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Post by pearo on Oct 15, 2018 22:06:58 GMT
But Switzerland and Norway weren’t allowed to vote. The Swiss vote was far more specific than ours. They voted no to EEA membership. Norway voted slightly more than us to not be a member. 52.2%. So because of the split almost down the middle they stayed a member of the EEA. Exactly they were not allowed the most simple of choices as we were in the UK, where in a two option democratic vote the outcome was to Leave. As the definition above explained what leave means, I wonder why you want to add extra criteria to terms of the leave result, as Waga has tried to explain to you leave means leave. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 15, 2018 22:59:39 GMT
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Post by harryburrows on Oct 15, 2018 23:34:55 GMT
But Switzerland and Norway weren’t allowed to vote. The Swiss vote was far more specific than ours. They voted no to EEA membership. Norway voted slightly more than us to not be a member. 52.2%. So because of the split almost down the middle they stayed a member of the EEA rather than throwing their toys out of the pram and claiming they want nothing to do with the EU like some nutty brexiteers. Never heard that ... ever |
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Oct 16, 2018 6:32:27 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 16, 2018 6:40:00 GMT
The Swiss vote was far more specific than ours. They voted no to EEA membership. Norway voted slightly more than us to not be a member. 52.2%. So because of the split almost down the middle they stayed a member of the EEA. Exactly they were not allowed the most simple of choices as we were in the UK, where in a two option democratic vote the outcome was to Leave. As the definition above explained what leave means, I wonder why you want to add extra criteria to terms of the leave result, as Waga has tried to explain to you leave means leave. No, he says leave means having nothing to do with the EU ever again when in fact leave could mean being part of the EEA or EFTA for example, like Switzerland or Norway, who have lots to do with the EU. Or it could mean being completely isolated from our neighbours or anywhere in between . We don’t know yet the details of the leave vote and yet we leave very soon. The leave vote was like voting for party in a general election without them having a manifesto, with all people involved being anonymous and without even knowing if they are left wing right wing or in between. A blind vote for “something else”. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 16, 2018 6:41:12 GMT
The Swiss vote was far more specific than ours. They voted no to EEA membership. Norway voted slightly more than us to not be a member. 52.2%. So because of the split almost down the middle they stayed a member of the EEA rather than throwing their toys out of the pram and claiming they want nothing to do with the EU like some nutty brexiteers. Never heard that ... ever It’s all true, google it |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Oct 16, 2018 7:26:41 GMT
Never heard that ... ever It’s all true, google it Nonsense. In 1972 the Norwegian referendum voted NO to joining the European Economic Community. Norway then entered into a trade agreement with the Community following the outcome of the referendum. That trade agreement remained in force until Norway joined the European Economic Area, not by referendum, on 1 January 1994. In 1994 a referendum was proposed to move from the EEA to fully join the European Union, the result was NO so Norway remained in the EEA. |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Oct 16, 2018 7:46:25 GMT
One scenario could be that the EU give some ground on the Northern Ireland issue so that May can claim that she has been strong, stood up to the EU and has some sort of victory... when in fact we have BRINO. Alternatively t could be that no deal is reached and this is portrayed as such a disaster that somehow article 50 is delayed.... and I've no idea how..... whether it could be by some mutual EU/UK agreement ( I think that the treaty article does allow this). Alternatively May decides to go to the country again if her deal is rejected by Parliament.Presumably the Labour and Liberal manifestos would include the offer of a third Referendum. If May is defeated in Parliament and letters are sent to the 1922 committee...have the Tories gota unifying candidate. I'm not sure Boris nor ERG have enough support or they would have challenged by now. Davis? Jenkins?Patel? Rees-Mogg? none are unifying. ( Just my ramblings in response to the OP, what happens next with Brexit...I haven't a clue and don't know who to trust..if anyone?) ( and I must add , trying to PREDICT what could happen , given that the Political class largely don't want BREXIT, but want to sort of pretend that they are honouring the Referendum result...ISa completely different issue/ question than " knowing what you voted for...the purpose of the Referendum was clear") There is more and more talk of parliament voting for a "second" referendum, an idea previously deemed impossible. I believe it will happen, as it has in other countries. The EU machine will get it's way. Quite why people are suddenly clever enough to understand what they are voting for this time is beyond me. Are referenda OK if you vote the right way? I said all along this was a fit up, and I am more convinced than ever. Make no mistake, far from protecting the working class, this is a "fuck you" to them. Cheap foreign labour will continue, landlords will rejoice, and British people will continue to be the minority in their workplaces, while earning shit pay. Of course the people who have to put up with this aren't organising marches. They are too busy trying to keep their heads above water. How there haven't been riots about this is a mystery. |
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Post by pearo on Oct 16, 2018 8:04:36 GMT
Exactly they were not allowed the most simple of choices as we were in the UK, where in a two option democratic vote the outcome was to Leave. As the definition above explained what leave means, I wonder why you want to add extra criteria to terms of the leave result, as Waga has tried to explain to you leave means leave. No, he says leave means having nothing to do with the EU ever again when in fact leave could mean being part of the EEA or EFTA for example, like Switzerland or Norway, who have lots to do with the EU. Or it could mean being completely isolated from our neighbours or anywhere in between . We don’t know yet the details of the leave vote and yet we leave very soon. The leave vote was like voting for party in a general election without them having a manifesto, with all people involved being anonymous and without even knowing if they are left wing right wing or in between. A blind vote for “something else”. Nobody needed a manifesto, Leave means Leave, totally, completely, absolutly Leave. Now when the powers that be enforce that decision, arrived at by due democratic process, the parties can then put in their future manifestos what they each propose to do regarding the EU, EEA etc. Then following due democratic process once again the electorate can vote for which ever option each individual prefers. The result of the referendum was as clear in it’s outcome as it was stated on the ballot paper “ LEAVE “ |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Oct 16, 2018 8:28:29 GMT
I've not read anything you've posted but if you're proposing Sir Ivan Rogers as a balanced voice of Brexit I'll probably continue that policy. And yet you're happy to post material from Open Europe as stuff we should believe? About as balanced as the New European.
Open Europe is pro reform of the EU from the inside. It focuses primarily on liberal economics and free trade. It supports freedom of movement. It's previous Director ran Cameron's Remain campaign. You post 21 pages of Rogers' hand-wringing blubbing and on every page he reminds us just how inflexible the EU are. How they'll never negotiate. It's a great ad for WTO I'll give him that. He constructs the opinions of others to allow his replies to make sense..... All Brexiteers were fearful of how entwined the EU was in our Sovereignty but Brexiteers also expect the separation to be quick so there's this paradox..... Er, no. He's a europhile remainer. A bookish, bean counting civil servant who's scared of his own shadow and has followed EVERY SINGLE CLICHE from "cake and eat it" to "The Johnsonian Canada ++ deal". He even mentions the fucking bus! He gently ribs Rees-Mogg with the benefit of hindsight. In fact his whole speech is a retelling of recent history with Rogers' belated 'I always knew this would happen' tone. It's interesting that what he thinks is a damning appraisal of Brexit is what I actually voted for; "As Xavier Bettel, the Luxembourg PM, summarised Brexit in a sentence better than anyone: “They were in with a load of opt-outs. Now they are out and want a load of opt-ins”. Spot on." Spot on indeed. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 16, 2018 8:33:07 GMT
It really was an achievement yesterday for this oafish idiot of a Prime Minister to still be standing behind a plan that not one, not one single MP publicly backed her on.
The only way to resolve this now is a general election.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Oct 16, 2018 9:09:37 GMT
Labours 6 tests. Number 2 sums up the flip flopping twats to a tee. 1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU? 2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union? 3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities? 4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom? 5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime? 6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK? Number 2 is what the then Brexit Secretary of State David Davis assured us he could get in Parliament. That’s why it’s on the list. The list is absolute garbage. Retarded chin dribble from Starmer. "strong and collaborative" - define strong? How is that measured? How much collaboration is not enough or too much? "fair management of migration" - define fair. Fair numbers or fair process? Who decides what's fair? "rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom" - rights of what? Goldfish? Allotment owners? Race to the bottom of what? What does that even mean? I love it when people recite this crap. The actual context of "exact same benefits" was a reply to a question (from another Conservative MP) in the HoC. In fact Davis was pointing out the difficulty in delivering the same benefits but that is what the initial plan would be. He later said he would “make no apology” for being ambitious. His answer was in January 2017. "My right hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry) talks about things that were not on the ballot paper. What was on the ballot paper was leaving the European Union. I am afraid that it is very difficult to see how we can leave the European Union and still stay inside the single market, with all the commitments that go with that. What we have come up with—I hope to persuade her that this is a very worthwhile aim—is the idea of a comprehensive free trade agreement and a comprehensive customs agreement that will deliver the exact same benefits as we have, but also enable my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Trade to go and form trade deals with the rest of the world, which is the real upside of leaving the European Union."Persuasion. An aim. An idea. That's all. Not even a 'promise' and definitely not set in stone or somehow legally or even politically binding. Labour's 6 tests are designed to fail and thus giving some sort of credibility to Labour when they vote down ANY plan May brings to the house. As they were always going to do. And don't forget, as shit as Chequers is, Labour don't have their own 126 page alternative waiting in the wings. They have nothing. Zero. Zilch. Where is their tangible Irish border solution? Where is their paper on the future relationship on agri-foods? Immigration controls? Nada. Zip. Fuck all. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 16, 2018 9:13:12 GMT
Number 2 is what the then Brexit Secretary of State David Davis assured us he could get in Parliament. That’s why it’s on the list. The list is absolute garbage. Retarded chin dribble from Starmer. . And still eminently more sensible than May's fucking tripe! |
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 16, 2018 9:16:32 GMT
Theresa May's version of Brexit
Looks weaker the more one dissexit
A backstop to backstop
Will not make the flak stop
When even her party rejexit.
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Post by yeokel on Oct 16, 2018 9:25:11 GMT
Theresa May's version of Brexit Looks weaker the more one dissexit A backstop to backstop Will not make the flak stop When even her party rejexit. Don't give up the day job! |
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 16, 2018 9:26:18 GMT
Theresa May's version of Brexit Looks weaker the more one dissexit A backstop to backstop Will not make the flak stop When even her party rejexit. Don't give up the day job!  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2018 9:29:42 GMT
What should happen is that the referendum result should be delivered in the way it was proposed by the prime minister of the time who made it very clear with his doom leaflets
"There will be no second referendum...we will leave the eu"
Exactly how he sold it, so the people who voted expect
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Oct 16, 2018 9:30:54 GMT
Theresa May's version of Brexit Looks weaker the more one dissexit A backstop to backstop Will not make the flak stop When even her party rejexit. Don't give up the day job! Unless that's a poet. |
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Post by yeokel on Oct 16, 2018 9:33:07 GMT
The list is absolute garbage. Retarded chin dribble from Starmer. . And still eminently more sensible than May's fucking tripe! And don't forget, as shit as Chequers is, Labour don't have their own 126 page alternative waiting in the wings. They have nothing. Zero. Zilch. Where is their tangible Irish border solution? Where is their paper on the future relationship on agri-foods? Immigration controls? Nada. Zip. Fuck all. He does have a point though - Where or what is Labours detailed alternative plan? Has Labour actually published anything other than their 'checklist' which doesn't, in itself, actually propose any alternatives to what is currently on the table? |
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Post by GeneralFaye on Oct 16, 2018 9:37:16 GMT
We're fucked, simple.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Oct 16, 2018 9:37:17 GMT
The list is absolute garbage. Retarded chin dribble from Starmer. . And still eminently more sensible than May's fucking tripe! Really. OK, pick one at random..... "Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK?" Talk me through the details. How do you quantify "deliver"? |
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Post by 4372 on Oct 16, 2018 9:37:56 GMT
Looks like we may all be able to live happily ever after. Andrew Bridgen MP thinks that all English people can apply for an Irish Passport,and thus keep open their links to the E.U.....
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 16, 2018 9:41:34 GMT
And still eminently more sensible than May's fucking tripe! Really. OK, pick on at random..... "Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK?" Talk me through the details. How do you quantify "deliver"? Well the inference here is no sweetheart deals for the City or favoured manufacturers/sectors. A deal for the many not the few  |
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Post by yeokel on Oct 16, 2018 9:43:11 GMT
And while some of you are flapping around Corporal Jones style, many of the rest of us will be out there making it work. It will take time, and there will be negatives as well as positives, but 'work' it will, and 'fucked' we are not. Feel free to lend your hand, if you can be bothered. |
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Post by GeneralFaye on Oct 16, 2018 9:46:18 GMT
And while some of you are flapping around Corporal Jones style, many of the rest of us will be out there making it work. It will take time, and there will be negatives as well as positives, but 'work' it will, and 'fucked' we are not. Feel free to lend your hand, if you can be bothered. What are you insinuating about me? you're being a bit vague although it seems you have a general opinion on what I'm like as a person... |
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Post by 4372 on Oct 16, 2018 9:51:16 GMT
Count me out Yeokel. I won't be helping to build backward-looking Brexit Britain.
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Post by yeokel on Oct 16, 2018 10:14:01 GMT
And while some of you are flapping around Corporal Jones style, many of the rest of us will be out there making it work. It will take time, and there will be negatives as well as positives, but 'work' it will, and 'fucked' we are not. Feel free to lend your hand, if you can be bothered. What are you insinuating about me? you're being a bit vague although it seems you have a general opinion on what I'm like as a person... I have no idea what you are like as a person. If Brexit happens, some people (most, I suspect) will get on with their lives and do the best they can in the changed circumstances. Some (a few), on the other hand, may simply give up thinking there is no point in trying as, in the short and long terms, ‘we’re fucked’. The country will have some ups and downs which will need working through. Some will work through them and ‘go the extra mile’, and some won’t. I believe that economically, security wise and culturally the country and its population will be better off in the medium and long terms and that while the EU noisily and violently implodes, we will be grateful to be on the edge of it rather than at the centre of things. Does that answer the “vagueness” for you? |
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Post by yeokel on Oct 16, 2018 10:16:28 GMT
Count me out Yeokel. I won't be helping to build backward-looking Brexit Britain. We'll be building a forwards looking Great Britain for you then. You will reap the benefits in due course although, by the sound of it, you won't have done much to help us. But, please just stay out of the way while we get on with things. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Oct 16, 2018 10:31:36 GMT
Count me out Yeokel. I won't be helping to build backward-looking Brexit Britain. You moving to Europe then? |
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Post by GeneralFaye on Oct 16, 2018 10:36:30 GMT
What are you insinuating about me? you're being a bit vague although it seems you have a general opinion on what I'm like as a person... I have no idea what you are like as a person. If Brexit happens, some people (most, I suspect) will get on with their lives and do the best they can in the changed circumstances. Some (a few), on the other hand, may simply give up thinking there is no point in trying as, in the short and long terms, ‘we’re fucked’. The country will have some ups and downs which will need working through. Some will work through them and ‘go the extra mile’, and some won’t. I believe that economically, security wise and culturally the country and its population will be better off in the medium and long terms and that while the EU noisily and violently implodes, we will be grateful to be on the edge of it rather than at the centre of things. Does that answer the “vagueness” for you? Because I said "we're fucked" you said that I, directly, was "flapping" We're fucked because we have a shit and inadequate government trying to carry out the "will of the people" that's what I was referring to. Life hasn't and won't change as far as I'm concerned, I'll still work my nuts off, pay my taxes and get on with things. Make no mistake, when I say "we're fucked" it doesn't mean I've chucked the towel in or think we're forever condemned to living in a black hole. I've said from day one every person that voted leave and thought we'd be coming up smelling of roses was utterly deluded and naïve for thinking so. Btw, how are you going to "go the extra mile" in making it work? unless you're Dominc Raab I fail to see what you can do to make the slightest bit of difference in all honesty. |
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