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Post by partickpotter on May 17, 2022 10:10:02 GMT
Sorry pal… I hold May, the Remainiacs and the EU fully accountable for the Northern Ireland mess. Why? For saying brexit will cause major problems in N Ire and to the GFA, being dismissed as project fear, and then that happening!? This is entirely Johnson’s fault for striking a terrible deal. Anyone who voted brexit also should take some responsibility. Whilst I know they were completely lied to, remainers did tell them that at the time and they were dismissed, rather than listened to, and look where we are. Had remainers been listened to, this issue wouldn’t exist, and Johnson wouldn’t be PM, and the UK would be a much better place to live. Completely disagree. The NI situation could have been easily resolved if the parties chose to. The solution was no border. Anywhere. Manage any problems as they occur. Instead EU single market dogma took over and May wilted.
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Post by oggyoggy on May 17, 2022 10:49:05 GMT
Why? For saying brexit will cause major problems in N Ire and to the GFA, being dismissed as project fear, and then that happening!? This is entirely Johnson’s fault for striking a terrible deal. Anyone who voted brexit also should take some responsibility. Whilst I know they were completely lied to, remainers did tell them that at the time and they were dismissed, rather than listened to, and look where we are. Had remainers been listened to, this issue wouldn’t exist, and Johnson wouldn’t be PM, and the UK would be a much better place to live. Completely disagree. The NI situation could have been easily resolved if the parties chose to. The solution was no border. Anywhere. Manage any problems as they occur. Instead EU single market dogma took over and May wilted. Without us choosing the leave the EU, there is no issue. Without us choosing (not being forced, choosing) to leave the single market and customs union, there is no issue It is our choices that have got us here. Not the EU’s choices. The EU have been like a metronome. They will not agree to anything that could potentially hurt the integrity of their sacred single market. We have always known that. We have always been told that. But despite that, brexiteers seem to think they don’t mean it. So Johnson signed up to a deal compromising the UK internal market instead, in the hope the EU will eventually fold. They won’t. I guarantee if we said to the EU now, can we join the single market and customs union then they would agree, and be very happy with that solution. It is the UK government that won’t do that. So it is entirely the fault of the UK government, and those who voted for brexit that N ire is in a mess now. The mess is down the choices made by brexiteers at the ballot box, and by Boris Johnson’s implementation of the referendum result. As Farage famously said before the vote, “nobody is talking about leaving the single market”
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Post by partickpotter on May 17, 2022 11:08:19 GMT
Completely disagree. The NI situation could have been easily resolved if the parties chose to. The solution was no border. Anywhere. Manage any problems as they occur. Instead EU single market dogma took over and May wilted. Without us choosing the leave the EU, there is no issue. Without us choosing (not being forced, choosing) to leave the single market and customs union, there is no issue It is our choices that have got us here. Not the EU’s choices. The EU have been like a metronome. They will not agree to anything that could potentially hurt the integrity of their sacred single market. We have always known that. We have always been told that. But despite that, brexiteers seem to think they don’t mean it. So Johnson signed up to a deal compromising the UK internal market instead, in the hope the EU will eventually fold. They won’t. I guarantee if we said to the EU now, can we join the single market and customs union then they would agree, and be very happy with that solution. It is the UK government that won’t do that. So it is entirely the fault of the UK government, and those who voted for brexit that N ire is in a mess now. The mess is down the choices made by brexiteers at the ballot box, and by Boris Johnson’s implementation of the referendum result. As Farage famously said before the vote, “nobody is talking about leaving the single market” Not at all. As mentioned previously, the mess is down to May, Remainiacs and the EU who refused to respect the UK decision and sought ways to punish the UK including, among other things, cynically exploiting the situation in Northern Ireland. So we disagree. Which is fine. And from what I can see it’s unlikely you will see the error of your ways so we’ve probably run this exchange as far as it can go. 😊
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Post by foster on May 17, 2022 11:23:27 GMT
Without us choosing the leave the EU, there is no issue. Without us choosing (not being forced, choosing) to leave the single market and customs union, there is no issue It is our choices that have got us here. Not the EU’s choices. The EU have been like a metronome. They will not agree to anything that could potentially hurt the integrity of their sacred single market. We have always known that. We have always been told that. But despite that, brexiteers seem to think they don’t mean it. So Johnson signed up to a deal compromising the UK internal market instead, in the hope the EU will eventually fold. They won’t. I guarantee if we said to the EU now, can we join the single market and customs union then they would agree, and be very happy with that solution. It is the UK government that won’t do that. So it is entirely the fault of the UK government, and those who voted for brexit that N ire is in a mess now. The mess is down the choices made by brexiteers at the ballot box, and by Boris Johnson’s implementation of the referendum result. As Farage famously said before the vote, “nobody is talking about leaving the single market” Not at all. As mentioned previously, the mess is down to May, Remainiacs and the EU who refused to respect the UK decision and sought ways to punish the UK including, among other things, cynically exploiting the situation in Northern Ireland. So we disagree. Which is fine. And from what I can see it’s unlikely you will see the error of your ways so we’ve probably run this exchange as far as it can go. 😊 I'd say it's down to poor planning and opportunist politicians feeding the public a load of bullshit.
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Post by oggyoggy on May 17, 2022 11:23:59 GMT
Without us choosing the leave the EU, there is no issue. Without us choosing (not being forced, choosing) to leave the single market and customs union, there is no issue It is our choices that have got us here. Not the EU’s choices. The EU have been like a metronome. They will not agree to anything that could potentially hurt the integrity of their sacred single market. We have always known that. We have always been told that. But despite that, brexiteers seem to think they don’t mean it. So Johnson signed up to a deal compromising the UK internal market instead, in the hope the EU will eventually fold. They won’t. I guarantee if we said to the EU now, can we join the single market and customs union then they would agree, and be very happy with that solution. It is the UK government that won’t do that. So it is entirely the fault of the UK government, and those who voted for brexit that N ire is in a mess now. The mess is down the choices made by brexiteers at the ballot box, and by Boris Johnson’s implementation of the referendum result. As Farage famously said before the vote, “nobody is talking about leaving the single market” Not at all. As mentioned previously, the mess is down to May, Remainiacs and the EU who refused to respect the UK decision and sought ways to punish the UK including, among other things, cynically exploiting the situation in Northern Ireland. So we disagree. Which is fine. And from what I can see it’s unlikely you will see the error of your ways so we’ve probably run this exchange as far as it can go. 😊 Your explanation lacks logic though. You blame the people who warned against the problem rather than the people who belligerently pursued it and agreed to a specific treaty that would create the problem. That’s like blaming the Ukraine war on those who warned that Putin posed a danger, rather than blaming Putin himself.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 17, 2022 11:27:13 GMT
Without us choosing the leave the EU, there is no issue. Without us choosing (not being forced, choosing) to leave the single market and customs union, there is no issue It is our choices that have got us here. Not the EU’s choices. The EU have been like a metronome. They will not agree to anything that could potentially hurt the integrity of their sacred single market. We have always known that. We have always been told that. But despite that, brexiteers seem to think they don’t mean it. So Johnson signed up to a deal compromising the UK internal market instead, in the hope the EU will eventually fold. They won’t. I guarantee if we said to the EU now, can we join the single market and customs union then they would agree, and be very happy with that solution. It is the UK government that won’t do that. So it is entirely the fault of the UK government, and those who voted for brexit that N ire is in a mess now. The mess is down the choices made by brexiteers at the ballot box, and by Boris Johnson’s implementation of the referendum result. As Farage famously said before the vote, “nobody is talking about leaving the single market” Not at all. As mentioned previously, the mess is down to May, Remainiacs and the EU who refused to respect the UK decision and sought ways to punish the UK including, among other things, cynically exploiting the situation in Northern Ireland. So we disagree. Which is fine. And from what I can see it’s unlikely you will see the error of your ways so we’ve probably run this exchange as far as it can go. 😊 And as has been explained to you, the elephant in the room was always there. The Tories and the ERG chose to ignore it in the hope that it would go away. It hasn't.
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Post by wannabee on May 17, 2022 12:09:22 GMT
Why? For saying brexit will cause major problems in N Ire and to the GFA, being dismissed as project fear, and then that happening!? This is entirely Johnson’s fault for striking a terrible deal. Anyone who voted brexit also should take some responsibility. Whilst I know they were completely lied to, remainers did tell them that at the time and they were dismissed, rather than listened to, and look where we are. Had remainers been listened to, this issue wouldn’t exist, and Johnson wouldn’t be PM, and the UK would be a much better place to live. Completely disagree. The NI situation could have been easily resolved if the parties chose to. The solution was no border. Anywhere. Manage any problems as they occur. Instead EU single market dogma took over and May wilted. You are either deliberately or inadvertently misrepresenting the true situation EU Membership is specifically referenced in the GFA it allowed NI Citizens to be either British, Irish, EU Citizens or a combination which thus blurred the Sovereignty lines. As both Co Guarantors of the GFA were within EU no border issues occur When Brexit occurred resolving the now conflict of having a Border between UK and EU and its implications for GFA became front and centre No discussions could commence between EU and UK on a FTA until this matter was resolved May's solution was the Backstop which would have kept UK and EU in same Single Market and Customs Union, problem solved This was rejected 3 times by UK Parliament Boris's solution was The Protocol which kept NI in EU Single Market but UK Customs Union. This effectively treated NI differently to GB which is anathema to Unionists The inevitable consequences of this is the breakup of The Union. This is what prompted May to say to Boris in HOC that " no British Prime Minister could agree a Border in the Irish Sea" Boris knew exactly what he was signing, he may be slippery, but he's not a fool. He lied to Parliament that it meant one thing he lied to Unionists that it meant another. Most if not all who voted for The Agreement including the DUP knew or turned a blind eye as to what they were agreeing Can anything be done to ameliorate The Protocol? Yes The UK has an SPS Agreement with New Zealand which allows Food Products and Animals to travel freely between each country with minimal checks as they mutually accept each other's SPS Standards EU also has an SPS Agreement with New Zealand and indeed Switzerland which has a similar outcome EU offered UK as a whole or just restricted to NI an SPS Agreement which the UK turned down ! The Leader of DUP Jeffrey Donaldson, his predecessor Arlene Foster and the Leader of other main Unionists Party UUP are all on record as saying this would resolve most if not all issues of Imports to NI commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-2021-0214/Why will UK not agree an SPS Agreement with EU ? In my opinion it can only be for one reason. If UK or just NI enters an SPS agreement with EU it agrees to keep Food and Animal Safety Standards Equivalent. This places a barrier on potential Trade deals with US and Canada who will both insist that Hormone Treated Beef and Chlorinated Chicken are part of any Agreement thus invalidating any SPS Agreement with EU In the short and perhaps medium term we can look forward to instability in NI who can not have a functioning Government and a ratcheting up of the blame game between UK and EU
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 17, 2022 12:11:01 GMT
Completely disagree. The NI situation could have been easily resolved if the parties chose to. The solution was no border. Anywhere. Manage any problems as they occur. Instead EU single market dogma took over and May wilted. You are either deliberately or inadvertently misrepresenting the true situation EU Membership is specifically referenced in the GFA it allowed NI Citizens to be either British, Irish, EU Citizens or a combination which thus blurred the Sovereignty lines. As both Co Guarantors of the GFA were within EU no border issues occur When Brexit occurred resolving the now conflict of having a Border between UK and EU and its implications for GFA became front and centre No discussions could commence between EU and UK on a FTA until this matter was resolved May's solution was the Backstop which would have kept UK and EU in same Single Market and Customs Union, problem solved This was rejected 3 times by UK Parliament Boris's solution was The Protocol which kept NI in EU Single Market but UK Customs Union. This effectively treated NI differently to GB which is anathema to Unionists The inevitable consequences of this is the breakup of The Union. This is what prompted May to say to Boris in HOC that " no British Prime Minister could agree a Border in the Irish Sea" Boris knew exactly what he was signing, he may be slippery, but he's not a fool. He lied to Parliament that it meant one thing he lied to Unionists that it meant another. Most if not all who voted for The Agreement including the DUP knew or turned a blind eye as to what they were agreeing Can anything be done to ameliorate The Protocol? Yes The UK has an SPS Agreement with New Zealand which allows Food Products and Animals to travel freely between each country with minimal checks as they mutually accept each other's SPS Standards EU also has an SPS Agreement with New Zealand and indeed Switzerland which has a similar outcome EU offered UK as a whole or just restricted to NI an SPS Agreement which the UK turned down ! The Leader of DUP Jeffrey Donaldson, his predecessor Arlene Foster and the Leader of other main Unionists Party UUP are all on record as saying this would resolve most if not all issues of Imports to NI commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-2021-0214/Why will UK not agree an SPS Agreement with EU ? In my opinion it can only be for one reason. If UK or just NI enters an SPS agreement with EU it agrees to keep Food and Animal Safety Standards Equivalent. This places a barrier on potential Trade deals with US and Canada who will both insist that Hormone Treated Beef and Chlorinated Chicken are part of any Agreement thus invalidating any SPS Agreement with EU In the short and perhaps medium term we can look forward to instability in NI who can not have a functioning Government and a ratcheting up of the blame game between UK and EU Excellent post.
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Post by partickpotter on May 17, 2022 12:18:05 GMT
Not at all. As mentioned previously, the mess is down to May, Remainiacs and the EU who refused to respect the UK decision and sought ways to punish the UK including, among other things, cynically exploiting the situation in Northern Ireland. So we disagree. Which is fine. And from what I can see it’s unlikely you will see the error of your ways so we’ve probably run this exchange as far as it can go. 😊 Your explanation lacks logic though. You blame the people who warned against the problem rather than the people who belligerently pursued it and agreed to a specific treaty that would create the problem. That’s like blaming the Ukraine war on those who warned that Putin posed a danger, rather than blaming Putin himself. Not at all.
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Post by partickpotter on May 17, 2022 12:20:40 GMT
Completely disagree. The NI situation could have been easily resolved if the parties chose to. The solution was no border. Anywhere. Manage any problems as they occur. Instead EU single market dogma took over and May wilted. You are either deliberately or inadvertently misrepresenting the true situation EU Membership is specifically referenced in the GFA it allowed NI Citizens to be either British, Irish, EU Citizens or a combination which thus blurred the Sovereignty lines. As both Co Guarantors of the GFA were within EU no border issues occur When Brexit occurred resolving the now conflict of having a Border between UK and EU and its implications for GFA became front and centre No discussions could commence between EU and UK on a FTA until this matter was resolved May's solution was the Backstop which would have kept UK and EU in same Single Market and Customs Union, problem solved This was rejected 3 times by UK Parliament Boris's solution was The Protocol which kept NI in EU Single Market but UK Customs Union. This effectively treated NI differently to GB which is anathema to Unionists The inevitable consequences of this is the breakup of The Union. This is what prompted May to say to Boris in HOC that " no British Prime Minister could agree a Border in the Irish Sea" Boris knew exactly what he was signing, he may be slippery, but he's not a fool. He lied to Parliament that it meant one thing he lied to Unionists that it meant another. Most if not all who voted for The Agreement including the DUP knew or turned a blind eye as to what they were agreeing Can anything be done to ameliorate The Protocol? Yes The UK has an SPS Agreement with New Zealand which allows Food Products and Animals to travel freely between each country with minimal checks as they mutually accept each other's SPS Standards EU also has an SPS Agreement with New Zealand and indeed Switzerland which has a similar outcome EU offered UK as a whole or just restricted to NI an SPS Agreement which the UK turned down ! The Leader of DUP Jeffrey Donaldson, his predecessor Arlene Foster and the Leader of other main Unionists Party UUP are all on record as saying this would resolve most if not all issues of Imports to NI commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-2021-0214/Why will UK not agree an SPS Agreement with EU ? In my opinion it can only be for one reason. If UK or just NI enters an SPS agreement with EU it agrees to keep Food and Animal Safety Standards Equivalent. This places a barrier on potential Trade deals with US and Canada who will both insist that Hormone Treated Beef and Chlorinated Chicken are part of any Agreement thus invalidating any SPS Agreement with EU In the short and perhaps medium term we can look forward to instability in NI who can not have a functioning Government and a ratcheting up of the blame game between UK and EU It’s really simple. No border. No problem. That’s the solution. Who insisted on a border? The EU. We should have told them to jump.
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Post by oggyoggy on May 17, 2022 12:25:55 GMT
You are either deliberately or inadvertently misrepresenting the true situation EU Membership is specifically referenced in the GFA it allowed NI Citizens to be either British, Irish, EU Citizens or a combination which thus blurred the Sovereignty lines. As both Co Guarantors of the GFA were within EU no border issues occur When Brexit occurred resolving the now conflict of having a Border between UK and EU and its implications for GFA became front and centre No discussions could commence between EU and UK on a FTA until this matter was resolved May's solution was the Backstop which would have kept UK and EU in same Single Market and Customs Union, problem solved This was rejected 3 times by UK Parliament Boris's solution was The Protocol which kept NI in EU Single Market but UK Customs Union. This effectively treated NI differently to GB which is anathema to Unionists The inevitable consequences of this is the breakup of The Union. This is what prompted May to say to Boris in HOC that " no British Prime Minister could agree a Border in the Irish Sea" Boris knew exactly what he was signing, he may be slippery, but he's not a fool. He lied to Parliament that it meant one thing he lied to Unionists that it meant another. Most if not all who voted for The Agreement including the DUP knew or turned a blind eye as to what they were agreeing Can anything be done to ameliorate The Protocol? Yes The UK has an SPS Agreement with New Zealand which allows Food Products and Animals to travel freely between each country with minimal checks as they mutually accept each other's SPS Standards EU also has an SPS Agreement with New Zealand and indeed Switzerland which has a similar outcome EU offered UK as a whole or just restricted to NI an SPS Agreement which the UK turned down ! The Leader of DUP Jeffrey Donaldson, his predecessor Arlene Foster and the Leader of other main Unionists Party UUP are all on record as saying this would resolve most if not all issues of Imports to NI commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-2021-0214/Why will UK not agree an SPS Agreement with EU ? In my opinion it can only be for one reason. If UK or just NI enters an SPS agreement with EU it agrees to keep Food and Animal Safety Standards Equivalent. This places a barrier on potential Trade deals with US and Canada who will both insist that Hormone Treated Beef and Chlorinated Chicken are part of any Agreement thus invalidating any SPS Agreement with EU In the short and perhaps medium term we can look forward to instability in NI who can not have a functioning Government and a ratcheting up of the blame game between UK and EU It’s really simple. No border. No problem. That’s the solution. Who insisted on a border? The EU. We should have told them to jump. We insisted on the border. We chose to leave the single market and customs union (something the public did not vote on) thus creating the trade border somewhere. Between England and France, and England and Northern Ireland in order to protect the GFA. Again, that was our decision. Entirely our doing. Entirely our fault. We should ask the EU if they will approve the UK rejoining the single market and customs union. If the EU says no, then it is their fault.
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Post by partickpotter on May 17, 2022 12:27:50 GMT
It’s really simple. No border. No problem. That’s the solution. Who insisted on a border? The EU. We should have told them to jump. We insisted on the border. We chose to leave the single market and customs union (something the public did not vote on) thus creating the trade border somewhere. Between England and France, and England and Northern Ireland in order to protect the GFA. Again, that was our decision. Entirely our doing. Entirely our fault. We should ask the EU if they will approve the UK rejoining the single market and customs union. If the EU says no, then it is their fault. No we didn’t. Leaving the Eu and the single market did not require border controls in Ireland.
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Post by oggyoggy on May 17, 2022 12:34:24 GMT
We insisted on the border. We chose to leave the single market and customs union (something the public did not vote on) thus creating the trade border somewhere. Between England and France, and England and Northern Ireland in order to protect the GFA. Again, that was our decision. Entirely our doing. Entirely our fault. We should ask the EU if they will approve the UK rejoining the single market and customs union. If the EU says no, then it is their fault. No we didn’t. Leaving the Eu and the single market did not require border controls in Ireland. It requires trade borders between us and nations in the single market. We knew that when we voted for brexit
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 17, 2022 12:35:12 GMT
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on May 17, 2022 12:41:30 GMT
Don’t blame May! She completely saw this coming and has been utterly vindicated. Her words were that no British PM could ever willingly impose a border down the Irish Sea….step up Boris Johnson! Also this wasn’t the EU’s solution. It is what we wanted. I’m sure the EU would have preferred we were members of the single market. Much simpler and makes better financial sense for all too. We chose this. It is our mess. Sorry pal… I hold May, the Remainiacs and the EU fully accountable for the Northern Ireland mess. Blaming the EU is like blaming the other team for scoring more goals when Stoke have lost.
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Post by partickpotter on May 17, 2022 12:43:14 GMT
Sorry pal… I hold May, the Remainiacs and the EU fully accountable for the Northern Ireland mess. Blaming the EU is like blaming the other team for scoring more goals when Stoke have lost. Nonsense.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on May 17, 2022 12:52:11 GMT
Blaming the EU is like blaming the other team for scoring more goals when Stoke have lost. Nonsense. "Yes, we were poor today, and yes the other team came here to score goals but I didn't actually expect them to do it. We have a game plan that is perfect if the other teams does us a few favours, and I'm very annoyed that the opposition came here to do their best and didn't allow us a couple of open goals." - Boris Johnson, England manager
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Post by wannabee on May 17, 2022 13:07:27 GMT
You are either deliberately or inadvertently misrepresenting the true situation EU Membership is specifically referenced in the GFA it allowed NI Citizens to be either British, Irish, EU Citizens or a combination which thus blurred the Sovereignty lines. As both Co Guarantors of the GFA were within EU no border issues occur When Brexit occurred resolving the now conflict of having a Border between UK and EU and its implications for GFA became front and centre No discussions could commence between EU and UK on a FTA until this matter was resolved May's solution was the Backstop which would have kept UK and EU in same Single Market and Customs Union, problem solved This was rejected 3 times by UK Parliament Boris's solution was The Protocol which kept NI in EU Single Market but UK Customs Union. This effectively treated NI differently to GB which is anathema to Unionists The inevitable consequences of this is the breakup of The Union. This is what prompted May to say to Boris in HOC that " no British Prime Minister could agree a Border in the Irish Sea" Boris knew exactly what he was signing, he may be slippery, but he's not a fool. He lied to Parliament that it meant one thing he lied to Unionists that it meant another. Most if not all who voted for The Agreement including the DUP knew or turned a blind eye as to what they were agreeing Can anything be done to ameliorate The Protocol? Yes The UK has an SPS Agreement with New Zealand which allows Food Products and Animals to travel freely between each country with minimal checks as they mutually accept each other's SPS Standards EU also has an SPS Agreement with New Zealand and indeed Switzerland which has a similar outcome EU offered UK as a whole or just restricted to NI an SPS Agreement which the UK turned down ! The Leader of DUP Jeffrey Donaldson, his predecessor Arlene Foster and the Leader of other main Unionists Party UUP are all on record as saying this would resolve most if not all issues of Imports to NI commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-2021-0214/Why will UK not agree an SPS Agreement with EU ? In my opinion it can only be for one reason. If UK or just NI enters an SPS agreement with EU it agrees to keep Food and Animal Safety Standards Equivalent. This places a barrier on potential Trade deals with US and Canada who will both insist that Hormone Treated Beef and Chlorinated Chicken are part of any Agreement thus invalidating any SPS Agreement with EU In the short and perhaps medium term we can look forward to instability in NI who can not have a functioning Government and a ratcheting up of the blame game between UK and EU It’s really simple. No border. No problem. That’s the solution. Who insisted on a border? The EU. We should have told them to jump. Again you are misleading the MB perhaps inadvertently You are wrong on so many different levels UK is a Third Country in relation to EU under International Law UK chose to erect a border (In the Irish Sea) when it selected the type of Brexit it wanted EU has countless Trade Agreements throughout the world. As part of these Trade Agreements in many cases these include recognition of each other's EQUIVALENCE on SPS The UK has REFUSED to enter an SPS EQUIVALENCE AGREEMENT with EU which obliges EU to implement Border checks If the EU didn't implement Border Checks it would be in breach of these Trade Agreements and WTO Rules Unlike the UK the EU takes its obligations under International Agreements seriously
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Post by followyoudown on May 17, 2022 13:35:15 GMT
You are either deliberately or inadvertently misrepresenting the true situation EU Membership is specifically referenced in the GFA it allowed NI Citizens to be either British, Irish, EU Citizens or a combination which thus blurred the Sovereignty lines. As both Co Guarantors of the GFA were within EU no border issues occur When Brexit occurred resolving the now conflict of having a Border between UK and EU and its implications for GFA became front and centre No discussions could commence between EU and UK on a FTA until this matter was resolved May's solution was the Backstop which would have kept UK and EU in same Single Market and Customs Union, problem solved This was rejected 3 times by UK Parliament Boris's solution was The Protocol which kept NI in EU Single Market but UK Customs Union. This effectively treated NI differently to GB which is anathema to Unionists The inevitable consequences of this is the breakup of The Union. This is what prompted May to say to Boris in HOC that " no British Prime Minister could agree a Border in the Irish Sea" Boris knew exactly what he was signing, he may be slippery, but he's not a fool. He lied to Parliament that it meant one thing he lied to Unionists that it meant another. Most if not all who voted for The Agreement including the DUP knew or turned a blind eye as to what they were agreeing Can anything be done to ameliorate The Protocol? Yes The UK has an SPS Agreement with New Zealand which allows Food Products and Animals to travel freely between each country with minimal checks as they mutually accept each other's SPS Standards EU also has an SPS Agreement with New Zealand and indeed Switzerland which has a similar outcome EU offered UK as a whole or just restricted to NI an SPS Agreement which the UK turned down ! The Leader of DUP Jeffrey Donaldson, his predecessor Arlene Foster and the Leader of other main Unionists Party UUP are all on record as saying this would resolve most if not all issues of Imports to NI commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-2021-0214/Why will UK not agree an SPS Agreement with EU ? In my opinion it can only be for one reason. If UK or just NI enters an SPS agreement with EU it agrees to keep Food and Animal Safety Standards Equivalent. This places a barrier on potential Trade deals with US and Canada who will both insist that Hormone Treated Beef and Chlorinated Chicken are part of any Agreement thus invalidating any SPS Agreement with EU In the short and perhaps medium term we can look forward to instability in NI who can not have a functioning Government and a ratcheting up of the blame game between UK and EU It’s really simple. No border. No problem. That’s the solution. Who insisted on a border? The EU. We should have told them to jump. Yep the EU pushed by the republic once Leo took over as they were worried any checks would otherwise be Eire to the EU and they thought it was a chance to push for a united ireland.
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Post by followyoudown on May 17, 2022 13:36:47 GMT
It’s really simple. No border. No problem. That’s the solution. Who insisted on a border? The EU. We should have told them to jump. Again you are misleading the MB perhaps inadvertently You are wrong on so many different levels UK is a Third Country in relation to EU under International Law UK chose to erect a border (In the Irish Sea) when it selected the type of Brexit it wanted EU has countless Trade Agreements throughout the world. As part of these Trade Agreements in many cases these include recognition of each other's EQUIVALENCE on SPS The UK has REFUSED to enter an SPS EQUIVALENCE AGREEMENT with EU which obliges EU to implement Border checks If the EU didn't implement Border Checks it would be in breach of these Trade Agreements and WTO Rules Unlike the UK the EU takes its obligations under International Agreements seriously Ha ha ha ha is that the EU telling companies to open rouble bank accounts to pay russia to get around sanctions.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 17, 2022 13:57:04 GMT
Again you are misleading the MB perhaps inadvertently You are wrong on so many different levels UK is a Third Country in relation to EU under International Law UK chose to erect a border (In the Irish Sea) when it selected the type of Brexit it wanted EU has countless Trade Agreements throughout the world. As part of these Trade Agreements in many cases these include recognition of each other's EQUIVALENCE on SPS The UK has REFUSED to enter an SPS EQUIVALENCE AGREEMENT with EU which obliges EU to implement Border checks If the EU didn't implement Border Checks it would be in breach of these Trade Agreements and WTO Rules Unlike the UK the EU takes its obligations under International Agreements seriously Ha ha ha ha is that the EU telling companies to open rouble bank accounts to pay russia to get around sanctions. Your Tory mates know all about getting paid in roubles, eh mate?
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Post by wannabee on May 17, 2022 14:04:21 GMT
Again you are misleading the MB perhaps inadvertently You are wrong on so many different levels UK is a Third Country in relation to EU under International Law UK chose to erect a border (In the Irish Sea) when it selected the type of Brexit it wanted EU has countless Trade Agreements throughout the world. As part of these Trade Agreements in many cases these include recognition of each other's EQUIVALENCE on SPS The UK has REFUSED to enter an SPS EQUIVALENCE AGREEMENT with EU which obliges EU to implement Border checks If the EU didn't implement Border Checks it would be in breach of these Trade Agreements and WTO Rules Unlike the UK the EU takes its obligations under International Agreements seriously Ha ha ha ha is that the EU telling companies to open rouble bank accounts to pay russia to get around sanctions. Not surprisingly this is FAKE NEWS The EU advise was that it was legal under sanctions rules to open Bank Accounts with Russian Banks but payments for Oil and Gas must be made in the currency of which the original contract was made I.e. predominantly Dollars or Euro's (not Roubles)
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 17, 2022 14:05:22 GMT
Not at all. As mentioned previously, the mess is down to May, Remainiacs and the EU who refused to respect the UK decision and sought ways to punish the UK including, among other things, cynically exploiting the situation in Northern Ireland. So we disagree. Which is fine. And from what I can see it’s unlikely you will see the error of your ways so we’ve probably run this exchange as far as it can go. 😊 I'd say it's down to poor planning and opportunist politicians feeding the public a load of bullshit. Precisely, as that clip higher up the page shows only too well. Johnson will say anything in any given moment to get out of a situation. Sadly, millions of people happily swallow it every time.
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Post by wannabee on May 17, 2022 14:05:28 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 17, 2022 14:08:38 GMT
What's happened to Partick? He appears to have morphed into FYD!
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Post by foster on May 17, 2022 14:12:44 GMT
Blaming the EU is like blaming the other team for scoring more goals when Stoke have lost. Nonsense. Well, I don't know about anyone else, but this argument has swung it for me.
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Post by partickpotter on May 17, 2022 14:16:13 GMT
Well, I don't know about anyone else, but this argument has swung it for me.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 17, 2022 14:21:34 GMT
Ah well...Tories gotta lie....
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Post by oggyoggy on May 17, 2022 14:47:49 GMT
Sorry pal… I hold May, the Remainiacs and the EU fully accountable for the Northern Ireland mess. Blaming the EU is like blaming the other team for scoring more goals when Stoke have lost. The analogy works better if the goals the other team scored were all own goals by Stoke.
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Post by foster on May 17, 2022 16:00:24 GMT
Blaming the EU is like blaming the other team for scoring more goals when Stoke have lost. The analogy works better if the goals the other team scored were all own goals by Stoke. You can't blame the EU for looking out for their interests. Much like we left the EU on the pretense that we were looking out for ours. The tragedy of the situation is that both the EU and UK have lost out in this. Brexit is really something that just should never have even been proposed in the first place. There are so many more important things to focus on than wasting years on this.
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