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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Feb 9, 2023 11:27:10 GMT
So again, if you can't afford two children, why are you having two children? Secondly, love how you've selected the most expensive region in the UK. What about normal places like Birmingham, Sheffield, Leeds, Manchester, Cornwall. You're also completely ignoring the perks of a nurse (ie super market discounts etc) and the significant child benefits applicable to single women. Also, even worst case and you've got 650 a month to live off. How on earth can you not live off 650 a month? Average rent in Birmingham for a 2 bedroom (assuming 2 kids sharing) is around £1050 - www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/property/how-much-rent-birmingham-areas-23117551£850 still isn't alot of money when you have to take off internet, phone, council tax, water, insurance, car tax, fuel etc.. I'm not aware of what the supermarket discounts or child benefit entitlements are. Not every person earning 30k is a female nurse though. A male nurse on 30k could be paying an extra few hundred quid on top of the above per month for child maintenance. There is a significant difference between 1 person and 3 people living off 650. I could do it fine alone no bother, I think I'd struggle with 3 kids. I get the argument though. 30k 13 years ago went alot further and I think people sometimes underestimate the impact of inflation. For comparison, using this website here (https://iamkate.com/data/uk-inflation/), a salary of 30k in 2010 would need to be 47.7k today to be worth the same. How accurate that is I don't know because honestly that seems higher than i thought and i dont have the time to fact check it. I live in Birmingham. Most my friends earn between 20k to 40k per annum. Majority of them have children. They do not use food banks, go on strike or demand more government hand holding. Its amazing what you can get out of life if you avoid bad decisions. The government and tax payer isn't responsible for your bad decisions. In the IT corporate world I work in where six figure salaries are the norm, I see far far more financial woes than those of friends who earn, often, 70% less.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Feb 9, 2023 11:31:26 GMT
So to conclude because I've got a busy day. The best response I've had so far is "a single mom with two kids living in the South East" can't live off 650 a day for day to day spend. That is not a particularly convincing position to say the least. And your position is people earning 30k and under shouldn't have children?.. even by your standards that's vile. I tell you what's more vile. Parents who have children they know they can't afford. If you want to live a lifestyle on 30k a year that means you cannot afford to have children (totally fair enough) , surely as a normal, rational, moral human being, you have to make the adult decision as to whether kids are for you. I am totally amazed (although given you normally struggle to put a sentance together, I'm not amazed), anyone would think otherwise. Stop relying on the state to support your lifestyle.
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Post by gawa on Feb 9, 2023 11:39:54 GMT
Average rent in Birmingham for a 2 bedroom (assuming 2 kids sharing) is around £1050 - www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/property/how-much-rent-birmingham-areas-23117551£850 still isn't alot of money when you have to take off internet, phone, council tax, water, insurance, car tax, fuel etc.. I'm not aware of what the supermarket discounts or child benefit entitlements are. Not every person earning 30k is a female nurse though. A male nurse on 30k could be paying an extra few hundred quid on top of the above per month for child maintenance. There is a significant difference between 1 person and 3 people living off 650. I could do it fine alone no bother, I think I'd struggle with 3 kids. I get the argument though. 30k 13 years ago went alot further and I think people sometimes underestimate the impact of inflation. For comparison, using this website here (https://iamkate.com/data/uk-inflation/), a salary of 30k in 2010 would need to be 47.7k today to be worth the same. How accurate that is I don't know because honestly that seems higher than i thought and i dont have the time to fact check it. I live in Birmingham. Most my friends earn between 20k to 40k per annum. Majority of them have children. They do not use food banks, go on strike or demand more government hand holding. Its amazing what you can get out of life if you avoid bad decisions. The government and tax payer isn't responsible for your bad decisions. In the IT corporate world I work in where six figure salaries are the norm, I see far far more financial woes than those of friends who earn, often, 70% less. The government is responsible for how they spend tax payers money though and there have been alot of dubious decisions in recent years as well as terribly managed public services which have led to this point. If it's not the governments fault then who do you hold to account? Or do you just accept that everythings got alot shitter the last 13 years through chance and that the governments decisions have had no impact? I lived in Coventry for 5 years up until 2017 which is cheaper than Birmingham. A 2 bedroom house in a student area back then was £900. So I doubt those figures are too far off the mark. I also work in IT and you're correct alot of people in IT can earn alot of money. What do you do out of interest? (sorry if nosey, you don't need to answer)
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Feb 9, 2023 11:58:20 GMT
I live in Birmingham. Most my friends earn between 20k to 40k per annum. Majority of them have children. They do not use food banks, go on strike or demand more government hand holding. Its amazing what you can get out of life if you avoid bad decisions. The government and tax payer isn't responsible for your bad decisions. In the IT corporate world I work in where six figure salaries are the norm, I see far far more financial woes than those of friends who earn, often, 70% less. The government is responsible for how they spend tax payers money though and there have been alot of dubious decisions in recent years as well as terribly managed public services which have led to this point. If it's not the governments fault then who do you hold to account? Or do you just accept that everythings got alot shitter the last 13 years through chance and that the governments decisions have had no impact? I lived in Coventry for 5 years up until 2017 which is cheaper than Birmingham. A 2 bedroom house in a student area back then was £900. So I doubt those figures are too far off the mark. I also work in IT and you're correct alot of people in IT can earn alot of money. What do you do out of interest? (sorry if nosey, you don't need to answer) Absolutely not defending the government on anything. The past 13 years has been politically incompetent on every level. This, however, is about people taking responsibility for their own lives and understanding why a person can't live on 30k a year. Ultimately that's where the left and right disagree, hence we vehemently disagree 😊 Government safety net should be there for those exceptional circumstances, not because people can't live on £600 to £1000 a month of day to day spend. That's a lifestyle choice. I'm on the sales side mate, you?
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Post by knype on Feb 9, 2023 12:29:46 GMT
So man question with no answers, are you Keir? I wondered when we'd get to that 😂 If the questions are too difficult just say so. Not too difficult, I've answered it already.
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Post by gawa on Feb 9, 2023 12:30:16 GMT
The government is responsible for how they spend tax payers money though and there have been alot of dubious decisions in recent years as well as terribly managed public services which have led to this point. If it's not the governments fault then who do you hold to account? Or do you just accept that everythings got alot shitter the last 13 years through chance and that the governments decisions have had no impact? I lived in Coventry for 5 years up until 2017 which is cheaper than Birmingham. A 2 bedroom house in a student area back then was £900. So I doubt those figures are too far off the mark. I also work in IT and you're correct alot of people in IT can earn alot of money. What do you do out of interest? (sorry if nosey, you don't need to answer) Absolutely not defending the government on anything. The past 13 years has been politically incompetent on every level. This, however, is about people taking responsibility for their own lives and understanding why a person can't live on 30k a year. Ultimately that's where the left and right disagree, hence we vehemently disagree 😊 Government safety net should be there for those exceptional circumstances, not because people can't live on £600 to £1000 a month of day to day spend. That's a lifestyle choice. I'm on the sales side mate, you? I agree that the average person on 30k probably doesn't need to use foodbanks in most areas, I'm not arguing against that. I'm more arguing against the point that nobody over 30k needs to use a food bank which I think is nonsense as I'm sure there are people out there with dependants or debts that are struggling with the costs. Money just doesn't go very far these days. I agree government safety net should only be for exceptional circumstances. It's why I think some of the decisions during covid were a shambles which cost future generations alot of needless debt. People on furlough should never have been earning up to 30k a year. The government thinks job seekers allowance is enough for me if i lose my job today, if it's enough for me in 2022, why wasn't it enough for others during covid. Don't get me wrong I understand it helped keep businesses running but the 30k cap was far too high, it should have been lower. And those very businesses that furlough helped keep alive are the same ones now happy to charge more money for their services due to inflation but not pay their staff more. Likewise the stamp duty cuts were another disgrace which shouldn't have happened allowing wealthy people to save 10s of thousands when upgrading their homes. So much for "helping the most vulnerable". My issues are more with the disparity in wealth and growing divide between rich and poor. It's very hard to look back to the early 2010s when Cameron was saying we all need to feel the pinch for a short while to get the economy back on track and 10 years on from that most people are worse off than they were before. Yet in the same period of time multiple home ownership is on the rise, wealthy lists are increasing, BJ is getting 5 million for making a few speeches, footballers earning 500k a week, millions pounds worth of contracts going out to tory donors. It feels like there is only one group of people who face austerity and while our spending power reduces, the top 1% spending power is increasing at crazy rates. And then add in the public services failing too and house prices spiralling out of control and you begin to wonder what's the point? Why should I live pay cheque to pay cheque and have 40% of my income after tax going into a landlords pocket. We all have our breaking point and for many of us we are sick of it. You've maybe not reached yours yet but eventually you will. Too many people want to question those who have more in common with them than the elite and that's what winds me up. 5 million in speeches for boris? Blind eye. A nurse wanting an extra 3k a year? Greedy fuck. I work as an Infrastructure Engineer/Systems Analyst so decent enough job, just wish I got paid the going rate for it :lol: Got a nice job with half day fridays and mostly wfh though and as I've had mental health struggles in the past I'd rather stay somewhere I'm content and happy than chase money and maybe end up in a job i hate and dread every day. Good thing is in NI living expenses are a bit lower, particularly with housing costs so I'm in the fortunate position where I'll hopefully be able to buy a 3 bedroom house with garage for around 150k soon.
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Post by knype on Feb 9, 2023 12:31:06 GMT
And your position is people earning 30k and under shouldn't have children?.. even by your standards that's vile. It's the kind of shit that Hitler and Goebbels used to spout. Ahhh, the old Nazi slur AGAIN!
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Post by knype on Feb 9, 2023 12:32:56 GMT
Absolutely not defending the government on anything. The past 13 years has been politically incompetent on every level. This, however, is about people taking responsibility for their own lives and understanding why a person can't live on 30k a year. Ultimately that's where the left and right disagree, hence we vehemently disagree 😊 Government safety net should be there for those exceptional circumstances, not because people can't live on £600 to £1000 a month of day to day spend. That's a lifestyle choice. I'm on the sales side mate, you? I agree that the average person on 30k probably doesn't need to use foodbanks in most areas, I'm not arguing against that. I'm more arguing against the point that nobody over 30k needs to use a food bank which I think is nonsense as I'm sure there are people out there with dependants or debts that are struggling with the costs. Money just doesn't go very far these days. I agree government safety net should only be for exceptional circumstances. It's why I think some of the decisions during covid were a shambles which cost future generations alot of needless debt. People on furlough should never have been earning up to 30k a year. The government thinks job seekers allowance is enough for me if i lose my job today, if it's enough for me in 2022, why wasn't it enough for others during covid. Don't get me wrong I understand it helped keep businesses running but the 30k cap was far too high, it should have been lower. And those very businesses that furlough helped keep alive are the same ones now happy to charge more money for their services due to inflation but not pay their staff more. Likewise the stamp duty cuts were another disgrace which shouldn't have happened allowing wealthy people to save 10s of thousands when upgrading their homes. So much for "helping the most vulnerable". My issues are more with the disparity in wealth and growing divide between rich and poor. It's very hard to look back to the early 2010s when Cameron was saying we all need to feel the pinch for a short while to get the economy back on track and 10 years on from that most people are worse off than they were before. Yet in the same period of time multiple home ownership is on the rise, wealthy lists are increasing, BJ is getting 5 million for making a few speeches, footballers earning 500k a week, millions pounds worth of contracts going out to tory donors. It feels like there is only one group of people who face austerity and while our spending power reduces, the top 1% spending power is increasing at crazy rates. And then add in the public services failing too and house prices spiralling out of control and you begin to wonder what's the point? Why should I live pay cheque to pay cheque and have 40% of my income after tax going into a landlords pocket. We all have our breaking point and for many of us we are sick of it. You've maybe not reached yours yet but eventually you will. Too many people want to question those who have more in common with them than the elite and that's what winds me up. 5 million in speeches for boris? Blind eye. A nurse wanting an extra 3k a year? Greedy fuck. I work as an Infrastructure Engineer/Systems Analyst so decent enough job, just wish I got paid the going rate for it :lol: Got a nice job with half day fridays and mostly wfh though and as I've had mental health struggles in the past I'd rather stay somewhere I'm content and happy than chase money and maybe end up in a job i hate and dread every day. Good thing is in NI living expenses are a bit lower, particularly with housing costs so I'm in the fortunate position where I'll hopefully be able to buy a 3 bedroom house with garage for around 150k soon. Do you include sports men and women in the disparity between the rich and the poor?
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Post by knype on Feb 9, 2023 12:34:01 GMT
No idea, that is why I asked I can tell you how the one I volunteer in works. Firstly there's people who get referred through the foodbank referral system (a voucher is given by various agencies such as the Job Centre, local welfare organisations etc.) which usually entitles them to 3 days emergency provisions (it differs slightly depending on stock levels at the time). Secondly there's more of an ad hoc system where people who need food and other supplies simply turn up. They register and there's someone on hand to talk to them about their circumstances and offer advice where it's needed/wanted over a tea or coffee (could be advice about unclaimed benefits, cooking tips, organisations to refer people to for financial advice etc). Then there's the "food pantry" where goods are available to people purely on the basis of what's been donated that day/week (one day there might be 100 bunches of bananas to share out, next day it might be 100 croissants, the next day 100 packets of sanitary towels etc) All I'll say is you'd have to be pretty hard faced and determined to beat the system to put yourself in that situation for a couple of days worth of food. In my experience it's desperate parents with kids whose Universal Credit has been delayed (or they've had some form of Universal Credit sanction), people who live hand to mouth waiting 3/4 days before their next pay cheque and that type of scenario. Thanks for that, a good insight to how it works.
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Post by knype on Feb 9, 2023 12:36:15 GMT
I wondered when we'd get to that 😂 If the questions are too difficult just say so. From the man that usually answers a question with a question, that's rich!! Obsesses and supposedly blocks me but reads every post! Laughable you are Huddy, and like I have said numerous times, no bollocks!
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Post by gawa on Feb 9, 2023 12:36:20 GMT
I should put on record while I'm here that I think I owe an apology to knype/scfcbianca by the way. I know we clash alot and will continue to do so.
But I remember drunkenly posting on saturday night after hitting the town and I actively avoided the forum the next day as I wasn't sure if I went a bit OTT with one of my rants.
So yeah I know it will probably happen again and I don't expect you to accept it. But I am sorry if anything I said was out of order... I was too worried to read back so just actively avoided the thread for a few days.
But yeah I'm very aware that sometimes I might come across badly on here and it's something I need to work on as well as respecting others views more even where I don't agree.
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Post by knype on Feb 9, 2023 12:37:43 GMT
So I'm giving you the open forum to tell me why someone can't live off 30k a year! Tell me?! Increase in rent Increase in energy prices Increase in childcare costs No savings (see above) meaning a car/washing machine/boiler breaking down needs fixing/replacing An illness in the family Spiralling debt etc etc. So normal adult living?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 9, 2023 12:43:57 GMT
Increase in rent Increase in energy prices Increase in childcare costs No savings (see above) meaning a car/washing machine/boiler breaking down needs fixing/replacing An illness in the family Spiralling debt etc etc. So normal adult living? I have no idea what that means sorry? If your wages are stagnated or rising slower than inflation and all your bills are going up in one go, you don't have savings and your car breaks down that is an issue. I'm ok financially, you may be ok financially but that doesn't mean that everyone is and often through no fault of their own. We're not talking about people earning 30k using foodbanks being the norm here but why anyone couldn't have an ounce of empathy into why there may be people in that situation I have no idea? Use a crystal ball when you have kids isn't really sound advice unfortunately..........
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Post by elystokie on Feb 9, 2023 12:44:29 GMT
I wondered when we'd get to that 😂 If the questions are too difficult just say so. Not too difficult, I've answered it already. I asked why now and not before and you went off on one about Starmer as far as I can see looking back through the thread. Like the Scottish bloke said to Sunak a couple of weeks ago, I'm not sure which question you answered but it certainly wasn't the one I asked
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Post by knype on Feb 9, 2023 12:48:08 GMT
I have no idea what that means sorry? If your wages are stagnated or rising slower than inflation and all your bills are going up in one go, you don't have savings and your car breaks down that is an issue. I'm ok financially, you may be ok financially but that doesn't mean that everyone is and often through no fault of their own. We're not talking about people earning 30k using foodbanks being the norm here but why anyone couldn't have an ounce of empathy into why there may be people in that situation I have no idea? Use a crystal ball when you have kids isn't really sound advice unfortunately.......... I mean isnt that what bringing up families and running a house is like for the majority of people? Bills go up, cars break down etc etc etc?
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Post by knype on Feb 9, 2023 12:49:55 GMT
Not too difficult, I've answered it already. I asked why now and not before and you went off on one about Starmer as far as I can see looking back through the thread. Like the Scottish bloke said to Sunak a couple of weeks ago, I'm not sure which question you answered but it certainly wasn't the one I asked Look back through your questions?
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Post by elystokie on Feb 9, 2023 12:53:27 GMT
I asked why now and not before and you went off on one about Starmer as far as I can see looking back through the thread. Like the Scottish bloke said to Sunak a couple of weeks ago, I'm not sure which question you answered but it certainly wasn't the one I asked Look back through your questions? I did. The last question I asked was why now and not before, I can't see an answer, perhaps you could point to it?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 9, 2023 13:03:34 GMT
I have no idea what that means sorry? If your wages are stagnated or rising slower than inflation and all your bills are going up in one go, you don't have savings and your car breaks down that is an issue. I'm ok financially, you may be ok financially but that doesn't mean that everyone is and often through no fault of their own. We're not talking about people earning 30k using foodbanks being the norm here but why anyone couldn't have an ounce of empathy into why there may be people in that situation I have no idea? Use a crystal ball when you have kids isn't really sound advice unfortunately.......... I mean isnt that what bringing up families and running a house is like for the majority of people? Bills go up, cars break down etc etc etc? I keep hearing from the government these are unprecedented times largely out of their control so why wouldn't families suffer at the moment? Some people have fixed mortgages, some people have fixed tariffs on their energy bills, others often down to sheer timing don't. That could be the difference between your head being above water or your family being in the shit.........
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Post by knype on Feb 9, 2023 13:35:13 GMT
Look back through your questions? I did. The last question I asked was why now and not before, I can't see an answer, perhaps you could point to it? The answer is who knows? I certainly don't, I also think it's personally just another politicised point to hammer the government with?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 9, 2023 13:37:08 GMT
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Post by knype on Feb 9, 2023 13:37:50 GMT
I mean isnt that what bringing up families and running a house is like for the majority of people? Bills go up, cars break down etc etc etc? I keep hearing from the government these are unprecedented times largely out of their control so why wouldn't families suffer at the moment? Some people have fixed mortgages, some people have fixed tariffs on their energy bills, others often down to sheer timing don't. That could be the difference between your head being above water or your family being in the shit......... Yes obviously, but for the last x amount of years people may have borrowed way above their means with 0% interest rates and not realising that this isn't a given and it can rise and fall? Obviously the same with cars on lease etc When people are struggling have they got 1k mobile phones? Have they got Sky TV? Playstations, Xbox's?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 9, 2023 14:09:15 GMT
He has literally said that the truth doesn't matter because he got voted in. What he did, was voter deception and that is seriously the best he can come up with in defence of his actions? He is displaying the intellect of a primary school child at best. One that attempts to make up for their lack of acumen, by being an out and out bully.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 9, 2023 14:09:56 GMT
I keep hearing from the government these are unprecedented times largely out of their control so why wouldn't families suffer at the moment? Some people have fixed mortgages, some people have fixed tariffs on their energy bills, others often down to sheer timing don't. That could be the difference between your head being above water or your family being in the shit......... Yes obviously, but for the last x amount of years people may have borrowed way above their means with 0% interest rates and not realising that this isn't a given and it can rise and fall? Obviously the same with cars on lease etc When people are struggling have they got 1k mobile phones? Have they got Sky TV? Playstations, Xbox's? Not sure I know anyone that owns a £1k mobile phone to be honest irrespective of what they earn...........
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Post by knype on Feb 9, 2023 14:12:00 GMT
Yes obviously, but for the last x amount of years people may have borrowed way above their means with 0% interest rates and not realising that this isn't a given and it can rise and fall? Obviously the same with cars on lease etc When people are struggling have they got 1k mobile phones? Have they got Sky TV? Playstations, Xbox's? Not sure I know anyone that owns a £1k mobile phone to be honest irrespective of what they earn........... You don't ? Have a look at the prices of the latest Iphones and Samsung Galaxy Note phones...
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Post by knype on Feb 9, 2023 14:12:51 GMT
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Post by elystokie on Feb 9, 2023 14:15:29 GMT
I did. The last question I asked was why now and not before, I can't see an answer, perhaps you could point to it? The answer is who knows? I certainly don't, I also think it's personally just another politicised point to hammer the government with? Lol It seems you didn't have an answer after all then, because you can't construct one that fits with your political view, so it looks like you initially made stuff up and now can't defend it.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 9, 2023 14:17:50 GMT
To my knowledge I don't know one person with an Iphone 14, I certainly have no desire to purchase one either.......
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Post by plug on Feb 9, 2023 14:24:13 GMT
There is a bunch of them. ALDI is definitely one of them. Let me guess, they don't want to shop at ALDI. Who are the others in this bunch? Nonetheless, thanks for that, I have relatives that work for the NHS, I'll make sure they're aware. You're absolutely sure tho? Don't want to tell them and end up looking a bit of a twat Are your relatives in the Blue Light scheme for NHS staff etc? Pretty sure it's 10% off in Asda, not sure about other supermarkets.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 9, 2023 14:31:11 GMT
Who are the others in this bunch? Nonetheless, thanks for that, I have relatives that work for the NHS, I'll make sure they're aware. You're absolutely sure tho? Don't want to tell them and end up looking a bit of a twat Are your relatives in the Blue Light scheme for NHS staff etc? Pretty sure it's 10% off in Asda, not sure about other supermarkets. It is. Soon to come to an end I believe.......
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Post by plug on Feb 9, 2023 14:32:34 GMT
Are your relatives in the Blue Light scheme for NHS staff etc? Pretty sure it's 10% off in Asda, not sure about other supermarkets. It is. Soon to come to an end I believe....... Oh, scratch that thought then!
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