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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 18, 2017 9:49:12 GMT
Nope it's definitely the small minded fans who are happy with getting pittance for our best players. Come on then impart your wisdom on us, West Ham offer £22m take it or leave it. We say no he's worth more. They walk away. What happens next? He plays football for Stoke City and gets on with the Jon he's contracted to do.
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Post by scfc75 on Jul 18, 2017 9:49:57 GMT
The people who are satisfied with £22M for Arnie are the same people who've had a problem with him since he's walked through the door. They don't like him and they don't rate him, that's their look out. We can't force West Ham (or anyone else for that matter) to bid £30M for Arnie though can we? How does that make us "not very good at this sort of thing"? I wouldn't be happy with £22M and I think Stoke should reject it. But then we're left with a potential problem of a dissatisfied player and his snake of a brother and that's something the club have to consider when decided to accept or reject West Ham's next bid (if they make one of course). I can understand what you're saying dave but doesn't that set a hugely dangerous precedent for us? You hope players and agents have more integrity than the Arnautovic's but the message is clear kick off a bit, play a toxic card and Stoke are happy to let go under the market value and make it easy for you. I think the point is that some posters on here are saying that we're undervaluing him, letting him go cheap etc... but it isn't Stoke City at fault , the situation (created by Arnie and his brother) dictates that we either move him on for what we can get realistically (given that there is only one club bidding) or we stand firm, have a rotten apple in the camp that will depreciate rapidly the longer the situation plays. Berahino was reported to be going to Spurs for £20m, it didn't happen because WBA dug their heels in, a year and a bit later they get 40% less for him and he contributes the square root of fuck all in the meantime. Nobody wins. It stinks, but the club are not at fault and are not in a position to dictate the terms and come out winners.
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Post by scfc75 on Jul 18, 2017 9:50:55 GMT
Come on then impart your wisdom on us, West Ham offer £22m take it or leave it. We say no he's worth more. They walk away. What happens next? He plays football for Stoke City and gets on with the Jon he's contracted to do. On paper sounds great. Won't happen.
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Post by miltonpotterfan on Jul 18, 2017 9:53:13 GMT
If Arnie does not leave because West Ham wont pay up after unsettling him, would us as fans be willing to welcome him back?
I know i wont not after last season when his move failed to materialize to Everton, then he spouted shite he was always going sign the contract to stay.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 18, 2017 9:54:42 GMT
He plays football for Stoke City and gets on with the Jon he's contracted to do. On paper sounds great. Won't happen. Fonz managed it for two years. We hold all of the cards here.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 9:54:53 GMT
Come on then impart your wisdom on us, West Ham offer £22m take it or leave it. We say no he's worth more. They walk away. What happens next? He plays football for Stoke City and gets on with the Jon he's contracted to do. Excellent. And the fans will forgive him, chant his name and Arnautovic will put in maximum effort for the cause. And the dressing room will be harmonious and all will be well in the world. Or you end up wasting 12 months wage on a player who is a disruptive influence in the dressing room and who's stock ends up falling dramatically anyway. Once again though not as easy a judgement call as you always make it out to be.......
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 18, 2017 9:56:36 GMT
He plays football for Stoke City and gets on with the Jon he's contracted to do. Excellent. And the fans will forgive him, chant his name and Arnautovic will put in maximum effort for the cause. And the dressing room will be harmonious and all will be well in the world. Or you end up wasting 12 months wage on a player who is a disruptive influence in the dressing room and who's stock ends up falling dramatically anyway. Once again though not as easy a judgement call as you always make it out to be....... That's sheer speculation. We managed it with Fonz for two years, so I can't see why we can't again. They pay 25m+ or he remains a Stoke player. It's that simple.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 9:56:39 GMT
On paper sounds great. Won't happen. Fonz managed it for two years. We hold all of the cards here. He never rocked the boat though. And weren't you moaning about how we handled that deal as well? Dead easy this decision making when there's no consequences......
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Post by liathroid on Jul 18, 2017 9:57:34 GMT
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Post by itsajoytobeapotter on Jul 18, 2017 9:58:35 GMT
The people who are satisfied with £22M for Arnie are the same people who've had a problem with him since he's walked through the door. They don't like him and they don't rate him, that's their look out. We can't force West Ham (or anyone else for that matter) to bid £30M for Arnie though can we? How does that make us "not very good at this sort of thing"? I wouldn't be happy with £22M and I think Stoke should reject it. But then we're left with a potential problem of a dissatisfied player and his snake of a brother and that's something the club have to consider when decided to accept or reject West Ham's next bid (if they make one of course). I can understand what you're saying dave but doesn't that set a hugely dangerous precedent for us? You hope players and agents have more integrity than the Arnautovic's but the message is clear kick off a bit, play a toxic card and Stoke are happy to let go under the market value and make it easy for you. It does set a precedent but how many times have we seen at other clubs that you can't make a player play. In the absence of competing offers we have to take what the hammers are prepared to pay.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 18, 2017 9:59:14 GMT
Fonz managed it for two years. We hold all of the cards here. He never rocked the boat though. And weren't you moaning about how we handled that deal as well? Dead easy this decision making when there's no consequences...... Yeah I'd have kept him for another year and let him go for nowt once it got to it...... We have to see Arnie for over 25m. If we don't we will look pushovers and will be about the only club in the top two divisions not selling their best players for a premium price. And that sets a bad precedent for when we should be getting 40m for Butland next summer.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 18, 2017 9:59:32 GMT
Fonz managed it for two years. We hold all of the cards here. He never rocked the boat though. And weren't you moaning about how we handled that deal as well? Dead easy this decision making when there's no consequences...... He handed a transfer request in more than once, I think thats pretty much rocking the boat.
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Post by itsajoytobeapotter on Jul 18, 2017 10:01:26 GMT
On paper sounds great. Won't happen. Fonz managed it for two years. We hold all of the cards here. Don't think we hold any cards. The Zonz transfer requests didn't have all the unpleasantness attached to this one. Team Arnie know they are forcing us to sell.
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cbwhu
Academy Starlet
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Post by cbwhu on Jul 18, 2017 10:01:27 GMT
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Post by hooftastic on Jul 18, 2017 10:02:20 GMT
He never rocked the boat though. And weren't you moaning about how we handled that deal as well? Dead easy this decision making when there's no consequences...... He handed a transfer request in more than once, I think thats pretty much rocking the boat. and had his Dad in the press touting him around.... a lot of history about N'Zonzi has been rewritten
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Jul 18, 2017 10:02:30 GMT
I dont think Stoke are doing this properly at all.
Swansea came out and stated what they would sell Siggurdsen for. Then EVERYTHING is clear to Everton, the fans and everyone in the media.
Whats so hard about Stoke saying in public we will only sell Arnautovic for 30 million.
Its a really simple solution that puts the ball back in West Ham's court. Sorry but Stoke are being idiots here in trying to negotiate behind closed doors when everyone else is being open about bids and player valuations.
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Post by scfc75 on Jul 18, 2017 10:03:36 GMT
On paper sounds great. Won't happen. Fonz managed it for two years. We hold all of the cards here. I don't remember Nzonzi's agent publicly accusing the club of being liars... this situation is far worse and he seems to have done his best to burn his bridges here. It's naive to think that he will be lining up for us at Everton and giving 100%.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 10:03:49 GMT
Excellent. And the fans will forgive him, chant his name and Arnautovic will put in maximum effort for the cause. And the dressing room will be harmonious and all will be well in the world. Or you end up wasting 12 months wage on a player who is a disruptive influence in the dressing room and who's stock ends up falling dramatically anyway. Once again though not as easy a judgement call as you always make it out to be....... That's sheer speculation. We managed it with Fonz for two years, so I can't see why we can't again. They pay 25m+ or he remains a Stoke player. It's that simple. It's all speculation. Expecting him to happily carry on as part of the team is speculation as well. Everything's simple in your world. Doesn't mean it actually is though....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 10:05:48 GMT
He never rocked the boat though. And weren't you moaning about how we handled that deal as well? Dead easy this decision making when there's no consequences...... Yeah I'd have kept him for another year and let him go for nowt once it got to it...... We have to see Arnie for over 25m. If we don't we will look pushovers and will be about the only club in the top two divisions not selling their best players for a premium price. And that sets a bad precedent for when we should be getting 40m for Butland next summer. If Butland has a good season there'll be a bidding war for him so will be a totally different scenario. A player is only worth what someone wants to pay.....
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 18, 2017 10:06:59 GMT
Fonz managed it for two years. We hold all of the cards here. Don't think we hold any cards. The Zonz transfer requests didn't have all the unpleasantness attached to this one. Team Arnie know they are forcing us to sell. He's under contract for the next years and we can name our price as we don't want to sell him. We hold all of the cards and if he doesn't dance to our tune then we fine him.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 18, 2017 10:07:44 GMT
That's sheer speculation. We managed it with Fonz for two years, so I can't see why we can't again. They pay 25m+ or he remains a Stoke player. It's that simple. It's all speculation. Expecting him to happily carry on as part of the team is speculation as well. Everything's simple in your world. Doesn't mean it actually is though.... I never said he would. If he doesn't you sanction him appropriately.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 10:08:37 GMT
He never rocked the boat though. And weren't you moaning about how we handled that deal as well? Dead easy this decision making when there's no consequences...... He handed a transfer request in more than once, I think thats pretty much rocking the boat. Handed in a transfer request, kept schtum and got on with the job in hand. Nowhere near the tactics implemented by Arnautovic's advisors.....
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 18, 2017 10:09:11 GMT
Fonz managed it for two years. We hold all of the cards here. I don't remember Nzonzi's agent publicly accusing the club of being liars... this situation is far worse and he seems to have done his best to burn his bridges here. It's naive to think that he will be lining up for us at Everton and giving 100%. His Dad did exactly that! They said the club had agreed to a contract extension after his first year and we never delivered on that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 10:09:55 GMT
It's all speculation. Expecting him to happily carry on as part of the team is speculation as well. Everything's simple in your world. Doesn't mean it actually is though.... I never said he would. If he doesn't you sanction him appropriately. And then the £30m you're holding out for gets slashed in half in 12 months....
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Post by unknown182 on Jul 18, 2017 10:16:24 GMT
I hope we make a couple of "ambitious" signings in the meantime. Then Arnie might have second thoughts before we tell him to piss off.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 18, 2017 10:16:52 GMT
I never said he would. If he doesn't you sanction him appropriately. And then the £30m you're holding out for gets slashed in half in 12 months.... Still contracted for another 2 years and if he plays out of his skin then it doesn't. 😂
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 18, 2017 10:18:08 GMT
About the fee I thought we'd end up with. But still going with the 20% sell-on line which German sources maintain is utter bullshit. I still think if he's being paid £100,000-a-week (which he must be, you'd think, to make the move attractive), something is severely wrong. But, then again,we knew that already.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 10:21:07 GMT
And then the £30m you're holding out for gets slashed in half in 12 months.... Still contracted for another 2 years and if he plays out of his skin then it doesn't. 😂 I'm Arnie's biggest fan. And I think he's arguably worth £30m. But with all the factors would I take £25m, give Sobhi an extended run in the team and reinvest the money in the team? Yes probably under the circumstances, Arnie's character doesn't bode well for him dusting himself down and forgetting all of this happened. If it does I'll be happy as larry, but I totally get the clubs dilemma as they're hardly queuing round the block for him.....
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Post by nott1 on Jul 18, 2017 10:21:20 GMT
What makes them think he's a striker?
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cbwhu
Academy Starlet
Posts: 155
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Post by cbwhu on Jul 18, 2017 10:22:37 GMT
About the fee I thought we'd end up with. But still going with the 20% sell-on line which German sources maintain is utter bullshit. I still think if he's being paid £100,000-a-week (which he must be, you'd think, to make the move attractive), something is severely wrong. But, then again,we knew that already. I would imagine his basic will be less but with big bonuses. That's what we're doing/trying to do with Hernandez anyway
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