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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 17, 2020 20:07:12 GMT
Obviously I don't agree Foghorn. I don't need to repeat my reasons in detail as you say you have been aware of them for years. I held those views before the referendum was even on the agenda and I am more convinced now. Presumably it is possible for a country not to be in the EU and that is what the electorate unexpectedly chose. It seems that Remainers are finding it really difficult to come to terms with it. The Coronavirus is a separate issue, in itself non political but it seems that Remainers now want to use it to get a ( never-ending?) extension. Despite the political and economic importance of Brexit other issues and challenges face this country and other countries...everything isn't about Brexit. I believe 100% that it is indeed the EU who have been unreasonable in the negotiations, as far as I am aware...of the facts....it is very hard for them.to come to terms with our leaving. Of course there will be disruption. I'm now beginning to think that because of the personalities involved in the top down, centralist,anti democratic organisation " they " might in fact be working towards ensuring that there is total chaos on 1 January 2021 so that the UK can be punished. It doesn't have to be like that. Funnily enough unlike my fellow leaver, Vokeswagen, I would not call the EU a nasty organisation. One employee of the EU that I know is one of the kindest, most honest men that you could meet. Simply a group of power hungry people with a vision for Europe of which I don't agree...Nothing wrong with havingthat vision....SimplyI don't agreewith it..in particular I don't agree with the imposition of that vision without consent. I'm not particularly a Johnson fan, but those of us , including Brexiteers of Stoke-on-Trent, had no choice but to vote for him...a failure of the Left. Having said that he and Frost seem to be doing a sterling job in the circumstances. The remaining accusation about international law and our reputation is nonsense...quite the opposite...thise people who know what's going on will respect our resolve in leaving. Actually the UK has never wholeheartedly agreed to the project, never Euro enthusiasts....until some sort of fanatical emotional attachment has been engendered through Brexit. It is inevitable in my opinion that we would have to make a significant decision in the future in respect of the Euro...the unminuted Eurogroup, as I'm sure you know are controlling the project,steered by France and Germany and in their interests , particularly in continental ( particularly Eastern) Europe. We don't fit easily in that. Are you in favour of joining the Euro, complete freedom of movement across Europe and the agricultural, industrial, foreign , fisheries policies being decided in Brussels?... I'm not. A good win today eh? You have a very pompous writing style for a man with a school leavers reading comprehension. Thank you very much. It does seem to be taking you long time to understand that the personal stuff has no effect on me whatsoever. It does strengthen my argument though.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 17, 2020 20:23:50 GMT
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Post by Kpsje on Oct 17, 2020 20:34:13 GMT
time for a musical interlude.
here’s a 4 year old classic.
finally someone speaking up about all the stolen fish. makes you proud to be british (thumbs up)
edit: receiving a like off vokes equates to a like off joseph goebbles.
not wanted or needed lol
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Post by numpty40 on Oct 17, 2020 20:39:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2020 21:18:28 GMT
You have a very pompous writing style for a man with a school leavers reading comprehension. Thank you very much. It does seem to be taking you long time to understand that the personal stuff has no effect on me whatsoever. It does strengthen my argument though. I am not engaging with your arguments as they appear to be a stream of consciousness rambling. My argument is that your writing style is pompous. I don't see how that bolsters your argument in any way. Have a lovely evening, officer 🚨
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 17, 2020 21:22:44 GMT
Thank you very much. It does seem to be taking you long time to understand that the personal stuff has no effect on me whatsoever. It does strengthen my argument though. I am not engaging with your arguments as they appear to be a stream of consciousness rambling. My argument is that your writing style is pompous. I don't see how that bolsters your argument in any way. Have a lovely evening, officer 🚨 Thank you very much. It does seem to be taking you long time to understand that the personal stuff has no effect on me whatsoever. It does strengthen my argument though.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 18, 2020 0:33:27 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 18, 2020 6:51:28 GMT
I'd agree with some of that. Plus, more importantly ....greed, lack of empathy, caring and realism. False values. A disconnect between the people and those that govern them, the party political system that stops people/ decision makers and followers, thinking what is best , instead blindly following party loyalty....hence short termism..." how do we win the next election?" Plus many others
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 18, 2020 7:13:48 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 18, 2020 7:15:03 GMT
I'd agree with some of that. Plus, more importantly ....greed, lack of empathy, caring and realism. False values. A disconnect between the people and those that govern them, the party political system that stops people/ decision makers and followers, thinking what is best , instead blindly following party loyalty....hence short termism..." how do we win the next election?" Plus many others I know. Let's deal with that by making things worse...! Blindly following "party" loyalty is what you do all the time. There isn't a problem in the UK that isn't the fault of the Left, Remainers, the EU, etc!
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 18, 2020 7:31:40 GMT
I'd agree with some of that. Plus, more importantly ....greed, lack of empathy, caring and realism. False values. A disconnect between the people and those that govern them, the party political system that stops people/ decision makers and followers, thinking what is best , instead blindly following party loyalty....hence short termism..." how do we win the next election?" Plus many others I know. Let's deal with that by making things worse...! Blindly following "party" loyalty is what you do all the time. There isn't a problem in the UK that isn't the fault of the Left, Remainers, the EU, etc! Yes , in recent years those who think they are on the left have certainly made things worse.....which doesn't excuse Boris, but does give him a lot of room to manoeuvre. Not at all, I'm just agreeing with Boris's sentiments and adding to them. Before , during and following Brexit we are faced with many issues, not confined to the UK. On the party loyalty , I have been a member of our, UKIP, Brexit party and now find myself having to support the Tories on Brexit. I would not presume that everything you read on a messageboard says everything you need to know about a person....you do tend to try to make things personal. I would have loved to be in a position to have voted Labour, but they have been a million miles off the issues in recent years...as a starting point I'm not even sure that " Labour/ the Left " actually like the country. Do you agree with Boris?
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Post by thevoid on Oct 18, 2020 7:55:23 GMT
Please stop posting fake news from social media. You're no better than the whoppers who put MEMEs up about shops refusing to sell poppies. The Byline Times is a joke.
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Post by elystokie on Oct 18, 2020 8:01:57 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 18, 2020 8:31:07 GMT
Please stop posting fake news from social media. You're no better than the whoppers who put MEMEs up about shops refusing to sell poppies. The Byline Times is a joke. He missed out this bit, the thing is if huddy is banging the drum for something its pretty much proof nothing will happen from election expenses, change is coming, the poisionings, change is definitely coming this time etc etc he has a near 100% record on getting it wrong
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Post by thevoid on Oct 18, 2020 8:34:26 GMT
Please stop posting fake news from social media. You're no better than the whoppers who put MEMEs up about shops refusing to sell poppies. The Byline Times is a joke. He missed out this bit, the thing is if huddy is banging the drum for something its pretty much proof nothing will happen from election expenses, change is coming, the poisionings, change is definitely coming this time etc etc he has a near 100% record on getting it wrong It's the left wing variant of Infowars, rabid paranoid conspiracy nonsense that gets Remainers worked up. The stories it publishes have been repeatedly debunked. They've got about the same amount of followers as Morecambe FC which says it all.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 18, 2020 8:40:10 GMT
I know. Let's deal with that by making things worse...! Blindly following "party" loyalty is what you do all the time. There isn't a problem in the UK that isn't the fault of the Left, Remainers, the EU, etc! Yes , in recent years those who think they are on the left have certainly made things worse.....which doesn't excuse Boris, but does give him a lot of room to manoeuvre. Not at all, I'm just agreeing with Boris's sentiments and adding to them. Before , during and following Brexit we are faced with many issues, not confined to the UK. On the party loyalty , I have been a member of our, UKIP, Brexit party and now find myself having to support the Tories on Brexit. I would not presume that everything you read on a messageboard says everything you need to know about a person....you do tend to try to make things personal. I would have loved to be in a position to have voted Labour, but they have been a million miles off the issues in recent years...as a starting point I'm not even sure that " Labour/ the Left " actually like the country. Do you agree with Boris? You seem to have a bizarre obsession with going on about everything always being personal. It's not. However, if you put forward an argument that blind "party" loyalty is part of the problem (which you did), then contradict that with your every post being about how everything is the fault of the Left, Remainers and the EU, despite the obvious fact that the Right has been in power for over a decade, Brexiteers won the referendum and the EU is receding into the distance, you can't be surprised if others accuse you of talking bollocks! It's not personal, regardless of how much you like to fall back on that time after time, it's just people saying your arguments are incoherent, rambling nonsense. It's no different to people pointing out the inconsistency and double standards at play when commenting on many of the race threads on here, which stand out a mile as the most hypocritical, irrespective of whether those who populate them most frequently can see it or not. Most of the rest of the board can, which is why they get ignored by most people most of the time outside of the usual bunch...
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Post by dutchstokie on Oct 18, 2020 8:43:09 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 18, 2020 8:44:55 GMT
Please stop posting fake news from social media. You're no better than the whoppers who put MEMEs up about shops refusing to sell poppies. The Byline Times is a joke. He missed out this bit, the thing is if huddy is banging the drum for something its pretty much proof nothing will happen from election expenses, change is coming, the poisionings, change is definitely coming this time etc etc he has a near 100% record on getting it wrong For what it worth FYD , I think that Cambridge Analytica were involved in elections/ UK Brexit/USA. I also don't think it had very much of an impact upon the EU referendum....I think most people had/ have a fundamental stance on self governance/ sovereignty/ independence etc. I don't think many people went through a process of changing their minds and I don't think that their views were formed through social media, as powerful as it is. If anything the " official" attempt by the government to instill fear on working class , the threat of their jobs going to ensure conformity and the attempts to reverse the result, the collusion between the main parties abd the EU and the disconnect between Labour and the working class should be a much greater concern for the Left. Whether the involvement of CA is strictly speaking illegal or morally wrong are up for debate/ to be proven. I think that rules around elections/ postal votes/ funding of campaigns/ fake news/ manifestos- contracts etc needs addressing in the future.
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Post by thevoid on Oct 18, 2020 8:59:36 GMT
Rednwhitenblue post bingo:
Patronising tone and attitude ✅ Sweeping generalisations based on nothing but his own bias ✅ Complete myopia regarding Left Wing Club ✅ Exhibiting traits he jumps on others for ✅ A complete lack of sense of irony and self awareness ✅ A reference to some sort of gang ✅ Fixation over threads that have nothing to do with the current matter at hand ✅
HOUSE 🙋
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 18, 2020 8:59:37 GMT
He missed out this bit, the thing is if huddy is banging the drum for something its pretty much proof nothing will happen from election expenses, change is coming, the poisionings, change is definitely coming this time etc etc he has a near 100% record on getting it wrong It's the left wing variant of Infowars, rabid paranoid conspiracy nonsense that gets Remainers worked up. The stories it publishes have been repeatedly debunked. They've got about the same amount of followers as Morecambe FC which says it all. Pure grifting from a failed mainstream journalist, I used to follow him before he went full tinfoil, the phone hacking stuff was quite interesting even bought his book but at the end of it all despite massively overegging the impact and outcomes of trials the book was essentially a damp squid where he had not one piece of hard evidence.
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 18, 2020 9:09:37 GMT
He missed out this bit, the thing is if huddy is banging the drum for something its pretty much proof nothing will happen from election expenses, change is coming, the poisionings, change is definitely coming this time etc etc he has a near 100% record on getting it wrong For what it worth FYD , I think that Cambridge Analytica were involved in elections/ UK Brexit/USA. I also don't think it had very much of an impact upon the EU referendum....I think most people had/ have a fundamental stance on self governance/ sovereignty/ independence etc. I don't think many people went through a process of changing their minds and I don't think that their views were formed through social media, as powerful as it is. If anything the " official" attempt by the government to instill fear on working class , the threat of their jobs going to ensure conformity and the attempts to reverse the result, the collusion between the main parties abd the EU and the disconnect between Labour and the working class should be a much greater concern for the Left. Whether the involvement of CA is strictly speaking illegal or morally wrong are up for debate/ to be proven. I think that rules around elections/ postal votes/ funding of campaigns/ fake news/ manifestos- contracts etc needs addressing in the future. BJR you first paragraph is pretty much the non tinfoil version of how most people see it, connections, reach and influence have been massively overestimated just because the "good" people wanted to tie brexit to "bad" people trump, bannon, russia blah de blah. The truth is out there and documented on film in brexit the uncivil war, remain massively misjudged the vote went with project fear, leave sold a vision and engaged with people who had not voted before and had been jgnored by all governments for many years. Brexit was as you also say was the start of the break between Labour and the working class north no longer are there votes just to be taken for granted and if they dont like what the tories offer they will vote for someone else but the age of thoses seats being one parties for 60 years+ are now long gone.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 18, 2020 9:26:24 GMT
Yes , in recent years those who think they are on the left have certainly made things worse.....which doesn't excuse Boris, but does give him a lot of room to manoeuvre. Not at all, I'm just agreeing with Boris's sentiments and adding to them. Before , during and following Brexit we are faced with many issues, not confined to the UK. On the party loyalty , I have been a member of our, UKIP, Brexit party and now find myself having to support the Tories on Brexit. I would not presume that everything you read on a messageboard says everything you need to know about a person....you do tend to try to make things personal. I would have loved to be in a position to have voted Labour, but they have been a million miles off the issues in recent years...as a starting point I'm not even sure that " Labour/ the Left " actually like the country. Do you agree with Boris? You seem to have a bizarre obsession with going on about everything always being personal. It's not. However, if you put forward an argument that blind "party" loyalty is part of the problem (which you did), then contradict that with your every post being about how everything is the fault of the Left, Remainers and the EU, despite the obvious fact that the Right has been in power for over a decade, Brexiteers won the referendum and the EU is receding into the distance, you can't be surprised if others accuse you of talking bollocks! It's not personal, regardless of how much you like to fall back on that time after time, it's just people saying your arguments are incoherent, rambling nonsense. It's no different to people pointing out the inconsistency and double standards at play when commenting on many of the race threads on here, which stand out a mile as the most hypocritical, irrespective of whether those who populate them most frequently can see it or not. Most of the rest of the board can, which is why they get ignored by most people most of the time outside of the usual bunch... You do bring everything down to the personal. You have just done it in the post I'm quoting. See Voidy's post above. It is my view that the Left have badly let the working class down. Which doesn't mean that i support the Tories. You have just brought race into the thread again. I've done plenty of anti racist work in my time , even had in written in my job description when I worked for Derbyshire County Council. Unfortunately you seem to have difficulty debating unless it's from a stance of antagonism between " camps". Another symptom of the wide left , they have become very intolerant.....And then you have to resort to the personal....as though that adds to any argument. Other views are possible.
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Post by thevoid on Oct 18, 2020 10:37:31 GMT
You seem to have a bizarre obsession with going on about everything always being personal. It's not. However, if you put forward an argument that blind "party" loyalty is part of the problem (which you did), then contradict that with your every post being about how everything is the fault of the Left, Remainers and the EU, despite the obvious fact that the Right has been in power for over a decade, Brexiteers won the referendum and the EU is receding into the distance, you can't be surprised if others accuse you of talking bollocks! It's not personal, regardless of how much you like to fall back on that time after time, it's just people saying your arguments are incoherent, rambling nonsense. It's no different to people pointing out the inconsistency and double standards at play when commenting on many of the race threads on here, which stand out a mile as the most hypocritical, irrespective of whether those who populate them most frequently can see it or not. Most of the rest of the board can, which is why they get ignored by most people most of the time outside of the usual bunch... You do bring everything down to the personal. You have just done it in the post I'm quoting. See Voidy's post above. It is my view that the Left have badly let the working class down. Which doesn't mean that i support the Tories. You have just brought race into the thread again. I've done plenty of anti racist work in my time , even had in written in my job description when I worked for Derbyshire County Council. Unfortunately you seem to have difficulty debating unless it's from a stance of antagonism between " camps". Another symptom of the wide left , they have become very intolerant.....And then you have to resort to the personal....as though that adds to any argument. Other views are possible. He takes The Oatcake far too seriously doesn't he? Another one from his ever burgeoning catalogue of 'do as I say, not as I do'- even Prestwich told him on the Corbyn thread, it's just people exchanging views on a messageboard. No gangs, no right wing (or indeed, left wing) cabals. It's just a forum with a reasonable number of posters who don't know each other chewing the fat and debating various topics. Some of those people are righties, some are lefties and some are further removed from the centre than others. Nothing more than that- and quite naive of him if he thinks everyone has the same opinion on everything. Life isn't like that. He's been quick to tell FYD on a few occasions that social media might not be for him- perhaps he should take his own medicine if the sight of opinions different than his own upsets and fixates him to this extent 🤔 Goodness me, Bluers makes The Oatcake seem like a cross between Romper Stomper and A Clockwork Orange 😆
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Post by vokeswagen on Oct 18, 2020 10:48:53 GMT
You seem to have a bizarre obsession with going on about everything always being personal. It's not. However, if you put forward an argument that blind "party" loyalty is part of the problem (which you did), then contradict that with your every post being about how everything is the fault of the Left, Remainers and the EU, despite the obvious fact that the Right has been in power for over a decade, Brexiteers won the referendum and the EU is receding into the distance, you can't be surprised if others accuse you of talking bollocks! It's not personal, regardless of how much you like to fall back on that time after time, it's just people saying your arguments are incoherent, rambling nonsense. It's no different to people pointing out the inconsistency and double standards at play when commenting on many of the race threads on here, which stand out a mile as the most hypocritical, irrespective of whether those who populate them most frequently can see it or not. Most of the rest of the board can, which is why they get ignored by most people most of the time outside of the usual bunch... You do bring everything down to the personal. You have just done it in the post I'm quoting. See Voidy's post above. It is my view that the Left have badly let the working class down. Which doesn't mean that i support the Tories. You have just brought race into the thread again. I've done plenty of anti racist work in my time , even had in written in my job description when I worked for Derbyshire County Council. Unfortunately you seem to have difficulty debating unless it's from a stance of antagonism between " camps". Another symptom of the wide left , they have become very intolerant.....And then you have to resort to the personal....as though that adds to any argument. Other views are possible. You just outright lie about what people have posted mate. You spread fake news too. Neither of those tropes add a great deal to any argument either
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2020 11:11:28 GMT
I am not engaging with your arguments as they appear to be a stream of consciousness rambling. My argument is that your writing style is pompous. I don't see how that bolsters your argument in any way. Have a lovely evening, officer 🚨 Thank you very much. It does seem to be taking you long time to understand that the personal stuff has no effect on me whatsoever. It does strengthen my argument though. My argument is that your writing style is pompous. I don't see how that bolsters your argument in any way.
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Post by thevoid on Oct 18, 2020 11:22:59 GMT
Thank you very much. It does seem to be taking you long time to understand that the personal stuff has no effect on me whatsoever. It does strengthen my argument though. My argument is that your writing style is pompous. I don't see how that bolsters your argument in any way. I wouldn't say Vokesy posting like he's been on the beak gets too many people onside either, mate 😊
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 18, 2020 12:03:58 GMT
You do bring everything down to the personal. You have just done it in the post I'm quoting. See Voidy's post above. It is my view that the Left have badly let the working class down. Which doesn't mean that i support the Tories. You have just brought race into the thread again. I've done plenty of anti racist work in my time , even had in written in my job description when I worked for Derbyshire County Council. Unfortunately you seem to have difficulty debating unless it's from a stance of antagonism between " camps". Another symptom of the wide left , they have become very intolerant.....And then you have to resort to the personal....as though that adds to any argument. Other views are possible. You just outright lie about what people have posted mate. You spread fake news too. Neither of those tropes add a great deal to any argument either Oh dear! Forgive me. I'll try harder. I didn't know. Honest.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 18, 2020 12:04:51 GMT
Thank you very much. It does seem to be taking you long time to understand that the personal stuff has no effect on me whatsoever. It does strengthen my argument though. My argument is that your writing style is pompous. I don't see how that bolsters your argument in any way. I know that you don't see it.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 18, 2020 13:33:27 GMT
You do bring everything down to the personal. You have just done it in the post I'm quoting. See Voidy's post above. It is my view that the Left have badly let the working class down. Which doesn't mean that i support the Tories. You have just brought race into the thread again. I've done plenty of anti racist work in my time , even had in written in my job description when I worked for Derbyshire County Council. Unfortunately you seem to have difficulty debating unless it's from a stance of antagonism between " camps". Another symptom of the wide left , they have become very intolerant.....And then you have to resort to the personal....as though that adds to any argument. Other views are possible. You just outright lie about what people have posted mate. You spread fake news too. Neither of those tropes add a great deal to any argument either I'm not sure it's lying as such, more the endless need to create straw men arguments to deflect away from the one being talked about, especially if it's just plainly contradicted a previously held position! Chuck in a healthy dose of double standards and hypocrisy, such as liking posts from others which are purely personal in context despite being rather sensitive about that as an issue, and there you have it wrapped up! I think the thing you have to bear in mind with right-wing club in general is that there is an awful lot of Dunning-Kruger involved in that bunch, so go slowly...! (Sound of right-wing club keyboards trying to find out what Dunning-Kruger is )
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2020 13:46:22 GMT
You just outright lie about what people have posted mate. You spread fake news too. Neither of those tropes add a great deal to any argument either I'm not sure it's lying as such, more the endless need to create straw men arguments to deflect away from the one being talked about, especially if it's just plainly contradicted a previously held position! Chuck in a healthy dose of double standards and hypocrisy, such as liking posts from others which are purely personal in context despite being rather sensitive about that as an issue, and there you have it wrapped up! I think the thing you have to bear in mind with right-wing club in general is that there is an awful lot of Dunning-Kruger involved in that bunch, so go slowly...! I have a lot of time for john on here. Once you get your head around his insistence on bringing the "left" "far left" or the "even wider left" as he's now labelling them his posts are far more bearable
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