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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 5, 2018 0:00:27 GMT
Holly fucking Molley. I know I'm biased but Corbyn looks like an imbecile trying to talk about Brexit in the HoC just now. If I'm a Celeb isn't your thing check out the BBC' s Parliament channel for real entertainment. Corbyn is hopeless. Basically another brexit loon. He comes at it from the angle that the EU is just a cosy business club preventing him from implementing true socialism in the UK. I'd say he is every bit as nuts as Doc Fox, BoJo, Dickie Davis, Farrage and the rest of them, another one howling at the moon. If you want the worst of all world's then it's brexit and a Corbyn led administration. Neither would be best for all of us. That's what the country deserves. Spineless twat is ideal for the job. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 0:31:37 GMT
Corbyn is hopeless. Basically another brexit loon. He comes at it from the angle that the EU is just a cosy business club preventing him from implementing true socialism in the UK. I'd say he is every bit as nuts as Doc Fox, BoJo, Dickie Davis, Farrage and the rest of them, another one howling at the moon. If you want the worst of all world's then it's brexit and a Corbyn led administration. Neither would be best for all of us. That's what the country deserves. Spineless twat is ideal for the job. No I've got to disagree Tricky. No matter how bad the current lot are, or what state the country is currently in, Corbyn would definitely make things worse. Him, McDonut and Abacus, heaven help us ! Can you imagine Corbyn in meetings with foreign leaders, or at the G7 or G20 conferences ? Trump and most other leaders would wipe the floor with him. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Dec 5, 2018 0:38:08 GMT
That's what the country deserves. Spineless twat is ideal for the job. No I've got to disagree Tricky. No matter how bad the current lot are, or what state the country is currently in, Corbyn would definitely make things worse. Him, McDonut and Abacus, heaven help us ! Can you imagine Corbyn in meetings with foreign leaders, or at the G7 or G20 conferences ? Trump and most other leaders would wipe the floor with him. It's really difficult to take a look at the likes of May, Johnson, Rees-Mogg et al and believe the country would be in any worse state with a Labour government. Whether it would be any better is also pretty doubtful, but this current government is really fucking incompetent. |
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Post by Gary Hackett on Dec 5, 2018 7:01:06 GMT
It's been clear for a long time that we're heading for another referendum with the outcome being to stay in the EU.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 5, 2018 8:02:33 GMT
No I've got to disagree Tricky. No matter how bad the current lot are, or what state the country is currently in, Corbyn would definitely make things worse. Him, McDonut and Abacus, heaven help us ! Can you imagine Corbyn in meetings with foreign leaders, or at the G7 or G20 conferences ? Trump and most other leaders would wipe the floor with him. It's really difficult to take a look at the likes of May, Johnson, Rees-Mogg et al and believe the country would be in any worse state with a Labour government. Whether it would be any better is also pretty doubtful, but this current government is really fucking incompetent. I don't think it's been incompetence, though, Rip. I think it's been wilful from the day after the result. We were only supposed to vote one way. I don't believe for a minute we would face economic disaster if we left, but just for a minute let's suppose it's true. Why was parliament allowed to make such a calamitous decision to hold the referendum? How are the politicians guilty of such neglect still in jobs. Surely it is a sackable offence to put your country in unnecessary peril? But no, a few years after the expenses scandal these heroes have wasted two and a half years of negotiating time on waffle. Back and forth, Labour and Tory, changing their tune constantly. Labour have had more positions than a porn star on Brexit, and are still open to suggestions! It's like a legal case, when the lawyers know the outcome from the start, but take a couple of years of clients money before agreeing to settle. They are just playing it out. Cox even sounded like something from Crown Court the other day. I include the likes of Johnson, Fox, Gove etc in all this. Where is the genuine outrage? We get more heated on here than they have managed to! Farage has hardly been apoplectic, either, has he? I still think it is perfectly possible for a country like ours to operate independently. I think the idea that we can't is absurd, but I accept that you and others have a different view. What I can't accept is our own parliament, along with a massively biased media, doing everything in their power to overturn the result of a referendum. If Brexit IS undeliverable, instead of finding obstacle after obstacle, make a statement in the House Of Commons and accept guilt. Admit that you put your country in danger by holding the referendum in the first place. Fall on your sword, don't ask the electorate to bail you out again. But of course, nobody in the media has pursued them on this, have they? Not one! They are earning fortunes from Brexit. How many appearances does Owen Jones(just for example) make specifically on this subject? All part of the charade, another who will be untouched by Brexit not happening. The people who will be, will go back to the miserable circumstances that made them vote Leave in the first place,and be told that they must register to vote in the next election..... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 8:24:41 GMT
It's really difficult to take a look at the likes of May, Johnson, Rees-Mogg et al and believe the country would be in any worse state with a Labour government. Whether it would be any better is also pretty doubtful, but this current government is really fucking incompetent. I don't think it's been incompetence, though, Rip. I think it's been wilful from the day after the result. We were only supposed to vote one way. I don't believe for a minute we would face economic disaster if we left, but just for a minute let's suppose it's true. Why was parliament allowed to make such a calamitous decision to hold the referendum? How are the politicians guilty of such neglect still in jobs. Surely it is a sackable offence to put your country in unnecessary peril? But no, a few years after the expenses scandal these heroes have wasted two and a half years of negotiating time on waffle. Back and forth, Labour and Tory, changing their tune constantly. Labour have had more positions than a porn star on Brexit, and are still open to suggestions! It's like a legal case, when the lawyers know the outcome from the start, but take a couple of years of clients money before agreeing to settle. They are just playing it out. Cox even sounded like something from Crown Court the other day. I include the likes of Johnson, Fox, Gove etc in all this. Where is the genuine outrage? We get more heated on here than they have managed to! Farage has hardly been apoplectic, either, has he? I still think it is perfectly possible for a country like ours to operate independently. I think the idea that we can't is absurd, but I accept that you and others have a different view. What I can't accept is our own parliament, along with a massively biased media, doing everything in their power to overturn the result of a referendum. If Brexit IS undeliverable, instead of finding obstacle after obstacle, make a statement in the House Of Commons and accept guilt. Admit that you put your country in danger by holding the referendum in the first place. Fall on your sword, don't ask the electorate to bail you out again. But of course, nobody in the media has pursued them on this, have they? Not one! They are earning fortunes from Brexit. How many appearances does Owen Jones(just for example) make specifically on this subject? All part of the charade, another who will be untouched by Brexit not happening. The people who will be, will go back to the miserable circumstances that made them vote Leave in the first place,and be told that they must register to vote in the next election..... Totally agree Tricky ! Where are the protests or voices of discontent from the Leavers ? All we've got is an apparent silent acceptance of the now seemingly inevitable decision to Remain. The referendum result was a slap in the face for Parliament but they've carefully manoeuvred the situation so that they will get the result they wanted in the first place. Still I don't suppose it'll be a problem as we'll be able to look forward to still paying billions to the EU, having our fishing grounds fished to buggery by the French etc, a shiny new EU army, even closer integration into the U.S.E. etc etc. God it frustrating and depressing ! |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Dec 5, 2018 9:56:58 GMT
It's really difficult to take a look at the likes of May, Johnson, Rees-Mogg et al and believe the country would be in any worse state with a Labour government. Whether it would be any better is also pretty doubtful, but this current government is really fucking incompetent. I don't think it's been incompetence, though, Rip. I think it's been wilful from the day after the result. We were only supposed to vote one way. I don't believe for a minute we would face economic disaster if we left, but just for a minute let's suppose it's true. Why was parliament allowed to make such a calamitous decision to hold the referendum? How are the politicians guilty of such neglect still in jobs. Surely it is a sackable offence to put your country in unnecessary peril? But no, a few years after the expenses scandal these heroes have wasted two and a half years of negotiating time on waffle. Back and forth, Labour and Tory, changing their tune constantly. Labour have had more positions than a porn star on Brexit, and are still open to suggestions! It's like a legal case, when the lawyers know the outcome from the start, but take a couple of years of clients money before agreeing to settle. They are just playing it out. Cox even sounded like something from Crown Court the other day. I include the likes of Johnson, Fox, Gove etc in all this. Where is the genuine outrage? We get more heated on here than they have managed to! Farage has hardly been apoplectic, either, has he? I still think it is perfectly possible for a country like ours to operate independently. I think the idea that we can't is absurd, but I accept that you and others have a different view. What I can't accept is our own parliament, along with a massively biased media, doing everything in their power to overturn the result of a referendum. If Brexit IS undeliverable, instead of finding obstacle after obstacle, make a statement in the House Of Commons and accept guilt. Admit that you put your country in danger by holding the referendum in the first place. Fall on your sword, don't ask the electorate to bail you out again. But of course, nobody in the media has pursued them on this, have they? Not one! They are earning fortunes from Brexit. How many appearances does Owen Jones(just for example) make specifically on this subject? All part of the charade, another who will be untouched by Brexit not happening. The people who will be, will go back to the miserable circumstances that made them vote Leave in the first place,and be told that they must register to vote in the next election..... I agree with quite a bit of that, although I think the root cause is the incompetence of May to call an early election last year. I believe most of the rest of the mess stems from that decision. |
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Post by lordb on Dec 5, 2018 11:23:25 GMT
He's playing a very dangerous game - as is Westminster generally. This BBC opinion piece headline sums it up nicely: Brexit debate: Parliament 'taking back control'The question is who is Parliament taking back control from. They may argue it is from the omnishambles that is the Theresa May Government. But, it seems to me, it is really about taking back control from the people who voted leave. The contempt for the electorate shown by the likes of Vince Cable is now coming to the fore with many more politicians. Taking back control is precisely what parliament should do. It's madness to run the country with random referendums. No one does it anywhere in the civilised world. The Swiss do. |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 5, 2018 11:32:46 GMT
Taking back control is precisely what parliament should do. It's madness to run the country with random referendums. No one does it anywhere in the civilised world. The Swiss do. How does it work for them? |
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Post by Gods on Dec 5, 2018 11:34:01 GMT
Taking back control is precisely what parliament should do. It's madness to run the country with random referendums. No one does it anywhere in the civilised world. The Swiss do. Yes they famously have a 'direct democracy' don't they. But it needs BOTH the public AND what are effectively their MP's to support legislation for it to be passed. So if we had this system brexit would have needed to win both the popular vote which it narrowly did and to garner majority support among MP's I think. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Swiss people play a vital role in how the country is run by having their say in a series of federal and cantonal referendums held four times a year. Introduced in 1874, the system requires any amendment to the constitution to be put before the people in a referendum. To pass it requires a double majority – meaning the consent of the majority of the people and a majority of the cantons. The system means the government sometimes has a hard time passing legislation, such as the failure at referendum of a recent major tax reform. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 11:44:07 GMT
He's playing a very dangerous game - as is Westminster generally. This BBC opinion piece headline sums it up nicely: Brexit debate: Parliament 'taking back control'The question is who is Parliament taking back control from. They may argue it is from the omnishambles that is the Theresa May Government. But, it seems to me, it is really about taking back control from the people who voted leave. The contempt for the electorate shown by the likes of Vince Cable is now coming to the fore with many more politicians. Taking back control is precisely what parliament should do. It's madness to run the country with random referendums. No one does it anywhere in the civilised world. We need to go back to the first referendum all those years back then And nip that fucker in the bud |
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Dec 5, 2018 11:46:30 GMT
Yes they famously have a 'direct democracy' don't they. But it needs BOTH the public AND what are effectively their MP's to support legislation for it to be passed. So if we had this system brexit would have needed to win both the popular vote which it narrowly did and to garner majority support among MP's I think. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Swiss people play a vital role in how the country is run by having their say in a series of federal and cantonal referendums held four times a year. Introduced in 1874, the system requires any amendment to the constitution to be put before the people in a referendum. To pass it requires a double majority – meaning the consent of the majority of the people and a majority of the cantons. The system means the government sometimes has a hard time passing legislation, such as the failure at referendum of a recent major tax reform. It also causes fatigue in the electoral system, the majority of the referendums garner less than 30% turnout. It's a garbage system in truth. |
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 5, 2018 11:56:18 GMT
Brexit, the longest ever suicide note.
The Worlds 5th economy being sucked down the $#!tter.
Asset strippers will be rubbing their hands.
Moggy’s gonna make a killing...
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Post by Gods on Dec 5, 2018 12:00:02 GMT
Taking back control is precisely what parliament should do. It's madness to run the country with random referendums. No one does it anywhere in the civilised world. We need to go back to the first referendum all those years back then And nip that fucker in the bud Fair enough mate, we just shouldn't be doing it full stop IMHO. Ask the public what they think and we'd still be hanging gay folks from lamp posts! We'd never move on. It's the job of our elected MP's not only to take the time and trouble to understand legislation properly but also to provide leadership, to take us to a better place as a civilisation if that doesn't sound too pompous and unlikely, which it does! |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 5, 2018 12:09:55 GMT
Brexit, the longest ever suicide note. The Worlds 5th economy being sucked down the $#!tter. Asset strippers will be rubbing their hands. Moggy’s gonna make a killing... It's not going to happen! |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Dec 5, 2018 12:13:00 GMT
We need to go back to the first referendum all those years back then And nip that fucker in the bud Fair enough mate, we just shouldn't be doing it full stop IMHO. Ask the public what they think and we'd still be hanging gay folks from lamp posts! We'd never move on. It's the job of our elected MP's not only to take the time and trouble to understand legislation properly but also to provide leadership, to take us to a better place as a civilisation if that doesn't sound too pompous and unlikely, which it does! I argue that a fundamental tenet of a civilisation is independence and absolute Sovereignty. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Dec 5, 2018 12:15:50 GMT
Brexit, the longest ever suicide note. The Worlds 5th economy being sucked down the $#!tter. Asset strippers will be rubbing their hands. Moggy’s gonna make a killing... Don't be afraid. Trust me, there is clean tap water and sandwiches outside of the EU. |
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Post by potteringermany on Dec 5, 2018 12:18:17 GMT
Fair enough mate, we just shouldn't be doing it full stop IMHO. Ask the public what they think and we'd still be hanging gay folks from lamp posts! We'd never move on. It's the job of our elected MP's not only to take the time and trouble to understand legislation properly but also to provide leadership, to take us to a better place as a civilisation if that doesn't sound too pompous and unlikely, which it does! I argue that a fundamental tenet of a civilisation is independence and absolute Sovereignty. So North Korea here we come! |
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Dec 5, 2018 12:19:06 GMT
One thing that always narks me is the '5th largest economy in the world' bit. Do people really think there's anywhere to go but down from this? for a relatively small country we have been punching well above our weight financially for years because of our EU membership, not despite it.
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 5, 2018 12:19:13 GMT
Fair enough mate, we just shouldn't be doing it full stop IMHO. Ask the public what they think and we'd still be hanging gay folks from lamp posts! We'd never move on. It's the job of our elected MP's not only to take the time and trouble to understand legislation properly but also to provide leadership, to take us to a better place as a civilisation if that doesn't sound too pompous and unlikely, which it does! I argue that a fundamental tenet of a civilisation is independence and absolute Sovereignty. Like Nigeria & Saudi Arabia... |
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Post by yeokel on Dec 5, 2018 12:25:59 GMT
One thing that always narks me is the '5th largest economy in the world' bit. Do people really think there's anywhere to go but down from this? for a relatively small country we have been punching well above our weight financially for years because of our EU membership, not despite it. We’ve been punching above our weight financially for centuries, for hundreds of years before we joined the “Common Market”. We are where we are because of who we are (or were) as a people, not because of the EU. |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 5, 2018 12:28:27 GMT
One thing that always narks me is the '5th largest economy in the world' bit. Do people really think there's anywhere to go but down from this? for a relatively small country we have been punching well above our weight financially for years because of our EU membership, not despite it. How do you know we aren't succeeding because we have relatively good governments, and innovative, hard working people? Might it be neither because nor despite? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 12:30:50 GMT
We need to go back to the first referendum all those years back then And nip that fucker in the bud Fair enough mate, we just shouldn't be doing it full stop IMHO. Ask the public what they think and we'd still be hanging gay folks from lamp posts! We'd never move on. It's the job of our elected MP's not only to take the time and trouble to understand legislation properly but also to provide leadership, to take us to a better place as a civilisation if that doesn't sound too pompous and unlikely, which it does! We should be able to trust our elected mps but, its obvious to anyone who can see we cannot trust them Self serving parasites would be a better job description in my opinion |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 5, 2018 12:30:56 GMT
One thing that always narks me is the '5th largest economy in the world' bit. Do people really think there's anywhere to go but down from this? for a relatively small country we have been punching well above our weight financially for years because of our EU membership, not despite it. We’ve been punching above our weight financially for centuries, for hundreds of years before we joined the “Common Market”. We are where we are because of who we are (or were) as a people, not because of the EU. Beat me to it. But we're only allowed to have pride in our country every 2 years, when a football tournament is on. |
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Post by yeokel on Dec 5, 2018 12:31:54 GMT
We need to go back to the first referendum all those years back then And nip that fucker in the bud Fair enough mate, we just shouldn't be doing it full stop IMHO. Ask the public what they think and we'd still be hanging gay folks from lamp posts! We'd never move on. It's the job of our elected MP's not only to take the time and trouble to understand legislation properly but also to provide leadership, to take us to a better place as a civilisation if that doesn't sound too pompous and unlikely, which it does! Part of their job is to take account of changing world circumstances and then “guide us” accordingly. The world has changed dramatically in the last forty or fifty years and the answers for those times are not necessarily the right answers for these changed times. It seems that we are ahead of many of them in recognising that. |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 5, 2018 12:52:19 GMT
Even the BBC are slating Corbyn for political opportunism on Brexit! He couldn't even strike a blow today, in PMQs, despite May being in a terrible position. That debate might be fun.
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 5, 2018 12:53:51 GMT
I argue that a fundamental tenet of a civilisation is independence and absolute Sovereignty. Like Nigeria & Saudi Arabia... Bit different On the strength we can nuke the shit out of someone if we need to |
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Post by lawrieleslie on Dec 5, 2018 12:53:53 GMT
I emailed my MP Gary Streeter to find out what his stance would be at the vote next week. I stated that I was unhappy because I had voted to leave and the Withdrawal Agreement could leave us shackled to the EU without being a member if the NI backstop was invoked. For many Brexiteers this is the sticking point with the WA. His reply made some sense because he states that the backstop is, as we all know, a last resort if a border agreement cannot be thrashed out by Jan 2021. However because free movement of people will stop on March 29 next year, the EU will not want us in a customs union without freedom of movement for one day longer than is necessary. This appears to be the "calculated risk" that the Attorney General spoke about couple of days ago. What are people’s thought on this?
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Dec 5, 2018 13:12:13 GMT
I argue that a fundamental tenet of a civilisation is independence and absolute Sovereignty. So North Korea here we come! Er if you like mate. I was thinking more Japan, Uruguay or New Zealand but if you prefer North Korea then knock yourself out champ. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Dec 5, 2018 13:15:53 GMT
I argue that a fundamental tenet of a civilisation is independence and absolute Sovereignty. Like Nigeria & Saudi Arabia... So you're saying you would have preferred for Nigeria to remain the Colony and Protectorate of Nigeria under the UK and not to have been granted full independence? I guess you think that India and Canada shouldn't have been given independence as well. Interesting. |
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