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Post by felonious on Sept 27, 2017 10:19:44 GMT
Militant tendency all over again? Talk yesterday of bringing this 15% rule down to 10% to make it easier for Corbyn type politicians to get elected. Even the vote to decide which topics were voted on at conference were controlled by Momentum ensuring no divisive vote on the EU.
Interesting times ahead for Labour.
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Post by spiler on Sept 27, 2017 10:55:01 GMT
Momentum is absolutely nothing like Militant Tendency. It's like accusing Tony Benn of being Enoch Powell.
I thought you lot were sick to the high teeth of the "liberal elites" that were the hallmark of Blair's New Labour project?
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 27, 2017 11:13:01 GMT
Momentum is absolutely nothing like Militant Tendency. It's like accusing Tony Benn of being Enoch Powell. I thought you lot were sick to the high teeth of the "liberal elites" that were the hallmark of Blair's New Labour project? Benn and Powell are very similar both well educated and both choose to lose the chance of high office by sticking to principles that they believed in I have a lot of time for both in a way I have to admit to a small amount of admiration for corbyn who does come across as a conviction politician Although I think he would be a disaster for the country
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Post by felonious on Sept 27, 2017 11:44:10 GMT
A party within a party. Time for a comeback from Neil Kinnock?
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Post by spiler on Sept 27, 2017 11:45:58 GMT
Momentum is absolutely nothing like Militant Tendency. It's like accusing Tony Benn of being Enoch Powell. I thought you lot were sick to the high teeth of the "liberal elites" that were the hallmark of Blair's New Labour project? Benn and Powell are very similar both well educated and both choose to lose the chance of high office by sticking to principles that they believed in I have a lot of time for both in a way I have to admit to a small amount of admiration for corbyn who does come across as a conviction politician Although I think he would be a disaster for the country Interesting point, well made.
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Post by tuum on Sept 27, 2017 17:45:52 GMT
Momentum is absolutely nothing like Militant Tendency. It's like accusing Tony Benn of being Enoch Powell. I thought you lot were sick to the high teeth of the "liberal elites" that were the hallmark of Blair's New Labour project? Benn and Powell are very similar both well educated and both choose to lose the chance of high office by sticking to principles that they believed in I have a lot of time for both in a way I have to admit to a small amount of admiration for corbyn who does come across as a conviction politician Although I think he would be a disaster for the country Conviction politician? Really? The bloke is no better than May. He is in charge of a divided party and sways with the wind. We are in a pretty sad state at the moment w.r.to our politicians.
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Post by spiler on Sept 27, 2017 17:48:45 GMT
Benn and Powell are very similar both well educated and both choose to lose the chance of high office by sticking to principles that they believed in I have a lot of time for both in a way I have to admit to a small amount of admiration for corbyn who does come across as a conviction politician Although I think he would be a disaster for the country Conviction politician? Really? The bloke is no better than May. He is in charge of a divided party and sways with the wind. We are in a pretty sad state at the moment w.r.to our politicians. Clearly your political assessment skills are in need of a re-boot if that's what you think. You may need to catch up with current affairs too.
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Momentum
Sept 27, 2017 18:31:49 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 27, 2017 18:31:49 GMT
Benn and Powell are very similar both well educated and both choose to lose the chance of high office by sticking to principles that they believed in I have a lot of time for both in a way I have to admit to a small amount of admiration for corbyn who does come across as a conviction politician Although I think he would be a disaster for the country Conviction politician? Really? The bloke is no better than May. He is in charge of a divided party and sways with the wind. We are in a pretty sad state at the moment w.r.to our politicians. Thats unfair the McDonnell policy announcement on taking PFI back in house held for almost 15 minutes after he had spoken before Labour reviewed their position.
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Post by robstokie on Sept 27, 2017 18:44:02 GMT
Conviction politician? Really? The bloke is no better than May. He is in charge of a divided party and sways with the wind. We are in a pretty sad state at the moment w.r.to our politicians. Clearly your political assessment skills are in need of a re-boot if that's what you think. You may need to catch up with current affairs too. I think the problem is that Corbyn is both 1 - Out of Kilter with a large cross-section of his parliamentary party who are just as guilty as him of 2 - being out of touch with those they claim to represent. Does anyone think the people of Stoke-on-Trent, the North and the Valleys really care about re-nationalising the railways, the Israel-Palestine crisis, renewable energy, Zionism or giving up Trident? I somehow don't think so... ![8-|](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/rY_vRFLA3mqqdMbEG4cF.gif)
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Post by spiler on Sept 27, 2017 18:47:56 GMT
Clearly your political assessment skills are in need of a re-boot if that's what you think. You may need to catch up with current affairs too. I think the problem is that Corbyn is both 1 - Out of Kilter with a large cross-section of his parliamentary party who are just as guilty as him of 2 - being out of touch with those they claim to represent. Does anyone think the people of Stoke-on-Trent, the North and the Valleys really care about re-nationalising the railways, the Israel-Palestine crisis, renewable energy, Zionism or giving up Trident? I somehow don't think so... Is that Corbyn's fault? What's he supposed to do, re-engineer the human species into socially and politically aware beings?
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Post by robstokie on Sept 27, 2017 18:59:46 GMT
I think the problem is that Corbyn is both 1 - Out of Kilter with a large cross-section of his parliamentary party who are just as guilty as him of 2 - being out of touch with those they claim to represent. Does anyone think the people of Stoke-on-Trent, the North and the Valleys really care about re-nationalising the railways, the Israel-Palestine crisis, renewable energy, Zionism or giving up Trident? I somehow don't think so... Is that Corbyn's fault? What's he supposed to do, re-engineer the human species into socially and politically aware beings? I believe that the way to win elections is to talk to voters - not at them. Talk about the things that matter to average Joe - not theoretical principles shared by a small hard-core of (mostly) university educated, know-it-all snob kids who have had an easy ride through life, going fee-paying school because Mummy and Daddy are rich. Im not saying that all Corbyn supporters are like that, but it seems to me most of his flag-waving followers who go to pretty much every event he attends fit into that category. Its something Farage in particular has done well (despite being a high-end public school boy himself), but not many others, Corbyn in particular, have failed to grasp that the majority of us (myself included in that) are working-class and haven't had the same priveleges.
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Post by spiler on Sept 27, 2017 19:13:56 GMT
Is that Corbyn's fault? What's he supposed to do, re-engineer the human species into socially and politically aware beings? I believe that the way to win elections is to talk to voters - not at them. Talk about the things that matter to average Joe - not theoretical principles shared by a small hard-core of (mostly) university educated, know-it-all snob kids who have had an easy ride through life, going fee-paying school because Mummy and Daddy are rich. Im not saying that all Corbyn supporters are like that, but it seems to me most of his flag-waving followers who go to pretty much every event he attends fit into that category. Its something Farage in particular has done well (despite being a high-end public school boy himself), but not many others, Corbyn in particular, have failed to grasp that the majority of us (myself included in that) are working-class and haven't had the same priveleges. I think for a generation of voters in N. Staffs they just don't give a toss - hence the high Brexit %. Politics nor Brexit will never save Stoke. Never in a million years. Has to start with education, the current crop are disconnected massively from politics, they don't have a clue but all know it doesn't work. Globalisation has done for the north of England.
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Post by robstokie on Sept 27, 2017 19:31:46 GMT
I believe that the way to win elections is to talk to voters - not at them. Talk about the things that matter to average Joe - not theoretical principles shared by a small hard-core of (mostly) university educated, know-it-all snob kids who have had an easy ride through life, going fee-paying school because Mummy and Daddy are rich. Im not saying that all Corbyn supporters are like that, but it seems to me most of his flag-waving followers who go to pretty much every event he attends fit into that category. Its something Farage in particular has done well (despite being a high-end public school boy himself), but not many others, Corbyn in particular, have failed to grasp that the majority of us (myself included in that) are working-class and haven't had the same priveleges. I think for a generation of voters in N. Staffs they just don't give a toss - hence the high Brexit %. Politics nor Brexit will never save Stoke. Never in a million years. Has to start with education, the current crop are disconnected massively from politics, they don't have a clue but all know it doesn't work. Globalisation has done for the north of England. For education, I would bring back the Grammar system - it allows the schools to cater to the abilities of their pupils rather than chucking everyone together in some 'equality' gesture. Chucking kids of all abilities together makes tends to lead education being catered to the lowest common denominator, whereas with grammar schools, the brightest get the chance to study to an advanced level. Below the grammar level - I would ensure that other schools offer a foundation education with a practical emphasis (English, Maths, Science and British history and culture lessons) alongside the opportunities to learn a trade to equip those less academically inclined to support themselves in the real world. Im not saying this as some kind of frustrated schoolboy intellectual - Academically, I was bang average unfortunately - though I enjoyed history for some strange reason, and would have benefitted from learning a trade or lessons on writing a CV etc. rather than having to sit through hours of Shakespeare or Algebra which I knew back then I would never need in the real world.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 19:50:35 GMT
I bet mumf's confused to fuck right now One time labour voter......hater of new labour......leans towards ukips version of Britain ......then the rise in corbyn and his ever growing group of activists ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif)
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Post by felonious on Sept 28, 2017 6:16:09 GMT
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Post by thevoid on Sept 28, 2017 7:06:43 GMT
Corbyn is just Momentum's sock-puppet.
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Momentum
Sept 28, 2017 7:11:48 GMT
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Post by manmarking on Sept 28, 2017 7:11:48 GMT
A lot of that article simply isn't factually accurate to be fair (not that that's ever been any sort of impediment to making proclamations on this board ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) ) But in all seriousness, you'd have to be pretty gullible to take the Telegraph's word on Momentum at face value ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif)
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Post by manmarking on Sept 28, 2017 7:12:37 GMT
Corbyn is just Momentum's sock-puppet. You're just todger's spunk rocket ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 7:21:15 GMT
Once corbyns found out he will be hated as much as blair
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 28, 2017 7:32:07 GMT
A lot of that article simply isn't factually accurate to be fair (not that that's ever been any sort of impediment to making proclamations on this board ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) ) But in all seriousness, you'd have to be pretty gullible to take the Telegraph's word on Momentum at face value ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif) I totally agree over the telegraphs word It's about as accurate as the guardian mirror and now unfortunately the independent Who has become anything other
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Momentum
Sept 28, 2017 7:33:28 GMT
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Post by manmarking on Sept 28, 2017 7:33:28 GMT
Once corbyns found out he will be hated as much as blair Found out in what way exactly, fraise? What incredibly insightful political information has The Express told you to think now does the plastering trade make you privy to ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif)
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Post by salopstick on Sept 28, 2017 7:59:47 GMT
If Corbyn was a conviction politician he would have campaigned for Brexit After all that position has always been his conviction ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/0m0lbCuTEBzaRn6f8QaM.gif)
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Post by spiler on Sept 28, 2017 8:04:56 GMT
If Corbyn was a conviction politician he would have campaigned for Brexit After all that position has always been his conviction It's not Labour's position though. The personal views of the leader don't automatically determine policy, otherwise that would be a dictatorship. Labour policy is determined by the membership. And to be fair, i'm not 100% sure what Jermy's personal view is today. You're right about the past though - he was opposed for many years.
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Momentum
Sept 28, 2017 8:15:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 8:15:16 GMT
Once corbyns found out he will be hated as much as blair Found out in what way exactly, fraise? What incredibly insightful political information has The Express told you to think now does the plastering trade make you privy to ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) It's pretty obvious he's promising what he can't deliver It's obvious in the way he leaves himself escape routes with every promise he makes Very similar to David Cameron
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Momentum
Sept 28, 2017 10:59:16 GMT
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Post by manmarking on Sept 28, 2017 10:59:16 GMT
Found out in what way exactly, fraise? What incredibly insightful political information has The Express told you to think now does the plastering trade make you privy to ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) It's pretty obvious he's promising what he can't deliver It's obvious in the way he leaves himself escape routes with every promise he makes Very similar to David Cameron No offence fraise, but only a complete bunghole would say Corbyn was similar to Cameron. And we can all note that you don't apply the same standards of probity to, say, Nigel Farage, when he makes statements about NHS spending or referendum winning margins. Because it doesn't suit your agenda I guess ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif)
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Momentum
Sept 28, 2017 11:12:50 GMT
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Post by thevoid on Sept 28, 2017 11:12:50 GMT
Just had a message off Deano- he has to catch a train on Saturday so 6pm at the Bull and Bush isn't do-able for him 😂
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Momentum
Sept 28, 2017 11:15:03 GMT
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Post by salopstick on Sept 28, 2017 11:15:03 GMT
If Corbyn was a conviction politician he would have campaigned for Brexit After all that position has always been his conviction It's not Labour's position though. The personal views of the leader don't automatically determine policy, otherwise that would be a dictatorship. Labour policy is determined by the membership. And to be fair, i'm not 100% sure what Jermy's personal view is today. You're right about the past though - he was opposed for many years. Actually the leader should be driving party policy, listening to his members but driving policy all the same. Then the leadership candidates campaign on their vision of what the party should be doing. The membership then vote for where they want their party going and who will lead it. The leader can promote policies they are not necessary 100% behind and also consult the party on policy issues but policy ultimately should come from the leader. His leadership campaign SHOULD have had a Brexit edge and his vision of Brexit if the membership didn’t like it they didn’t have to vote for it. His leadership campaign was basically a manifesto for the hard left of the membership
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Momentum
Sept 28, 2017 11:31:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 11:31:59 GMT
It's pretty obvious he's promising what he can't deliver It's obvious in the way he leaves himself escape routes with every promise he makes Very similar to David Cameron No offence fraise, but only a complete bunghole would say Corbyn was similar to Cameron. And we can all note that you don't apply the same standards of probity to, say, Nigel Farage, when he makes statements about NHS spending or referendum winning margins. Because it doesn't suit your agenda I guess ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif) "No offence" is that your favourite opener? ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) Remember clegg saying he couldn't remember the queen bollocking him over his love for the eu.....then later to say it never happened and it's all bollocks.....then change again to say she did give him a bollocking after all ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif)
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Post by spiler on Sept 28, 2017 11:56:29 GMT
It's not Labour's position though. The personal views of the leader don't automatically determine policy, otherwise that would be a dictatorship. Labour policy is determined by the membership. And to be fair, i'm not 100% sure what Jermy's personal view is today. You're right about the past though - he was opposed for many years. Actually the leader should be driving party policy, listening to his members but driving policy all the same. Then the leadership candidates campaign on their vision of what the party should be doing. The membership then vote for where they want their party going and who will lead it. The leader can promote policies they are not necessary 100% behind and also consult the party on policy issues but policy ultimately should come from the leader. His leadership campaign SHOULD have had a Brexit edge and his vision of Brexit if the membership didn’t like it they didn’t have to vote for it. His leadership campaign was basically a manifesto for the hard left of the membership Of course, I agree the leader should be driving policy. However, Labour is a far broader church than all the other parties so things tend to get done slightly differently. Under Blair it was chapter and verse as he decreed - Corbyn is advocating a bottom up approach so he knows that his personal view is merely advisory. Surely having a say is good news for the average person? Certainly Corbyn has pulled Labour to the left, but this direction can't seriously be described as hard left.
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Momentum
Sept 28, 2017 12:49:47 GMT
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Post by manmarking on Sept 28, 2017 12:49:47 GMT
No offence fraise, but only a complete bunghole would say Corbyn was similar to Cameron. And we can all note that you don't apply the same standards of probity to, say, Nigel Farage, when he makes statements about NHS spending or referendum winning margins. Because it doesn't suit your agenda I guess ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif) "No offence" is that your favourite opener? ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) Remember clegg saying he couldn't remember the queen bollocking him over his love for the eu.....then later to say it never happened and it's all bollocks.....then change again to say she did give him a bollocking after all ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) Funny, I was texting deano about that opener only a little while ago ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) I don't remember that but again, Clegg is totally different to Corbyn so I'm not sure how it's relevant to any of this ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif)
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