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Post by essexstokey on Jun 16, 2017 19:37:55 GMT
Fire Brigades Union general secretary Matt Wrack has been addressing a protest in Westminster, central London, demanding answers over the Grenfell disaster. He has said that the brigade is grappling with the legacy of cuts including station closures and the removal of fire engines. Which beggars belief to how so many engines got there in 8 minutes or so that I had seen reported. It would be how much back up is available when a large incident is going on. Luckily ( I know the wrong word in this tragedy) It was in the early hours of the morning at 12.30ish onwards if it had been earlier say till 10 it would have been a lot different due to the traffic around London and the grid lock that occurs
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 19:38:57 GMT
Yes that's the one. Gavin Barwell. Not trying anything. Just stating a fact. What 'fact'? The 'fact' that I never mentioned anything about the person in question and only enquired what question he'd been asked? The fact that Gavin Barwell is all you've discussed on this thread, yes.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jun 16, 2017 19:41:17 GMT
What 'fact'? The 'fact' that I never mentioned anything about the person in question and only enquired what question he'd been asked? The fact that Gavin Barwell is all you've discussed on this thread, yes. That's still an incorrect fact. All I've done on this thread is asked what the question was which Essex said he "refussed" to answer. It was a simple question, nothing to do with politics. So as I said, nice try.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 19:46:38 GMT
The fact that Gavin Barwell is all you've discussed on this thread, yes. That's still an incorrect fact. All I've done on this thread is asked what the question was which Essex said he "refussed" to answer. It was a simple question, nothing to do with politics. So as I said, nice try. Righto.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jun 16, 2017 19:48:11 GMT
That's still an incorrect fact. All I've done on this thread is asked what the question was which Essex said he "refussed" to answer. It was a simple question, nothing to do with politics. So as I said, nice try. Righto. I'm guessing that's as close to an apology as I'm going to get
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 16, 2017 19:52:36 GMT
So has the Mayor not been monitoring properly or are the FBU lying by trying to bring cuts into it ? It's only after the fire that this has been bought up. Now you cast innuendo about the integrity of the first responders. What was it you said earlier about 'just when you thought they couldn't get any lower', or whatever it was? No I cast doubt on the FBU leaders using this for political ends, a typical snide misrepresentation by you. I notice on virtually any thread you contribute next to nothing except snidey comments, it gets very boring which is why so few people bother with you.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 20:05:34 GMT
I'm guessing that's as close to an apology as I'm going to get It's nowhere near that I'm afraid
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 20:14:35 GMT
Now you cast innuendo about the integrity of the first responders. What was it you said earlier about 'just when you thought they couldn't get any lower', or whatever it was? No I cast doubt on the FBU leaders using this for political ends, a typical snide misrepresentation by you. I notice on virtually any thread you contribute next to nothing except snidey comments, it gets very boring which is why so few people bother with you. Wrong. You cast doubt on the Fire Brigades Union leaders, you cast doubt on fire brigades. The clue as to who the leaders represent is in the name of the union. No misrepresentation on my part. Just you still prioritising bashing Labour - and anyone, even emergency responders - who dare to question the status quo or suggest that this event might have been avoidable.
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 16, 2017 20:23:21 GMT
No I cast doubt on the FBU leaders using this for political ends, a typical snide misrepresentation by you. I notice on virtually any thread you contribute next to nothing except snidey comments, it gets very boring which is why so few people bother with you. Wrong. You cast doubt on the Fire Brigades Union leaders, you cast doubt on fire brigades. The clue as to who the leaders represent is in the name of the union. No misrepresentation on my part. Just you still prioritising bashing Labour - and anyone, even emergency responders - who dare to question the status quo or suggest that this event might have been avoidable. More utter horseshite from you, it's pretty obvious this will have been avoidable if different decisions had been made. I've watched an interview with one of the firefighters who went in, most are still too upset to talk about it, he's talking about the victims they couldn't save the FBU are trying to link this to cuts for political ends before the cause has even been established.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 16, 2017 20:30:57 GMT
On a separate issue to this fire I've stepped in on a couple of fire strikes. As good as the fire men are their union is as political as it can be
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Post by serpico on Jun 16, 2017 20:31:23 GMT
the hate being whipped up on the left in the UK is reminiscent of whats going on in the US where we just saw a bernie sanders supporter open fire on a bunch of republican senators playing baseball, theres obviously labour party linked provocateurs on the ground in Kensington handing out anti Tory placards and they're directing a mob of people to storm the council offices.
imo Corbyn and his associates are very dangerous people, they've been travelling the country stirring up tensions all over the place IE by telling young kids that they've had their futures stolen from them by older folk, as if the future is something that is given to you on a plate and not something you have to work for, this fosters a sense of entitlement and victimhood and we saw what that did during the Tottenham riots, kids breaking in clothes shops and electrical stores and afterwards justifying it all by saying the people who own the stores can afford it.
Now labour operatives are out exploiting this latest tragedy handing out placards with "tory scum have blood on their hands" , god knows where this ends.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 16, 2017 20:39:48 GMT
the hate being whipped up on the left in the UK is reminiscent of whats going on in the US where we just saw a bernie sanders supporter open fire on a bunch of republican senators playing baseball, theres obviously labour party linked provocateurs on the ground in Kensington handing out anti Tory placards and they're directing a mob of people to storm the council offices. imo Corbyn and his associates are very dangerous people, they've been travelling the country stirring up tensions all over the place IE by telling young kids that they've had their futures stolen from them by older folk, as if the future is something that is given to you on a plate and not something you have to work for, this fosters a sense of entitlement and victimhood and we saw what that did during the Tottenham riots, kids breaking in clothes shops and electrical stores and afterwards justifying it all by saying the people who own the stores can afford it. Now labour operatives are out exploiting this latest tragedy handing out placards with "tory scum have blood on their hands" , god knows where this ends. This is the thing serps. I've followed you on this board for nearly 10 years and you are as anti Tory and pro revolution as the next man but usually speak sense. It's been quite surprising to see you be as anti labour as you have been the last few weeks especially as your posting history isn't as regular as it once was Without wishing to offend starkiller. You are like him without the conspiracy theory The new left posters on this board will throw the "Tory boy" shit at you like they do anyone else who doesn't agree with the Corbyn left agenda Keep up the good work
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jun 16, 2017 20:43:10 GMT
the hate being whipped up on the left in the UK is reminiscent of whats going on in the US where we just saw a bernie sanders supporter open fire on a bunch of republican senators playing baseball, theres obviously labour party linked provocateurs on the ground in Kensington handing out anti Tory placards and they're directing a mob of people to storm the council offices. imo Corbyn and his associates are very dangerous people, they've been travelling the country stirring up tensions all over the place IE by telling young kids that they've had their futures stolen from them by older folk, as if the future is something that is given to you on a plate and not something you have to work for, this fosters a sense of entitlement and victimhood and we saw what that did during the Tottenham riots, kids breaking in clothes shops and electrical stores and afterwards justifying it all by saying the people who own the stores can afford it. Now labour operatives are out exploiting this latest tragedy handing out placards with "tory scum have blood on their hands" , god knows where this ends. Funnily enough it was only earlier this evening that I was going to make a post saying that I'll give it untill the end of the year untill some far-left nutjob commits an act of terrorism in this country. This 'Corbynsim' (For want of a better word) is getting seriously out-of-hand. They're throwing around these words like 'divisive', 'hatred', 'intolerant' & 'Nazis', whilst simultaneously being the most hate-filled, intolerant, fascists this country has ever seen.
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Post by essexstokey on Jun 16, 2017 20:43:19 GMT
the hate being whipped up on the left in the UK is reminiscent of whats going on in the US where we just saw a bernie sanders supporter open fire on a bunch of republican senators playing baseball, theres obviously labour party linked provocateurs on the ground in Kensington handing out anti Tory placards and they're directing a mob of people to storm the council offices. imo Corbyn and his associates are very dangerous people, they've been travelling the country stirring up tensions all over the place IE by telling young kids that they've had their futures stolen from them by older folk, as if the future is something that is given to you on a plate and not something you have to work for, this fosters a sense of entitlement and victimhood and we saw what that did during the Tottenham riots, kids breaking in clothes shops and electrical stores and afterwards justifying it all by saying the people who own the stores can afford it. Now labour operatives are out exploiting this latest tragedy handing out placards with "tory scum have blood on their hands" , god knows where this ends. There is a distinct difference between the far left anarchists and swp and even where corbin and the Labour party are to link the two is just tory propaganda
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Post by xchpotter on Jun 16, 2017 20:44:08 GMT
The fire service like the police and ambulance have had cuts. The problem with them unlike the police and ambulance is that the demand on them is not constant and aside from checking smoke alarms, supporting the ambulance service and community engagement, it is difficult to measure what else they do and often they become a standing army. When nothing is going on its right to question what they do, but when they are needed they attend (unlike the police and ambulance who have other constant emergencies to deal with) so despite the hysterical fever pitch political posturing, the levels seem about right. The powers to move toward a joint police and fire commissioner suggest there isn't the greatest value for money in fire services all of the time. I suppose you never miss what you don't have until you need them.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 16, 2017 20:44:22 GMT
the hate being whipped up on the left in the UK is reminiscent of whats going on in the US where we just saw a bernie sanders supporter open fire on a bunch of republican senators playing baseball, theres obviously labour party linked provocateurs on the ground in Kensington handing out anti Tory placards and they're directing a mob of people to storm the council offices. imo Corbyn and his associates are very dangerous people, they've been travelling the country stirring up tensions all over the place IE by telling young kids that they've had their futures stolen from them by older folk, as if the future is something that is given to you on a plate and not something you have to work for, this fosters a sense of entitlement and victimhood and we saw what that did during the Tottenham riots, kids breaking in clothes shops and electrical stores and afterwards justifying it all by saying the people who own the stores can afford it. Now labour operatives are out exploiting this latest tragedy handing out placards with "tory scum have blood on their hands" , god knows where this ends. There is a distinct difference between the far left anarchists and swp and even where corbin and the Labour party are to link the two is just tory propaganda Told you serpico
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 20:45:01 GMT
Wrong. You cast doubt on the Fire Brigades Union leaders, you cast doubt on fire brigades. The clue as to who the leaders represent is in the name of the union. No misrepresentation on my part. Just you still prioritising bashing Labour - and anyone, even emergency responders - who dare to question the status quo or suggest that this event might have been avoidable. More utter horseshite from you, it's pretty obvious this will have been avoidable if different decisions had been made. I've watched an interview with one of the firefighters who went in, most are still too upset to talk about it, he's talking about the victims they couldn't save the FBU are trying to link this to cuts for political ends before the cause has even been established. First time you've acknowledged it was probably avoidable. You're making progress. Like it or not, the FBU represents fire brigades. Personally, I'll not be accusing them of playing politics until we know more about the ins and outs of the firefighting phase of this disaster. At this point, all we know is all the first responders showed great bravery.
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Post by essexstokey on Jun 16, 2017 20:45:23 GMT
We've used specialist search dogs at #GrenfellTower. They're lighter than humans and can cover a large area quickly
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 20:47:43 GMT
the hate being whipped up on the left in the UK is reminiscent of whats going on in the US where we just saw a bernie sanders supporter open fire on a bunch of republican senators playing baseball, theres obviously labour party linked provocateurs on the ground in Kensington handing out anti Tory placards and they're directing a mob of people to storm the council offices. imo Corbyn and his associates are very dangerous people, they've been travelling the country stirring up tensions all over the place IE by telling young kids that they've had their futures stolen from them by older folk, as if the future is something that is given to you on a plate and not something you have to work for, this fosters a sense of entitlement and victimhood and we saw what that did during the Tottenham riots, kids breaking in clothes shops and electrical stores and afterwards justifying it all by saying the people who own the stores can afford it. Now labour operatives are out exploiting this latest tragedy handing out placards with "tory scum have blood on their hands" , god knows where this ends. Funnily enough it was only earlier this evening that I was going to make a post saying that I'll give it untill the end of the year untill some far-left nutjob commits an act of terrorism in this country. This 'Corbynsim' (For want of a better word) is getting seriously out-of-hand. They're throwing around these words like 'divisive', 'hatred', 'intolerant' & 'Nazis', whilst simultaneously being the most hate-filled, intolerant, fascists this country has ever seen. So Jeremy Corbyn supporters are the most hate-filled, intolerant, fascists this country has ever seen? Ever? Really? You're off your rocker.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 20:51:38 GMT
the hate being whipped up on the left in the UK is reminiscent of whats going on in the US where we just saw a bernie sanders supporter open fire on a bunch of republican senators playing baseball, theres obviously labour party linked provocateurs on the ground in Kensington handing out anti Tory placards and they're directing a mob of people to storm the council offices. imo Corbyn and his associates are very dangerous people, they've been travelling the country stirring up tensions all over the place IE by telling young kids that they've had their futures stolen from them by older folk, as if the future is something that is given to you on a plate and not something you have to work for, this fosters a sense of entitlement and victimhood and we saw what that did during the Tottenham riots, kids breaking in clothes shops and electrical stores and afterwards justifying it all by saying the people who own the stores can afford it. Now labour operatives are out exploiting this latest tragedy handing out placards with "tory scum have blood on their hands" , god knows where this ends. If you can show any evidence that Labour operatives are directing mobs to storm council offices or handing out placards with that message on them, then I quite agree. That's totally out of order. Especially at this sensitive time. Do you have any evidence I can see please?
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Post by serpico on Jun 16, 2017 20:52:01 GMT
the hate being whipped up on the left in the UK is reminiscent of whats going on in the US where we just saw a bernie sanders supporter open fire on a bunch of republican senators playing baseball, theres obviously labour party linked provocateurs on the ground in Kensington handing out anti Tory placards and they're directing a mob of people to storm the council offices. imo Corbyn and his associates are very dangerous people, they've been travelling the country stirring up tensions all over the place IE by telling young kids that they've had their futures stolen from them by older folk, as if the future is something that is given to you on a plate and not something you have to work for, this fosters a sense of entitlement and victimhood and we saw what that did during the Tottenham riots, kids breaking in clothes shops and electrical stores and afterwards justifying it all by saying the people who own the stores can afford it. Now labour operatives are out exploiting this latest tragedy handing out placards with "tory scum have blood on their hands" , god knows where this ends. This is the thing serps. I've followed you on this board for nearly 10 years and you are as anti Tory and pro revolution as the next man but usually speak sense. It's been quite surprising to see you be as anti labour as you have been the last few weeks especially as your posting history isn't as regular as it once was The new left posters on this board will throw the "Tory boy" shot at you like they do anyone else who doesn't agree with the Corbyn left agenda Keep up the good work i opposed labour under blair because of his foreign interventions, i oppose corbyn because of his proposed domestic interventions i've always been antiwar, anti big government, never voted labour in my life and only voted tory this time reluctantly, i don't think any of these parties stand for what they purport to, the tories are far from true conservatives these days and labour wants to decimate jobs with high taxes or make everyone dependent on the state, there's a lot of talk of "the return of the two parties" but in essence they're both statist parties with statist solutions.
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Post by bathstoke on Jun 16, 2017 20:55:37 GMT
the hate being whipped up on the left in the UK is reminiscent of whats going on in the US where we just saw a bernie sanders supporter open fire on a bunch of republican senators playing baseball, theres obviously labour party linked provocateurs on the ground in Kensington handing out anti Tory placards and they're directing a mob of people to storm the council offices. imo Corbyn and his associates are very dangerous people, they've been travelling the country stirring up tensions all over the place IE by telling young kids that they've had their futures stolen from them by older folk, as if the future is something that is given to you on a plate and not something you have to work for, this fosters a sense of entitlement and victimhood and we saw what that did during the Tottenham riots, kids breaking in clothes shops and electrical stores and afterwards justifying it all by saying the people who own the stores can afford it. Now labour operatives are out exploiting this latest tragedy handing out placards with "tory scum have blood on their hands" , God knows where this ends. We all have blood on our hands, but the baby boomers have more. They grew up with having everything go their way. I'm not saying that they didn't do anything good, cause they did loads. However, Whilsts some where doing good, some where taking advantage of liberalised laws & becoming big Billy B%!!%#&$. This fire got out of control. How do you fancy Brexit could get out of control, cause it will.
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 16, 2017 21:03:57 GMT
More utter horseshite from you, it's pretty obvious this will have been avoidable if different decisions had been made. I've watched an interview with one of the firefighters who went in, most are still too upset to talk about it, he's talking about the victims they couldn't save the FBU are trying to link this to cuts for political ends before the cause has even been established. First time you've acknowledged it was probably avoidable. You're making progress. Like it or not, the FBU represents fire brigades. Personally, I'll not be accusing them of playing politics until we know more about the ins and outs of the firefighting phase of this disaster. At this point, all we know is all the first responders showed great bravery. You need people to state the obvious to you says a lot about you really, until they know the cause of the fire its simply not possible to say what is too blame so to say it is due to the cuts is blindingly obvious they are playing politics.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 21:04:35 GMT
the hate being whipped up on the left in the UK is reminiscent of whats going on in the US where we just saw a bernie sanders supporter open fire on a bunch of republican senators playing baseball, theres obviously labour party linked provocateurs on the ground in Kensington handing out anti Tory placards and they're directing a mob of people to storm the council offices. imo Corbyn and his associates are very dangerous people, they've been travelling the country stirring up tensions all over the place IE by telling young kids that they've had their futures stolen from them by older folk, as if the future is something that is given to you on a plate and not something you have to work for, this fosters a sense of entitlement and victimhood and we saw what that did during the Tottenham riots, kids breaking in clothes shops and electrical stores and afterwards justifying it all by saying the people who own the stores can afford it. Now labour operatives are out exploiting this latest tragedy handing out placards with "tory scum have blood on their hands" , God knows where this ends. We all have blood on our hands, but the baby boomers have more. They grew up with having everything go their way. I'm not saying that they didn't do anything good, cause they did loads. However, Whilsts some where doing good, some where taking advantage of liberalised laws & becoming big Billy B%!!%#&$. This fire got out of control. How do you fancy Brexit could get out of control, cause it will. In fairness, Jeremy Corbyn has quite emphatically not tried to whip up young kids against older folk either. Every speech I've seen him give, he quite clearly talks about young and old working together. There's misinformation coming from many angles right now.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jun 16, 2017 21:05:10 GMT
The fact that Gavin Barwell is all you've discussed on this thread, yes. That's still an incorrect fact. All I've done on this thread is asked what the question was which Essex said he "refussed" to answer. It was a simple question, nothing to do with politics. So as I said, nice try. The question was "why did you sit on the fire report?" In relation to this: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/grenfell-tower-fire-may-s-aide-gavin-barwell-sat-on-safety-review-x0t763kv0He was asked further questions including are you going to release the report and could this have been avoided. His response speaks volumes.
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josh
Academy Starlet
Posts: 102
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Post by josh on Jun 16, 2017 21:05:38 GMT
the hate being whipped up on the left in the UK is reminiscent of whats going on in the US where we just saw a bernie sanders supporter open fire on a bunch of republican senators playing baseball, theres obviously labour party linked provocateurs on the ground in Kensington handing out anti Tory placards and they're directing a mob of people to storm the council offices. imo Corbyn and his associates are very dangerous people, they've been travelling the country stirring up tensions all over the place IE by telling young kids that they've had their futures stolen from them by older folk, as if the future is something that is given to you on a plate and not something you have to work for, this fosters a sense of entitlement and victimhood and we saw what that did during the Tottenham riots, kids breaking in clothes shops and electrical stores and afterwards justifying it all by saying the people who own the stores can afford it. Now labour operatives are out exploiting this latest tragedy handing out placards with "tory scum have blood on their hands" , god knows where this ends. Are you for real? Those people who have lost their friends and family have the right to be angry. They don't need to be 'provoked'. This should never of happened. People have been let down by successive governments, it just happens to be May in charge now. People want to be listened to, after feeling they've been ignored when something could of been done to stop this. Just because May was too scared of the confrontation doesn't mean corbyn was wrong to show up. It shows he cares, wants to listen and help if he can. May chickened out. That was the wrong thing to do, she should of taken charge, faced the music and accepted a bit of flack to avoid the anger that's happening now. Kensington has people from both ends of the scale. The very rich and the very poor. With the Tories in charge of the council I can imagine who gets forgotten about and who gets listened to. This is what happens when your suppress people, don't engage with them and appear to only look after a certain class of society.
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Post by bathstoke on Jun 16, 2017 21:06:42 GMT
We all have blood on our hands, but the baby boomers have more. They grew up with having everything go their way. I'm not saying that they didn't do anything good, cause they did loads. However, Whilsts some where doing good, some where taking advantage of liberalised laws & becoming big Billy B%!!%#&$. This fire got out of control. How do you fancy Brexit could get out of control, cause it will. In fairness, Jeremy Corbyn has quite emphatically not tried to whip up young kids against older folk either. Every speech I've seen him give, he quite clearly talks about young and old working together. There's misinformation coming from many angles right now. Good for himXx
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Post by manmarking on Jun 16, 2017 21:12:22 GMT
First time you've acknowledged it was probably avoidable. You're making progress. Like it or not, the FBU represents fire brigades. Personally, I'll not be accusing them of playing politics until we know more about the ins and outs of the firefighting phase of this disaster. At this point, all we know is all the first responders showed great bravery. You need people to state the obvious to you says a lot about you really, until they know the cause of the fire its simply not possible to say what is too blame so to say it is due to the cuts is blindingly obvious they are playing politics. No it says a lot more about you than me, fyd. You're more interested in defending your political party than anything else. Even the right wing media outlets aren't casting the aspersions or spreading the innuendo you are.
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Post by essexstokey on Jun 16, 2017 21:18:18 GMT
First time you've acknowledged it was probably avoidable. You're making progress. Like it or not, the FBU represents fire brigades. Personally, I'll not be accusing them of playing politics until we know more about the ins and outs of the firefighting phase of this disaster. At this point, all we know is all the first responders showed great bravery. You need people to state the obvious to you says a lot about you really, until they know the cause of the fire its simply not possible to say what is too blame so to say it is due to the cuts is blindingly obvious they are playing politics. like climate change we know it exists but until we know everything we should do nothing no we should start now in this case we should fit all tower blocks with sprinklers not wait 2 years or more for recommendations and also stop cladding tower blocks until we know more
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Post by salopstick on Jun 16, 2017 21:19:30 GMT
We all have blood on our hands, but the baby boomers have more. They grew up with having everything go their way. I'm not saying that they didn't do anything good, cause they did loads. However, Whilsts some where doing good, some where taking advantage of liberalised laws & becoming big Billy B%!!%#&$. This fire got out of control. How do you fancy Brexit could get out of control, cause it will. In fairness, Jeremy Corbyn has quite emphatically not tried to whip up young kids against older folk either. Every speech I've seen him give, he quite clearly talks about young and old working together. There's misinformation coming from many angles right now. he leaves that to momentum
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