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Post by peterthornesboots on Oct 20, 2022 19:48:57 GMT
Only the Tories are tried and tested and we have had 6 years of absolute chaos under their leadership and things have gone downhill significantly for almost every aspect of our country and society in the last decade. Time for another party to run the country and we can then see of you are right because you cannot judge any of the other parties on how they would be in government. Exactly, it's easy to say there's no credible alternative whilst continuing to maintain the status quo and not giving them the opportunity. I appreciate the job of PM is an incredibly difficult too, but I am deadly serious when I say I think I could have done a better job in office than Liz Truss has. I'd have backed myself to have lasted longer. So the point about there being no suitable alternative doesn't wash. This. The claim that there is no suitable alternative is nonsense, simply because the current government has set the bar so low.
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Post by knype on Oct 20, 2022 19:51:16 GMT
The last 2.5 years has made a massive difference to how the country would have been run imo. I never voted for Boris or the Tory Party but they won easily because Labour went down a lunatic route with Corbyn and so they had their chance. I firmly believe that anyone in charge over the last few years would have all faired around the same, my worry with Drama and his cohorts is they wanted the lockdowns to be harder and foe longer. Which itself has led to where we currently are money wise Johnson brought the office in to disrepute. The worse leader the country has ever seen. Truss was hopeless. Starmer wanted earlier lockdowns for less time. 95% of all covid cases at the time Johnson initially locked down were contracted in the 14 days before he locked down. Had he done the sensible thing and locked down 2 weeks earlier, the curve would have been well and truly flattened and the lockdown wouldn’t have lasted nearly as long. The tories are awful. We know that. Out of ideas. Starmer looks pretty good. Starmer 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Post by FullerMagic on Oct 20, 2022 19:51:56 GMT
Country being held hostage by a few thousand cranks and nutters.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Oct 20, 2022 19:54:00 GMT
If we really do live in a fair, democratic country how the fuck is any of this “fair”? You can’t be ousted from your position under a cloud, and then be allowed to simply waltz back into the position that you left! Certainly not without answering the allegations that caused your resignation. If this country’s voting system needed a complete overhaul already, then this hammers that point home even further.
The public voted for Boris in 2019, but they didn’t vote for him fucking off and coming back again like some kind of saviour. It’s absolute fucking madness that it can even be considered.
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Post by milton58 on Oct 20, 2022 19:58:04 GMT
Why is Johnson so loved? I honestly don't get it. because he's a bubbling baffon and people just laugh it off saying it's just bozza...but he's just a fucking lyning twat who well and truly fucked this country for God knows when
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 20, 2022 20:00:12 GMT
Country being held hostage by a few thousand cranks and nutters. “Very strongly worded emails”,lol. This country’s fucked
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 20, 2022 20:00:46 GMT
Why is Johnson so loved? I honestly don't get it. because he's a bubbling baffon and people just laugh it off saying it's just bozza...but he's just a fucking lyning twat who well and truly fucked this country for God knows when Fair point well made
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Post by peterthornesboots on Oct 20, 2022 20:01:28 GMT
If we really do live in a fair, democratic country how the fuck is any of this “fair”? You can’t be ousted from your position under a cloud, and then be allowed to simply waltz back into the position that you left! Certainly not without answering the allegations that caused your resignation. If this country’s voting system needed a complete overhaul already, then this hammers that point home even further. The public voted for Boris in 2019, but they didn’t vote for him fucking off and coming back again like some kind of saviour. It’s absolute fucking madness that it can even be considered. The fact that a man like Boris Johnson got within a million miles of becoming Prime Minister in the first place demonstrates how our political system is broken (and lacking people of character, integrity and intelligence). The fact that he is seriously being discussed as returning, despite having to resign only months ago due to being engulfed in scandals, is a seriously depressing and sobering moment for this country.
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Post by toppercorner on Oct 20, 2022 20:02:01 GMT
Is the process broken then regardless of the candidate? Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Tory membership must have been infuriatingly wrestling with their inner xenophobia and their misogyny when making the last choice. Sunak will have to win through MPs to get into power because the members ain't voting for him. Let's face it, he's the best person for the job. The man who purposefully let 3m self-employed suffer during the greatest crisis of our times. Thousands committed suicide. The chancellor of the exchequer who held a US green card whilst in office The man who's father in law is friends with Putin The man who's wife pays no tax, and who's companies took over a million in covid loans before folding them, so didn't have to pay them back. The man who was right in the mix for the 2008 recession? The man who greenlit the £600bn in debt for the uk on covid loans, including the ludicrous £37bn to seco, and billions more to tory cronies? i might swerve this snake, i suggest the rest of the uk does as well.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Oct 20, 2022 20:02:54 GMT
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Oct 20, 2022 20:07:53 GMT
Johnson brought the office in to disrepute. The worse leader the country has ever seen. Truss was hopeless. Starmer wanted earlier lockdowns for less time. 95% of all covid cases at the time Johnson initially locked down were contracted in the 14 days before he locked down. Had he done the sensible thing and locked down 2 weeks earlier, the curve would have been well and truly flattened and the lockdown wouldn’t have lasted nearly as long. The tories are awful. We know that. Out of ideas. Starmer looks pretty good. Starmer 🤣🤣🤣🤣 He'll be ever so slightly better than the last 3 absolute pricks in charge.
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Post by wannabee on Oct 20, 2022 20:13:19 GMT
Farage. For a good Christian you choose some odd bedfellows Mr Coke. Putin and Trump were/are also anti-EU, and were delighted with Brexit and hoped more would follow. You can see why. It makes Europe and it's countries weaker (however so far it's only us that's been daft enough) Still - if you want to use your spare time doing the bidding of psychopathic criminal billionaires I guess that's your business. I suppose you could say Brexit is a broad church with supporters from the left and right. I am quite capable of making up my own mind without doing anyone's bidding apart from my Christian conscience. I used to support EEC membership but experience led me to a different view. A view made all the more passionate since 2016 and the forces at work to overturn the referendum. There are many Christians take different views on Brexit. There are extreme views in favour of Brexit such as David Hathaway (see YouTube The Rape Of Europe), and those diametrically opposed like James O'Brien. Then there are those like my self who are not bigots but prepared to change their view. www.premierchristianity.com/home/i-voted-remain-but-now-i-think-brexit-will-safeguard-our-christian-freedoms/927.articleA) The problem with politicians is once you give them power they want to impose their will on everything and quite prepared to change policy to retain power, so it is imperative that we the people retain the means of removing them, even if it means waiting till an election
B) How many of the present government voted to Remain because they thought Remain would win, but then support Brexit, when Leave won the referendum. Consequently we get muddled thinking. In the interests of Brevity I'll restrict myself to three short questions On your Point A) Isn't the problem with Parliamentary Democracy is that if a Despotic Leader is Elected (Orban as an example) with a sufficient majority to overturn the checks and balances of the other Pillars. Johnson attempted to actually do this but didn't have sufficient majority Prorogation (Parliament) Judiciary (contant attacks including from Home Secretary and pliant Media) The advantage of a Presidential system is self evident If Trump had the executive power to overule Congress/Senate and/or Judiciary he undoubtedly would On your Point B) whether I agree or not by implication of your Point then with a change of Government or policy of existing Government then the Brexit issue could and possibly should be revisited periodically On a final point (and I fully understand the Parliamentary Monarchy argument) how is it even vaguely Sovereign to have a tiny proportion of paid up members of which the profile of membership is not disclosed even vaguely Democratic We do know that a Tortoise Media successfully registered Archie the stations Tortoise, a couple of Foreign Nationals and the late Margaret Thatcher as paid up members. Unfortunately they were unable to vote for Liz as you needed to be a Member for 3 months but they should be good to go next week www.google.com/amp/s/uk.movies.yahoo.com/amphtml/conservative-party-faces-legal-action-110714680.html
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Post by salopstick on Oct 20, 2022 20:16:16 GMT
We elect a party not a leader. We elected boris’s manifesto That’s what the next leader should be pushing Or an immediate election. I feel the conservatives need time in opposition to get themselves together. Get rid of the criminals and come back stronger. Unfortunately I do t think labour can win a landslide. And they will prop themselves up with the snp for power God help us What parts of Boris 2019 manifesto did you prefer over Labour's? The bit where he didn’t say he would negotiate a better deal and vote against it
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 20, 2022 20:36:39 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 20, 2022 20:37:24 GMT
Why is Johnson so loved? I honestly don't get it. We're quite an infantile country really, full of lots of people who don't really care what happens to them provided someone they've been brought up to see as "posh, upper class and better than them" tells them what to do.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 20, 2022 20:42:47 GMT
Only the Tories are tried and tested and we have had 6 years of absolute chaos under their leadership and things have gone downhill significantly for almost every aspect of our country and society in the last decade. Time for another party to run the country and we can then see of you are right because you cannot judge any of the other parties on how they would be in government. Exactly, it's easy to say there's no credible alternative whilst continuing to maintain the status quo and not giving them the opportunity. I appreciate the job of PM is an incredibly difficult too, but I am deadly serious when I say I think I could have done a better job in office than Liz Truss has. I'd have backed myself to have lasted longer. So the point about there being no suitable alternative doesn't wash. You probably could have done a better job. Read Faisal Islam's analysis on the BBC, there were several very senior Cabinet ministers who simply didn't understand what they were doing. The fact that these talentless people get anywhere near running the country is terrifying and just shows how awful our electoral system is, and, frankly, how ignorant, ill-informed and lazy the electorate is too.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Oct 20, 2022 20:48:23 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 20, 2022 20:56:51 GMT
Exactly, it's easy to say there's no credible alternative whilst continuing to maintain the status quo and not giving them the opportunity. I appreciate the job of PM is an incredibly difficult too, but I am deadly serious when I say I think I could have done a better job in office than Liz Truss has. I'd have backed myself to have lasted longer. So the point about there being no suitable alternative doesn't wash. This. The claim that there is no suitable alternative is nonsense, simply because the current government has set the bar so low. It's the standard comeback trotted out by people whose preferred side is doing so badly. They can't even convince themselves that their own side isn't useless, so to feel better, they tell themselves that the other side is just as bad.
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 20, 2022 22:28:01 GMT
I suppose you could say Brexit is a broad church with supporters from the left and right. I am quite capable of making up my own mind without doing anyone's bidding apart from my Christian conscience. I used to support EEC membership but experience led me to a different view. A view made all the more passionate since 2016 and the forces at work to overturn the referendum. There are many Christians take different views on Brexit. There are extreme views in favour of Brexit such as David Hathaway (see YouTube The Rape Of Europe), and those diametrically opposed like James O'Brien. Then there are those like my self who are not bigots but prepared to change their view. www.premierchristianity.com/home/i-voted-remain-but-now-i-think-brexit-will-safeguard-our-christian-freedoms/927.articleA) The problem with politicians is once you give them power they want to impose their will on everything and quite prepared to change policy to retain power, so it is imperative that we the people retain the means of removing them, even if it means waiting till an election
B) How many of the present government voted to Remain because they thought Remain would win, but then support Brexit, when Leave won the referendum. Consequently we get muddled thinking. In the interests of Brevity I'll restrict myself to three short questions On your Point A) Isn't the problem with Parliamentary Democracy is that if a Despotic Leader is Elected (Orban as an example) with a sufficient majority to overturn the checks and balances of the other Pillars. Johnson attempted to actually do this but didn't have sufficient majority Prorogation (Parliament) Judiciary (contant attacks including from Home Secretary and pliant Media) The advantage of a Presidential system is self evident If Trump had the executive power to overrule Congress/Senate and/or Judiciary he undoubtedly would On your Point B) whether I agree or not by implication of your Point then with a change of Government or policy of existing Government then the Brexit issue could and possibly should be revisited periodically On a final point (and I fully understand the Parliamentary Monarchy argument) how is it even vaguely Sovereign to have a tiny proportion of paid up members of which the profile of membership is not disclosed even vaguely Democratic We do know that a Tortoise Media successfully registered Archie the stations Tortoise, a couple of Foreign Nationals and the late Margaret Thatcher as paid up members. Unfortunately they were unable to vote for Liz as you needed to be a Member for 3 months but they should be good to go next week www.google.com/amp/s/uk.movies.yahoo.com/amphtml/conservative-party-faces-legal-action-110714680.htmlPoint A. I think there all sorts of problems with our system of government, but I think the main one is the politicians, rather than the system per se. Yes a despotic leader or a character like Johnson who has no respect for rules and protocol would certainly be a problem, but as I have pointed out earlier today, we have actually managed one way or another to remove or force out the last two PMs, whereas other systems would find that a lot more difficult. How many presidents have actually been removed, and some of them (Berlusconi, Sarkozy, Chirac) were found to be crooks. I think the US Presidential system has merits, and I would like to see our HoL replaced by a senate, which would be elected and have power to amend and delay government legislation, but not overturn it. But what happens as in France today when a president can't get his legislation through the elected representatives? In France the president has taken emergency powers to push through his legislation, hardly democratic. I think there is no ideal system and a system has to suit the character of the country. I am not a supporter of PR, because we British are very individualistic and find it difficult to bury differences and agree. There is current in fighting in the Tory Party, and I've lost count of the number of Tory leaders there were when Blair was PM, and as for the Labour party they have spent decades in the wilderness because of in-fighting between the extreme left and the centre politicians. How then can we reasonably expect coalitions to work in the UK if our two main parties are always changing leaders? We would be worse than Italy! Just look at the problems May had when she couldn't command a majority in the Commons, she was impotent. Thatcher would have been ditched by her party a lot sooner, but she was "saved" by the Falklands War *. I just don't think coalition government, which is the natural consequence of PR would work for the British. * www.upi.com/Archives/1981/12/18/Mrs-Thatcher-called-Britains-most-unpopular-leader-since-WW-II/7728377499600/Point B. I see no problem is revisiting membership of the EU periodically, but what should the period be? Certainly not less than a decade, you cannot go in and out on a regular basis. If there was another referendum and a vote to join the EU, I would respect that decision. On the issue of party leadership change, I think there has to be some rule where if a PM changes then the new PM has to abide by the manifesto the former PM was elected on, or go to the country. They should not simply change direction like Truss did. Truss said she is resigning because she cannot implement the "manifesto" she was elected to the Tory leadership on. Well firstly, if she really believed that, she should have resigned last week instead of doing U turn, and secondly the Tory party has no mandate to change the policies that got them into power in 2019. I appreciate there can be "events" that prevent implementing policy till a later date. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that all the promises the Tories made at the December 2019 general election went out the window a matter of weeks later when the world pandemic broke, and even today some of those promises are simply impractical with all the problems the pandemic has created. It would be same if the country went to war, and we are in a cold war with energy and food prices going through the roof right across Europe.
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Oct 20, 2022 22:56:14 GMT
Laughing stock of the world
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Post by GrahamHyde on Oct 21, 2022 1:20:13 GMT
Why is Johnson so loved? I honestly don't get it. We're quite an infantile country really, full of lots of people who don't really care what happens to them provided someone they've been brought up to see as "posh, upper class and better than them" tells them what to do. Yep, juvenile, lack the propensity or desire for critical thought and as a result are easily swayed by the press. Seemingly more interested in feeling like they're getting one over on the left when in reality they're voting to shoot themselves in the face. I'm convinced there's almost some sort of sadomasochistic tendencies at play among a lot of the electorate when it comes to voting day. Then again that's the kind of coalition people like Johnson and Trump rely on to gain and maintain power. As a result they're almost seen as cult figures in many circles.
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Post by wannabee on Oct 21, 2022 2:19:14 GMT
In the interests of Brevity I'll restrict myself to three short questions On your Point A) Isn't the problem with Parliamentary Democracy is that if a Despotic Leader is Elected (Orban as an example) with a sufficient majority to overturn the checks and balances of the other Pillars. Johnson attempted to actually do this but didn't have sufficient majority Prorogation (Parliament) Judiciary (contant attacks including from Home Secretary and pliant Media) The advantage of a Presidential system is self evident If Trump had the executive power to overrule Congress/Senate and/or Judiciary he undoubtedly would On your Point B) whether I agree or not by implication of your Point then with a change of Government or policy of existing Government then the Brexit issue could and possibly should be revisited periodically On a final point (and I fully understand the Parliamentary Monarchy argument) how is it even vaguely Sovereign to have a tiny proportion of paid up members of which the profile of membership is not disclosed even vaguely Democratic We do know that a Tortoise Media successfully registered Archie the stations Tortoise, a couple of Foreign Nationals and the late Margaret Thatcher as paid up members. Unfortunately they were unable to vote for Liz as you needed to be a Member for 3 months but they should be good to go next week www.google.com/amp/s/uk.movies.yahoo.com/amphtml/conservative-party-faces-legal-action-110714680.htmlPoint A. I think there all sorts of problems with our system of government, but I think the main one is the politicians, rather than the system per se. Yes a despotic leader or a character like Johnson who has no respect for rules and protocol would certainly be a problem, but as I have pointed out earlier today, we have actually managed one way or another to remove or force out the last two PMs, whereas other systems would find that a lot more difficult. How many presidents have actually been removed, and some of them (Berlusconi, Sarkozy, Chirac) were found to be crooks. I think the US Presidential system has merits, and I would like to see our HoL replaced by a senate, which would be elected and have power to amend and delay government legislation, but not overturn it. But what happens as in France today when a president can't get his legislation through the elected representatives? In France the president has taken emergency powers to push through his legislation, hardly democratic. I think there is no ideal system and a system has to suit the character of the country. I am not a supporter of PR, because we British are very individualistic and find it difficult to bury differences and agree. There is current in fighting in the Tory Party, and I've lost count of the number of Tory leaders there were when Blair was PM, and as for the Labour party they have spent decades in the wilderness because of in-fighting between the extreme left and the centre politicians. How then can we reasonably expect coalitions to work in the UK if our two main parties are always changing leaders? We would be worse than Italy! Just look at the problems May had when she couldn't command a majority in the Commons, she was impotent. Thatcher would have been ditched by her party a lot sooner, but she was "saved" by the Falklands War *. I just don't think coalition government, which is the natural consequence of PR would work for the British. * www.upi.com/Archives/1981/12/18/Mrs-Thatcher-called-Britains-most-unpopular-leader-since-WW-II/7728377499600/Point B. I see no problem is revisiting membership of the EU periodically, but what should the period be? Certainly not less than a decade, you cannot go in and out on a regular basis. If there was another referendum and a vote to join the EU, I would respect that decision. On the issue of party leadership change, I think there has to be some rule where if a PM changes then the new PM has to abide by the manifesto the former PM was elected on, or go to the country. They should not simply change direction like Truss did. Truss said she is resigning because she cannot implement the "manifesto" she was elected to the Tory leadership on. Well firstly, if she really believed that, she should have resigned last week instead of doing U turn, and secondly the Tory party has no mandate to change the policies that got them into power in 2019. I appreciate there can be "events" that prevent implementing policy till a later date. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that all the promises the Tories made at the December 2019 general election went out the window a matter of weeks later when the world pandemic broke, and even today some of those promises are simply impractical with all the problems the pandemic has created. It would be same if the country went to war, and we are in a cold war with energy and food prices going through the roof right across Europe. You make reasonable counterpoints, but my central theme was that Sovereignty as such, specifically in UK can be usurped by a Rouge Administration like Johnson's who merely have to "look away" because there are insufficient checks and balances in our system of Governance. The British Parliamentary System has relied historically on "Good Chaps" doing the "Right Thing" and more often than not did so. The trouble arises when you allow " a Fox into the Hen House" his corrupting influence becomes pervasive So yes I agree Politicians are to blame, but the system allows them the opportunity. You say we have managed to "remove or force out" the last 2 PMs (Apologies I haven't read your previous post) I would argue strenuously that it was self preservation which forced the issue on both occasions from MPs fearful of reelection You cannot tell me that Johnson's Excesses or Truss’s incompetence were not widely known within the Party. They were perfectly willing to overlook their faults as long as it was expedient and ran for the lifeboats when it wasn't You ask how many Presidents have been removed and cite Berlusconi (never President) Sarkozy and Chirac ( who's legal problems relate to when he was Mayor of Paris) nevertheless I get your point I'd say it's a credit to the Italian Prosecuting system and Antonio del Piero in particular who pursued a Billionaire (estimated fortune $6B) and with immence political influence to a successful conviction for what was known as "Tangentopoli" (Kickbacks) and Tax Fraud. During the Covid Epidemic many Billions of Contracts were approved via The UK Government VIP Lane (consistently denied it even existed) including a £40M PPE Contract to Matt Hancock's (he seems to be getting more visible these days) Pub Landlord. This VIP Lane was found to be unlawful in the High Court but Freedom of Information Requests continue to be frustrated. Will the Covid enquiry or NAO get to the bottom of this? No I don't think so either. Sarkozy and Chirac were ironically Prosecuted for overspending on Election Campaigns. Funding for the Vote Leave Campaign was found to be fraudulent by the Electoral Commission Excess funds were used over the permitted amount and through Jiggery Pokery moved funds between Vote Leave, BeLeave and the mysterious £400,000 sent to DUP in NI an enormous sum in that context. Because the Referendum was "Advisory" the Electoral Commission had no powers to pursue the matter further, but pass it to Government for further action When the Electoral Commission reluctantly began its investigation there were howls of derision from Johnson, Gove, Rabb, Patel etc that it was sour grapes on behalf of Remain and nothing would be found. When it was proved conclusively that skulduggery had indeed occurred there was strangely silence from the aforementioned people Naturally it was in the gift of these same people to "Mark their own homework" and of course they declined to do so. The above does not include the nefarious activities of Mr Banks or indeed the suppressed for "National Security Reasons " The Russia Report. You correctly identified areas where corruption within Public Office and Subversion of The Electoral Process were successfully Prosecuted in Italy and France. These same egregious acts have been perpetrated in UK in recent years but they are simply swept under the carpet and there are no checks and balances in our Government Structure which renders UK Sovereignty/Democracy flawed www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/17/vote-leave-broke-electoral-law-and-british-democracy-is-shakenPoint B You have always maintained that UK Sovereignty is maintained by no current Government binding future Governments. As we have no written Constitution, Referendum are by nature advisory and voluntary There would be nothing to stop any future Government renegotiating re-entry to EU in the "National Interest " for Economic or Security Considerations and I can easily see it happening in the future Regarding Party Leadership and Manifesto's again this could only be voluntary for the same reason as non binding on future Governments The Fixed Term Parliament was overturned when expedient It is the flaw in thinking that Power is in the hands of the people when in fact when Elected MPs can do precisely what they want to do. The only reason further Electoral Excesses are not pursued by sitting Governments is the fear if they lose office even worse calamities will be visited upon them by an incoming Government
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Post by knype on Oct 21, 2022 3:43:46 GMT
He'll be ever so slightly better than the last 3 absolute pricks in charge. I am not so sure that he has a backbone, time will tell
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Post by knype on Oct 21, 2022 3:45:20 GMT
Why is Johnson so loved? I honestly don't get it. We're quite an infantile country really, full of lots of people who don't really care what happens to them provided someone they've been brought up to see as "posh, upper class and better than them" tells them what to do. Wow, you have a real issue with anyone who is upper class or posh, let it go mate.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Oct 21, 2022 4:17:36 GMT
He'll be ever so slightly better than the last 3 absolute pricks in charge. Are we talking about the new Prime Minister or the new Stoke manager? It appears an equally applicable statement.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 21, 2022 5:48:00 GMT
We're quite an infantile country really, full of lots of people who don't really care what happens to them provided someone they've been brought up to see as "posh, upper class and better than them" tells them what to do. Yep, juvenile, lack the propensity or desire for critical thought and as a result are easily swayed by the press. Seemingly more interested in feeling like they're getting one over on the left when in reality they're voting to shoot themselves in the face. I'm convinced there's almost some sort of sadomasochistic tendencies at play among a lot of the electorate when it comes to voting day. Then again that's the kind of coalition people like Johnson and Trump rely on to gain and maintain power. As a result they're almost seen as cult figures in many circles. Very much so. Chuck in our rather insular distrust of those not like us, banging on about the war at every opportunity, needing royals/toffs to lose our collective marbles about every so often and it's a rather embarrassing, childish populace that seems to need to be told what's good for it by someone "better" than them. I get what you mean about the sadomasochism too. It's as if people simply won't allow themselves to consider whether things could be done differently or better, even when it's been shown to be based on outright lies and incompetence. People they've been conditioned by society to look up to have told them what's what and that's that. The possibility of someone returning to office who openly laughed at ordinary people for following the orders he completely ignored is the perfect demonstration of it.
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 21, 2022 6:10:18 GMT
If I were PM, I’d introduce a law prohibiting ministers from being appointed without sufficient expertise and experience in their field. No more career politicians. No more PPE graduates from Oxford.
A former teacher as education secretary A former doctor or nurse as health sec Economist as chancellor Diplomat as foreign sec Lawyer as justice sec Ex-military as defence Police or some sort of security officer or border force or immigration lawyer as home sec
I bet that would help make a better government. Gove is one of the most hated education and justice ministers ever by people in those fields. Why did he ever have those jobs when he knows nothing about the areas?
It doesn’t always work of course - Suella Braverman was an appalling Attorney General proven by the fact her legal analysis was often so wrong in the face of judicial reviews of government laws and policy (usually because she ignored the government lawyers advising her otherwise).
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 21, 2022 6:22:36 GMT
If I were PM, I’d introduce a law prohibiting ministers from being appointed without sufficient expertise and experience in their field. No more career politicians. No more PPE graduates from Oxford. A former teacher as education secretary A former doctor or nurse as health sec Economist as chancellor Diplomat as foreign sec Lawyer as justice sec Ex-military as defence Police or some sort of security officer or border force or immigration lawyer as home sec I bet that would help make a better government. Gove is one of the most hated education and justice ministers ever by people in those fields. Why did he ever have those jobs when he knows nothing about the areas? It doesn’t always work of course - Suella Braverman was an appalling Attorney General proven by the fact her legal analysis was often so wrong in the face of judicial reviews of government laws and policy (usually because she ignored the government lawyers advising her otherwise). It's a tough one that. I think you might struggle to find enough people with the knowledge and experience necessary. The people who really know what's going on are the civil servants, they're the ones who've often been in the role for years and know how government works and where spending will or won't make a difference. Unfortunately, the politicians often seem to ignore their advice because it doesn't suit their political agenda, or those of the people they need to have on side, such as the press barons. With the consequences we've seen over the last seven years or so.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 21, 2022 6:23:33 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 21, 2022 6:28:03 GMT
My view...is that Jacob's view has substantially altered all of a sudden....
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