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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 15, 2018 21:21:09 GMT
If Brexit was undeliverable, as some MPs are saying, why did they vote for the referendum and also to trigger Article 50? And when is the second /third referendum, because it looks inevitable now, because MPs are too cowardly to admit that they don't want Brexit, and never have. Because they thought remain would win Oh, I know that, but surely if it was potentially disastrous and undeliverable, how could they take the risk (however small). The People's Vote gets them out of jail. |
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Nov 15, 2018 21:28:33 GMT
Not neccesarily John. It's not over yet. I am actually still optimistic. At least the true intentions of the EU , Political and Economic union , are out in the open and there's no going back on that. If we end up remaining ( and I don't think we will) I think that the EU will be under more scrutiny. I don't think that the British public will Ever have a natural affinity for it though. Rule from Brussels just isn't in our psyche. I still think that the video of Peter Shore in 1975 is relevant" now that the fraud has been exposed"..…..and you can tell from his passion that he means it. May's Withdrawal Bill will cost us £39 billion over a year..that's £750 million a week. Didn't see that on the bus. And at the same time handing back control to the EU And if that's not bad enough we now have the German Chancellor FFS telling us this Bill is "Non negotiable" "This agreement delivers what the people voted for"...May. Which people? |
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Post by salopstick on Nov 15, 2018 21:33:00 GMT
Because they thought remain would win Oh, I know that, but surely if it was potentially disastrous and undeliverable, how could they take the risk (however small). The People's Vote gets them out of jail. Because the leave message not necessary UKIP had to much momentum. Our system couldn’t get UKIP elected but their message resonated. The EU was a monster self serving and not interested in one iota of reform. It’s killed itself |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 15, 2018 21:35:18 GMT
I am actually still optimistic. At least the true intentions of the EU , Political and Economic union , are out in the open and there's no going back on that. If we end up remaining ( and I don't think we will) I think that the EU will be under more scrutiny. I don't think that the British public will Ever have a natural affinity for it though. Rule from Brussels just isn't in our psyche. I still think that the video of Peter Shore in 1975 is relevant" now that the fraud has been exposed"..…..and you can tell from his passion that he means it. May's Withdrawal Bill will cost us £39 billion over a year..that's £750 million a week. Didn't see that on the bus. And at the same time handing back control to the EU via the 'customs arrangements'. The more I think about this Bill the angrier I get. That we are much better off as a nation as we are, rather than this dogshit deal is an incontrovertible fact. It doesn't stand up logically, Politically, economically or philosophically. It's complete hogwash, which rubs piss in the faces of leavers and remainers in equal measure. Only a complete idiot would support it. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 15, 2018 21:40:39 GMT
No one could have negotiated with them cunts. They have done their best to punish the uk for having the audacity to leave. Was it Denmark and Ireland that had to vote again? They have tried to bully us. I’d just say no and take the risk of no deal. I'm struggling to see how even the most ardent anti-EU person can pin the blame for this shitty deal on the EU, unless we believe having your shit in order and being somewhat united is somehow cheating. Unless you believed the EU should pity us and give us a bit better deal out of simply being nice? Not sure that would do much better than May's deal in terms of restoring national pride. |
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Post by lordb on Nov 15, 2018 21:44:21 GMT
The popular media, along with the establishment, are manufacturing a situation where a second vote/ peoples vote will become inevitable. The main problem with this is that the question will then be loaded so as to try and deliver a Remain result, either by giving more than one leave option eg accept deal A, B or C, or by constant media bombardment of the perils of leaving. The flaw in this philosophy is that the establishment and the media have no concept of how deep the passion of the leave voters is to leave and it gaining more momentum as these puppets try to manipulate the country into giving them the result that they want. There are numerous MPs in solid Labour seats where the electorate voted Leave who are petrified that they will lose their seat if the will of the electorate is ignored, I’ve said this on more than one occasion, if the result of the referendum is not implemented then at the next general election UKIP will sweep the board. UKIP are absolutely finished. |
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Nov 15, 2018 21:47:50 GMT
Not looking good for the Hard Brexiters- Rees-Mogg has finally thrown in his letter and.... nothing. Johnson a leaking bag of piss and wind on the political sidelines and David Davis scratching around only to find that everything that involves a bit of effort is just too much like hard work.
Gove apparently saying that 'No Deal' would be disastrous, so even a no vote in parliament would probably mean 'No Deal' is not something we would consider.
Farage will crawl back under his ash tray- only the faithful still listening.
So that's probably it. Over 2 years of scheming and subterfuge only to leave the gunpowder plotters looking like master planners in comparison.
Meanwhile the UK gets hogtied in a deal, gagged on a French Golden Delicious , while the EU27 take it in turn to come round and do what they will with us.
Brexit? that went well then
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 15, 2018 21:52:06 GMT
Not looking good for the Hard Brexiters- Rees-Mogg has finally thrown in his letter and.... nothing. Johnson a leaking bag of piss and wind on the political sidelines and David Davis scratching around only to find that everything that involves a bit of effort is just too much like hard work. Gove apparently saying that 'No Deal' would be disastrous, so even a no vote in parliament would probably mean 'No Deal' is not something we would consider. Farage will crawl back under his ash tray- only the faithful still listening. So that's probably it. Over 2 years of scheming and subterfuge only to leave the gunpowder plotters looking like master planners in comparison. Meanwhile the UK gets hogtied in a deal, gagged on a French Golden Delicious , while the EU27 take it in turn to come round and do what they will with us. Brexit? that went well then So where do we go from here? |
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Post by pearo on Nov 15, 2018 21:58:08 GMT
Not looking good for the Hard Brexiters- Rees-Mogg has finally thrown in his letter and.... nothing. Johnson a leaking bag of piss and wind on the political sidelines and David Davis scratching around only to find that everything that involves a bit of effort is just too much like hard work. Gove apparently saying that 'No Deal' would be disastrous, so even a no vote in parliament would probably mean 'No Deal' is not something we would consider. Farage will crawl back under his ash tray- only the faithful still listening. So that's probably it. Over 2 years of scheming and subterfuge only to leave the gunpowder plotters looking like master planners in comparison. Meanwhile the UK gets hogtied in a deal, gagged on a French Golden Delicious , while the EU27 take it in turn to come round and do what they will with us. Brexit? that went well then So where do we go from here? Is it down to the lake I fear |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 23:33:27 GMT
Some fucking creatures on QT tonight.
People's vote this people's vote that - customs union this and that and whatever.
It's almost as if we already had one of those.
That said this deal is so ghastly I almost want a chance to fuck it off...
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Nov 15, 2018 23:40:00 GMT
Some fucking creatures on QT tonight. People's vote this people's vote that - customs union this and that and whatever. It's almost as if we already had one of those. That said this deal is so ghastly I almost want a chance to fuck it off... Then there's this specimen |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 23:48:05 GMT
Some fucking creatures on QT tonight. People's vote this people's vote that - customs union this and that and whatever. It's almost as if we already had one of those. That said this deal is so ghastly I almost want a chance to fuck it off... Then there's this specimen I'd take no deal over being locked in the CU without control of leaving said Union without the EU's agreement any day of the week! |
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Post by hammered on Nov 16, 2018 0:00:17 GMT
Jeez this is getting boring - why when we knew most of "the deal" months ago are we going through this charade and fake MSM hysteria of pretending the printed doc makes it even close to LEAVE or that it'd get passed by the multi faceted vested interests .. FFs...tick...tock..
May must be some kind of fucking robot with no emotion, reason or conscience to keep this shameful "fuck you" going; either that or her EU chip is perfectly programmed. What's going on is the perfect example of our destroyed sovereignty and why we need to get it back.
While May's world crumbles around her even now she's still got the gal to introduce a third way threat of no Brexit at all, as an alternative to her treason deal or what leave really means - No deal. We didn't vote for a deal we voted to LEAVE.
No deal I keep hearing/dismissed would be a disaster soundbite but none seem to explain why? other than hyperbolic speculation based on no facts or debate; or promotes a vision of a free UK - which many on here want and voted for. Of those that have tried they've been shut-down - why?
For sure with a clean break we would take some pain initially but we'd win longer term once the EU implodes - Social unrest widespread, bankrupt southern states, shrinking growth (Germany) 3m migrants in Turkey, Merkel's finished after destroying Germany, Micron the rent boy leading the western world with his warmongering EU army "patriotism is the opposite of nationalism" pop at Trump alienating us from people who like us - no wonder Trump and Putin (are close) and view Europe (EU) as the problem child. Is there a remainer out there who can give a good reason to go down with this ship?
No deal (LEAVE) delivers this remit and a complete reset for our future (if properly executed) and anyone taking up the challenge of delivering it would get a massive swathe of support as a default IMO. The globalist masters of the EU hold the purse however and our establishment elite we will succumb to PC approved think and do enforced by the cultural Marxists and they'll lie as usual.
Where do we go from here?
May goes eventually, the EU choose our next leader and we give up voting or caring anymore.
Oh and I still don't know what Labour stand for
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 7:18:58 GMT
Hammered.....I've just give you a good thumbing alas it only shows once
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 16, 2018 7:35:44 GMT
Shay must be some kind of fucking Maybot with no emotion, reason or conscience to keep this shameful "fuck you" going; either that or her EU chip is perfectly programmed. If it talks like a Maybot, walks like a Maybot & dances like a Maybot from 1984... 🤖 |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 16, 2018 7:52:26 GMT
Jeez this is getting boring - why when we knew most of "the deal" months ago are we going through this charade and fake MSM hysteria of pretending the printed doc makes it even close to LEAVE or that it'd get passed by the multi faceted vested interests .. FFs...tick...tock.. May must be some kind of fucking robot with no emotion, reason or conscience to keep this shameful "fuck you" going; either that or her EU chip is perfectly programmed. What's going on is the perfect example of our destroyed sovereignty and why we need to get it back. While May's world crumbles around her even now she's still got the gal to introduce a third way threat of no Brexit at all, as an alternative to her treason deal or what leave really means - No deal. We didn't vote for a deal we voted to LEAVE. No deal I keep hearing/dismissed would be a disaster soundbite but none seem to explain why? other than hyperbolic speculation based on no facts or debate; or promotes a vision of a free UK - which many on here want and voted for. Of those that have tried they've been shut-down - why? For sure with a clean break we would take some pain initially but we'd win longer term once the EU implodes - Social unrest widespread, bankrupt southern states, shrinking growth (Germany) 3m migrants in Turkey, Merkel's finished after destroying Germany, Micron the rent boy leading the western world with his warmongering EU army "patriotism is the opposite of nationalism" pop at Trump alienating us from people who like us - no wonder Trump and Putin (are close) and view Europe (EU) as the problem child. Is there a remainer out there who can give a good reason to go down with this ship? No deal (LEAVE) delivers this remit and a complete reset for our future (if properly executed) and anyone taking up the challenge of delivering it would get a massive swathe of support as a default IMO. The globalist masters of the EU hold the purse however and our establishment elite we will succumb to PC approved think and do enforced by the cultural Marxists and they'll lie as usual. Where do we go from here? May goes eventually, the EU choose our next leader and we give up voting or caring anymore. Oh and I still don't know what Labour stand for This is all Project Fear isn't it? I'm not sure how the MSM media are being hysterical in this situation. They are reporting on what is a pretty extraordinary situation - a Prime Minister seems defiant on pushing a plan through Parliament which has little to no support, and seems unaffected by her cabinet to falling to bits for at least the second time during this process. How would you like them to report on it? To put it very roughly, No Deal would initially be a disaster as it would cancel or dramatically change all the rules and regulations with which we trade or interact with the EU, a bloc which makes up a decent percentage of our trade. While it is not impossible to rewrite these R&R's, it would take time - and during that time our economy would struggle a lot. In time I'm sure the economy would recover to a certain extent, but the problem is we would be making new trade deals as a country with an economy in turmoil which would normally result in a fairly shitty trade deals. Whether the EU is a sinking ship can be debated, for sure it has it's problems. But if we're fleeing a sinking ship, what ship are we hopping onto afterwards? The US, where we have to open our state assets up to rampant privatisation? Russia, China or the Middle East? Would you fancy our society being more influenced politically by any of these nations? There is of course the Commonwealth, but by the time our economy has gone through "some pain" it's highly likely any Commonwealth would be led by India as the main economic force. Personally the Commonwealth looks about the best option for me, but I don't see any vast improvement given the amount of time, effort and money needed to restructure these things. Which do you think is the better option? If the EU have the ability to pick the British Prime Minister, then Corbyn's effort in last year's election looks even more impressive. To get so close despite the weight of not only the British Establishment but also the European Establishment against him is incredible. Maybe he's your man for the job? Either that or we have free and fair elections that no foreign government or body, including the EU, has any direct jurisdiction over? |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 16, 2018 8:41:20 GMT
Oh, I know that, but surely if it was potentially disastrous and undeliverable, how could they take the risk (however small). The People's Vote gets them out of jail. Because the leave message not necessary UKIP had to much momentum. Our system couldn’t get UKIP elected but their message resonated. The EU was a monster self serving and not interested in one iota of reform. It’s killed itself Spot on. McDonnell wants to "Remain and Reform", but they have no interest in reforming. People could see that from the way they dismissed Cameron a few years ago. Despite all the dire warnings, the leaflet and 99% Remain biased media, I still want out! |
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Nov 16, 2018 9:06:03 GMT
The 'elite' are never going to let the 'idiots' win. They know what's best for you so shut up and take it. They are our elected representatives so believe that they have the right to do what they think is best. They were Democratically elected, by a minority of the vote, and we all know the minorities win every time in this country!  We need another 'People vote' to have a bit more of democracy injected into the process........ Thornberry!  |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 16, 2018 9:10:54 GMT
The 'elite' are never going to let the 'idiots' win. They know what's best for you so shut up and take it. They are our elected representatives so believe that they have the right to do what they think is best. They were Democratically elected, by a minority of the vote, and we all know the minorities win every time in this country! We need another 'People vote' to have a bit more of democracy injected into the process........ Thornberry! Ha ha, I heard that one as well! The fucking nerve of the woman! Mind you, we know what she really thinks of the working class, don't we? |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 16, 2018 9:27:59 GMT
I reckon this fucking People's Vote will happen. If it does, and the EU goes to shit in 5 years, do we get another People's Vote?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 16, 2018 9:31:52 GMT
And so it begins
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Post by PotterLog on Nov 16, 2018 9:37:13 GMT
I reckon this fucking People's Vote will happen. If it does, and the EU goes to shit in 5 years, do we get another People's Vote? Get campaigning already if I were you, there’s not a minute to lose |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Nov 16, 2018 9:52:26 GMT
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Nov 16, 2018 9:59:47 GMT
Gove going nowhere.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 10:03:17 GMT
I think you'll find he is......To HELL |
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Nov 16, 2018 10:13:44 GMT
I think you'll find he is......To HELL Haha. Does help his decision that he looks like he actually looks like he enjoys the job. Esther Mcvey had a good excuse to leave the shit show that is Universal Credit with some modicum of respect from certain sections of the country. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 16, 2018 10:15:40 GMT
Newspaper editors getting briefed by Olly Robbins. First control the media....
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Post by lordb on Nov 16, 2018 10:26:20 GMT
Out of interest does anyone think 'Gove, he's a nice guy,can trust him'?
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Post by yeokel on Nov 16, 2018 10:33:38 GMT
It was you that used the words "proposed EU army". You're not going to admit it, I know that, but you know as well as I do, and as well as Frau Merkel does that an EU army is on the way and that its construction has already begun as referenced by both rogerjones and myself yesterday. Yes, lots of people have proposed an EU army, to which I was referring. Please point me in the direction of how a person would sign up to this army if they were so inclined. They must have a website and be actively recruiting if it exists. Still unsure why an eu army is a bad thing (other than the same reasons any army can be argued to be a bad thing) or how it is different to nato (and so awful in comparison). This seems like ancient history now, after the last day or two but I did say I would get back to you. In a nutshell, NATO is a treaty organisation set up for the mutual protection of its members which has helped maintain peace in Europe and much of the rest of the world since just after the second world war. NATO has no territorial ambitions of its own and, ultimately, would see itself as a defensive peace keeping organisation which is under the political control of its members. I appreciate there may be odd incidences that could be pointed at to attempt to illustrate the contrary, but overwhelmingly NATO acts as a peacekeeper, often too weakly in many peoples view. The EU, on the other hand, is an expansionist organisation run in the main by unelected and unaccountable officials who occasionally allow politicians to rubber stamp their decisions but in the main act to punish member countries who dare step out of line. I would cite Greece, Italy and, indeed, the UK as recent examples. EU expansionist policies toward Ukraine were the trigger for the Russian activities in the east of that country and proved a dangerously destabling influence on eastern European politics. An (expansionist) EU army could prove a treat to world peace in a way that I believe NATA never has (although I will accept that certain NATO members might be that themselves – but not the organisation as a whole). In case you missed it, here is the video of Frau Merkel discussing the assembly of an EU army which you are refusing to accept the reality of (if you don’t want to see it all, watch from 55 seconds),
and here is an article describing the co-opting of divisions from the Dutch, Czech and Romanian armies to form the beginnings of a German led European army. EU Army Building Blocks linkI know you don’t want to hear all this stuff Oggy, but this is what is happening out there in the real world while you bury your head in some kind of fluffy glittery vision of the kind of EU you would like to see, rather than recognising the beast that it actually is.
You would have us believe you are not a fool so might I be so bold as to suggest you stop acting like one, hiding from the multiple truths that have been presented to you on this discussion board over the past year or two and accept that the EU can be seen as a power for good in certain respects (social policies and the like), it is also a potentially disruptive power for bad as it continues its expansionist policies to do with territory, power and economics.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 16, 2018 10:47:07 GMT
Out of interest does anyone think 'Gove, he's a nice guy,can trust him'? I think he unites both sides of this debate. Snidey McSnide can take the high road. |
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