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Post by Jamo on the wing on Jul 18, 2017 12:58:35 GMT
The more I have thought about this deal, the better it looks. It can be argued whether the fee is enough but we've probably had Arnie's best years out of him, are going to make £20m profit on him and he will be 29 before the season ends. He's a very good player but given the nature of his game and his age, you can't see him getting better can you? As long as we haven't been daft and have been lining up a replacement BEFORE we get the cash from West Ham, it won't be as bad as it could have been. Of course he'll be missed but given the way his brother has gone about things, I just want him away from the other players. All correct Jamo and Jezza but it still completely fails to take any heed of the current inflated market and as we see the silly season start in terms of clubs panic buying, I think we'll see we've actually under valued him considerably. There are extenuating circumstances but I'll bet my balls that there will be players moving for £20M (in later stages of their contract than Arnie) who aren't fit to lace his boots over these coming weeks. Which might well be a situation we end up in if we're not careful. This is another point I was discussing out in Martigny with Pete Smith. I'm of the opinion that although we don't help ourselves at times, the media perception of our club (and therefore our players) has a direct influence on the value folk attach to them. The amount of "football has gone mad now" posts on various social media on the back of Marko being worth over 20m has been eye opening. Given all the crazy fees around, it's bizarre that this deal is the one that many have decided breaks the camel's back.
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Post by lordeffinghamhunt on Jul 18, 2017 12:59:04 GMT
So who on here would stay working for the same firm if another comes in and offers you more money for doing the same job? It's the way of the world!
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Post by bhp on Jul 18, 2017 12:59:22 GMT
I'm not sure it does. NO other club have shown an interest in Arnie. There's a reason for that. Plus - we were on the back foot a little after the 'ambition' thing - he had to go after that. I don't give a shit what any other club want to pay for Assombalonga. It's not relevant. What is relevant is that we've got £23m banked for a player that didnt want to play for Stoke any more. If we went and got (eg) Van Der Wiel and Demarai Gray with the money, would you consider that a good bit of business? It's entirely relevant, it shows where the market, it highlights that if it is 23m, we're underselling. Again people seem happy with this poor business. I just don't get it. £23m for a player who blows hot and cold, is 28, is not going to improve and doesn't want to be here. Not entirely poor business. Would of preferred at least £25m but with one club interested we can't do much about that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 12:59:36 GMT
I'm not sure it does. NO other club have shown an interest in Arnie. There's a reason for that. Plus - we were on the back foot a little after the 'ambition' thing - he had to go after that. I don't give a shit what any other club want to pay for Assombalonga. It's not relevant. What is relevant is that we've got £23m banked for a player that didnt want to play for Stoke any more. If we went and got (eg) Van Der Wiel and Demarai Gray with the money, would you consider that a good bit of business? It's entirely relevant, it shows where the market, it highlights that if it is 23m, we're underselling. Again people seem happy with this poor business. I just don't get it. What would your 'Plan B' be, if we held out for £27m and WHU wouldn't pay it?
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Post by Kjones9 on Jul 18, 2017 12:59:39 GMT
That's been covered many times on this thread.
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Post by TinkerT on Jul 18, 2017 13:00:29 GMT
It was reported 2 hours ago by the evening standard... "Sky sources" brilliant again.
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Post by Kjones9 on Jul 18, 2017 13:00:57 GMT
It's entirely relevant, it shows where the market, it highlights that if it is 23m, we're underselling. Again people seem happy with this poor business. I just don't get it. What would your 'Plan B' be, if we held out for £27m and WHU wouldn't pay it? He'd make him play, make him play well and make us like him again. It's that simple.
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Post by pez75 on Jul 18, 2017 13:01:47 GMT
To be fair, I think a lot of people do not have a problem with Arnie wanting away (whatever the reason) - its more the way he has gone about it...
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 18, 2017 13:02:04 GMT
It's entirely relevant, it shows where the market, it highlights that if it is 23m, we're underselling. Again people seem happy with this poor business. I just don't get it. £23m for a player who blows hot and cold, is 28, is not going to improve and doesn't want to be here. Not entirely poor business. Would of preferred at least £25m but with one club interested we can't do much about that. He's our best player who for the last 2/3 seasons has carried the attack. It is poor business, Palace got 30m for a winger when only one club was interested and he's not as good as Arnie so again they is something we can do.
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Post by lordb on Jul 18, 2017 13:02:53 GMT
I'm not sure it does. NO other club have shown an interest in Arnie. There's a reason for that. Plus - we were on the back foot a little after the 'ambition' thing - he had to go after that. I don't give a shit what any other club want to pay for Assombalonga. It's not relevant. What is relevant is that we've got £23m banked for a player that didnt want to play for Stoke any more. If we went and got (eg) Van Der Wiel and Demarai Gray with the money, would you consider that a good bit of business? It's entirely relevant, it shows where the market, it highlights that if it is 23m, we're underselling. Again people seem happy with this poor business. I just don't get it. The alternative would be to turn the bid down. Would West Ham come back with a fourth bid at £25m or more? You would have to judge that & I would say that they probably wouldn't. If so then what? with some players you could keep them & they would knuckle down & play good football maybe earning a move in the future as a result of that form. In that scenario everyone wins. However you would have to make a judgement as to whether the player will knuckle down. In Arnie's case that's a really easy judgement surely? i.e. he absolutely will down tools As Paul Spencer pointed out a few pages ago this is a mess of Arnie/his brothers making. if there was another club in for him the decision would be much easier, hold out for more money - as Swansea have been able to do with Siggurdsson playing Everton & Leicester off West Ham have his over a barrel on this one sadly. the good news is because he has handed a transfer request in we don't have to give him a cut of the fee (as Forest will have to do with Assombalinga for example). also it's a large wage we can now pay to another player who want's to be here. 12 months ago I would have been gutted at this but after a poor season from him (4 goals,lots of missed chances,stupid bookings) & with the emergence of Ramadam (& Verlinden maybe) I think Stoke should take this offer even though it's about £5m less than we'd want.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 18, 2017 13:02:55 GMT
It's entirely relevant, it shows where the market, it highlights that if it is 23m, we're underselling. Again people seem happy with this poor business. I just don't get it. What would your 'Plan B' be, if we held out for £27m and WHU wouldn't pay it? He's back in the squad like Fonz was. It's really not hard.
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Post by lordb on Jul 18, 2017 13:03:32 GMT
other reports state their sell on clause is limited to £500k
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Post by geoff321 on Jul 18, 2017 13:04:07 GMT
Usual suspects out in force to cry down the club. Again I say let's see what we do with the money by 1st Sept before using terms like "catastrophic summer". He could not stay without stirring up more bad feelings, rotting in the stand being considerably devalued - basically like Saido at West Brom. He and his brother engineered this move which pushed him towards the exit and limited our options. This is not like Siggy at Swansea where he is not publicly begging for a move. Arnie gave in a transfer request, removed himself from the team getting ready for the first friendly by standing alone and then jogged round 45 minutes like he really couldn't be bothered. We clearly would not get any more worthwhile minutes out of him. His head was gone. We had to get the best we could and let his body follow. Because at 23m we would be selling our best player to a direct rival for below the market value. It's poor from the club. Market value is what the highest bidder is prepared to pay, not what the seller believes is fair value. If Stoke believe though they can get higher bids then they still have the option to keep MA and see if higher bids come in, of course it's possible that if West Ham lose interest that any future offers from other clubs could in fact be lower.
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Post by lordb on Jul 18, 2017 13:04:20 GMT
What would your 'Plan B' be, if we held out for £27m and WHU wouldn't pay it? He's back in the squad like Fonz was. It's really not hard. Fonz knuckled down, Arnie absolutely wouldn't its really not hard
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 18, 2017 13:04:21 GMT
It's entirely relevant, it shows where the market, it highlights that if it is 23m, we're underselling. Again people seem happy with this poor business. I just don't get it. The alternative would be to turn the bid down. Would West Ham come back with a fourth bid at £25m or more? You would have to judge that & I would say that they probably wouldn't. If so then what? with some players you could keep them & they would knuckle down & play good football maybe earning a move in the future as a result of that form. In that scenario everyone wins. However you would have to make a judgement as to whether the player will knuckle down. In Arnie's case that's a really easy judgement surely? i.e. he absolutely will down tools As Paul Spencer pointed out a few pages ago this is a mess of Arnie/his brothers making. if there was another club in for him the decision would be much easier, hold out for more money - as Swansea have been able to do with Siggurdsson playing Everton & Leicester off West Ham have his over a barrel on this one sadly. the good news is because he has handed a transfer request in we don't have to give him a cut of the fee (as Forest will have to do with Assombalinga for example). also it's a large wage we can now pay to another player who want's to be here. 12 months ago I would have been gutted at this but after a poor season from him (4 goals,lots of missed chances,stupid bookings) & with the emergence of Ramadam (& Verlinden maybe) I think Stoke should take this offer even though it's about £5m less than we'd want. He probably would down tools but we all thought that with Fonz and he didn't.
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Post by liamo on Jul 18, 2017 13:05:26 GMT
I'm not sure it does. NO other club have shown an interest in Arnie. There's a reason for that. Plus - we were on the back foot a little after the 'ambition' thing - he had to go after that. I don't give a shit what any other club want to pay for Assombalonga. It's not relevant. What is relevant is that we've got £23m banked for a player that didnt want to play for Stoke any more. If we went and got (eg) Van Der Wiel and Demarai Gray with the money, would you consider that a good bit of business? It's entirely relevant, it shows where the market, it highlights that if it is 23m, we're underselling. Again people seem happy with this poor business. I just don't get it. Nobody is happy with poor business, it's the best we're going to get due to the situation we're in, nobody else wants him, he doesn't want to stay We can either cash in or throw our shit out the pram like West Brom did with Berahino
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Post by Pirate on Jul 18, 2017 13:05:32 GMT
Are we going to put the money back into the front end of the team would be my concern, we haven't been linked to any forwards at all this summer yet we are selling the best creative outlet we have in a team already devoid of creativity & goals.
Obviously this situation has probably caught us on the hop a little but for me we have to go for a big player, we didn't score/create enough last season let alone adding to the problem by losing our best forward & not replacing him with an established talent. I am all for giving youngsters a go but going into the season with one less creative player than we had last year seems pretty suicidal to me given what we know?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 18, 2017 13:05:59 GMT
Because at 23m we would be selling our best player to a direct rival for below the market value. It's poor from the club. Market value is what the highest bidder is prepared to pay, not what the seller believes is fair value. If Stoke believe though they can get higher bids then they still have the option to keep MA and see if higher bids come in, of course it's possible that if West Ham lose interest that any future offers from other clubs could in fact be lower. Indeed! That's why we should be in rush to get rid. We have him contracted for a long time, there should be no rush. That there is worrying and indicates we need the money. Which again is poor.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 13:06:59 GMT
It's a decent deal for us, some people on here always want more and look for any excuse to slag the club off. The last thing we need is him and his brother around the place with their toxic behaviour, take the money and get them gone.
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Post by boothenesque on Jul 18, 2017 13:07:53 GMT
Well I took a 50% drop to go somewhere that I was ethically happier at, but generally speaking if someone values you more then why not take it. So long as we make a decent profit and ideally replace with better then what's the problem. He is a good player but also has his faults as we all do. He's not irreplaceable, life and Stoke City go on. It might end up being good for us. Don't see that now as he's a great player but we have seen good players come and go before and will again. An increased salary, a signing on fee, a club that's small enough for him to be a star that's had the handout of a big stadium from the taxpayer, London, etc, if the overall package is better, you've done good by your former employer in performances and profit, then who wouldn't take it? We should give him a warm welcome when he comes back and thank him for some good memories.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 18, 2017 13:08:49 GMT
It's a decent deal for us, some people on here always want more and look for any excuse to slag the club off. The last thing we need is him and his brother around the place with their toxic behaviour, take the money and get them gone. We want more because the market is ridiculous and we should be getting 25m minimum without trying.
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Post by stokiejoeofalsager on Jul 18, 2017 13:09:40 GMT
Well I took a 50% drop to go somewhere that I was ethically happier at, but generally speaking if someone values you more then why not take it. So long as we make a decent profit and ideally replace with better then what's the problem. He is a good player but also has his faults as we all do. He's not irreplaceable, life and Stoke City go on. It might end up being good for us. Don't see that now as he's a great player but we have seen good players come and go before and will again. An increased salary, a signing on fee, a club that's small enough for him to be a star that's had the handout of a big stadium from the taxpayer, London, etc, if the overall package is better, you've done good by your former employer in performances and profit, then who wouldn't take it? We should give him a warm welcome when he comes back and thank him for some good memories. Nah a warm welcome is boring, particularly after the way he forced his move. There's a reason why Walters will be treated completely differently on his return.
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Post by pez75 on Jul 18, 2017 13:10:32 GMT
He's back in the squad like Fonz was. It's really not hard. Fonz knuckled down, Arnie absolutely wouldn't its really not hard Strange that, because according to some at the time N'Zonzi was also a sulky petulant twat who should be fucked off...?
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Post by Kjones9 on Jul 18, 2017 13:11:07 GMT
If the club are happy with it and the bean counters are happy with it then that's what he'll go for.
It's not going in my or your arse pocket so I don't know why people are losing sleep over it.
It's like they WANT some faux outrage to slag the club off... again.
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Post by colinroberts1 on Jul 18, 2017 13:11:19 GMT
I don't know why people are already worrying about what to do when he plays against us. According to a lot on here he will either be shit, too busy sulking or will already have had his 3 good games a season - yet they still reckon we should hold out for £30M??? Shouldn't be a problem,get Zouma put him on his arse for the 1st 15 mins,he'll soon drift out of the game..wonder if he'll take the abuse well off the crowd? We should have them party fireworks and fire out monopoly money all over him when appears from tunnel haha
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Post by jezzascfc on Jul 18, 2017 13:12:13 GMT
It's a decent deal for us, some people on here always want more and look for any excuse to slag the club off. The last thing we need is him and his brother around the place with their toxic behaviour, take the money and get them gone. We want more because the market is ridiculous and we should be getting 25m minimum without trying. Oh bayern.....if we could do so without trying, why have we not been able to since the time he handed in a transfer request? No other club than the Spammers have an interest in him and we have had to edge them upwards through three bids! A player is only worth what a buying club will pay for him.......
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 18, 2017 13:12:45 GMT
It's a decent deal for us, some people on here always want more and look for any excuse to slag the club off. The last thing we need is him and his brother around the place with their toxic behaviour, take the money and get them gone. And therefore handing a golden invitation to every other shady agent and trumped up twenty something millionaire with a bit of magic in his boots to rip the piss out of us.
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Post by Kjones9 on Jul 18, 2017 13:13:55 GMT
Plus west hams previous record transfer is Ayew, £20mill last year.
Have they got 50% more in them for Arnie? I doubt it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 13:14:04 GMT
We want more because the market is ridiculous and we should be getting 25m minimum without trying. Oh bayern.....if we could do so without trying, why have we not been able to since the time he handed in a transfer request? No other club than the Spammers have an interest in him and we have had to edge them upwards through three bids! A player is only worth what a buying club will pay for him....... Bayern always knows best....
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 18, 2017 13:14:19 GMT
We want more because the market is ridiculous and we should be getting 25m minimum without trying. Oh bayern.....if we could do so without trying, why have we not been able to since the time he handed in a transfer request? No other club than the Spammers have an interest in him and we have had to edge them upwards through three bids! A player is only worth what a buying club will pay for him....... Because we are run by a bunch of imebeciles who don't try. They are half arsed and accept mediocrity because we allow them to. And then slap them on the back for doing just enough. I hate it.
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