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Post by followyoudown on Nov 15, 2018 14:26:50 GMT
It will be a hung parliament with no overall majority, nobody in their right mind would vote for Corbyn, Abbott McDonnell etc. It may well be a hung Parliament but 13 Million people voted for Labour 18 months ago. What a disgraceful way to talk about people exercising their democratic right and voting in massive numbers for something they believed in.  What a disgraceful way to talk about a percentage of the vote that was bigger than any Labour Leader since 2001 and any Tory leader since 1992! Change is coming comrades! Fake news the percentage of vote was lower than the tory leader of 2017 |
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Post by xchpotter on Nov 15, 2018 14:28:39 GMT
Well, this is going to get very interesting. Regardless of politics, at least some have shown some integrity through resignation (though also possibly with an eye on themselves) and give a toss for the country. It was so obvious from the onset that Europe was going to fuck us over and for some of them,achieve what they couldn’t in previous wars and conflicts with Britain.
This is the time everyone, regardless of political persuasion, should come together and wake up to see what the common threat is. Surely a friend or ally would not treat us with the contempt and disrespect that has been shown.I fully get this was always going to cost from the onset, but the extent has perhaps surprised many and you have to begrudgingly tip your hat to the EU where Britain has most certainly been guilty of taking a knife to a gun fight.
Does the country have it within to unite behind a leader who can galvanise cross party support and more importantly can party politics be put to one side along the lines last proably seen around 1939?
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 15, 2018 14:29:47 GMT
What's Starmer and Corbyn been doing? Where's your plan? I didn't realise they were directly involved? They set them their expectations from Brexit that May said she could achieve. If she achieved them Labour wouldn't vote them down. They aren't achieving them though so they will. So stop trying to find excuses. The fault is purely down to government. Nobody else.  Labour were always going to vote against May's proposal. They're a protest party. Christ yet another Labour supporter who's gagging for a general election but doesn't realise the 29th of March applies to them as well |
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Post by M on Nov 15, 2018 14:30:02 GMT
I disagree but we are all entitled to opinions. His opinion is his opinion though. His opinion on trident was it should go but the majority of his party disagreed. He didn't force it on them and followed the line of the majority and gave them all the vote to decide. If he'd have forced his will I'm sure he would have still been criticised for doing the opposite to what you say. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't by some who just don't like him. The reality though is he respected greatly by the membership so much so he's seen the two biggest leader majorities any Labour leader has ever had so only his mortal coil will take him down. Two years ago he "couldn't lead" and now he's very close to actually leading... As you’ve said, we are all entitled to opinions. I stand by the statement that Corbyn is a protest voter and not a solution provider. (there is nothing wrong with that, all governments, committees and other bodies of power need critics to ‘keep them honest’) If, on the other hand, Corbyn is a ‘leader’ as you seem to be suggesting, then he is currently leading the wrong party. As you began to point out, he is frequently at odds with most Labour MPs, is out of touch with Labour’s traditional heartlands and relies on a bunch of kids and left wing loonies to keep him in position. If he is a leader, he needs to be the leader of a more left wing party than the Labour party has traditionally been. Their policy isn't really that left  If it is, the majority of the content is. Nationalising utilities and railways is pretty much the norm. But yes he is the elected leader of said party, by a significant number. The overwhelming majority of members of said party support him and his policies entirely. New Labour took Labour from the traditional heartlands, it's actually Labour under his leadership that is seeing it return and seeing the membership grow as a result... |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 15, 2018 14:30:15 GMT
It may well be a hung Parliament but 13 Million people voted for Labour 18 months ago. What a disgraceful way to talk about people exercising their democratic right and voting in massive numbers for something they believed in. What a disgraceful way to talk about a percentage of the vote that was bigger than any Labour Leader since 2001 and any Tory leader since 1992! Change is coming comrades! Fake news the percentage of vote was lower than the tory leader of 2017 You know full what I meant.  Lots of people "out of their minds" voting for things isn't there? Corbyn got a bigger share of the vote than any Tory leader for a generation and any Labour leader for 16 years! Yet "no one will vote for him" Johnny Mc in the Treasury. I think I've just cum |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 15, 2018 14:34:39 GMT
My plan is to sit and watch the shitshow from the side line. As I didn't vote for any of this, didn't vote for a Tory government, haven't been handing letters into the 1922 Committee, and am not in a position of power, I reckon I don't need to have a plan. You may not have noticed, but Starmer and Corbyn are on the OPPOSITION - Rees-Mogg is in the governing party. One is expected to challenge the government, the other is supposed to support the government by coming up with good ideas or, god forbid, offering to lead the government if they think they can do a better job. Now, who do you think has been doing the better job given their actual roles in the system? What are the opposition actually challenging the Government with? There's ZERO plan from Labour. They can't even agree a direction for Brexit never mind write it down. That's not positive, challenging opposition that might swing some undecided voters. That's not clear leadership that might appeal to the EU. That's sitting around with their thumb up their arses which is like you by the sounds of it. I didn't realise I had an active role in this process. What is my job in the Brexit process? Btw, have you published your plan for Brexit? It seems every citizen must have one by the sounds of it. |
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Post by M on Nov 15, 2018 14:34:56 GMT
I didn't realise they were directly involved? They set them their expectations from Brexit that May said she could achieve. If she achieved them Labour wouldn't vote them down. They aren't achieving them though so they will. So stop trying to find excuses. The fault is purely down to government. Nobody else. Labour were always going to vote against May's proposal. They're a protest party. Christ yet another Labour supporter who's gagging for a general election but doesn't realise the 29th of March applies to them as well But Brexit isn't going to happen so why should it worry me? |
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Post by PotterLog on Nov 15, 2018 14:40:17 GMT
That’s about it. We have voted ourselves onto the precipice of an entirely avoidable abyss. *yay democracy* I take it you're against a second referendum, then? Yup |
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Nov 15, 2018 14:40:44 GMT
Well, this is going to get very interesting. Regardless of politics, at least some have shown some integrity through resignation (though also possibly with an eye on themselves) and give a toss for the country. It was so obvious from the onset that Europe was going to fuck us over and for some of them,achieve what they couldn’t in previous wars and conflicts with Britain. This is the time everyone, regardless of political persuasion, should come together and wake up to see what the common threat is. Surely a friend or ally would not treat us with the contempt and disrespect that has been shown.I fully get this was always going to cost from the onset, but the extent has perhaps surprised many and you have to begrudgingly tip your hat to the EU where Britain has most certainly been guilty of taking a knife to a gun fight. Does the country have it within to unite behind a leader who can galvanise cross party support and more importantly can party politics be put to one side along the lines last proably seen around 1939? The very fact war time rhetoric gets circulated whenever most Brexiteers mention Europes is probably one of the reasons they've treated us with contempt (seriously, check some of the stuff that's come out of Leave.Eu's twitter account) The EU laid out their red lines within Days of Article 50 being triggered....what did we do? Piss around with wishy washy arrangements and peddle over expectant fantasies about the "ease" with which the deal would be achieved, completely ignoring the points the EU had laid out before. There's been no need for the EU to make concessions because we've never once presented an argument strong enough to persuade them otherwise. When you have people coming out with "I didn't realise Calais/Dover is an important trade route", what else do you expect? I agree with your point about a "suspension" of party politics however, the EU has been so successful in these talks because they have been what their name suggests, united. Whereas we've been divided from the outset, even among the bloody party responsible for calling the referendum in the first place. The entire thing, has been a complete clusterfuck from the very moment Cameron dropped the bomb and ran off. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 14:45:59 GMT
As a Labour voter though I'm not certain on what their policy around Brexit is. That said, the membership made it very clear at the last Labour Party conference that unanimously they expect the option of a referendum should be available on the result (but they would prefer a GE obviously because blood is smelt). I know Corbyn publicly supported remain but I still very much think he's against it but just following the party membership line which I suppose is what he must do with him being a big champion over democracy etc. I think Labour have just simply adopted the position of letting the Tories rip themselves apart over it. I too see a hung parliament but this time with Labour edging it and being the first to get a chance of forming a government no doubt with the SNP, Greens (minimal I know) and possibly the Lib Dems. I still don't think it will happen though (Brexit). I think project fear has returned due to the incompetency of the Tories in it. People are now genuinely worried not because of the concept of leaving, but because how badly it has been done. The fact we had the Brexit secretary basically say he underestimated the importance of Dover just really emphasises project fear, Like I've said countless times it all falls on Cameron and that government. The fact they offered the referendum in their manifesto should have seen all of these impact studies done and published in advance and then we wouldn't have had two years of arguing over it so we could concentrate on everything else that is going tits up with our country. If there is a 'peoples vote' I'd expect a very different outcome. Good post. And one particular nail hit firmly on the head – “… I know Corbyn publicly supported remain but I still very much think he's against it but just following the party membership line“ and therein lies his problem, he is a follower not a leader, he is a protest voter not a solution provider and he is a divisive force not a unifying force. The sooner Labour is rid of Corbyn, the sooner they may be able to form an effective opposition or, dare I say it, a government. as much as I dislike the man, for me, labour have picked up numbers because of him, not in spite of him. |
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 15, 2018 14:47:10 GMT
Fake news the percentage of vote was lower than the tory leader of 2017 You know full what I meant. Lots of people "out of their minds" voting for things isn't there? Corbyn got a bigger share of the vote than any Tory leader for a generation and any Labour leader for 16 years! Yet "no one will vote for him" Johnny Mc in the Treasury. I think I've just cum Clutching at Straws your favourite Marillion album Momo ?  Unfortunately for you he didn't get a bigger share of the vote than the Tory leader he was standing against, now considering how his manifesto was unicorns for all and May was actually telling people you are going to have to pay more for stuff have you considered that however many people thought he was the messiah, even more think he is a terrorist loving incompetent bumbler, |
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Post by Northy on Nov 15, 2018 14:51:21 GMT
It will be a hung parliament with no overall majority, nobody in their right mind would vote for Corbyn, Abbott McDonnell etc. It may well be a hung Parliament but 13 Million people voted for Labour 18 months ago. What a disgraceful way to talk about people exercising their democratic right and voting in massive numbers for something they believed in. What a disgraceful way to talk about a percentage of the vote that was bigger than any Labour Leader since 2001 and any Tory leader since 1992! Change is coming comrades! Like I said, nobody in their right minds |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 15, 2018 14:56:53 GMT
You know full what I meant. Lots of people "out of their minds" voting for things isn't there? Corbyn got a bigger share of the vote than any Tory leader for a generation and any Labour leader for 16 years! Yet "no one will vote for him" Johnny Mc in the Treasury. I think I've just cum Clutching at Straws your favourite Marillion album Momo ? Unfortunately for you he didn't get a bigger share of the vote than the Tory leader he was standing against, now considering how his manifesto was unicorns for all and May was actually telling people you are going to have to pay more for stuff have you considered that however many people thought he was the messiah, even more think he is a terrorist loving incompetent bumbler, Did May say anything? I thought she retreated to a bunker after the social care disaster. She certainly didn't want to take on the issues with the opposition that is for absolute certain! I almost felt sorry for her earlier, with her being stabbed in the front back and sides, then I remembered that ill-advised cynical election, making a mockery of the fixed term Parliament Act in an attempt to get a bonfire of rights Brexit and I thought suck it up, you useless, opportunistic harridan! |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Nov 15, 2018 14:57:46 GMT
According to Le Monde this morning (yes I do like to take a walk on the dark side occasionally, there's less fake news than is dished up by BBC/Sky) there is no issue with Raab resigning or any other Brexit MP. All meaningful discussions have been with Olly Robbins.
"Despite his title, Dominic Raab is not the main British negotiator of Brexit. It is Olly Robbins, senior official and trusted man of Theresa May who is at the forefront."
Which raises an important point as the colour of government rotates but the civil service remains in place. Would any Brexit minister, including Starmer, be saddled with Robbins as the de facto negotiator?
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 15, 2018 15:01:45 GMT
Fake news the percentage of vote was lower than the tory leader of 2017 You know full what I meant. Lots of people "out of their minds" voting for things isn't there? Corbyn got a bigger share of the vote than any Tory leader for a generation and any Labour leader for 16 years! Yet "no one will vote for him" Johnny Mc in the Treasury. I think I've just cum Theresa May 42.4% got a bigger vote share then Corbyn 40% in the 2017 election  Only Blair 43.2% in 1997 and Thatcher 43.9% in 1979 have had more of the vote share than Theresa May since 1970. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 15, 2018 15:09:46 GMT
You know full what I meant. Lots of people "out of their minds" voting for things isn't there? Corbyn got a bigger share of the vote than any Tory leader for a generation and any Labour leader for 16 years! Yet "no one will vote for him" Johnny Mc in the Treasury. I think I've just cum Theresa May 42.4% got a bigger vote share then Corbyn 40% in the 2017 election Only Blair 43.2% in 1997 and Thatcher 43.9% in 1979 have had more of the vote share than Theresa May since 1970. Yeah and only Blair, Thatcher and May have a bigger share of the vote than Corbyn since 1992. Completely unelectable obviously Prepare for change comrade! |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 15, 2018 15:12:18 GMT
If Brexit was undeliverable, as some MPs are saying, why did they vote for the referendum and also to trigger Article 50?
And when is the second /third referendum, because it looks inevitable now, because MPs are too cowardly to admit that they don't want Brexit, and never have.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 15, 2018 15:15:17 GMT
Theresa May 42.4% got a bigger vote share then Corbyn 40% in the 2017 election Only Blair 43.2% in 1997 and Thatcher 43.9% in 1979 have had more of the vote share than Theresa May since 1970. Yeah and only Blair, Thatcher and May have a bigger share of the vote than Corbyn since 1992. Completely unelectable obviously Prepare for change comrade! Can't wait. Grow some bollocks and back Brexit, Jezza. Do it for Tony Benn, and your working class constituencies. The one's who thought there should be an upper level of immigration. |
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Post by auntiegeorge on Nov 15, 2018 15:44:23 GMT
Theresa May 42.4% got a bigger vote share then Corbyn 40% in the 2017 election Only Blair 43.2% in 1997 and Thatcher 43.9% in 1979 have had more of the vote share than Theresa May since 1970. Yeah and only Blair, Thatcher and May have a bigger share of the vote than Corbyn since 1992. Completely unelectable obviously Prepare for change comrade! The only change is likely to be a new Tory PM. Comrade. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 15, 2018 15:44:45 GMT
Yeah and only Blair, Thatcher and May have a bigger share of the vote than Corbyn since 1992. Completely unelectable obviously Prepare for change comrade! Can't wait. Grow some bollocks and back Brexit, Jezza. Do it for Tony Benn, and your working class constituencies. The one's who thought there should be an upper level of immigration. I'm confident it wont be as pathetic as this one mate! May press conference at 5PM. The beginning of the end? |
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Nov 15, 2018 15:54:49 GMT
Can't wait. Grow some bollocks and back Brexit, Jezza. Do it for Tony Benn, and your working class constituencies. The one's who thought there should be an upper level of immigration. I'm confident it wont be as pathetic as this one mate! May press conference at 5PM. The beginning of the end? Was organised yesterday, so doubtful. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 15, 2018 16:00:55 GMT
I'm confident it wont be as pathetic as this one mate! May press conference at 5PM. The beginning of the end? Was organised yesterday, so doubtful. At the very least I expect her to admit this proposal is dead which is big news in itself. I imagine Gove the slimy little urchin will crop up as well. Rumoured to have turned down Brexit Sec unless he can renegotiate the deal. The timing of the 48 letters could be key also. |
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Post by skemstokie on Nov 15, 2018 16:02:29 GMT
If Brexit was undeliverable, as some MPs are saying, why did they vote for the referendum and also to trigger Article 50? And when is the second /third referendum, because it looks inevitable now, because MPs are too cowardly to admit that they don't want Brexit, and never have. Because they over estimated the British voters ability to reach a sensible decision. Roll on the peoples vote. |
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Nov 15, 2018 16:10:06 GMT
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Post by Northy on Nov 15, 2018 16:11:54 GMT
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Post by harryburrows on Nov 15, 2018 16:13:18 GMT
Was organised yesterday, so doubtful. At the very least I expect her to admit this proposal is dead which is big news in itself. I imagine Gove the slimy little urchin will crop up as well. Rumoured to have turned down Brexit Sec unless he can renegotiate the deal. The timing of the 48 letters could be key also. This is the end game for may , she won't and can't admit this deal is dead . If she did it would be an admission of her incompetence. It's this deal or she has to resign. Gove is a shithouse who will disappear to the back benches |
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Nov 15, 2018 16:16:16 GMT
Morning all! Going to be an interesting day to say the least. I'd just like to wish you all well and I'd like to say, fuck Brexit, fuck Boris Johnson, fuck Theresa May, fuck the Tories and fuck the last 2 years in UK politics. And watch out for Gove over the next few days, been ominously quiet of late the slimy little shit. Have a good day, hope it goes as well as possible for you, whichever 'side' you are on. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 16:22:31 GMT
Yeah and only Blair, Thatcher and May have a bigger share of the vote than Corbyn since 1992. Completely unelectable obviously Prepare for change comrade! Can't wait. Grow some bollocks and back Brexit, Jezza. Do it for Tony Benn, and your working class constituencies. The one's who thought there should be an upper level of immigration. No chance. Jezly snipes is party before country. If he gave a shit he wouldn't have had that snake in the grass Starmer come out and oppose the original Brexit clauses. They want the tories to writhe so they can get into Government and really make a mess of the place. The worse and less deliverable Brexit gets - the better it is for labour and the worse it is for the country. Jez is a brexiteer propped up by a 50/50 split of rabid remainian Mps and fairweather brexiteer Mps (along with the odd frank field who actually do have a moral compass) Those Mps are backed by Northern no deal voters and southern whatever happens we must stay in the Eu re-remain voters. He won't take a stand because that'd actually pin the party to a position and alienate one group or the other, instead, he's said fuck all of concrete worth and he's willing to let the country drown in shit than actually use his body of 'members' of parliament to actually lend their weight to this country's' interest. Coward and a traitor innit. |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Nov 15, 2018 16:24:43 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 15, 2018 16:31:53 GMT
Another catastrophe avoided then. |
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Labour were always going to vote against May's proposal. They're a protest party.
If it is, the majority of the content is. Nationalising utilities and railways is pretty much the norm. But yes he is the elected leader of said party, by a significant number. The overwhelming majority of members of said party support him and his policies entirely. New Labour took Labour from the traditional heartlands, it's actually Labour under his leadership that is seeing it return and seeing the membership grow as a result...
Lots of people "out of their minds" voting for things isn't there?
