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Post by henry on Feb 28, 2019 16:53:58 GMT
Have any politicians, JC in particular, actually come out and said what they will do if there is a 2nd referendum and the result is pretty much the same as the 1st one. ?
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 28, 2019 16:59:16 GMT
Have any politicians, JC in particular, actually come out and said what they will do if there is a 2nd referendum and the result is pretty much the same as the 1st one. ? Even if it's 52-48 the other way, it doesn't really solve much as far as national unity goes. A rerun of the previous referendum is only beneficial if it ends in a very decent majority for one side - say 60% or over. I'm not convinced it will end like that though. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 28, 2019 17:09:28 GMT
Have any politicians, JC in particular, actually come out and said what they will do if there is a 2nd referendum and the result is pretty much the same as the 1st one. ? Even if it's 52-48 the other way, it doesn't really solve much as far as national unity goes. A rerun of the previous referendum is only beneficial if it ends in a very decent majority for one side - say 60% or over. I'm not convinced it will end like that though. I actually agree with you there Rip....and I think it is disingenuous to believe that another Referendum would " bring the nation together". It could have the absolute opposite effect, not just the result but the question of the question and the campaigns and the post decison wrangling ( The question " Did people really really know what they voted for?" can always be raised following a vote). Personally my guess is that the majority of people have not changed their mind so the result will be close, not decisive, depending on the question. Where we might disagree, those asking for a referendum are those who can't accept the result of the previous referendum and simply want another Referendum in order to reverse the decision... nothing less. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2019 17:09:52 GMT
I dread to think how bitter and acrimonious the atmosphere in the country will become before, during, and afterwards if (when) Parliament do vote for a second referendum. The country is split now but if another referendum is to happen I think factions of the leave voters will (possibly quite rightly) resort to demonstrating almost like the gilets jaunes in France.
Politics is broken in this country and democracy is well and truly dead - what have they got to lose by protesting and making their displeasure known ?
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Post by Absolution on Feb 28, 2019 17:17:02 GMT
I dread to think how bitter and acrimonious the atmosphere in the country will become before, during, and afterwards if (when) Parliament do vote for a second referendum. The country is split now but if another referendum is to happen I think factions of the leave voters will (possibly quite rightly) resort to demonstrating almost like the gilets jaunes in France. Politics is broken in this country and democracy is well and truly dead - what have they got to lose by protesting and making their displeasure known ? If this happened, they couldn't even be told that peaceful protest is the way forward seeing as winning a bastard referendum wouldn't have been enough. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 28, 2019 17:18:44 GMT
Even if it's 52-48 the other way, it doesn't really solve much as far as national unity goes. A rerun of the previous referendum is only beneficial if it ends in a very decent majority for one side - say 60% or over. I'm not convinced it will end like that though. I actually agree with you there Rip....and I think it is disingenuous to believe that another Referendum would " bring the nation together". It could have the absolute opposite effect, not just the result but the question of the question and the campaigns and the post decison wrangling ( The question " Did people really really know what they voted for?" can always be raised following a vote). Personally my guess is that the majority of people have not changed their mind so the result will be close, not decisive, depending on the question. Where we might disagree, those asking for a referendum are those who can't accept the result of the previous referendum and simply want another Referendum in order to reverse the decision... nothing less. On the final point, it would all depend on what the question was whether I'd agree with you or not. Lets see what is proposed, if it does indeed happen. |
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Post by salopstick on Feb 28, 2019 17:21:53 GMT
All stems from Gove regardless of what you think of Boris The nation moaned for years for a EU Referenum. Cameron delivered. That’s fair play He did the right thing by resigning when he lost. I’m not saying Boris is great but if Gove hadn’t stabbed him in the back we wouldn’t be left with a remain supporting Prime Minister. Party politics are to blame for this. The Labour Party in a different way the same. Corbyn should have told his remain MPs lots of in Leave areas to suck it up and support leave. The actual terms of leaving is a whole different debate I think that Boris (like most of us I suspect) didn't expect 'Leave' to win and so started looking for a way out almost straight away. Gove simply handed the opportunity to him. If he'd really believed in the cause Boris would have stood his ground and taken Gove on. Boris bottled it because he had no idea what he was going to do if he did actually become PM. (I'm not sure he's any different now). goves a very clever man. Boris should have been his number 2 |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Feb 28, 2019 17:27:05 GMT
I actually agree with you there Rip....and I think it is disingenuous to believe that another Referendum would " bring the nation together". It could have the absolute opposite effect, not just the result but the question of the question and the campaigns and the post decison wrangling ( The question " Did people really really know what they voted for?" can always be raised following a vote). Personally my guess is that the majority of people have not changed their mind so the result will be close, not decisive, depending on the question. Where we might disagree, those asking for a referendum are those who can't accept the result of the previous referendum and simply want another Referendum in order to reverse the decision... nothing less. On the final point, it would all depend on what the question was whether I'd agree with you or not. Lets see what is proposed, if it does indeed happen. If it includes Remain it isn't finding out what kind of Brexit people voted for, it's a rerun as BJR said. What should have happened is all Brexit voters should have been branded(literally, not metaphorically) with a big B. Then, we could have all marched, knuckles dragging to the polling stations to decide on types of Brexit. |
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Post by xchpotter on Feb 28, 2019 17:28:50 GMT
I dread to think how bitter and acrimonious the atmosphere in the country will become before, during, and afterwards if (when) Parliament do vote for a second referendum. The country is split now but if another referendum is to happen I think factions of the leave voters will (possibly quite rightly) resort to demonstrating almost like the gilets jaunes in France. Politics is broken in this country and democracy is well and truly dead - what have they got to lose by protesting and making their displeasure known ? If this happened, they couldn't even be told that peaceful protest is the way forward seeing as winning a bastard referendum wouldn't have been enough. I think you are right. I can foresee a lot of direct action and inevitable violence. I have no doubt though that it will be apportioned to the nasty right wingers by Remainers and the media. It will however be self inflicted for those who have played their part, big or small, in over turning a democratic process. They fully deserve what comes their way. |
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Post by Billy the kid on Feb 28, 2019 17:36:06 GMT
We all knew we would end up in this situation sadly Westminster hasn't disappointed, we will not get brexit I'm almost sure of it, and with that will be the last time I vote
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Post by yeokel on Feb 28, 2019 17:49:19 GMT
I think that Boris (like most of us I suspect) didn't expect 'Leave' to win and so started looking for a way out almost straight away. Gove simply handed the opportunity to him. If he'd really believed in the cause Boris would have stood his ground and taken Gove on. Boris bottled it because he had no idea what he was going to do if he did actually become PM. (I'm not sure he's any different now). goves a very clever man. Boris should have been his number 2 I tend to agree. Gove speaks a lot of sense (as he did when he was at Education too) but I'm not sure that he ranks particularly highly in the popularity stakes within the Tory party so might have found it difficult to drag them along with him. I'm also suspicious of him at the moment. He currently seems a little too ready to back May's "deal" and isn't really fighting for the kind of Brexit that I feel we voted for, or that he campaigned for. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2019 18:09:35 GMT
I think that Boris (like most of us I suspect) didn't expect 'Leave' to win and so started looking for a way out almost straight away. Gove simply handed the opportunity to him. If he'd really believed in the cause Boris would have stood his ground and taken Gove on. Boris bottled it because he had no idea what he was going to do if he did actually become PM. (I'm not sure he's any different now). goves a very clever man. Boris should have been his number 2 I agree that Gove is clever. He also speaks very well to. Sadly he's a slimey cuntrag of a man that you could trust about as much as theresa May.....Boris is next. Only Tory I would trust is mogg....and I'm not 100% sure on him |
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Post by harryburrows on Mar 1, 2019 4:01:55 GMT
goves a very clever man. Boris should have been his number 2 I agree that Gove is clever. He also speaks very well to. Sadly he's a slimey cuntrag of a man that you could trust about as much as theresa May.....Boris is next. Only Tory I would trust is mogg....and I'm not 100% sure on him Boris didn't declare his campaigning intentions until the 11 th hour before the referendum , sitting on the fence for I can only assume were political reasons . |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 1, 2019 8:29:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 8:51:20 GMT
He's got it spot on ! We've all known all along it's the bloody politicians who are determined to overturn Brexit. |
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Post by salopstick on Mar 1, 2019 9:00:29 GMT
He's got it spot on ! We've all known all along it's the bloody politicians who are determined to overturn Brexit. Print it on a leaflet, put it on a tape, put some music behind it And put it through every letter box in the UK |
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Post by yeokel on Mar 1, 2019 9:56:15 GMT
Excellent article - Great find BJR As said by Salop, this should be printed and leaflet dropped to every address in Great Britain, starting with 10 Downing Street, London, SW1A 2AA. |
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Mar 1, 2019 10:14:47 GMT
No deal? No problem
Britain must hold its nerve
Tony Abbott
2 March 2019 9:00 AM Fake news! 
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 1, 2019 11:41:54 GMT
"It's a bit of a waste of beans"  |
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Post by murphthesurf on Mar 1, 2019 13:06:20 GMT
Superb article, thx for posting, BJ, and the graphic of the Union Flag butterfly emerging from the EU box is brilliant. The text + the graphic should both be plastered all over the place for the next few weeks.
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Post by potteringermany on Mar 1, 2019 14:02:29 GMT
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 1, 2019 15:04:18 GMT
I guess we're all happy with foreign politicians butting into British politics now they're saying something you agree with?
There's an unpolitically correct saying in Italian that goes "It's easy to be gay with someone else's arse." It means that it's easy to be bold and courageous when you yourself have nothing at stake. It came back to me when reading Tony Abbott's article.
It should be remembered that Abbott is hugely against independence for Australia from the UK. It would appear he is far more conservative when it comes to his own country, but full of big talk when he's got nothing to lose. He's happy to swear his allegiance to Queen Elizabeth, but lecture other countries about sovereignty.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 1, 2019 15:05:16 GMT
I don't think that they dispute that Australia is a free independent Sovereign country that does not have to agree to the directives and regulations from Brussels, agree to the four freedoms and amalgamate with New Zealand....in a way you and the experts make his point for him.... Britain cannot possibly be independent, who do we think we are |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 1, 2019 15:10:13 GMT
Brexit: EU rejects no deal citizens rights call The EU has rejected calls for an agreement to protect UK and EU expats' rights, if there is a no-deal Brexit.Brexit: Spain to give Britons rights under no deal Spain's cabinet has approved measures for Britons in Spain to continue living there as now if the UK leaves the EU without a deal.Mr Borrell said the decision was aimed at protecting the interests of Spanish and British citizens as well as trade between the two countries.Within 4 hours of each other. Oh dear.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Mar 1, 2019 15:17:21 GMT
Brexit: EU rejects no deal citizens rights call The EU has rejected calls for an agreement to protect UK and EU expats' rights, if there is a no-deal Brexit.Brexit: Spain to give Britons rights under no deal Spain's cabinet has approved measures for Britons in Spain to continue living there as now if the UK leaves the EU without a deal.Mr Borrell said the decision was aimed at protecting the interests of Spanish and British citizens as well as trade between the two countries.Within 4 hours of each other. Oh dear. In all fairness, they are two different stories. The plan outlined in article 2 is a Spanish specific contingency plan. The first article refers to a blanket arrangement covering the whole of the EU. It's also dependent on us offering the same deal for Spaniards in the UK. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 1, 2019 15:18:39 GMT
I guess we're all happy with foreign politicians butting into British politics now they're saying something you agree with? There's an unpolitically correct saying in Italian that goes "It's easy to be gay with someone else's arse." It means that it's easy to be bold and courageous when you yourself have nothing at stake. It came back to me when reading Tony Abbott's article. It should be remembered that Abbott is hugely against independence for Australia from the UK. It would appear he is far more conservative when it comes to his own country, but full of big talk when he's got nothing to lose. He's happy to swear his allegiance to Queen Elizabeth, but lecture other countries about sovereignty. Or conversely, we are against an opinion from the outside, if it is something that we don't agree with. I think one of the first outsiders was the great independent contribution from Obama warning us that we would be back of the queue, or was it line......do as you are told UK |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 1, 2019 15:23:12 GMT
Brexit: EU rejects no deal citizens rights call The EU has rejected calls for an agreement to protect UK and EU expats' rights, if there is a no-deal Brexit.Brexit: Spain to give Britons rights under no deal Spain's cabinet has approved measures for Britons in Spain to continue living there as now if the UK leaves the EU without a deal.Mr Borrell said the decision was aimed at protecting the interests of Spanish and British citizens as well as trade between the two countries.Within 4 hours of each other. Oh dear. In all fairness, they are two different stories. The plan outlined in article 2 is a Spanish specific contingency plan. The first article refers to a blanket arrangement covering the whole of the EU. It's also dependent on us offering the same deal for Spaniards in the UK. In all fairness that's total bollocks. We've already said EU citizens in the UK post Brexit will have the same pre-Brexit rights. So who wins the sovereignty battle? Spain to have it's own contingency plan or the EU overlords? Separadores Españoles! |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 1, 2019 15:28:54 GMT
I guess we're all happy with foreign politicians butting into British politics now they're saying something you agree with? There's an unpolitically correct saying in Italian that goes "It's easy to be gay with someone else's arse." It means that it's easy to be bold and courageous when you yourself have nothing at stake. It came back to me when reading Tony Abbott's article. It should be remembered that Abbott is hugely against independence for Australia from the UK. It would appear he is far more conservative when it comes to his own country, but full of big talk when he's got nothing to lose. He's happy to swear his allegiance to Queen Elizabeth, but lecture other countries about sovereignty. You could say the same about Sturgeon and Ian Blackford, though. OK for them to want independence, but not us. The more I hear from the EU, the only reason for staying is that it's a bastard to get out of. I don't hear many countries leaders urging us to stay in because its great? If it was only Britain that had wanted to leave, I would think it might be our problem, but we are hardly the first, are we? There has to be something wrong with the project. |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 1, 2019 15:36:07 GMT
I guess we're all happy with foreign politicians butting into British politics now they're saying something you agree with? There's an unpolitically correct saying in Italian that goes "It's easy to be gay with someone else's arse." It means that it's easy to be bold and courageous when you yourself have nothing at stake. It came back to me when reading Tony Abbott's article. It should be remembered that Abbott is hugely against independence for Australia from the UK. It would appear he is far more conservative when it comes to his own country, but full of big talk when he's got nothing to lose. He's happy to swear his allegiance to Queen Elizabeth, but lecture other countries about sovereignty. You could say the same about Sturgeon and Ian Blackford, though. OK for them to want independence, but not us. The more I hear from the EU, the only reason for staying is that it's a bastard to get out of. I don't hear many countries leaders urging us to stay in because its great? If it was only Britain that had wanted to leave, I would think it might be our problem, but we are hardly the first, are we? There has to be something wrong with the project. The problem with the SNP is they want to separate from the English as their only modus operandi. When they wanted to leave the Union they would have to leave the EU by default. Now we want out of the EU they want back in again!! Could you imagine a post Brexit Britain with Scotland left in the EU? Millions of immigrants arrive in Scotland, realise it's more shit than what they left and head south. We'd need an electrified Hadrian's Wall never mind a border!! |
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Post by salopstick on Mar 1, 2019 16:03:48 GMT
I guess we're all happy with foreign politicians butting into British politics now they're saying something you agree with? There's an unpolitically correct saying in Italian that goes "It's easy to be gay with someone else's arse." It means that it's easy to be bold and courageous when you yourself have nothing at stake. It came back to me when reading Tony Abbott's article. It should be remembered that Abbott is hugely against independence for Australia from the UK. It would appear he is far more conservative when it comes to his own country, but full of big talk when he's got nothing to lose. He's happy to swear his allegiance to Queen Elizabeth, but lecture other countries about sovereignty. You could say the same about Sturgeon and Ian Blackford, though. OK for them to want independence, but not us. The more I hear from the EU, the only reason for staying is that it's a bastard to get out of. I don't hear many countries leaders urging us to stay in because its great? If it was only Britain that had wanted to leave, I would think it might be our problem, but we are hardly the first, are we? There has to be something wrong with the project. Spot on. |
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