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Post by maxplonk on Jan 5, 2019 8:17:36 GMT
[/quote] The Troubles ruined many families and life in Northern Ireland/ Ireland. No need for it. [/quote] I think we can agree on this.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 5, 2019 9:00:30 GMT
Not an official NHS leaflet. What's its purpose? To scare the vulnerable into supporting the undermining of BREXIT.
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Post by bathstoke on Jan 5, 2019 9:31:31 GMT
“Hold the line!”
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Post by harryburrows on Jan 5, 2019 9:32:36 GMT
The question of the border was weaponised by the EU negotiators in order to make Brexit more palatable for the republic. If we do leave. Without a deal it will be incumbent on the EU to secure its external border whatever they say now [/quote] This doesn't make sense. The EU is a union and as such looks after it's own interests and those of it's members - the border issue exists and will continue to do so regardless of what happens this year. But do say that the EU "weaponised" the issue is misleading and extreme- the sort of thing Farage might say. [/quote] The point is the republic and the EU are doing their best to make Brexit as unpalatable as possible . Project fear is in full swing . They hope to frustrate our efforts to pass the transition legislation through parliament and force another referendum
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Jan 5, 2019 9:52:31 GMT
Seems like the residency issues can be solved if politicians want to do so. They could have been solved soon after the Referendum result, not left until 2 years later. It's hard to know who is telling the truth and if they are being less than truthful...Why? The article says that the EU offered a similar solution at the outset of negotiations but May turned it down....I seem to recall ( may be wrong) that the UK were the first to offer unconditional reassurance to EU citizens already in residence. If May turned down the EU offer and also turned down the so called Canada plus offer it does beg the question of what she is actually up to. www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/04/uk-nationals-in-italy-assured-of-residency-in-event-of-no-brexit-dealI too remember the reciprocal approach by the UK in offering EU citizens the right to stay and yet this was met with silence from the EU. Rewriting history again :/
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Post by 4372 on Jan 5, 2019 10:00:30 GMT
Seems like the residency issues can be solved if politicians want to do so. They could have been solved soon after the Referendum result, not left until 2 years later. It's hard to know who is telling the truth and if they are being less than truthful...Why? The article says that the EU offered a similar solution at the outset of negotiations but May turned it down....I seem to recall ( may be wrong) that the UK were the first to offer unconditional reassurance to EU citizens already in residence. If May turned down the EU offer and also turned down the so called Canada plus offer it does beg the question of what she is actually up to. www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/04/uk-nationals-in-italy-assured-of-residency-in-event-of-no-brexit-dealFor me this was one of the biggest post-Referendum issues. The way it was tackled just indicated that trade and politics were more important than ordinary people in the UK and the EU. A signal was sent to the EU residents here that their futures were uncertain and subject to wider negotiation between the UK and the EU. These are people who have chosen to live and work in our country.
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Post by Timmypotter on Jan 5, 2019 10:01:32 GMT
Not an official NHS leaflet. What's its purpose? To scare the vulnerable into supporting the undermining of BREXIT. He's made such a twat of himself over the last few months.
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Post by xchpotter on Jan 5, 2019 10:10:13 GMT
Not an official NHS leaflet. What's its purpose? To scare the vulnerable into supporting the undermining of BREXIT. He's made such a twat of himself over the last few months. He is essentially a bit of a knob who tries to get involved in political and social issues to show his luvvie circle at the BBC he’s one of them. There is a reason he was a footballer(and a good one) and he should,like other media celebs, keep their gobs shut unless they are directly asked. You expect and want politicians and those with knowledge on both sides to offer an opinion, as for celebrities like Lineker and Cher...just stick to what you are good at as people will start to give your ill informed crap credence.
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Post by 4372 on Jan 5, 2019 10:30:20 GMT
He's made such a twat of himself over the last few months. He is essentially a bit of a knob who tries to get involved in political and social issues to show his luvvie circle at the BBC he’s one of them. There is a reason he was a footballer(and a good one) and he should,like other media celebs, keep their gobs shut unless they are directly asked. You expect and want politicians and those with knowledge on both sides to offer an opinion, as for celebrities like Lineker and Cher...just stick to what you are good at as people will start to give your ill informed crap credence. And does the same go for the likes of Michael Caine?
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Post by xchpotter on Jan 5, 2019 10:36:00 GMT
He is essentially a bit of a knob who tries to get involved in political and social issues to show his luvvie circle at the BBC he’s one of them. There is a reason he was a footballer(and a good one) and he should,like other media celebs, keep their gobs shut unless they are directly asked. You expect and want politicians and those with knowledge on both sides to offer an opinion, as for celebrities like Lineker and Cher...just stick to what you are good at as people will start to give your ill informed crap credence. And does the same go for the likes of Michael Caine? Of course it does....that’s why I referred to BOTH sides or did you miss that?
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Post by Timmypotter on Jan 5, 2019 10:38:00 GMT
He is essentially a bit of a knob who tries to get involved in political and social issues to show his luvvie circle at the BBC he’s one of them. There is a reason he was a footballer(and a good one) and he should,like other media celebs, keep their gobs shut unless they are directly asked. You expect and want politicians and those with knowledge on both sides to offer an opinion, as for celebrities like Lineker and Cher...just stick to what you are good at as people will start to give your ill informed crap credence. And does the same go for the likes of Michael Caine? Had a quick look through his twitter feed to see if he's spouted any unsubstantiated bullshit in the last few months. I'm back to August and haven't found anything, but may have missed something.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 5, 2019 10:47:26 GMT
Seems like the residency issues can be solved if politicians want to do so. They could have been solved soon after the Referendum result, not left until 2 years later. It's hard to know who is telling the truth and if they are being less than truthful...Why? The article says that the EU offered a similar solution at the outset of negotiations but May turned it down....I seem to recall ( may be wrong) that the UK were the first to offer unconditional reassurance to EU citizens already in residence. If May turned down the EU offer and also turned down the so called Canada plus offer it does beg the question of what she is actually up to. www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/04/uk-nationals-in-italy-assured-of-residency-in-event-of-no-brexit-dealFor me this was one of the biggest post-Referendum issues. The way it was tackled just indicated that trade and politics were more important than ordinary people in the UK and the EU. A signal was sent to the EU residents here that their futures were uncertain and subject to wider negotiation between the UK and the EU. These are people who have chosen to live and work in our country. 4372, or may I call you 43 , As German said above I believe that we gave assurance to EU nationals before it happened the other way round. As now seems to be happening , it could be sorted commonsensically, the overiding principles being kindess, understanding, fairness and common sense.....a transition period of proving your legitimate right of residency ( as per the method arrived at now) based largely on evidence of preeceding/ existing residency. Waggy could have sorted the procedure s within a week. Again it should not have been weaponised but sorted out 2 years ago. One thing the official procedures seem to presume is acceptance of Mays deal. ( 2020/ June 2021).….if she was genuine about BREXIT it could have become operable from March 2019. www.gov.uk/uk-residence-eu-citizenswww.gov.uk/uk-residence-eu-citizens
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boru
Academy Starlet
Posts: 213
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Post by boru on Jan 5, 2019 11:36:25 GMT
She is talking crap, the euro hasn't failed, far from it As I say a different perspective... mind you it hasn't achieved much for Greek, Spanish and Italian young people over the past 10 years. Who can say? Perhaps Greece and Italy would have done better if they had I think if I'd been them I'd rather control my own currency than to leave it to others ( the Germans and French) Apparently the French and Italian economies aren't doing brilliant, and the natives are getting a bit restless. Mind you the Following won't do so badly if they can have our money to prop up the CAP. IF 10 years ago we were in the position of the Greeks and Italians and were presented with what actually transpired in respect of hope, aspiration and opportunity for our young people , I think that the sensible choice would be to take another route. The Euro hasn't failed as a mechanism of control and as a strategy for ever closer union and control but it has not achieved much in terms of the lives of young people £, Hasn't done much for the young people, especially in the Midlands and Northern cities and towns, high unemployment , shit jobs etc. The French and Italians still have a massive manufacturing base.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 5, 2019 11:49:27 GMT
As I say a different perspective... mind you it hasn't achieved much for Greek, Spanish and Italian young people over the past 10 years. Who can say? Perhaps Greece and Italy would have done better if they had I think if I'd been them I'd rather control my own currency than to leave it to others ( the Germans and French) Apparently the French and Italian economies aren't doing brilliant, and the natives are getting a bit restless. Mind you the Following won't do so badly if they can have our money to prop up the CAP. IF 10 years ago we were in the position of the Greeks and Italians and were presented with what actually transpired in respect of hope, aspiration and opportunity for our young people , I think that the sensible choice would be to take another route. The Euro hasn't failed as a mechanism of control and as a strategy for ever closer union and control but it has not achieved much in terms of the lives of young people £, Hasn't done much for the young people, especially in the Midlands and Northern cities and towns, high unemployment , shit jobs etc. The French and Italians still have a massive manufacturing base. Yes still much work to be done, perhaps if we left the EUwe could act in our own self interest... but the Euro is more important as a stage in ever closer Union. The manufacturing base in those countries hasn't done the young people much good Some figures Youth unemployment rate Greece ** 43.2% Spain 33.8% Italy 31.9% Croatia*** 23.6% Cyprus*** 22.4% Portugal 20.8% France 20.4% Finland 18.4% www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/
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Post by raythesailor on Jan 5, 2019 12:00:01 GMT
Hi all you Brexitiers. Have stayed out of your debates but read with interest.
Have just read there is going to be what looks like a interesting DocuDrama on Channel 4 on Monday at 09pm. The Uncivil War, starring Ben Cumbebatch (Sherlock) no less.
A behind the scenes expose of how the leave/remain campaigns were run up to the vote..
Could be well worth a view and a few comments on the Oatcake on Tuesday. 😀
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Jan 5, 2019 12:56:38 GMT
For me this was one of the biggest post-Referendum issues. The way it was tackled just indicated that trade and politics were more important than ordinary people in the UK and the EU. A signal was sent to the EU residents here that their futures were uncertain and subject to wider negotiation between the UK and the EU. These are people who have chosen to live and work in our country. 4372, or may I call you 43 , As German said above I believe that we gave assurance to EU nationals before it happened the other way round. As now seems to be happening , it could be sorted commonsensically, the overiding principles being kindess, understanding, fairness and common sense.....a transition period of proving your legitimate right of residency ( as per the method arrived at now) based largely on evidence of preeceding/ existing residency. Waggy could have sorted the procedure s within a week. Again it should not have been weaponised but sorted out 2 years ago. One thing the official procedures seem to presume is acceptance of Mays deal. ( 2020/ June 2021).….if she was genuine about BREXIT it could have become operable from March 2019. www.gov.uk/uk-residence-eu-citizenswww.gov.uk/uk-residence-eu-citizensI knew she had... a quick 10 Second search shows May giving assurances to EU citizens in the UK... and asking for reciprocal rights from the EU... It’s really that simple....
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Jan 5, 2019 12:58:23 GMT
Hi all you Brexitiers. Have stayed out of your debates but read with interest. Have just read there is going to be what looks like a interesting DocuDrama on Channel 4 on Monday at 09pm. The Uncivil War, starring Ben Cumbebatch (Sherlock) no less. A behind the scenes expose of how the leave/remain campaigns were run up to the vote.. Could be well worth a view and a few comments on the Oatcake on Tuesday. 😀 It looks good! Remember it’s a tongue in cheek drama and not an actual documentary.
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Post by sorethumbs on Jan 5, 2019 13:14:20 GMT
Fair dues JR. The Guardian has issued an explanation at the end of the article - not really shaming is it? The picture did not acurately reflect the content of the article but does reflect the fears of many people about what might happen if there's a hard border. 'but does reflect the fears of many people' Hmmm..... If only there was a catchy name for this stuff. Shall we call it 'Project Fear'?
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Post by sorethumbs on Jan 5, 2019 13:26:05 GMT
Hi all you Brexitiers. Have stayed out of your debates but read with interest. Have just read there is going to be what looks like a interesting DocuDrama on Channel 4 on Monday at 09pm. The Uncivil War, starring Ben Cumbebatch (Sherlock) no less. A behind the scenes expose of how the leave/remain campaigns were run up to the vote.. Could be well worth a view and a few comments on the Oatcake on Tuesday. 😀 Saw Will Gompertz review of this on the Beeb this morning. Should be interesting and will no doubt add some fuel to an already well-stoked fire. Written by a remainer so I'll reserve judgement on the picture it paints until I've seen it myself.
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Post by maxplonk on Jan 5, 2019 15:29:28 GMT
Fair dues JR. The Guardian has issued an explanation at the end of the article - not really shaming is it? The picture did not acurately reflect the content of the article but does reflect the fears of many people about what might happen if there's a hard border. 'but does reflect the fears of many people' Hmmm..... If only there was a catchy name for this stuff. Shall we call it 'Project Fear'? Well, yes. If you're incapable of distinguishing historical fact from bullshit retoric then go ahead. I'm sure you'll feel a lot better for it.
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Post by Kilo on Jan 5, 2019 17:27:26 GMT
'but does reflect the fears of many people' Hmmm..... If only there was a catchy name for this stuff. Shall we call it 'Project Fear'? Well, yes. If you're incapable of distinguishing historical fact from bullshit retoric then go ahead. I'm sure you'll feel a lot better for it. Well, yes. If you're incapable of distinguishing historical fact from scare stories about the future then you don't understand what 'Project Fear' means.
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Post by felonious on Jan 5, 2019 18:21:16 GMT
As I say a different perspective... mind you it hasn't achieved much for Greek, Spanish and Italian young people over the past 10 years. Who can say? Perhaps Greece and Italy would have done better if they had I think if I'd been them I'd rather control my own currency than to leave it to others ( the Germans and French) Apparently the French and Italian economies aren't doing brilliant, and the natives are getting a bit restless. Mind you the Following won't do so badly if they can have our money to prop up the CAP. IF 10 years ago we were in the position of the Greeks and Italians and were presented with what actually transpired in respect of hope, aspiration and opportunity for our young people , I think that the sensible choice would be to take another route. The Euro hasn't failed as a mechanism of control and as a strategy for ever closer union and control but it has not achieved much in terms of the lives of young people £, Hasn't done much for the young people, especially in the Midlands and Northern cities and towns, high unemployment , shit jobs etc. The French and Italians still have a massive manufacturing base. Read and weep.
www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/
One fit for all obviously doesn't suit all. I can't understand why the youth of Greece, Spain and Italy aren't kicking off big time.
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Post by felonious on Jan 5, 2019 18:28:51 GMT
I heard this morning down in the Wheatsheaf that Mr Weatherspoon himself was in Hanley Weatherspoons giving a talk.
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boru
Academy Starlet
Posts: 213
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Post by boru on Jan 5, 2019 21:40:40 GMT
£, Hasn't done much for the young people, especially in the Midlands and Northern cities and towns, high unemployment , shit jobs etc. The French and Italians still have a massive manufacturing base. Read and weep.
www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/
One fit for all obviously doesn't suit all. I can't understand why the youth of Greece, Spain and Italy aren't kicking off big time.
What is the UK % ??
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boru
Academy Starlet
Posts: 213
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Post by boru on Jan 5, 2019 21:41:27 GMT
£, Hasn't done much for the young people, especially in the Midlands and Northern cities and towns, high unemployment , shit jobs etc. The French and Italians still have a massive manufacturing base. Read and weep.
www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/
One fit for all obviously doesn't suit all. I can't understand why the youth of Greece, Spain and Italy aren't kicking off big time.
And why would I weep ??
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Post by felonious on Jan 5, 2019 21:46:30 GMT
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Post by felonious on Jan 5, 2019 21:47:40 GMT
Perhaps you're happy with youth unemployment in Greece, Italy and Spain?
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boru
Academy Starlet
Posts: 213
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Post by boru on Jan 5, 2019 21:48:59 GMT
I heard this morning down in the Wheatsheaf that Mr Weatherspoon himself was in Hanley Weatherspoons giving a talk. A great entrepreneur
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Post by felonious on Jan 5, 2019 21:50:45 GMT
I heard this morning down in the Wheatsheaf that Mr Weatherspoon himself was in Hanley Weatherspoons giving a talk. A great entrepreneur There's still a few of them out there, Mr JCB is doing ok.
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boru
Academy Starlet
Posts: 213
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Post by boru on Jan 5, 2019 21:56:56 GMT
Perhaps you're happy with youth unemployment in Greece, Italy and Spain? All depends how you work the figures, Part time employment Part time work Part time career Part time education Part time care in the community No contracts No apprenticeship Part cops. Worst of all. All above have no pension but they pay for all the public servants
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