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Post by lordb on Oct 19, 2022 17:12:28 GMT
Winter of discontent before my time really Is this more chaotic? Throw in the situation in Ukraine, real threat of nuclear war, covid bollocks and the general global chaos, its hard to think of a time in recent memory where so much madness has unfolded before our eyes. The only semblance of normality is us failing to win three on the bounce and losing at home to a totally garbage Rotherham side 😊 1989 was rapid & chaotic but very different
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 19, 2022 17:15:40 GMT
Throw in the situation in Ukraine, real threat of nuclear war, covid bollocks and the general global chaos, its hard to think of a time in recent memory where so much madness has unfolded before our eyes. The only semblance of normality is us failing to win three on the bounce and losing at home to a totally garbage Rotherham side 😊 1989 was rapid & chaotic but very different Were we still losing at home to crap teams? 😉
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Post by maninasuitcase on Oct 19, 2022 17:18:18 GMT
So much for being one of the wealthiest nations on earth.
We are bankrupt and will be a third world nation the way we are going.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 19, 2022 17:20:34 GMT
So much for being one of the wealthiest nations on earth. We are bankrupt and will be a third world nation the way we are going. We’ll be on The Donald’s list of “shithole” countries before long
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 19, 2022 17:25:16 GMT
So much for being one of the wealthiest nations on earth. We are bankrupt and will be a third world nation the way we are going. Currently in Podgorica and I kid you not, the Montenegrin news has Liz Truss and the UK political turmoil as a headline. We've become a total joke. Frightening and uncertain times ahead for our great nation.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 19, 2022 17:27:03 GMT
Most of John Major's government was sleaze ridden and, as a consequence, resignations were a regular and damaging occurrence, but this is about as chaotic and shambolic as it gets.
I find myself wondering why the government actually bothers carrying on. Yes, a general election now would be catastrophic, but will it be any better in 18 months time? Do they really think the public will forget all the mess, chaos, lying, policy u-turns etc.
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Post by wannabee on Oct 19, 2022 17:29:08 GMT
I don't think he's on the left of the party. He's what we used to call a 'Responsible Conservative.' Yes, he's always wanted to privatize the NHS but that's nothing new. The Tories didn't want it in the first place and they've never funded it properly when they've been in power. But that was still 'Responsible Conservatism'. But what's happening now is that this Tufton Street mob are an entirely different entity, even more neoliberal than even the ERG, which is the extreme right-wing of the Tory Party. 100's of Tories are likely to lose their seats (and therefore their power) if Truss and Kwarteng continued with their Tufton Street ideology and I reckon they've put a middle-of-the-road 'Responsible Conservative' in charge to try and steady the ship. I don't think it will work but it might limit the damage that would have happened had they not reigned in Truss and Kwarteng. That's what I think anyway. But as Paul has been saying, it's damned strange that Hunt has been imposed on Truss. But it does show what a weak front she was for this damned Tufton Street mob. OS. I think your comment on the NHS are not correct. After the war, everyone recognised the value of having a national health service and Beveridge a Liberal drew up a plan. The difference in views was how it should be organised. The socialist Labour government, who were busy nationalising industries wanted a nationalised health service. GPs, local authorities, Tories, and others wanted a more delegated service controlled by local authorities in a similar manner to the then education authorities. We finished up with a compromise and today the largest employer in Europe. Only the armed forces of US, India, Russia, and China, the railways of China and India, and worldwide companies like Amazon and McDonald's are bigger employers. As a former manager in the nationalised steel industry, my view is businesses can be so large than they become unmanageable and like dinosaurs, failing to keep competitive and efficient. That is not to say they should not be properly regulated as clearly the water companies aren't. The bigger an organisation and the longer the communication chains the less effectively it functions. That is why ICI was split up, the German chemical industry was split up, etc.I agree that we can learn from other countries, but we should not be mislead by what much smaller countries do necessarily, as it is easier to manage smaller organisations. Larger countries would be a better guide, having said that I once had a dreadful experience in Paris when taken ill, so I would not recommend the French health service model. Germany and Japan are superb organisers and administrators, would we undisciplined British be capable of doing what they do? I'm running out of ideas! www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cabinetpapers/alevelstudies/origins-nhs.htm#:~:text=Despite%20the%20apparent%20consensus%2C%20opposition,government%20taking%20control%20of%20hospitals. That is Poppycok. The essential reason ICI and I G Fargen were broken up was because they were engaged in many different but not synergistic industries The NHS has a common UK Mandate to deliver Medical Care. The biggest impediment to NHS delivery is that it is underfunded compared to Peer Countries resulting in expectations not being Met. I fully accept the management structures should be improved The care provided at each location should also be rationalised with specialist centres of excellence regionally Its just not possible to provide world leading medical interventions at each hospital The problem you always run into of course is Nibyism and local opposition to closing services so you get mediocre treatment Of course you also need an excellent Ambulance Service to support (I wouldn't be averse to see this spun off, in Public Hands) Incidentally ICI became ripe for Break-up when Conservative Corporate Raider Lord Hanson launched his ultimately unsuccessful bid to buy ICI. His usual business tactics was a leveraged buyout making use of Pension Funds followed by large scale redundancies and asset stripping. Hansons unsuccessful bid opened Pandora's Box to Foreign Vultures. ICI's Financial Problems commenced with the demise of UK Manufacturing a very important market.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 19, 2022 17:30:45 GMT
Most of John Major's government was sleaze ridden and, as a consequence, resignations were a regular and damaging occurrence, but this is about as chaotic and shambolic as it gets. I find myself wondering why the government actually bothers carrying on. Yes, a general election now would be catastrophic, but will it be any better in 18 months time? Do they really think the public will forget all the mess, chaos, lying, policy u-turns etc. If they had any strategic nouse about them they'd call an election now, let Starmer deal with the mess (which he won't be able to) and rebuild. They have zero strategic nouse. In fairness mind, they'd all lose their jobs so I kind of understanding wanting another 2x years of 80k a year while dusting off their CVs.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 19, 2022 17:33:52 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 19, 2022 17:35:02 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 19, 2022 17:35:56 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 19, 2022 17:45:20 GMT
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Post by wannabee on Oct 19, 2022 17:46:54 GMT
Is he actually more fiscally responsible? In his leadership bid Hunt went further than the Truss proposal to keep Corporation Tax at 19% he proposed reducing to 15%, if I remember rightly, which would have caused a bigger funding gap than the removal of the 45% Income tax rate. This is actually the point isn't it about his mysterious appointment? Not only is he now posturing diametrically opposed to Truss but he seems to be saying things on tax he hasn't historically believed true. The only key credentials he has for this job are being involved in Austerity 1.0 not being Boris and not being a Truss acolyte. Not only is his ascendancy a mystery but so is his message. If we throw Braverman now into the mix there seems to be a purge on far right cabinet members but also fiscal views. Yet no one can see who is making these decisions. It isn't Truss for sure. This is spot on and in addition during his 17 years in Parliament has never held a Government or Shadow Post in Treasury He started his career Teaching English in Japan (he's big in Japan) followed by a succession of failed start-ups on his return to Blighty
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Post by cheadlepotter on Oct 19, 2022 17:47:14 GMT
My god I’ve just liked a post by hudsongod. The world really has gone to shit.
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Post by fullmetaljacket on Oct 19, 2022 17:55:50 GMT
If it wasn't so serious it would be fucking funny.
You couldn't write this shit at the minute. Get them gone.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 19, 2022 17:58:48 GMT
Is it too much to hope that a spark of decency lies within the Tory party ?? I’m going to switch on GB News they will be apoplectic 😀😀 Wait till tomorrow at 7pm. Live from the GB News pub, Talking Pints with Big Nige. Don’t miss it😉 There is a huge opportunity for Farage now. Question is, does he want it? He's hinted earlier this week he'd take on the Tories again but hard to know how serious he'd be about taking over say the Reform Party and going again. There would be a big market for it.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 19, 2022 18:02:04 GMT
Wait till tomorrow at 7pm. Live from the GB News pub, Talking Pints with Big Nige. Don’t miss it😉 There is a huge opportunity for Farage now. Question is, does he want it? He's hinted earlier this week he'd take on the Tories again but hard to know how serious he'd be about taking over say the Reform Party and going again. There would be a big market for it. The only bloke with the intelligence and backbone to make a difference. The lefties hate him but you can’t deny he gets things done and talks common sense on a lot of things. Not all of course😉
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Post by noustie on Oct 19, 2022 18:03:45 GMT
If it wasn't so serious it would be fucking funny. You couldn't write this shit at the minute. Get them gone. At this rate it would be breaking news across the networks if they collectively managed to go a full hour without fucking up.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 19, 2022 18:04:59 GMT
There is a huge opportunity for Farage now. Question is, does he want it? He's hinted earlier this week he'd take on the Tories again but hard to know how serious he'd be about taking over say the Reform Party and going again. There would be a big market for it. The only bloke with the intelligence and backbone to make a difference. The lefties hate him but you can’t deny he gets things done and talks common sense on a lot of things. Not all of course😉 I'd go as far to say he's just about the only out and out right wing politician that the left are scared of.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Oct 19, 2022 18:06:35 GMT
Laughable🙄
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 19, 2022 18:09:23 GMT
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Oct 19, 2022 18:09:59 GMT
There is a huge opportunity for Farage now. Question is, does he want it? He's hinted earlier this week he'd take on the Tories again but hard to know how serious he'd be about taking over say the Reform Party and going again. There would be a big market for it. The only bloke with the intelligence and backbone to make a difference. The lefties hate him but you can’t deny he gets things done and talks common sense on a lot of things. Not all of course😉 Backbone? He hadn't even got the backbone to stand for his own party in the last election. Mind you having been dicked seven times out of seven - not even being able to get elected in the rabidly xenophobic heartland of Essex - you can possibly understand why. Btw - for a bloke who 'can't abide politics' you don't half spend a lot of time on this thread😉
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 19, 2022 18:11:31 GMT
Jesus wept, another u-turn. I wonder how many will vote not even knowing about the change?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 19, 2022 18:12:22 GMT
The only bloke with the intelligence and backbone to make a difference. The lefties hate him but you can’t deny he gets things done and talks common sense on a lot of things. Not all of course😉 Backbone? He hadn't even got the backbone to stand for his own party in the last election. Mind you having been dicked seven times out of seven - not even being able to get elected in the rabidly xenophobic heartland of Essex - you can possibly understand why. Btw - for a bloke who 'can't abide politics' you don't half spend a lot of time on this thread😉 No I don’t. Have a look, I come and wind you wokies up now and again😉
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Oct 19, 2022 18:14:56 GMT
Jesus wept, another u-turn. I wonder how many will vote not even knowing about the change? Its absolutely scandalous Paul
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 19, 2022 18:15:39 GMT
Chief whip resigned just now. Utter chaos.
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Post by FullerMagic on Oct 19, 2022 18:16:11 GMT
Now the Chief Whip's resigned
lol
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Post by FullerMagic on Oct 19, 2022 18:17:42 GMT
And the Deputy Chief Whip too
Farcical
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 19, 2022 18:18:31 GMT
I'll be astonished if she's still PM by the morning.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 19, 2022 18:18:52 GMT
Jesus wept, another u-turn. I wonder how many will vote not even knowing about the change? Its absolutely scandalous Paul If you turn the vote into a confidence motion and then have to withdraw that instruction to your MP's for fear of a lack of compliance, then surely you have been given a vote of no confidence?
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