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Post by Davef on Jun 2, 2023 9:15:56 GMT
I'm not surprised, especially trying to understand some of the indecipherable nonsense on this forum at times. Have you ever tried reading one of Benjamin Biscuit's posts without sounding like a 9 year old in your head?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 2, 2023 9:50:37 GMT
Tick tock....
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 2, 2023 9:59:08 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 2, 2023 10:21:28 GMT
Everything post 2021
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jun 2, 2023 11:49:59 GMT
I'm not surprised, especially trying to understand some of the indecipherable nonsense on this forum at times. Have you ever tried reading one of Benjamin Biscuit's posts without sounding like a 9 year old in your head? Harsh on 9 year olds…
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2023 12:05:03 GMT
Just blatantly lying or as thick as mince and didn't understand what the referendum was actually about?
In this case, I think I'm going with the latter ...
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 2, 2023 12:08:11 GMT
Just blatantly lying or as thick as mince and didn't understand what the referendum was actually about? In this case, I think I'm going with the latter ... A dreadful human being.
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Post by Davef on Jun 2, 2023 12:49:52 GMT
Just blatantly lying or as thick as mince and didn't understand what the referendum was actually about? In this case, I think I'm going with the latter ... She might as well have said that millions voted to withdraw from the Eurovision Song Contest*, to pull British clubs out of the Champions and Europa League and to stop British and Irish golfers competing in the Ryder Cup. * Millions probably would do this!
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jun 2, 2023 13:09:26 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 2, 2023 13:14:51 GMT
Socialist - Someone I disagree with Communist - someone I disagree with Marxist - someone I disagree with Virtue Signaller - someone I disagree with Woke - someone I disagree with
And so on and so forth...............
Fuck me these Brendan O'Neill types are tedious beyond belief.
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Post by gawa on Jun 2, 2023 13:25:27 GMT
Well we know how this is going to unfold.
> Don't post about the government or anything related to the government. > Make a post about people I disagree with labelling them as using these words for these reasons. Because I disagree with them. > Let everyone see the irony in me making a post about "lefties (or is it wokies?) all use these words when they mean this" while I'm labelling everyone I disagree with and suggesting they use these words and think this way because I disagree with them. > Eventually someone will bite the bait and discussion will go off topic. > The debate won't be much of a debate. It will just be pointless tripe back and forth and mostly filled with "I didn't say/imply this" and in all not saying a whole lot of anything. > If all goes well the "Caring sharing liberal left are so nasty" line can be pulled out. > A dopamine rush may soon follow while likes are received from the same individuals which like said post every time. > The fact someone is going out of their way to try and instigate an argument will be ignored as usual. > End of discussion
> Wait 2 more days. > Repeat above process. > Feel proud that "I showed them lefties up for what they actually are"
> "Wokie Lefties" in mean time continue their discussion about the government in the government thread. > No references to gammon or righties or other slurs to try and instigate fights. > Nope just people discussing government policies and scandal which affect every day working people.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jun 2, 2023 13:25:59 GMT
Socialist - Someone I disagree with Communist - someone I disagree with Marxist - someone I disagree with Virtue Signaller - someone I disagree with Woke - someone I disagree with And so on and so forth............... Fuck me these Brendan O'Neill types are tedious beyond belief. Traditional forms of socialism, communism and marxism have far more in common with modern day socially Conservative voters across huge swathes of northern England than modern day "liberals" like Sunak, Starmer and Ed Davey. Would you not agree? Also, lighten up a bit. The thread needs lightening up.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jun 2, 2023 13:33:50 GMT
Well we know how this is going to unfold. > Don't post about the government or anything related to the government. > Make a post about people I disagree with labelling them as using these words for these reasons. Because I disagree with them. > Let everyone see the irony in me making a post about "lefties (or is it wokies?) all use these words when they mean this" while I'm labelling everyone I disagree with and suggesting they use these words and think this way because I disagree with them. > Eventually someone will bite the bait and discussion will go off topic. > The debate won't be much of a debate. It will just be pointless tripe back and forth and mostly filled with "I didn't say/imply this" and in all not saying a whole lot of anything. > If all goes well the "Caring sharing liberal left are so nasty" line can be pulled out. > A dopamine rush may soon follow while likes are received from the same individuals which like said post every time. > The fact someone is going out of their way to try and instigate an argument will be ignored as usual. > End of discussion > Wait 2 more days. > Repeat above process. > Feel proud that "I showed them lefties up for what they actually are" > "Wokie Lefties" in mean time continue their discussion about the government in the government thread. > No references to gammon or righties or other slurs to try and instigate fights. > Nope just people discussing government policies and scandal which affect every day working people. Translates as "how dare posters who don't subscribe to our Liberal left dominated debate come into our thread and start mocking our language!!". You don't seem particularly arsed about the majority of working Brits who are having their lives disrupted by middle class eco zealots like just stop oil protestors. Yet you constantly refer to the your support for the working people. Where is the consistency?
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Post by gawa on Jun 2, 2023 13:39:39 GMT
Just to add.
For the sake of balance I think some of the personal abuse you have received is completely wrong scfcbiancorossi. But I do think as well you try to instigate arguments at time. And so do I too with some of the stuff I post.
I guess for me it's just that every conversation tends to follow the same path now so it gets very boring to see the same drama played on repeat every few days as if I have deja vu.
Happy to talk about government stuff as always:
- The covid enquiry and refusal to disclose texts (I actually thought you'd be more vocal on this) - The labour MP suspended for sexual misconduct - The ongoing Teeside dispute in relation to the freeport - Immigration stuff which has come up recently such as the change relating to family of university students
But I just think your other post is more likely to invoke some form of argument rather than for a proper discussion. With that said though maybe I'm just completely reading the room wrong and I've taken you up incorrectly. If so I'm sorry. I already feel quite bad hench making this post because I'm worried I have taken you up wrong.
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Post by gawa on Jun 2, 2023 13:45:13 GMT
Well we know how this is going to unfold. > Don't post about the government or anything related to the government. > Make a post about people I disagree with labelling them as using these words for these reasons. Because I disagree with them. > Let everyone see the irony in me making a post about "lefties (or is it wokies?) all use these words when they mean this" while I'm labelling everyone I disagree with and suggesting they use these words and think this way because I disagree with them. > Eventually someone will bite the bait and discussion will go off topic. > The debate won't be much of a debate. It will just be pointless tripe back and forth and mostly filled with "I didn't say/imply this" and in all not saying a whole lot of anything. > If all goes well the "Caring sharing liberal left are so nasty" line can be pulled out. > A dopamine rush may soon follow while likes are received from the same individuals which like said post every time. > The fact someone is going out of their way to try and instigate an argument will be ignored as usual. > End of discussion > Wait 2 more days. > Repeat above process. > Feel proud that "I showed them lefties up for what they actually are" > "Wokie Lefties" in mean time continue their discussion about the government in the government thread. > No references to gammon or righties or other slurs to try and instigate fights. > Nope just people discussing government policies and scandal which affect every day working people. Translates as "how dare posters who don't subscribe to our Liberal left dominated debate come into our thread and start mocking our language!!". You don't seem particularly arsed about the majority of working Brits who are having their lives disrupted by middle class eco zealots like just stop oil protestors. Yet you constantly refer to the your support for the working people. Where is the consistency? Have a search for those words in the thread and show me the recent examples of where we refer to the right wing as any of those terms. What I will tell you though is that on nearly every page of "its ok to not be ok" thread is filled with slurs directed towards people who are on the other side of the political divide. And that is in a thread which has no relevance to politics at all. Alot of it is in jest so I find it funny but the point is more that the language is used and used to describe "lefties" on this board. I honestly don't see these slurs you've highlighted in your tweet being used here regularly to describe right wing people. And if they are used they're used by particular individuals. Not every left leaning individual. As for just stop oil protestors and my consistency. See below: If you'd typed this on your mobile it would have said 'via mobile'. It doesn't. I call bullshit on that part. Guilty! 😜 On a serious note though there does need to be more done about all this. While it doesn't affect me day to day or bother me it doesn't mean it doesn't annoy others. Don't agree with violence but I don't think these protests help them with their message either as it rubs people up the wrong way. They should do more to target the big oil companies and disrupt them rather than working people in my opinion. Go to the shell and BP offices and sit outside the car park or chain yourself to their premises and impact their day to day running.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jun 2, 2023 14:00:01 GMT
Just to add. For the sake of balance I think some of the personal abuse you have received is completely wrong scfcbiancorossi. But I do think as well you try to instigate arguments at time. And so do I too with some of the stuff I post. I guess for me it's just that every conversation tends to follow the same path now so it gets very boring to see the same drama played on repeat every few days as if I have deja vu. Happy to talk about government stuff as always: - The covid enquiry and refusal to disclose texts (I actually thought you'd be more vocal on this) - The labour MP suspended for sexual misconduct - The ongoing Teeside dispute in relation to the freeport - Immigration stuff which has come up recently such as the change relating to family of university students But I just think your other post is more likely to invoke some form of argument rather than for a proper discussion. With that said though maybe I'm just completely reading the room wrong and I've taken you up incorrectly. If so I'm sorry. I already feel quite bad hench making this post because I'm worried I have taken you up wrong. Well that's a thoughtful and respectful post. Appreciated. The witch hunts on here from a selection of posters have become somewhat comical, increasingly aggressive and somewhat personal. To the point that I know for a fact there are countless right of centre posters who are genuinely afraid of posting on here, which is appalling. But I think a lot of the anger, hostility and hate we see on here from the "so called" left of this messageboard (which isn't just aimed at me I should add) is pretty reflective of what we are seeing in real life from the modern day Liberal. Very different to an actual Liberal. I mean just look at the incident in the Oxford union this week. That is the state of the left of this country right now...A wealthy, privileged, white student quite literally chaining herself to the floor, insisting on banning a debate of someone she didn't like, all while denying basic biology. A very different left to what we had in years gone by. It's become a disturbingly authoritarian movement which is absolutely determined to shut everything and everyone down that dares to oppose them or question their mainstream way of thinking. Many fantastic left wing historical figures would be turning in their graves at what the modern day British Liberal has become. It has become a little like poking the (very angry) bear, which is much needed on a thread such as this that makes deeply depressing (unhealthily so) reading. You need alternative opinion and a bit of light hearted banter.. Anything else is just pointless. I know you are always open to a friendly, polite debate Gawa, it's a good trait. 😊
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jun 2, 2023 14:13:51 GMT
Translates as "how dare posters who don't subscribe to our Liberal left dominated debate come into our thread and start mocking our language!!". You don't seem particularly arsed about the majority of working Brits who are having their lives disrupted by middle class eco zealots like just stop oil protestors. Yet you constantly refer to the your support for the working people. Where is the consistency? Have a search for those words in the thread and show me the recent examples of where we refer to the right wing as any of those terms. What I will tell you though is that on nearly every page of "its ok to not be ok" thread is filled with slurs directed towards people who are on the other side of the political divide. And that is in a thread which has no relevance to politics at all. Alot of it is in jest so I find it funny but the point is more that the language is used and used to describe "lefties" on this board. I honestly don't see these slurs you've highlighted in your tweet being used here regularly to describe right wing people. And if they are used they're used by particular individuals. Not every left leaning individual. As for just stop oil protestors and my consistency. See below: Guilty! 😜 On a serious note though there does need to be more done about all this. While it doesn't affect me day to day or bother me it doesn't mean it doesn't annoy others. Don't agree with violence but I don't think these protests help them with their message either as it rubs people up the wrong way. They should do more to target the big oil companies and disrupt them rather than working people in my opinion. Go to the shell and BP offices and sit outside the car park or chain yourself to their premises and impact their day to day running. You are right and I liked that post of yours so I should know! My apologies. It is a shame so many others who profess to support working people, in practice, rarely do. We often see that in these kinds of protestors, the condescending language they use towards those outside the London bubble and the disturbingly authoritarian stance this side of the debate took during the pandemic. All deeply damaging and hurtful towards those who just want to get out there and earn a living.
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Post by gawa on Jun 2, 2023 14:22:38 GMT
Just to add. For the sake of balance I think some of the personal abuse you have received is completely wrong scfcbiancorossi. But I do think as well you try to instigate arguments at time. And so do I too with some of the stuff I post. I guess for me it's just that every conversation tends to follow the same path now so it gets very boring to see the same drama played on repeat every few days as if I have deja vu. Happy to talk about government stuff as always: - The covid enquiry and refusal to disclose texts (I actually thought you'd be more vocal on this) - The labour MP suspended for sexual misconduct - The ongoing Teeside dispute in relation to the freeport - Immigration stuff which has come up recently such as the change relating to family of university students But I just think your other post is more likely to invoke some form of argument rather than for a proper discussion. With that said though maybe I'm just completely reading the room wrong and I've taken you up incorrectly. If so I'm sorry. I already feel quite bad hench making this post because I'm worried I have taken you up wrong. Well that's a thoughtful and respectful post. Appreciated. The witch hunts on here from a selection of posters have become somewhat comical, increasingly aggressive and somewhat personal. To the point that I know for a fact there are countless right of centre posters who are genuinely afraid of posting on here, which is appalling. But I think a lot of the anger, hostility and hate we see on here from the "so called" left of this messageboard (which isn't just aimed at me I should add) is pretty reflective of what we are seeing in real life from the modern day Liberal. Very different to an actual Liberal. I mean just look at the incident in the Oxford union this week. That is the state of the left of this country right now...A wealthy, privileged, white student quite literally chaining herself to the floor, insisting on banning a debate of someone she didn't like, all while denying basic biology. A very different left to what we had in years gone by. It's become a disturbingly authoritarian movement which is absolutely determined to shut everything and everyone down that dares to oppose them or question their mainstream way of thinking. Many fantastic left wing historical figures would be turning in their graves at what the modern day British Liberal has become. It has become a little like poking the (very angry) bear, which is much needed on a thread such as this that makes deeply depressing (unhealthily so) reading. You need alternative opinion and a bit of light hearted banter.. Anything else is just pointless. I know you are always open to a friendly, polite debate Gawa, it's a good trait. 😊 Like again just to emphasize I can be a dick and you know that. But after my initial rage I usually calm down I am a gemini and we are known for being two faced so maybe this is why Also this point here "To the point that I know for a fact there are countless right of centre posters who are genuinely afraid of posting on here, which is appalling." I think that is disgraceful and I welcome more posts from people with different views as that's what makes it interesting. Believe it or not I got perm banned from another football forum which was a left wing echo chamber for saying they are politically intolerant of other views. I think there's hate on both sides and I think there's more so a lack of understanding too. A bit like my initial responses to your posts in this thread where I have went off on a rant saying I don't think your post is genuine. Because in my head I'm remembering previous altercations a few days ago and I'm focusing on that. But maybe it is/was genuine and if it's something you feel passionate about and that you think happens regularly then you should be able to voice it. Yeah it isn't about the government but it's about politics and this is the closest thread to it. What is the Oxford Union thing? I don't think I've seen it if I'm completely honest with you. Something about gender I guess? I think again you are completely right about it being a different left. And I'd say the same about the right wing too. Albeit the more extreme for both wings. And that is a shame for me because nothing can be achieved when you have 2 groups with polar opposite views constantly opposing one another. There's a real lack of compromise or anyone trying to find common ground or an understanding. But I like that we can find common ground at times like this which is progress even though we're both cunts when we want to be I hope with time you might see we aren't all like the modern left which is regularly reported in the news. Just like I hope other members on here will see not everyone who considers themselves to be right wing is some mad extremist either. I've said many times before I'm not a big climate change, trans rights, pronoun loving, open the borders for all leftie. But I'm not particularly opposed to all of that either, but they're just not that important for me compared to some other left wing things. Unfortunately though what we see on the tv is the vocal minority from both groups rather than the middle ground. For instance this was Ken Clarke (former tory chancellor) on Question Time a few months ago and I thought he spoke very well on immigration: Compare that to the crap which someone like Suella Braverman spouts and you can see that it's just went to shit. And I'm sure the same can be said for some of the left too. Well I like having more views here and being able to debate with people who think differently. I'll say stuff out of hand alot but as long as we/I can recognise it and hold our hands up then it's alot more exciting than an echo chamber where I just like all of huddys tweets Pleased that we can agree to disagree anyway. And again sorry if I annoyed you. I think it's time for me to walk the dog now and get some air.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 2, 2023 14:33:45 GMT
Just to add. For the sake of balance I think some of the personal abuse you have received is completely wrong scfcbiancorossi. But I do think as well you try to instigate arguments at time. And so do I too with some of the stuff I post. I guess for me it's just that every conversation tends to follow the same path now so it gets very boring to see the same drama played on repeat every few days as if I have deja vu. Happy to talk about government stuff as always: - The covid enquiry and refusal to disclose texts (I actually thought you'd be more vocal on this) - The labour MP suspended for sexual misconduct - The ongoing Teeside dispute in relation to the freeport - Immigration stuff which has come up recently such as the change relating to family of university students But I just think your other post is more likely to invoke some form of argument rather than for a proper discussion. With that said though maybe I'm just completely reading the room wrong and I've taken you up incorrectly. If so I'm sorry. I already feel quite bad hench making this post because I'm worried I have taken you up wrong. Well that's a thoughtful and respectful post. Appreciated. The witch hunts on here from a selection of posters have become somewhat comical, increasingly aggressive and somewhat personal. To the point that I know for a fact there are countless right of centre posters who are genuinely afraid of posting on here, which is appalling. But I think a lot of the anger, hostility and hate we see on here from the "so called" left of this messageboard (which isn't just aimed at me I should add) is pretty reflective of what we are seeing in real life from the modern day Liberal. Very different to an actual Liberal. I mean just look at the incident in the Oxford union this week. That is the state of the left of this country right now...A wealthy, privileged, white student quite literally chaining herself to the floor, insisting on banning a debate of someone she didn't like, all while denying basic biology. A very different left to what we had in years gone by. It's become a disturbingly authoritarian movement which is absolutely determined to shut everything and everyone down that dares to oppose them or question their mainstream way of thinking. Many fantastic left wing historical figures would be turning in their graves at what the modern day British Liberal has become. It has become a little like poking the (very angry) bear, which is much needed on a thread such as this that makes deeply depressing (unhealthily so) reading. You need alternative opinion and a bit of light hearted banter.. Anything else is just pointless. I know you are always open to a friendly, polite debate Gawa, it's a good trait. 😊 Hmmm, well, that's a rather convenient, if unsurprising, self-affirmative way of looking at things! Can I be tongue-in-cheek to start with and say that if there are right of centre posters who are "genuinely afraid of posting" then they should "man up", "be less of a snowflake" etc etc. I'm taking the piss, of course, but such language was and is not uncommon from just such a political direction on numerous occasions. To decide that "anger, hostility and hate" are particularly "liberal" traits is simply not the case. There is a reason why "gammon" is attached to one particular political direction and it's not "liberals". That's not to say that some of the people you highlight aren't equally capable of indignant intolerance of course. But that was just poking some light-hearted piss-takes your way. On a more serious note, if you're going to advocate violence against people whose forms of protest you disagree with, and endorse/support people who threaten to run protestors over etc, you should probably expect some fairly robust responses! Not from me I have to say. I agree with gawa, you do seem more of a WUM than anything else! But, that said, you seem to want to use these responses to justify your assumption that the "modern day Liberal" is filled with "anger, hostility and hate", whereas, if anything, I'd characterise the advocation of violence as being more indicative of those things. I think you're justifying your own assumptions. It's much more likely that the responses to you are simply because advocating violence is a bit of a shitty thing to do all round. After all, a bunch of "unacceptable protestors" that need a good kicking could be you one day, if and when the right cause comes around: the next lockdown, for example. That's not to say I agree with Just Stop Oil protestors' tactics before you go down the usual route of strawmanning what I'm saying, but with regard to treating violence against protestors as acceptable you should be careful what you wish for.
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Post by gawa on Jun 2, 2023 14:57:40 GMT
Have a search for those words in the thread and show me the recent examples of where we refer to the right wing as any of those terms. What I will tell you though is that on nearly every page of "its ok to not be ok" thread is filled with slurs directed towards people who are on the other side of the political divide. And that is in a thread which has no relevance to politics at all. Alot of it is in jest so I find it funny but the point is more that the language is used and used to describe "lefties" on this board. I honestly don't see these slurs you've highlighted in your tweet being used here regularly to describe right wing people. And if they are used they're used by particular individuals. Not every left leaning individual. As for just stop oil protestors and my consistency. See below: You are right and I liked that post of yours so I should know! My apologies. It is a shame so many others who profess to support working people, in practice, rarely do. We often see that in these kinds of protestors, the condescending language they use towards those outside the London bubble and the disturbingly authoritarian stance this side of the debate took during the pandemic. All deeply damaging and hurtful towards those who just want to get out there and earn a living. It's difficult for me to get frustrated with just stop oil protestors because they've not impacted my life. Just like immigration doesn't particularly bother me because where I live now we don't really have the problems some describe in England. The same goes for non binary and trans stuff too. I'm not too passionate or vocal about it because it doesn't impact me. And maybe that's the wrong way to look at things but it's why it doesn't reallt get me annoyed. I can recognise it annoys other people though and I think it's becoming counter productive because it's just winding people up and doing the opposite of getting support. Lockdowns are an interesting one though and I think you raise a good point there. My counter argument to left wing people generally agreeing more with authoritian lock downs Would be why are so many people who are right wing and were opposed to lock downs also supportive of (or at least not vocalising any opposition) towards other authorian measures introduced by the government. For me I was supportive of lockdowns for a few reasons: - I got to work from home and I'd just returned to work from being off with mental health. So selfishly it was a god send. - It was done at a global scale and given how the west/east don't get on. I just thought that if it is a conspiracy of some sort, why aren't Russia or another country taking advantage of this. Why aren't they calling it out and highlighting what the west are doing. Surely that would be beneficial for them? So I couldn't get my head around that. - My neighbours mum was one of the first people to die from it in Northern Ireland so this added to the realness for me compared to others. - It didn't negatively affect me like it did others. Maybe if I was a regular gym goer, self employed, single, regularly clubbing, in a football team I'd think different. But I quite enjoyed things being shut and it suited me. But maybe I was wrong. And having seen some of matt Hancocks whatsapps, the redistribution of wealth, increase in deaths, the government refusing to hand over texts to the enquiry. Maybe there was more going on, maybe it was all a massive scamdemic. I don't know. But I'm not against it being talked about and if anything I do think people's concerns should be taken seriously and answered as best they can. If I'm wrong it's also a bit shit because I'm vaccinated and I guess sub consciously I dont want to be wrong. Because you feel a bit of an eejit if it is a scam and you've injected yourself with God knows what. And maybe that's why I'm not so hyper focused on covid because for me it's done now and I can't change what's been done. But I'm not for silencing anyone and I think respectfully people should be able to say their piece. It does wind me up slightly when people who are anti vax try to boast about it or make out the rest of us are idiots. But again it is what it is. I've made posts like that about brexit so if you can give it you have to take it. But yeh I think deep down people don't want to be wrong and that's the honest answer from the bottom of my heart. And with the greatest respect, that's one of the things where I think you slightly contradict yourself too. As you are very vocal about your thoughts on covid and lock down. But over the last week a hot topic has been the covid enquiry and th government refusing to had over the requested WhatsApp messages in relation to that time. For me it felt like you were no longer interested or critical of covid and were more interested in discussing other subjects. And I'd have thought someone who is so critical of the government's approach during covid would also have been more critical of them seemingly trying to avoid handing over the evidence. Again I don't mean that in an offensive way or as a gotcha so don't get defensive. It could well be that you've not seen the stories or that you just felt you had nothing extra to add.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jun 2, 2023 16:01:14 GMT
Well that's a thoughtful and respectful post. Appreciated. The witch hunts on here from a selection of posters have become somewhat comical, increasingly aggressive and somewhat personal. To the point that I know for a fact there are countless right of centre posters who are genuinely afraid of posting on here, which is appalling. But I think a lot of the anger, hostility and hate we see on here from the "so called" left of this messageboard (which isn't just aimed at me I should add) is pretty reflective of what we are seeing in real life from the modern day Liberal. Very different to an actual Liberal. I mean just look at the incident in the Oxford union this week. That is the state of the left of this country right now...A wealthy, privileged, white student quite literally chaining herself to the floor, insisting on banning a debate of someone she didn't like, all while denying basic biology. A very different left to what we had in years gone by. It's become a disturbingly authoritarian movement which is absolutely determined to shut everything and everyone down that dares to oppose them or question their mainstream way of thinking. Many fantastic left wing historical figures would be turning in their graves at what the modern day British Liberal has become. It has become a little like poking the (very angry) bear, which is much needed on a thread such as this that makes deeply depressing (unhealthily so) reading. You need alternative opinion and a bit of light hearted banter.. Anything else is just pointless. I know you are always open to a friendly, polite debate Gawa, it's a good trait. 😊 Like again just to emphasize I can be a dick and you know that. But after my initial rage I usually calm down I am a gemini and we are known for being two faced so maybe this is why Also this point here "To the point that I know for a fact there are countless right of centre posters who are genuinely afraid of posting on here, which is appalling." I think that is disgraceful and I welcome more posts from people with different views as that's what makes it interesting. Believe it or not I got perm banned from another football forum which was a left wing echo chamber for saying they are politically intolerant of other views. I think there's hate on both sides and I think there's more so a lack of understanding too. A bit like my initial responses to your posts in this thread where I have went off on a rant saying I don't think your post is genuine. Because in my head I'm remembering previous altercations a few days ago and I'm focusing on that. But maybe it is/was genuine and if it's something you feel passionate about and that you think happens regularly then you should be able to voice it. Yeah it isn't about the government but it's about politics and this is the closest thread to it. What is the Oxford Union thing? I don't think I've seen it if I'm completely honest with you. Something about gender I guess? I think again you are completely right about it being a different left. And I'd say the same about the right wing too. Albeit the more extreme for both wings. And that is a shame for me because nothing can be achieved when you have 2 groups with polar opposite views constantly opposing one another. There's a real lack of compromise or anyone trying to find common ground or an understanding. But I like that we can find common ground at times like this which is progress even though we're both cunts when we want to be I hope with time you might see we aren't all like the modern left which is regularly reported in the news. Just like I hope other members on here will see not everyone who considers themselves to be right wing is some mad extremist either. I've said many times before I'm not a big climate change, trans rights, pronoun loving, open the borders for all leftie. But I'm not particularly opposed to all of that either, but they're just not that important for me compared to some other left wing things. Unfortunately though what we see on the tv is the vocal minority from both groups rather than the middle ground. For instance this was Ken Clarke (former tory chancellor) on Question Time a few months ago and I thought he spoke very well on immigration: Compare that to the crap which someone like Suella Braverman spouts and you can see that it's just went to shit. And I'm sure the same can be said for some of the left too. Well I like having more views here and being able to debate with people who think differently. I'll say stuff out of hand alot but as long as we/I can recognise it and hold our hands up then it's alot more exciting than an echo chamber where I just like all of huddys tweets Pleased that we can agree to disagree anyway. And again sorry if I annoyed you. I think it's time for me to walk the dog now and get some air. Absolutely and you are too hard on yourself Gawa! Don't think you're two faced at all. You clearly take a genuine interest in politics (probably far more so than most) and your points are well made. Could not agree more re the "new" right. I despair at this current Conservative government as much as you do and perhaps for different reasons. But I do think modern Conservatism has massively lost its way. The lack of strength in leadership and dishonesty is horrendous and in much the same way as legendary left wing figures, there will be many fantastic Conservative/right wing leaders of the past who are turning in their graves of what this Conservative lite shit show has delivered, or rather, hasn't delivered. Re the Oxford Union incident, link below. www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/protesters-interrupt-talk-at-oxford-union-by-gender-critical-academic-kathleen-stock-12893229
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jun 2, 2023 16:08:52 GMT
Well that's a thoughtful and respectful post. Appreciated. The witch hunts on here from a selection of posters have become somewhat comical, increasingly aggressive and somewhat personal. To the point that I know for a fact there are countless right of centre posters who are genuinely afraid of posting on here, which is appalling. But I think a lot of the anger, hostility and hate we see on here from the "so called" left of this messageboard (which isn't just aimed at me I should add) is pretty reflective of what we are seeing in real life from the modern day Liberal. Very different to an actual Liberal. I mean just look at the incident in the Oxford union this week. That is the state of the left of this country right now...A wealthy, privileged, white student quite literally chaining herself to the floor, insisting on banning a debate of someone she didn't like, all while denying basic biology. A very different left to what we had in years gone by. It's become a disturbingly authoritarian movement which is absolutely determined to shut everything and everyone down that dares to oppose them or question their mainstream way of thinking. Many fantastic left wing historical figures would be turning in their graves at what the modern day British Liberal has become. It has become a little like poking the (very angry) bear, which is much needed on a thread such as this that makes deeply depressing (unhealthily so) reading. You need alternative opinion and a bit of light hearted banter.. Anything else is just pointless. I know you are always open to a friendly, polite debate Gawa, it's a good trait. 😊 Hmmm, well, that's a rather convenient, if unsurprising, self-affirmative way of looking at things! Can I be tongue-in-cheek to start with and say that if there are right of centre posters who are "genuinely afraid of posting" then they should "man up", "be less of a snowflake" etc etc. I'm taking the piss, of course, but such language was and is not uncommon from just such a political direction on numerous occasions. To decide that "anger, hostility and hate" are particularly "liberal" traits is simply not the case. There is a reason why "gammon" is attached to one particular political direction and it's not "liberals". That's not to say that some of the people you highlight aren't equally capable of indignant intolerance of course. But that was just poking some light-hearted piss-takes your way. On a more serious note, if you're going to advocate violence against people whose forms of protest you disagree with, and endorse/support people who threaten to run protestors over etc, you should probably expect some fairly robust responses! Not from me I have to say. I agree with gawa, you do seem more of a WUM than anything else! But, that said, you seem to want to use these responses to justify your assumption that the "modern day Liberal" is filled with "anger, hostility and hate", whereas, if anything, I'd characterise the advocation of violence as being more indicative of those things. I think you're justifying your own assumptions. It's much more likely that the responses to you are simply because advocating violence is a bit of a shitty thing to do all round. After all, a bunch of "unacceptable protestors" that need a good kicking could be you one day, if and when the right cause comes around: the next lockdown, for example. That's not to say I agree with Just Stop Oil protestors' tactics before you go down the usual route of strawmanning what I'm saying, but with regard to treating violence against protestors as acceptable you should be careful what you wish for. I 100% stand by my comments that these protestors should be dealt with severely. They are putting innocent British civilian's lives at risk. How would you feel if a loved one was forced to miss a critical cancer screening appointment or perhaps couldn't see a loved one for the last time because of these self centred scum bags? I think you'd have a very different perspective. It's fine when your own life isn't affected right? Mark my words, there actions will get worse, more divisive and more dangerous. Re posters not feeling like they can post... Whether that makes them "snowflakes" or not, it's a fairly damming indictment of what threads like this have become, is it not?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jun 2, 2023 16:16:21 GMT
You are right and I liked that post of yours so I should know! My apologies. It is a shame so many others who profess to support working people, in practice, rarely do. We often see that in these kinds of protestors, the condescending language they use towards those outside the London bubble and the disturbingly authoritarian stance this side of the debate took during the pandemic. All deeply damaging and hurtful towards those who just want to get out there and earn a living. It's difficult for me to get frustrated with just stop oil protestors because they've not impacted my life. Just like immigration doesn't particularly bother me because where I live now we don't really have the problems some describe in England. The same goes for non binary and trans stuff too. I'm not too passionate or vocal about it because it doesn't impact me. And maybe that's the wrong way to look at things but it's why it doesn't reallt get me annoyed. I can recognise it annoys other people though and I think it's becoming counter productive because it's just winding people up and doing the opposite of getting support. Lockdowns are an interesting one though and I think you raise a good point there. My counter argument to left wing people generally agreeing more with authoritian lock downs Would be why are so many people who are right wing and were opposed to lock downs also supportive of (or at least not vocalising any opposition) towards other authorian measures introduced by the government. For me I was supportive of lockdowns for a few reasons: - I got to work from home and I'd just returned to work from being off with mental health. So selfishly it was a god send. - It was done at a global scale and given how the west/east don't get on. I just thought that if it is a conspiracy of some sort, why aren't Russia or another country taking advantage of this. Why aren't they calling it out and highlighting what the west are doing. Surely that would be beneficial for them? So I couldn't get my head around that. - My neighbours mum was one of the first people to die from it in Northern Ireland so this added to the realness for me compared to others. - It didn't negatively affect me like it did others. Maybe if I was a regular gym goer, self employed, single, regularly clubbing, in a football team I'd think different. But I quite enjoyed things being shut and it suited me. But maybe I was wrong. And having seen some of matt Hancocks whatsapps, the redistribution of wealth, increase in deaths, the government refusing to hand over texts to the enquiry. Maybe there was more going on, maybe it was all a massive scamdemic. I don't know. But I'm not against it being talked about and if anything I do think people's concerns should be taken seriously and answered as best they can. If I'm wrong it's also a bit shit because I'm vaccinated and I guess sub consciously I dont want to be wrong. Because you feel a bit of an eejit if it is a scam and you've injected yourself with God knows what. And maybe that's why I'm not so hyper focused on covid because for me it's done now and I can't change what's been done. But I'm not for silencing anyone and I think respectfully people should be able to say their piece. It does wind me up slightly when people who are anti vax try to boast about it or make out the rest of us are idiots. But again it is what it is. I've made posts like that about brexit so if you can give it you have to take it. But yeh I think deep down people don't want to be wrong and that's the honest answer from the bottom of my heart. And with the greatest respect, that's one of the things where I think you slightly contradict yourself too. As you are very vocal about your thoughts on covid and lock down. But over the last week a hot topic has been the covid enquiry and th government refusing to had over the requested WhatsApp messages in relation to that time. For me it felt like you were no longer interested or critical of covid and were more interested in discussing other subjects. And I'd have thought someone who is so critical of the government's approach during covid would also have been more critical of them seemingly trying to avoid handing over the evidence. Again I don't mean that in an offensive way or as a gotcha so don't get defensive. It could well be that you've not seen the stories or that you just felt you had nothing extra to add. I have seen the stories but I'm just totally apathetic to the inquiry because I know as I suspect all of us know, it will be homework marking by the establishment, no one will get arrested and the collateral damage of covid restrictions will barely get a look in. I'd love to be proven wrong bud. Re anti vax, this was another red herring by the mainstream media. The vast majority of Brits who thought lockdowns were idiotic were not anti vax. Those in favour of covid mandates used to the phrase around as a way of cancelling the debate. I got called anti vax at least 20 times on the Covid thread despite explaining time and time again that I wasn't. I was against vaccine mandates and dumb covid restrictions. Very different 😊 I did in fact take the vaccine, twice!
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 2, 2023 16:20:50 GMT
Hmmm, well, that's a rather convenient, if unsurprising, self-affirmative way of looking at things! Can I be tongue-in-cheek to start with and say that if there are right of centre posters who are "genuinely afraid of posting" then they should "man up", "be less of a snowflake" etc etc. I'm taking the piss, of course, but such language was and is not uncommon from just such a political direction on numerous occasions. To decide that "anger, hostility and hate" are particularly "liberal" traits is simply not the case. There is a reason why "gammon" is attached to one particular political direction and it's not "liberals". That's not to say that some of the people you highlight aren't equally capable of indignant intolerance of course. But that was just poking some light-hearted piss-takes your way. On a more serious note, if you're going to advocate violence against people whose forms of protest you disagree with, and endorse/support people who threaten to run protestors over etc, you should probably expect some fairly robust responses! Not from me I have to say. I agree with gawa, you do seem more of a WUM than anything else! But, that said, you seem to want to use these responses to justify your assumption that the "modern day Liberal" is filled with "anger, hostility and hate", whereas, if anything, I'd characterise the advocation of violence as being more indicative of those things. I think you're justifying your own assumptions. It's much more likely that the responses to you are simply because advocating violence is a bit of a shitty thing to do all round. After all, a bunch of "unacceptable protestors" that need a good kicking could be you one day, if and when the right cause comes around: the next lockdown, for example. That's not to say I agree with Just Stop Oil protestors' tactics before you go down the usual route of strawmanning what I'm saying, but with regard to treating violence against protestors as acceptable you should be careful what you wish for. I 100% stand by my comments that these protestors should be dealt with severely. They are putting innocent British civilian's lives at risk. How would you feel if a loved one was forced to miss a critical cancer screening appointment or perhaps couldn't see a loved one for the last time because of these self centred scum bags? I think you'd have a very different perspective. It's fine when your own life isn't affected right? Mark my words, there actions will get worse, more divisive and more dangerous. Of course you want them dealt with severely, you don't agree with them. How would you react if these were protestors doing the same thing re lockdowns? You'd be calling them heroes and totally justified in their actions, don't try to pretend otherwise! Advocating violence towards people you don't agree with is a very slippery slope. I hope you never find yourself on the receiving end of it one day because you're protesting about something you believe in strongly. Who knows what they'll do next. I don't think it'll make any difference what they do. Our global economic growth model is based on ever greater consumption and so wedded to oil that I doubt anything will change, although the whole thing does have a worryingly Twelve Monkeys vibe about it...
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jun 2, 2023 16:31:42 GMT
I 100% stand by my comments that these protestors should be dealt with severely. They are putting innocent British civilian's lives at risk. How would you feel if a loved one was forced to miss a critical cancer screening appointment or perhaps couldn't see a loved one for the last time because of these self centred scum bags? I think you'd have a very different perspective. It's fine when your own life isn't affected right? Mark my words, there actions will get worse, more divisive and more dangerous. Of course you want them dealt with severely, you don't agree with them. How would you react if these were protestors doing the same thing re lockdowns? You'd be calling them heroes and totally justified in their actions, don't try to pretend otherwise! Advocating violence towards people you don't agree with is a very slippery slope. I hope you never find yourself on the receiving end of it one day because you're protesting about something you believe in strongly. Who knows what they'll do next. I don't think it'll make any difference what they do. Our global economic growth model is based on ever greater consumption and so wedded to oil that I doubt anything will change, although the whole thing does have a worryingly Twelve Monkeys vibe about it... They are literally putting the lives and livelihoods of innocent Brits at risk (for a hugely contested cause) and you are telling me they shouldn't be dealt with severely. Your stance is mystifying.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 2, 2023 18:00:38 GMT
Of course you want them dealt with severely, you don't agree with them. How would you react if these were protestors doing the same thing re lockdowns? You'd be calling them heroes and totally justified in their actions, don't try to pretend otherwise! Advocating violence towards people you don't agree with is a very slippery slope. I hope you never find yourself on the receiving end of it one day because you're protesting about something you believe in strongly. Who knows what they'll do next. I don't think it'll make any difference what they do. Our global economic growth model is based on ever greater consumption and so wedded to oil that I doubt anything will change, although the whole thing does have a worryingly Twelve Monkeys vibe about it... They are literally putting the lives and livelihoods of innocent Brits at risk (for a hugely contested cause) and you are telling me they shouldn't be dealt with severely. Your stance is mystifying. That is a bit of a leap. If they were standing outside of hospitals and preventing entry, I would accept that argument.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 2, 2023 18:03:03 GMT
Socialist - Someone I disagree with Communist - someone I disagree with Marxist - someone I disagree with Virtue Signaller - someone I disagree with Woke - someone I disagree with And so on and so forth............... Fuck me these Brendan O'Neill types are tedious beyond belief. Traditional forms of socialism, communism and marxism have far more in common with modern day socially Conservative voters across huge swathes of northern England than modern day "liberals" like Sunak, Starmer and Ed Davey. Would you not agree? Also, lighten up a bit. The thread needs lightening up. Best of luck with that last bit mate. Big Nige’s swipe at that crusty old buffoon from the European Parliament in 2016 springs to mind. “The personality of a damp rag”.
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Post by Veritas on Jun 2, 2023 18:07:25 GMT
Of course you want them dealt with severely, you don't agree with them. How would you react if these were protestors doing the same thing re lockdowns? You'd be calling them heroes and totally justified in their actions, don't try to pretend otherwise! Advocating violence towards people you don't agree with is a very slippery slope. I hope you never find yourself on the receiving end of it one day because you're protesting about something you believe in strongly. Who knows what they'll do next. I don't think it'll make any difference what they do. Our global economic growth model is based on ever greater consumption and so wedded to oil that I doubt anything will change, although the whole thing does have a worryingly Twelve Monkeys vibe about it... They are literally putting the lives and livelihoods of innocent Brits at risk (for a hugely contested cause) and you are telling me they shouldn't be dealt with severely. Your stance is mystifying. What about the government whose policies have brought the NHS to its knees causing a recruitment crisis thereby impacting on all types of treatment and adversely impacting on lives and livelihoods
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Post by hotterpotter on Jun 2, 2023 18:18:44 GMT
Some recent posts on this thread have restored my faith in humanity. Ok that may be over-egging the pudding rather, but it is nice to hear people being reasonable to each other. It's honestly a surprise to hear people being respectful to others despite opposing views, which makes me realise how this seems to have become an abnormal thing over the past decade.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jun 2, 2023 18:23:35 GMT
They are literally putting the lives and livelihoods of innocent Brits at risk (for a hugely contested cause) and you are telling me they shouldn't be dealt with severely. Your stance is mystifying. What about the government whose policies have brought the NHS to its knees causing a recruitment crisis thereby impacting on all types of treatment and adversely impacting on lives and livelihoods Anyway... Back to the original point..😂
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