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Post by Clayton Wood on Aug 28, 2020 10:50:32 GMT
The same, obviously, but always good to ask. If Davey got elected ( ) is there a red line you wouldn't cross in being taken back in (assuming due process is followed and the majority voted to return)
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 28, 2020 12:09:15 GMT
The same, obviously, but always good to ask. If Davey got elected ( ) is there a red line you wouldn't cross in being taken back in (assuming due process is followed and the majority voted to return) Bloody hell if davey got in I'd move to Europe Bless him you have to be patient with him Even after four years he can't grasp the UK as a fully independent nation
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 28, 2020 15:52:58 GMT
Don't worry I get what's coming. I'm not sure you do, but there you go! I tend to agree with MrCoke for his assessment that it'll fuck up the economy for decades.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 28, 2020 17:05:43 GMT
Don't worry I get what's coming. I'm not sure you do, but there you go! I tend to agree with MrCoke for his assessment that it'll fuck up the economy for decades. I think you are "putting words in my mouth" there. What I have said is that I fully expect a downturn and period of adjustment in our economy on leaving the EU. Europeans are going to review what they buy from us and are going to service their economies themselves. But I see this as a transition period. The UK will also start to be more self sufficient. We will be more free to trade in the larger world market, which will grow a lot faster than the EU. Most of our trade (pre-pandemic) is with the RoW and growing faster than with the EU. Of course the pandemic changes the whole world scene and who knows how long the recovery will be and how society will change. There are the doom and gloom merchants who forcast an extended world recession, but I am more optimistic and see the world getting back on track as soon as there is a vaccine generally available and the fear many have is removed. The USA recovered quickly after WWII, and China is already showing signs of getting back to normal. I expect the USA and China will pull the world out of recession and with us now outside of the EU we will be better placed. I am unable to put a timescale on that though. The EU I expect will continue to be obsessed with increased legislation, increased subsidies of inefficiency, more protection against world trade with third world countries, and eventually there will be other countries wanting to break the stranglehold of Brussels. We meanwhile can push on with our own trade deals and other liberation like the proposed freedom of movement with Australia. Yes it will take time and maybe decades to see the full benefits, but I'm confident in 5 to 10 years we wil wonder why we did not break away from the EU sooner.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Aug 28, 2020 17:46:22 GMT
The same, obviously, but always good to ask. If Davey got elected ( ) is there a red line you wouldn't cross in being taken back in (assuming due process is followed and the majority voted to return) Don't worry I get what's coming. I'm not sure you do, but there you go! I tend to agree with MrCoke for his assessment that it'll fuck up the economy for decades. I'll ask again then in case you missed it.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 28, 2020 18:12:39 GMT
I've no idea. Suggest some.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 28, 2020 18:14:00 GMT
Don't worry I get what's coming. I'm not sure you do, but there you go! I tend to agree with MrCoke for his assessment that it'll fuck up the economy for decades. I think you are "putting words in my mouth" there. What I have said is that I fully expect a downturn and period of adjustment in our economy on leaving the EU. Europeans are going to review what they buy from us and are going to service their economies themselves. But I see this as a transition period. The UK will also start to be more self sufficient. We will be more free to trade in the larger world market, which will grow a lot faster than the EU. Most of our trade (pre-pandemic) is with the RoW and growing faster than with the EU. Of course the pandemic changes the whole world scene and who knows how long the recovery will be and how society will change. There are the doom and gloom merchants who forcast an extended world recession, but I am more optimistic and see the world getting back on track as soon as there is a vaccine generally available and the fear many have is removed. The USA recovered quickly after WWII, and China is already showing signs of getting back to normal. I expect the USA and China will pull the world out of recession and with us now outside of the EU we will be better placed. I am unable to put a timescale on that though. The EU I expect will continue to be obsessed with increased legislation, increased subsidies of inefficiency, more protection against world trade with third world countries, and eventually there will be other countries wanting to break the stranglehold of Brussels. We meanwhile can push on with our own trade deals and other liberation like the proposed freedom of movement with Australia. Yes it will take time and maybe decades to see the full benefits, but I'm confident in 5 to 10 years we wil wonder why we did not break away from the EU sooner. I seem to recall you saying it'd take decades before the UK reaped the benefits of leaving the EU. I am not starry-eyed about our future outside the EU. We can expect a rough ride to start with as we adjust. As I've posted before, I fully expect it to take decades for the full benefits to work through as the world economy evolves. Not really putting words into your mouth at all. You've just chosen to express the same outcome in a way that appeals more to a Brexiteer's wishful thinking.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 28, 2020 19:07:57 GMT
I think you are "putting words in my mouth" there. What I have said is that I fully expect a downturn and period of adjustment in our economy on leaving the EU. Europeans are going to review what they buy from us and are going to service their economies themselves. But I see this as a transition period. The UK will also start to be more self sufficient. We will be more free to trade in the larger world market, which will grow a lot faster than the EU. Most of our trade (pre-pandemic) is with the RoW and growing faster than with the EU. Of course the pandemic changes the whole world scene and who knows how long the recovery will be and how society will change. There are the doom and gloom merchants who forcast an extended world recession, but I am more optimistic and see the world getting back on track as soon as there is a vaccine generally available and the fear many have is removed. The USA recovered quickly after WWII, and China is already showing signs of getting back to normal. I expect the USA and China will pull the world out of recession and with us now outside of the EU we will be better placed. I am unable to put a timescale on that though. The EU I expect will continue to be obsessed with increased legislation, increased subsidies of inefficiency, more protection against world trade with third world countries, and eventually there will be other countries wanting to break the stranglehold of Brussels. We meanwhile can push on with our own trade deals and other liberation like the proposed freedom of movement with Australia. Yes it will take time and maybe decades to see the full benefits, but I'm confident in 5 to 10 years we wil wonder why we did not break away from the EU sooner. I seem to recall you saying it'd take decades before the UK reaped the benefits of leaving the EU. I am not starry-eyed about our future outside the EU. We can expect a rough ride to start with as we adjust. As I've posted before, I fully expect it to take decades for the full benefits to work through as the world economy evolves. Not really putting words into your mouth at all. You've just chosen to express the same outcome in a way that appeals more to a Brexiteer's wishful thinking. I repeat "decades for the full benefits to work through". Since joining the EEC 40 years ago we have seen industry gradually "move" towards the Channel Tunnel as old industry declined and new industry grow in the South East and along M4 corridor. I expect to see Europe to be less important and as exports grow to the RoW industry will grow around the country, over the next generation.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Aug 28, 2020 19:08:36 GMT
I've no idea. Suggest some. If this is for me: Euro ECB by default from adopting the Euro Supplying the European army with personnel. hardware, funding Schengen full FOM A few to start with.
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Post by lordb on Aug 28, 2020 21:49:15 GMT
I seem to recall you saying it'd take decades before the UK reaped the benefits of leaving the EU. Not really putting words into your mouth at all. You've just chosen to express the same outcome in a way that appeals more to a Brexiteer's wishful thinking. I repeat "decades for the full benefits to work through". Since joining the EEC 40 years ago we have seen industry gradually "move" towards the Channel Tunnel as old industry declined and new industry grow in the South East and along M4 corridor. I expect to see Europe to be less important and as exports grow to the RoW industry will grow around the country, over the next generation. I'd expect UK economy to diminish further
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Post by numpty40 on Aug 28, 2020 22:08:57 GMT
I repeat "decades for the full benefits to work through". Since joining the EEC 40 years ago we have seen industry gradually "move" towards the Channel Tunnel as old industry declined and new industry grow in the South East and along M4 corridor. I expect to see Europe to be less important and as exports grow to the RoW industry will grow around the country, over the next generation. I'd expect UK economy to diminish further Why would you 'expect' that?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 29, 2020 10:07:16 GMT
I seem to recall you saying it'd take decades before the UK reaped the benefits of leaving the EU. Not really putting words into your mouth at all. You've just chosen to express the same outcome in a way that appeals more to a Brexiteer's wishful thinking. I repeat "decades for the full benefits to work through". Since joining the EEC 40 years ago we have seen industry gradually "move" towards the Channel Tunnel as old industry declined and new industry grow in the South East and along M4 corridor. I expect to see Europe to be less important and as exports grow to the RoW industry will grow around the country, over the next generation. Yeah, I think we all know it'll be crap for some time and then, if we're lucky, we might get back economically to where we would have been had we not left. But at least we'll have our sovereignty.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Aug 29, 2020 11:44:34 GMT
I repeat "decades for the full benefits to work through". Since joining the EEC 40 years ago we have seen industry gradually "move" towards the Channel Tunnel as old industry declined and new industry grow in the South East and along M4 corridor. I expect to see Europe to be less important and as exports grow to the RoW industry will grow around the country, over the next generation. Yeah, I think we all know it'll be crap for some time and then, if we're lucky, we might get back economically to where we would have been had we not left. But at least we'll have our sovereignty. Surely, industry moved nowhere? Old industry died off and new different industry sprang up? You don’t see many steel works, textile mills on the M4 corridor! As for the argument getting back to where we before the referendum? GDP was growing at 2.5% a year, since then that’s dipped to 1.5 % a year. If we have 20 years of that growth rate it would take just under 20 years of 3.5% growth rate to catch up! We’ve not had growth like that since the industrial revolution! And we were out of the EU/EEC for nearly all of that time and trading all around the world too! One of the greatest myths of the Brexiters is that RoW is growing faster(and our exporters will have more opportunities)? Yes, because that’s a statistical phenomenon of starting from a low base! It’s got nothing to do with economics? Most of these arguments are wishful thinking dressed up as definite outcomes? My wishful thinking is that Santa will come down my chimney on Dec. 25th!
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Post by Clayton Wood on Aug 29, 2020 11:47:47 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 29, 2020 11:50:17 GMT
Yeah, I think we all know it'll be crap for some time and then, if we're lucky, we might get back economically to where we would have been had we not left. But at least we'll have our sovereignty. Surely, industry moved nowhere? Old industry died off and new different industry sprang up? You don’t see many steel works, textile mills on the M4 corridor! As for the argument getting back to where we before the referendum? GDP was growing at 2.5% a year, since then that’s dipped to 1.5 % a year. If we have 20 years of that growth rate it would take just under 20 years of 3.5% growth rate to catch up! We’ve not had growth like that since the industrial revolution! And we were out of the EU/EEC for nearly all of that time and trading all around the world too! One of the greatest myths of the Brexiters is that RoW is growing faster(and our exporters will have more opportunities)? Yes, because that’s a statistical phenomenon of starting from a low base! It’s got nothing to do with economics? Most of these arguments are wishful thinking dressed up as definite outcomes? My wishful thinking is that Santa will come down my chimney on Dec. 25th! But for santa to turn up you have to have been good?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 29, 2020 11:51:53 GMT
Yeah, I think we all know it'll be crap for some time and then, if we're lucky, we might get back economically to where we would have been had we not left. But at least we'll have our sovereignty. Surely, industry moved nowhere? Old industry died off and new different industry sprang up? You don’t see many steel works, textile mills on the M4 corridor! As for the argument getting back to where we before the referendum? GDP was growing at 2.5% a year, since then that’s dipped to 1.5 % a year. If we have 20 years of that growth rate it would take just under 20 years of 3.5% growth rate to catch up! We’ve not had growth like that since the industrial revolution! And we were out of the EU/EEC for nearly all of that time and trading all around the world too! One of the greatest myths of the Brexiters is that RoW is growing faster(and our exporters will have more opportunities)? Yes, because that’s a statistical phenomenon of starting from a low base! It’s got nothing to do with economics? Most of these arguments are wishful thinking dressed up as definite outcomes? My wishful thinking is that Santa will come down my chimney on Dec. 25th! Of course, but the whole economic argument is that the EU has, somehow, acted as a handbrake on our economy, when the opposite is the case, especially the single market, which one M Thatcher was especially keen on as she saw the benefits for Europe as a whole and the UK in particular. I still think they'll cobble some deal together to avoid WTO rules but we'll see in due course. From a purely experimental point of view it'd be more interesting to see what happens in the event of a no deal scenario. Then we'll really see whether the economic arguments stack up!
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 29, 2020 11:54:34 GMT
I've no idea. Suggest some. If this is for me: Euro ECB by default from adopting the Euro Supplying the European army with personnel. hardware, funding Schengen full FOM A few to start with. Dunno. I'd have to look into the potential impacts and benefits of each. Sorry I didn't give you a trite yes or no! Others might include our proposed contributions, the political purpose of the EU at the point of re-entry which may have changed, the budget spending areas etc etc.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Aug 29, 2020 11:55:58 GMT
If this is for me: Euro ECB by default from adopting the Euro Supplying the European army with personnel. hardware, funding Schengen full FOM A few to start with. Dunno. I'd have to look into the potential impacts and benefits of each. Sorry I didn't give you a trite yes or no! So you don't know what'd you'd be voting for?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 29, 2020 11:57:44 GMT
Dunno. I'd have to look into the potential impacts and benefits of each. Sorry I didn't give you a trite yes or no! So you don't know what'd you'd be voting for? I've edited my reply. Are you saying you have a crystal ball and can provide the exact scenario for re-entry in 5, 10, 20, 30 years' time?! Do you know what you'd be voting for in the absence of that! Impressive stuff
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Post by Clayton Wood on Aug 29, 2020 12:05:15 GMT
So you don't know what'd you'd be voting for? I've edited my reply. Are you saying you have a crystal ball and can provide the exact scenario for re-entry in 5, 10, 20, 30 years' time?! Do you know what you'd be voting for in the absence of that! Impressive stuff No I use the same crystal ball you look through to see the post Brexit Armageddon. Except I turn it around and look through the other side.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Aug 29, 2020 16:18:51 GMT
Surely, industry moved nowhere? Old industry died off and new different industry sprang up? You don’t see many steel works, textile mills on the M4 corridor! As for the argument getting back to where we before the referendum? GDP was growing at 2.5% a year, since then that’s dipped to 1.5 % a year. If we have 20 years of that growth rate it would take just under 20 years of 3.5% growth rate to catch up! We’ve not had growth like that since the industrial revolution! And we were out of the EU/EEC for nearly all of that time and trading all around the world too! One of the greatest myths of the Brexiters is that RoW is growing faster(and our exporters will have more opportunities)? Yes, because that’s a statistical phenomenon of starting from a low base! It’s got nothing to do with economics? Most of these arguments are wishful thinking dressed up as definite outcomes? My wishful thinking is that Santa will come down my chimney on Dec. 25th! But for santa to turn up you have to have been good? I am ‘waga’ and I eat all my greens too!😇
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 29, 2020 17:21:29 GMT
Yeah, I think we all know it'll be crap for some time and then, if we're lucky, we might get back economically to where we would have been had we not left. But at least we'll have our sovereignty. Surely, industry moved nowhere? Old industry died off and new different industry sprang up? You don’t see many steel works, textile mills on the M4 corridor! As for the argument getting back to where we before the referendum? GDP was growing at 2.5% a year, since then that’s dipped to 1.5 % a year. If we have 20 years of that growth rate it would take just under 20 years of 3.5% growth rate to catch up! We’ve not had growth like that since the industrial revolution! And we were out of the EU/EEC for nearly all of that time and trading all around the world too! One of the greatest myths of the Brexiters is that RoW is growing faster(and our exporters will have more opportunities)? Yes, because that’s a statistical phenomenon of starting from a low base! It’s got nothing to do with economics? Most of these arguments are wishful thinking dressed up as definite outcomes? My wishful thinking is that Santa will come down my chimney on Dec. 25th! EU parliament answer: www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2015-014997-ASW_EN.html?redirect "90% world growth ....outside EU" The world's largest economies are not "starting from a low base"! That's 1 USA, 2 China, 3 Japan, 5 India, 9 Brazil, 10 Canada, 11. Russia, 12 South Korea, 14 Australia, 15 Mexico, 16 Indonesia, 18 Saudi Arabia, 19 Turkey, 20 Switzerland. 15 of the top 20 economies in the world are outside the EU. Their growth rate is greater than the EU.We have a positive collective trading balance with those countries, China being the major exception. Even Germany has a big negative trading balance with China. We have a massive negative trading balance with the EU. Our growth has been one of the best in the EU because of our growth of trade with the RoW. The EU has been a brake on our economy and inhibited our trade with RoW. Old industry has declined while we have been in the EU. Steel has been decimated in the last 40 years while Netherlands, Spain, Belgium, Austria, and Sweden have actually increased their steel production. Our new industries have started up near to the Channel Tunnel and Felixstowe to be close to Europe.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 29, 2020 17:32:33 GMT
I've edited my reply. Are you saying you have a crystal ball and can provide the exact scenario for re-entry in 5, 10, 20, 30 years' time?! Do you know what you'd be voting for in the absence of that! Impressive stuff No I use the same crystal ball you look through to see the post Brexit Armageddon. Except I turn it around and look through the other side. Ah, the classic Brexiteer hyperbole - when have I ever said it'd be Armageddon? Even the Brexit voting MrCoke predicts a long period of economic impact and several decades before the full benefits are realised. I agree about the timescales. However, I think eventually the UK may eventually (not necessarily will) get back to a place it would have reached some time earlier. MrCoke thinks it'll be even better. I'm not so sure.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 29, 2020 17:33:22 GMT
Surely, industry moved nowhere? Old industry died off and new different industry sprang up? You don’t see many steel works, textile mills on the M4 corridor! As for the argument getting back to where we before the referendum? GDP was growing at 2.5% a year, since then that’s dipped to 1.5 % a year. If we have 20 years of that growth rate it would take just under 20 years of 3.5% growth rate to catch up! We’ve not had growth like that since the industrial revolution! And we were out of the EU/EEC for nearly all of that time and trading all around the world too! One of the greatest myths of the Brexiters is that RoW is growing faster(and our exporters will have more opportunities)? Yes, because that’s a statistical phenomenon of starting from a low base! It’s got nothing to do with economics? Most of these arguments are wishful thinking dressed up as definite outcomes? My wishful thinking is that Santa will come down my chimney on Dec. 25th! EU parliament answer: www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2015-014997-ASW_EN.html?redirect "90% world growth ....outside EU" The world's largest economies are not "starting from a low base"! That's 1 USA, 2 China, 3 Japan, 5 India, 9 Brazil, 10 Canada, 11. Russia, 12 South Korea, 14 Australia, 15 Mexico, 16 Indonesia, 18 Saudi Arabia, 19 Turkey, 20 Switzerland. 15 of the top 20 economies in the world are outside the EU. Their growth rate is greater than the EU.We have a positive collective trading balance with those countries, China being the major exception. Even Germany has a big negative trading balance with China. We have a massive negative trading balance with the EU. Our growth has been one of the best in the EU because of our growth of trade with the RoW. The EU has been a brake on our economy and inhibited our trade with RoW. Old industry has declined while we have been in the EU. Steel has been decimated in the last 40 years while Netherlands, Spain, Belgium, Austria, and Sweden have actually increased their steel production. Our new industries have started up near to the Channel Tunnel and Felixstowe to be close to Europe. Guess we'll just have to wait for those decades to pass until we see the full benefits accrue.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 29, 2020 19:02:48 GMT
EU parliament answer: www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2015-014997-ASW_EN.html?redirect "90% world growth ....outside EU" The world's largest economies are not "starting from a low base"! That's 1 USA, 2 China, 3 Japan, 5 India, 9 Brazil, 10 Canada, 11. Russia, 12 South Korea, 14 Australia, 15 Mexico, 16 Indonesia, 18 Saudi Arabia, 19 Turkey, 20 Switzerland. 15 of the top 20 economies in the world are outside the EU. Their growth rate is greater than the EU.We have a positive collective trading balance with those countries, China being the major exception. Even Germany has a big negative trading balance with China. We have a massive negative trading balance with the EU. Our growth has been one of the best in the EU because of our growth of trade with the RoW. The EU has been a brake on our economy and inhibited our trade with RoW. Old industry has declined while we have been in the EU. Steel has been decimated in the last 40 years while Netherlands, Spain, Belgium, Austria, and Sweden have actually increased their steel production. Our new industries have started up near to the Channel Tunnel and Felixstowe to be close to Europe. Guess we'll just have to wait for those decades to pass until we see the full benefits accrue. "Rome wasn't built in a day". How fast we adjust to life outside the EU will depend on successive governments and their economic policies and the talents of the British people. Outside of the EU we are free to do our own thing. For example many of the top 20 countries I mentioned in my last post are members of the CPTPP. The USA was till Trump pulled them out, but I suspect a future president could take America back in particularly if it was with the UK, which is being talked about. That lead to a huge boost in our world trade outside the EU. www.international.gc.ca/trade-commerce/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/cptpp-ptpgp/index.aspx?lang=eng
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Aug 29, 2020 21:18:24 GMT
Guess we'll just have to wait for those decades to pass until we see the full benefits accrue. "Rome wasn't built in a day". How fast we adjust to life outside the EU will depend on successive governments and their economic policies and the talents of the British people. Outside of the EU we are free to do our own thing. For example many of the top 20 countries I mentioned in my last post are members of the CPTPP. The USA was till Trump pulled them out, but I suspect a future president could take America back in particularly if it was with the UK, which is being talked about. That lead to a huge boost in our world trade outside the EU. www.international.gc.ca/trade-commerce/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/cptpp-ptpgp/index.aspx?lang=engYou’ve quoted many of the biggest economies outside the EU. Firstly, since WW2 the USA’s economy has grown as slowly as ours? Other countries have experienced serious economic crises e.g. Mexico, Indonesia, India. Australia’s growth is tied to China e.g. export of minerals. The idea you’re floating is that higher growing economies means inevitably greater British exports? This inevitability is bunkum! We’ve got one of the fewest number of large manufacturing companies in the developed world! So, who is going to be doing the exporting? A British trade official said at the time of the referendum that trade deals are fine but you have to have the goods to export to take advantage of such deals!
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 29, 2020 22:37:38 GMT
"Rome wasn't built in a day". How fast we adjust to life outside the EU will depend on successive governments and their economic policies and the talents of the British people. Outside of the EU we are free to do our own thing. For example many of the top 20 countries I mentioned in my last post are members of the CPTPP. The USA was till Trump pulled them out, but I suspect a future president could take America back in particularly if it was with the UK, which is being talked about. That lead to a huge boost in our world trade outside the EU. www.international.gc.ca/trade-commerce/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/cptpp-ptpgp/index.aspx?lang=engYou’ve quoted many of the biggest economies outside the EU. Firstly, since WW2 the USA’s economy has grown as slowly as ours? Other countries have experienced serious economic crises e.g. Mexico, Indonesia, India. Australia’s growth is tied to China e.g. export of minerals. The idea you’re floating is that higher growing economies means inevitably greater British exports? This inevitability is bunkum! We’ve got one of the fewest number of large manufacturing companies in the developed world! So, who is going to be doing the exporting? A British trade official said at the time of the referendum that trade deals are fine but you have to have the goods to export to take advantage of such deals! You seem to have a very poor opinion of your country which pre-pandemic is one of the worlds largest (6th) economies. "So who is going to be doing the exporting. Well, the UK’s top exports are mechanical machinery (14%); cars (10%); electrical machinery (8%); medicinal/pharmaceutical products (8%); crude oil (6%); aircraft (5%); other miscellaneous manufactures (5%); scientific/photographic (4%); and refined oil (3%) in 2017, the last full year's data. But this only accounts for 55% of exports, the rest is services. We are even a major exporter of food and drink. including Scotch whiskey, £4.36bn, chocolate £694m,Scottish salmon £600m, and cheese £615m in 2017. But it services where the potential to increase is greatest and is the most rapid growing sector. I live near York which, pre-pandemic is over-flowing with tourists from the far east and New York. Tourism will return and grow. Financial services have huge potential to grow in the future. The definition of middle class these days is those who have disposable income, i.e. they can cover their basic needs and still have money left to invest. The increase in the middle class of Chinese each year is more than the total middle class of Europe. There is a huge world potential market for our financial services, which Britain is a world leading in as we are in entertainment, having a massive advantage of the English language. In 2017 we saw major export growth to India with 34.4% growth in UK exports, followed by Hong Kong (16.2%), Turkey (13.1%), Japan (12.3%) and South Korea (10.5%). There are discussions taking place for free/open travel between the UK and Australia. www.gov.uk/government/news/2019-was-record-breaking-year-for-uk-exportsAs the next link shows the UK has a massive trade deficit, attributable to the massive trade deficit with the EU. facts4eu.org/news/2020_jul_eu_milks_uk,2 This is unsustainable. We have to look outwards to the rest of the world to earn our way to higher living standards. Europe is sucking us dry, particularly selling us goods that we should be making ourselves. Outside of the EU we will be free from tariffs and quotas on third world countries that the EU imposes to constrain cheap world food entering Europe and competing with inefficient Europeans farmers. Finally, there is no going back. We are out of the EU. We will never be allowed to rejoin with abatement in contributions and we would have to give up the pound sterling. Based on 2018 figures, Britain's net contribution to the EU would increase from £11 billion to £15.5 billion pa. Of course this all pales into insignificance with the financial impact of the pandemic on the world. Please stop being so negative about the UK. You would never hear a Yank, or Australian or Frenchman running down his country like you do.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Aug 29, 2020 23:19:22 GMT
You’ve quoted many of the biggest economies outside the EU. Firstly, since WW2 the USA’s economy has grown as slowly as ours? Other countries have experienced serious economic crises e.g. Mexico, Indonesia, India. Australia’s growth is tied to China e.g. export of minerals. The idea you’re floating is that higher growing economies means inevitably greater British exports? This inevitability is bunkum! We’ve got one of the fewest number of large manufacturing companies in the developed world! So, who is going to be doing the exporting? A British trade official said at the time of the referendum that trade deals are fine but you have to have the goods to export to take advantage of such deals! You seem to have a very poor opinion of your country which pre-pandemic is one of the worlds largest (6th) economies. "So who is going to be doing the exporting. Well, the UK’s top exports are mechanical machinery (14%); cars (10%); electrical machinery (8%); medicinal/pharmaceutical products (8%); crude oil (6%); aircraft (5%); other miscellaneous manufactures (5%); scientific/photographic (4%); and refined oil (3%) in 2017, the last full year's data. But this only accounts for 55% of exports, the rest is services. We are even a major exporter of food and drink. including Scotch whiskey, £4.36bn, chocolate £694m,Scottish salmon £600m, and cheese £615m in 2017. But it services where the potential to increase is greatest and is the most rapid growing sector. I live near York which, pre-pandemic is over-flowing with tourists from the far east and New York. Tourism will return and grow. Financial services have huge potential to grow in the future. The definition of middle class these days is those who have disposable income, i.e. they can cover their basic needs and still have money left to invest. The increase in the middle class of Chinese each year is more than the total middle class of Europe. There is a huge world potential market for our financial services, which Britain is a world leading in as we are in entertainment, having a massive advantage of the English language. In 2017 we saw major export growth to India with 34.4% growth in UK exports, followed by Hong Kong (16.2%), Turkey (13.1%), Japan (12.3%) and South Korea (10.5%). There are discussions taking place for free/open travel between the UK and Australia. www.gov.uk/government/news/2019-was-record-breaking-year-for-uk-exportsAs the next link shows the UK has a massive trade deficit, attributable to the massive trade deficit with the EU. facts4eu.org/news/2020_jul_eu_milks_uk,2 This is unsustainable. We have to look outwards to the rest of the world to earn our way to higher living standards. Europe is sucking us dry, particularly selling us goods that we should be making ourselves. Outside of the EU we will be free from tariffs and quotas on third world countries that the EU imposes to constrain cheap world food entering Europe and competing with inefficient Europeans farmers. Finally, there is no going back. We are out of the EU. We will never be allowed to rejoin with abatement in contributions and we would have to give up the pound sterling. Based on 2018 figures, Britain's net contribution to the EU would increase from £11 billion to £15.5 billion pa. Of course this all pales into insignificance with the financial impact of the pandemic on the world. Please stop being so negative about the UK. You would never hear a Yank, or Australian or Frenchman running down his country like you do. Nobody is running down his country! Economic history is one of my hobbies. Looking at your figures car exports include Japanese companies ! Aircraft are largely military. Does crude oil count as a manufacture? I thought it came under mining? It’s true pharmaceuticals are doing well but they’ve been a success story for a very long time. Manufacturing as a proportion of British GDP is one of the lowest in the developed world at, I believe, 10% of GDP. It is services that are our greatest success story. No-one is suggesting re-joining the E.U. but that doesn’t mean we can’t evaluate our success/failure of leaving? It’s fine to argue we’ll have cheaper imports? But you can’t argue for greater output if our farmers and manufacturers are faced with an influx of yet cheaper imports? Nobody has told us how many British farmers will go bankrupt? The CBI are constantly warning of a no-deal? Are they wrong having consulted all their members? Who are we to believe? You or the people consulting their members all the time?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 30, 2020 7:53:29 GMT
Yes, Nick, choose your targets more carefully.
It's absolutely fine to run down other countries for being corrupt and to be critical of EU coronavirus financial aid packages because some countries will just "fritter it all away".
But you mustn't point out anything remotely critical about the Brexiteers glorious new dawn as that is running our own country down.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 30, 2020 8:59:59 GMT
You seem to have a very poor opinion of your country which pre-pandemic is one of the worlds largest (6th) economies. "So who is going to be doing the exporting. Well, the UK’s top exports are mechanical machinery (14%); cars (10%); electrical machinery (8%); medicinal/pharmaceutical products (8%); crude oil (6%); aircraft (5%); other miscellaneous manufactures (5%); scientific/photographic (4%); and refined oil (3%) in 2017, the last full year's data. But this only accounts for 55% of exports, the rest is services. We are even a major exporter of food and drink. including Scotch whiskey, £4.36bn, chocolate £694m,Scottish salmon £600m, and cheese £615m in 2017. But it services where the potential to increase is greatest and is the most rapid growing sector. I live near York which, pre-pandemic is over-flowing with tourists from the far east and New York. Tourism will return and grow. Financial services have huge potential to grow in the future. The definition of middle class these days is those who have disposable income, i.e. they can cover their basic needs and still have money left to invest. The increase in the middle class of Chinese each year is more than the total middle class of Europe. There is a huge world potential market for our financial services, which Britain is a world leading in as we are in entertainment, having a massive advantage of the English language. In 2017 we saw major export growth to India with 34.4% growth in UK exports, followed by Hong Kong (16.2%), Turkey (13.1%), Japan (12.3%) and South Korea (10.5%). There are discussions taking place for free/open travel between the UK and Australia. www.gov.uk/government/news/2019-was-record-breaking-year-for-uk-exportsAs the next link shows the UK has a massive trade deficit, attributable to the massive trade deficit with the EU. facts4eu.org/news/2020_jul_eu_milks_uk,2 This is unsustainable. We have to look outwards to the rest of the world to earn our way to higher living standards. Europe is sucking us dry, particularly selling us goods that we should be making ourselves. Outside of the EU we will be free from tariffs and quotas on third world countries that the EU imposes to constrain cheap world food entering Europe and competing with inefficient Europeans farmers. Finally, there is no going back. We are out of the EU. We will never be allowed to rejoin with abatement in contributions and we would have to give up the pound sterling. Based on 2018 figures, Britain's net contribution to the EU would increase from £11 billion to £15.5 billion pa. Of course this all pales into insignificance with the financial impact of the pandemic on the world. Please stop being so negative about the UK. You would never hear a Yank, or Australian or Frenchman running down his country like you do. Nobody is running down his country! Economic history is one of my hobbies. Looking at your figures car exports include Japanese companies ! Aircraft are largely military. Does crude oil count as a manufacture? I thought it came under mining? It’s true pharmaceuticals are doing well but they’ve been a success story for a very long time. Manufacturing as a proportion of British GDP is one of the lowest in the developed world at, I believe, 10% of GDP. It is services that are our greatest success story. No-one is suggesting re-joining the E.U. but that doesn’t mean we can’t evaluate our success/failure of leaving? It’s fine to argue we’ll have cheaper imports? But you can’t argue for greater output if our farmers and manufacturers are faced with an influx of yet cheaper imports? Nobody has told us how many British farmers will go bankrupt? The CBI are constantly warning of a no-deal? Are they wrong having consulted all their members? Who are we to believe? You or the people consulting their members all the time? Don't worry about British farmers, most voted for Brexit, including most young and Scottish farmers. They are the backbone of the Tory Party and will be looked after. Like the CBI I am not in favour of no deal. I am in favour of a fair deal, which in view of our balance of trade with the EU should be the best deal they have done with an independant country like Japan or Canada.We should get a better deal than them, but the EU want to still control us and take the majority of fish from British waters. As May said no deal is better than a bad deal. Brussels is driving me to the view that I don't want that it is better to leave without a deal and then restart negotiations. Tough in the short term, but this is about the long term future of our country, and we are in for a tough time now anyway due to the pandemic.
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