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Post by yeswilko on May 20, 2023 18:02:36 GMT
Compensation for dumping shit in our rivers is surely a bit ridiculous by any standard Absolutely but all the same nationalisation without compensation is not realistic A poo quid pro arrangement is needed
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Post by 828492 on May 20, 2023 18:04:25 GMT
And now our Home Secretary, Sue Ellen, qualified barrister, Member of Parliament, tried to get her Speed Awareness Course held in private. Her Civil Servants (aka ‘The Blob’) said that was not possible. Sue Ellen eventually took the 3 points on her licence for speeding rather than mix with mere mortals either in person or on line. Come on, Richi, behave like a normal person. Sack her. She is not fit to hold the office of Home Secretary.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 20, 2023 18:16:44 GMT
They have already made enough money. That’s not an adequate reason and it’s not really how the world works either. So we continue to tolerate the present situation?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 20, 2023 18:17:42 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 20, 2023 19:05:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2023 23:02:27 GMT
That’s not an adequate reason and it’s not really how the world works either. So we continue to tolerate the present situation? I didn’t say that. I don’t think it would be overly good for Britain to just take away a business from someone without compensation. As mentioned above, they could make it so that the group are pretty much forced to sell, which would be a far better look than just outright theft. It would be more reflective of monarchical power than democratic.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 21, 2023 6:24:04 GMT
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Post by andystokey on May 21, 2023 6:46:19 GMT
He's as weak as piss. He had to hire her to appease the far right. Then she stands up at a neo nationalist conference openly challenging him on immigration thats before this latest speeding thing. Dont forget she previously leaked OFF SEN documents and authored and embarrassing leaflet slagging off the civil service. Her racist language is under investigation. Even a line manager in a small business would have just sacked her by now. If he doesn't want to be embarrassed by her in front of the World's media he should grow a pair. He's just a puppet figure head of the far right to con the electorate.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 21, 2023 8:51:21 GMT
He's as weak as piss. He had to hire her to appease the far right. Then she stands up at a neo nationalist conference openly challenging him on immigration thats before this latest speeding thing. Dont forget she previously leaked OFF SEN documents and authored and embarrassing leaflet slagging off the civil service. Her racist language is under investigation. Even a line manager in a small business would have just sacked her by now. If he doesn't want to be embarrassed by her in front of the World's media he should grow a pair. He's just a puppet figure head of the far right to con the electorate. First question for all journalists at the moment should be "Are corruption and sleaze endemic to the Conservative Party, prime minister?"
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Post by 828492 on May 21, 2023 9:05:40 GMT
He's as weak as piss. He had to hire her to appease the far right. Then she stands up at a neo nationalist conference openly challenging him on immigration thats before this latest speeding thing. Dont forget she previously leaked OFF SEN documents and authored and embarrassing leaflet slagging off the civil service. Her racist language is under investigation. Even a line manager in a small business would have just sacked her by now. If he doesn't want to be embarrassed by her in front of the World's media he should grow a pair. He's just a puppet figure head of the far right to con the electorate. At the time of the speeding offence she was Attorney General. She wanted civil servants in the Department of Justice (no doubt part of ‘the Blob’) to enable her to get away with public knowledge of a speeding offence. This is corruption. Corrupt useless nasty tory scumbags. The contempt these Tories show for the country is unbelievable, a bit like the Tories.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 21, 2023 10:33:51 GMT
More barefaced lies...
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Post by elystokie on May 21, 2023 10:49:05 GMT
As someone in the replies says, there's just no accountability with these charlatans, looks like they've given up and are concentrating on what's left in the trough for them personally.
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Post by toppercorner on May 21, 2023 11:01:28 GMT
I only found out recently, she's only 51!!!! wow Still gaslighting the country
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 21, 2023 12:33:54 GMT
Every single member of this cabinet is a serial liar.
It doesn't even cross their minds that they have to have even a semblance of truth in any of the things they say.
We lied to the thick fuckers over Brexit and they swallowed it, so we've now earned the right to lie to them about anything ...
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 21, 2023 14:02:51 GMT
Ridge utterly incredulous at the bollox spewed in front of her!
They. Don't. Give. A. Fuck.
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Post by lordb on May 21, 2023 14:22:19 GMT
Brexit and Johnson spell as PM has led to the Tories beleiving they can lie far more than they ever did before Nearly all politicians lie but this lot have plumbed depths never before seen
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Post by thehartshillbadger on May 21, 2023 14:23:25 GMT
Brexit and Johnson spell as PM has led to the Tories beleiving they can lie far more than they ever did before Nearly all politicians lie but this lot have plumbed depths never before seen And Covid of course
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2023 14:34:29 GMT
Brexit and Johnson spell as PM has led to the Tories beleiving they can lie far more than they ever did before Nearly all politicians lie but this lot have plumbed depths never before seen I disagree with “never before seen”. Perhaps not seen in recent memory but I can’t imagine that those elected through rotten boroughs were somehow less corrupt than this current lot of scum.
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 21, 2023 15:02:22 GMT
Brexit and Johnson spell as PM has led to the Tories beleiving they can lie far more than they ever did before Nearly all politicians lie but this lot have plumbed depths never before seen I disagree with “never before seen”. Perhaps not seen in recent memory but I can’t imagine that those elected through rotten boroughs were somehow less corrupt than this current lot of scum. We've never had group of cabinet ministers prepared to lie on a daily basis, to the press with such impunity before. Johnson's leadership set the tone, buoyed by the apparent easiness to fool the public with Brexit, he (and Cummings) decided that the rules no longer applied to them and they could say anything they wanted, it didn't need to have any semblance of truth to it. They even lied to the Queen FFS! And this has now become the norm for this government, indeed they now believe, that this is how you govern.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2023 15:39:43 GMT
I disagree with “never before seen”. Perhaps not seen in recent memory but I can’t imagine that those elected through rotten boroughs were somehow less corrupt than this current lot of scum. We've never had group of cabinet ministers prepared to lie on a daily basis, to the press with such impunity before. Johnson's leadership set the tone, buoyed by the apparent easiness to fool the public with Brexit, he (and Cummings) decided that the rules no longer applied to them and they could say anything they wanted, it didn't need to have any semblance of truth to it. They even lied to the Queen FFS! And this has now become the norm for this government, indeed they now believe, that this how you govern.
I just don’t believe that there ever were “rules” that have been adhered to. The checks and balances in UK politics have always been woefully inadequate. That claim was made in 1645 by a Leveller who asked: “whether it be not most agreeable to Law, Justice, equitie and conscience, and the nature of a Parliament mans place, that during the time of his being a member, hee should lay aside all places of profit in the Common-wealth, and tend only upon that function, for which he was chosen” In the past, Parliament has confiscated estates, denied rights or simply killed those who oppose them etc. There have been articles published on corruption for a long time: www.jstor.org/stable/25105699?seq=1Those were in days where it was far easier to silence opposition, far harder to fact check and far fewer individuals willing to do it.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 21, 2023 15:59:21 GMT
We've never had group of cabinet ministers prepared to lie on a daily basis, to the press with such impunity before. Johnson's leadership set the tone, buoyed by the apparent easiness to fool the public with Brexit, he (and Cummings) decided that the rules no longer applied to them and they could say anything they wanted, it didn't need to have any semblance of truth to it. They even lied to the Queen FFS! And this has now become the norm for this government, indeed they now believe, that this how you govern.
I just don’t believe that there ever were “rules” that have been adhered to. The checks and balances in UK politics have always been woefully inadequate. That claim was made in 1645 by a Leveller who asked: “whether it be not most agreeable to Law, Justice, equitie and conscience, and the nature of a Parliament mans place, that during the time of his being a member, hee should lay aside all places of profit in the Common-wealth, and tend only upon that function, for which he was chosen” In the past, Parliament has confiscated estates, denied rights or simply killed those who oppose them etc. There have been articles published on corruption for a long time: www.jstor.org/stable/25105699?seq=1Those were in days where it was far easier to silence opposition, far harder to fact check and far fewer individuals willing to do it. Fair point. The big difference now, however, is that, where previously, ministers found to have lied/broken the ministerial code/misled the House would have resigned/been sacked/forced to correct the record in the House this government's approach, unlike previous, seems to be "we don't give a shit about normal standards, screw you". Back to Braverman. The thing that stands out for me most about this scandal is that the government (and their rightwing press cronies) often seeks to blame their ineptitude on the Civil Service, the nebulous Whitehall Blob. Yet here we are with a perfect example of the probable reality of the situation: across the board, I suspect, this government tries to do stuff that is simply illegal/wrong/unworkable, call it what you will, and when the civil service tells them so, it becomes the "lefty, remainer, Civil Service that is the problem". We should probably thank the eminently stupid Braverman for the nice demonstration of what actually goes on.
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 21, 2023 16:18:37 GMT
We've never had group of cabinet ministers prepared to lie on a daily basis, to the press with such impunity before. Johnson's leadership set the tone, buoyed by the apparent easiness to fool the public with Brexit, he (and Cummings) decided that the rules no longer applied to them and they could say anything they wanted, it didn't need to have any semblance of truth to it. They even lied to the Queen FFS! And this has now become the norm for this government, indeed they now believe, that this how you govern.
I just don’t believe that there ever were “rules” that have been adhered to. The checks and balances in UK politics have always been woefully inadequate. That claim was made in 1645 by a Leveller who asked: “whether it be not most agreeable to Law, Justice, equitie and conscience, and the nature of a Parliament mans place, that during the time of his being a member, hee should lay aside all places of profit in the Common-wealth, and tend only upon that function, for which he was chosen” In the past, Parliament has confiscated estates, denied rights or simply killed those who oppose them etc. There have been articles published on corruption for a long time: www.jstor.org/stable/25105699?seq=1Those were in days where it was far easier to silence opposition, far harder to fact check and far fewer individuals willing to do it. I think possibly we're talking about different things. I'm not talking about Parliament confiscating people's estates in the 17th century but rather, about cabinet ministers sitting in a TV studio blatantly and specifically lieing to the press with impunity. Of course politicians have lied to the press in the past but not on an industrial scale like this. There was always a worry that there would be consequences if you were caught doing so and that ultimately, you may have to resign to protect the dignity of the party. Since Johnson, none of them give the slightest shit about lying ALL the time. There has been a fundamental change in their approach to the media and it simply doesn't matter anymore if you are indeed found to be lying because there will be no consequences, dignity no longer matters to them. EDIT: Sorry, I notice RWB has made a similar point, I replied to you before seeing his post.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2023 16:24:39 GMT
I just don’t believe that there ever were “rules” that have been adhered to. The checks and balances in UK politics have always been woefully inadequate. That claim was made in 1645 by a Leveller who asked: “whether it be not most agreeable to Law, Justice, equitie and conscience, and the nature of a Parliament mans place, that during the time of his being a member, hee should lay aside all places of profit in the Common-wealth, and tend only upon that function, for which he was chosen” In the past, Parliament has confiscated estates, denied rights or simply killed those who oppose them etc. There have been articles published on corruption for a long time: www.jstor.org/stable/25105699?seq=1Those were in days where it was far easier to silence opposition, far harder to fact check and far fewer individuals willing to do it. I think possibly we're talking about different things. I'm not talking about Parliament confiscating people's estates in the 17th century but rather, about cabinet ministers sitting in a TV studio blatantly and specifically lieing to the press with impunity. Of course politicians have lied to the press in the past but not on an industrial scale like this. There was always a worry that there would be consequences if you were caught doing so and that ultimately, you may have to resign to protect the dignity of the party. Since Johnson, none of them give the slightest shit about lying ALL the time. There has been a fundamental change in their approach to the media and it simply doesn't matter anymore if you are indeed found to be lying because there will be no consequences, dignity no longer matters to them. EDIT: Sorry, I notice RWB has made a similar point, I replied to you before seeing his post. Fair points made by both of you
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Post by gawa on May 21, 2023 17:19:58 GMT
I only found out recently, she's only 51!!!! wow Still gaslighting the country This is prime time bbc too and what's our national broadcaster going to do about it? Nothing. I bet LK didn't correct her. Politics is fucking pathetic nowadays. Rishi might as well tell us all he got some special beans in Japan to grow money trees and everything is fine now. Because when bare faced lies are this acceptable and normal what's the point.
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Post by wannabee on May 21, 2023 18:07:53 GMT
Ni Council 3l3ctions be out today and tomorrow. Hoping for dup losses but in our tribal voting system it prob won't happen. Incredible result for Sinn Fein now by far the largest Party. Decent result for Alliance, DUP abstentionist policy neither endorsed or rejected, Ulster Unionists and SDLP in perpetual decline and wonder if they have future relevance First Preference Vote 42% Nationalist Parties 38% Unionist Parties seems like a permanent shift following on from Stormont Elections Would like to see more gravitate to the centre Whats your take on it?
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Post by fullmetaljacket on May 21, 2023 19:18:26 GMT
Michelle O'Neill is a bit of a looker to be fair.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 21, 2023 19:19:59 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 21, 2023 20:32:11 GMT
Is her time finally up?
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Post by gawa on May 21, 2023 20:40:10 GMT
Ni Council 3l3ctions be out today and tomorrow. Hoping for dup losses but in our tribal voting system it prob won't happen. Incredible result for Sinn Fein now by far the largest Party. Decent result for Alliance, DUP abstentionist policy neither endorsed or rejected, Ulster Unionists and SDLP in perpetual decline and wonder if they have future relevance First Preference Vote 42% Nationalist Parties 38% Unionist Parties seems like a permanent shift following on from Stormont Elections Would like to see more gravitate to the centre Whats your take on it? Well firstly it is local elections so I think that affects it slightly. In the sense that I had a UUP candidate as first preference as he does alot of good local work. DUP will try to claim protocol support no doubt by maintaining the same number of seats. But alot of those are seats they've absorbed from the likes of UUP/TUV due to our Stv system. And seats they would have got previously on first preference alone they didn't. I feel sorry for UUP/SDLP as I feel they're slightly more moderate from a unionist/nationalist point of view. And it feels everyone is going either extreme to SF/DUP or the more centre ground in Alliance. Whatever the DUP and unionists say they have a massive problem now. The census shows we have a nationalist majority. Most young people from unionist backgrounds hold the DUP in distain too. And their core base is dying off so this gap will just keep growing. SF are getting very lucky in the sense that they're riding this wave of momentum but with stormont collapsed they're not being held to account for anything. So the DUP collapsing stormont plays to their advantage even more because they can't take their seats and thus the whole shit show we have right now SF get no blame for (rightfully so). I think with time SF will be expected to start to deliver results once stormont resumes and this will be their big test. Alot of their supporters are quite naive in the sense they think United Ireland is just round the corner now. Having watched the SNP plight for another referendum vote and then raising it in Westminster every week. I'm not sure how SF voters expect SF to achieve a united ireland when they won't take seats in Westminster and when so many unionists hold them in a bad light. This is where parties like SDLP are better imo from a nationalist pov because they'll take their seats in stormont. They'll call out the IRA unlike SF and they're alot more pallipable to unionists and could be more influential too. Some extreme SF supporters seem to hate SDLP nearly more than DUP which is absurb. I think it's because they're their main competition for Votes. How the DUP/UUP/TUV move forward I do not know. As someone opposed to voting for unionist parties in general, I don't see how they could possibly convince me to move away from alliance/SDLP. UUP I did vote a councillor in for and I have them high on my transfers too usually. Ultimately though this is a win for continued tribalism because SF and DUP have both collapsed the executive for a few years each over the last half decade. And both have been in power sharing for 15 plus years and delivered very little. Modest alliance gains are good too for people like me but until we can close the gap further on the DUP there's still a long way to go. I think the SF vote can still grow further as they have some good policies. But there is a large portion of the community who won't vote for them due to their past. In terms of United Ireland I think discussions may start to happen in the coming years but it's still a long way off. Ultimately when the discussion does happen I imagine labour could be in government and I can't see Starmer wanting to have losing NI being used against him (while most don't care about the UK, I'm sure they'll care if the daily mail call him a traitor for selling NI or whatever way they spin it). If/When that conversation does come there'll be alot of political interference from America I'm sure. And that could be what spins it. In terms of immediate future. The DUP are fucked as they're just not attractive to young voters. I imagine there'll be attempts at a merger from a unionist pov but this still isn't enough. The numbers aren't there anymore. If they want to be the biggest party they need nationalist or neutral vote share. Nationalists won't vote for them as u like SF who have decent policies, the DUP have nada. And neutral voters won't vote them due to their policies and also because voting neutral is a protest in itself against the whole nationalist and unionist sides. UUP is a weird one because where do they go? The hard core unionists seem to go for DUP/TUV more. The moderate unionists who used to vote more for UUP are going towards Alliance. SDLP has a similar conundrum. A SDLP/UUP merger could be monumental but I'm not sure if their supporters would follow them. These were the two parties which delivered the GFA though so they do have a bit of common ground there. As things stand I think nationalist vote share will stay or grow. Neutral vote share (Alliance/Green) should continue to grow. Unionist vote share will continue to drop. Should say again though that with it being local elections it's defo influenced things. If it was a stormont election I think unionist vote share would have been even lower. But some of these councillors have been working in areas for multiple terms and as they're still working while stormont is shut, I think due to that they've been let off a bit. Sorry for just rambling with my views. Many others would interpret it differently I'm sure. It's decent progress anyway because if there's one thing DUP hate more than losing seats; it's seeing SF gain them. And a message has been sent that SF will keep growing while they slowly slip away. Surely should be a wake up call that people are sick of them. Can't stand that fucker Jeffery Donaldson either. Sounds like a right eejit everytine he opens his mouth. Embarrassing for the country. Same goes for Sammy Wilson and many of the other DUP big hitters.
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Post by gawa on May 21, 2023 20:50:50 GMT
As for Alliance they get an easy time being the only major neutral party. But from a policy pov I wish they were a bit more left.
Their biggest problem is many see them more as a belfast party and while they continue to perform well and make gains, they're struggling to make gains on the west side of the country. They maybe even lost seats there this election.
And while I can be confident many young protestants will continue to vote for them for the foreseeable. I think alot of that relates to the lack of alternatives.
Where Alliance need to also grow is their nationalist vote share. Because if any thing I feel some nationalists have probably moved from alliance to SF.
It is very strange times though. For nationalists having SF as biggest party in stormont and in local elections is momenentous which it very much is. And I feel this has created alot of hype around SF which has probably helped attract Votes away from SDLP and Alliance. And as mentioned earlier with stormont collapsed SF aren't accountable for any problems right now so as long as they say the right things in public they're grand.
Honestly the DUP are so dumb lol. We have civil servants doing the budget atm and they're the ones deciding which cuts go through. Had DUP came into the executive they'd actually have a bit of ammunition and could put the blame on different cuts in SF. But yeh SF getting a very easy life right now.
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