who works in the building trade people are quite openly against immigration and foreigners in general and it played a huge part in their reasons for voting leave and being in control of our own borders and laws. This country was going downhill long before the crash where there seemed to be no investment anywhere, area's being run down and losing businesses which were their USP and replaced with nothing. It just looked like we were falling behind whilst other countries were excelling despite us being the country that has a long history of being at the front of new technologies. The crash just compounded an issue that was already there, it just extended the period with no investment in towns and cities and with a future which looked more of the same. Spending billions on wars took away a lot of investment too. Things were so shit for so long investment wise many would have thought it couldn't get much worse than it was so it was worth the risk leaving. Every other week the Tories were blaming the EU for this that and the other and people were fed up with them supposedly forcing laws on us which were holding us back from being the country we should be. People were generally fed up of everything really and Brexit offered an opportunity for a huge kick up the arse. The terror attacks gave a huge boost to those wanting to control our own borders and the message was we could only do that outside the EU. The terror attacks just made people want rid of foreigners more and accelerated the will to leave. We don't make anything anymore is also something I have heard many many times over the years. This is my experience growing up through it, yours might be different but unless I have missed something this was the general feeling in my line of work through the years. As you're someone in the Building Trade were you as equally swayed as this lady on your voting pattern? https://www.tiktok.com/@torysc_mout/video/7247661020360051994 It's rather remarkable that prior to and after Brexit Vote everyone was exorcised by all these Mysterious EU Laws and Red Tape yet after finally leaving EU they were adopted in entirety into UK Law and barely a handful have been repealed or modified since. In fact the opposite has happened Red Tape has increased considerably as a Third Country for Exports to where we send about 50% of our Goods and we have decided not to Control our Borders for Imports from EU as it will add too much cost I do agree it was to a large extent a Protest Vote and a fatalistic one at that, well things can't get any worse They were wrong, they could and did. Whether what people believed would/should happen doesn't matter politicians from all parties let the people in this country down over a long period of time which led to where we are now. You hear a lot of people moan about London getting all the investment and it's happened for years, people felt ignored they felt that politicians turned their backs on their towns and cities and arguably they still feel the same. It doesn't really matter what figures you throw at people because people make decisions on lived experience and what they believe to be true even if it isn't. I voted Brexit as a way of forcing our government's to invest in all areas of the country, to turn us into a machine, with many parts of the country having their own identity. For me on our own we had to do more and be more and the hope was eventually our children would reap the rewards. In time maybe I will be right but at the moment nothing has changed, maybe it's got worse but sometimes things have to get worse before they get better. We are either in transition or in a shitshow, given there seems to be so little happening the latter feels more likely at the moment. All my working life all I have seen is decline, heard all the stories what a thriving country we were from older generations and wanted some of that to come back so if you asked me do I regret voting leave I would say no. Maybe that's naive of me but when things have always been shit with no sign of getting better you don't feel like you have a lot to lose. As for the link, I don't have tictoc so can't watch it. I would download it but I can't bring myself to put that shit on my phone. When it comes to social media I'm not really that interested in it and avoid it as much as possible. I'm more anti social media to be honest.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 8, 2023 21:52:43 GMT
As you're someone in the Building Trade were you as equally swayed as this lady on your voting pattern? https://www.tiktok.com/@torysc_mout/video/7247661020360051994 It's rather remarkable that prior to and after Brexit Vote everyone was exorcised by all these Mysterious EU Laws and Red Tape yet after finally leaving EU they were adopted in entirety into UK Law and barely a handful have been repealed or modified since. In fact the opposite has happened Red Tape has increased considerably as a Third Country for Exports to where we send about 50% of our Goods and we have decided not to Control our Borders for Imports from EU as it will add too much cost I do agree it was to a large extent a Protest Vote and a fatalistic one at that, well things can't get any worse They were wrong, they could and did. Whether what people believed would/should happen doesn't matter politicians from all parties let the people in this country down over a long period of time which led to where we are now. You hear a lot of people moan about London getting all the investment and it's happened for years, people felt ignored they felt that politicians turned their backs on their towns and cities and arguably they still feel the same. It doesn't really matter what figures you throw at people because people make decisions on lived experience and what they believe to be true even if it isn't. I voted Brexit as a way of forcing our government's to invest in all areas of the country, to turn us into a machine, with many parts of the country having their own identity. For me on our own we had to do more and be more and the hope was eventually our children would reap the rewards. In time maybe I will be right but at the moment nothing has changed, maybe it's got worse but sometimes things have to get worse before they get better. We are either in transition or in a shitshow, given there seems to be so little happening the latter feels more likely at the moment. All my working life all I have seen is decline, heard all the stories what a thriving country we were from older generations and wanted some of that to come back so if you asked me do I regret voting leave I would say no. Maybe that's naive of me but when things have always been shit with no sign of getting better you don't feel like you have a lot to lose. As for the link, I don't have tictoc so can't watch it. I would download it but I can't bring myself to put that shit on my phone. When it comes to social media I'm not really that interested in it and avoid it as much as possible. I'm more anti social media to be honest. Your posts today explain how I feel better than I ever could. Excellently put, non biased, solid and probably have the best feel of a nation in turmoil. No left and right, just straight talking. Love it.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 8, 2023 22:16:20 GMT
Snigger ...
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