|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 13, 2020 12:54:38 GMT
Good. They are in two " categories" They are two " countries" though and each trades with Germany , France, the UK , Italy etc But Canada has recently negotiated a trade deal and Australia would like to start negotiating one? We do have some Brexiters who want only WTO trade? That would put us into an unique position of not having a trade deal and not wanting one! Of course trade deals relate to trade only and not services! As a major service goods exporter it’s not a great help? And we are trying to negotiate one. "Negotiate" is the important word. There is one big problem.....the EU is interested in " political and economic union " across Europe ...it's explicitly in the traty as the whole purpose of the EU. A trade deal ( as David Davis had said) should be relatively easy....we are trading now....but the EU are reluctant to give up political control. Obviously we are geographically nearer / part of Europe than Australia and Canada...this causes them a big problem and prevents them from negotiating in good faith.
|
|
|
Post by maxplonk on Jun 13, 2020 13:09:34 GMT
Even if we leave with "NO deal" ( wto really) we can still negotiate " deals", " arrangements", across different sectors....it might depend upon how much the EU want to respect the UK as an independent nation eg in the way they treat Canada or Australia. If Remainers had accepted democracy from the outset we could have been much further along the road and been able to give our energies in another direction. Anyway let's see what transpires. Sorry for butting in, but I haven't followed this thread for quite a while. Could you remind how the Remainers have hindered progress by not accepting democracy from the outset?
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 13, 2020 13:16:48 GMT
Sorry for butting in, but I haven't followed this thread for quite a while. Could you remind how the Remainers have hindered progress by not accepting democracy from the outset? Not really Max, it's been done before. I think that there has been a little bit of resistance to Brexit since June 2016, perhaps you've missed the debate...start at page 47
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 13, 2020 13:25:52 GMT
Good. They are in two " categories" They are two " countries" though and each trades with Germany , France, the UK , Italy etc But Canada has recently negotiated a trade deal and Australia would like to start negotiating one? We do have some Brexiters who want only WTO trade? That would put us into an unique position of not having a trade deal and not wanting one! Of course trade deals relate to trade only and not services! As a major service goods exporter it’s not a great help? I honestly think you're wasting your time, max, nicholas...
|
|
|
Post by maxplonk on Jun 13, 2020 14:06:37 GMT
Not really Max, it's been done before. I think that there has been a little bit of resistance to Brexit since June 2016, perhaps you've missed the debate...start at page 47 The question was not whether resistance existed, rather how it had hindered progress. Answer the question.
|
|
|
Post by nicholasjalcock on Jun 13, 2020 15:58:09 GMT
The question was not whether resistance existed, rather how it had hindered progress. Answer the question. It always amuses me when Remainers are accused of having hindered the passage of Brexit when the Tory ERG consistently voted against their own government’s Bill? But can you blame them when nearly the entire Remain wing of the Tory Party has been forced out of parliament? And their places have been taken by ERGers?
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 13, 2020 16:08:19 GMT
The question was not whether resistance existed, rather how it had hindered progress. Answer the question. Hi Max lad, It hindered progress because a lot of time was wasted trying to thwart Brexit. You might jot like the answer but it is my answer. As you know this has been discussed quite a bit. Now since you are so interested in my view , I tell you what.....have a listen to the Claire Fox interview . On this issue my views are the same as hers, and she answers your question better than me. No real point in engaging with me on the issue, you are better off thinking about what someone who has been involved has got to say.....unless you just want to win some personal battle on the EE board, I don't think that she posts on here yet. And I make no apologies for posting it again, the Left would learn quite a lot from listening to her. She uses such phrases as " incandescent " about the way some of her working class family felt about their treatment. " emotional attachment " referring to the illogical attachment to the EU, "a crisis in left wing politics", " embracing identity politics" , ordinary tolerant people not particularly like being called racist. And she's a Trotskyist Brexiteer, in real life. You'd do well to try to get your head around that.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 13, 2020 16:09:15 GMT
But Canada has recently negotiated a trade deal and Australia would like to start negotiating one? We do have some Brexiters who want only WTO trade? That would put us into an unique position of not having a trade deal and not wanting one! Of course trade deals relate to trade only and not services! As a major service goods exporter it’s not a great help? I honestly think you're wasting your time, max, nicholas... So do I
|
|
|
Post by nicholasjalcock on Jun 13, 2020 16:19:55 GMT
Hi Max lad, It hindered progress because a lot of time was wasted trying to thwart Brexit. You might jot like the answer but it is my answer. As you know this has been discussed quite a bit. Now since you are so interested in my view , I tell you what.....have a listen to the Claire Fox interview . On this issue my views are the same as hers, and she answers your question better than me. No real point in engaging with me on the issue, you are better off thinking about what someone who has been involved has got to say.....unless you just want to win some personal battle on the EE board, I don't think that she posts on here yet. And I make no apologies for posting it again, the Left would learn quite a lot from listening to her. She uses such phrases as " incandescent " about the way some of her working class family felt about their treatment. " emotional attachment " referring to the illogical attachment to the EU, "a crisis in left wing politics", " embracing identity politics" , ordinary tolerant people not particularly like being called racist. And she's a Trotskyist Brexiteer, in real life. You'd do well to try to get your head around that. I watched M/s Fox on ‘Sky’s’ press review! Yes, the former Trotskyist turned Farageist?! Brendan O’Neill is another who made the ‘transition’ . What an utterly dreadful pair of charlatans! From permanent socialist revolution to permanent Brexit! They say ‘transitioning’ is a painful experience but nowhere near as painful as listening to them on ‘Sky’?!😜
|
|
|
Post by maxplonk on Jun 13, 2020 16:35:44 GMT
Hi Max lad, It hindered progress because a lot of time was wasted trying to thwart Brexit. You might jot like the answer but it is my answer. As you know this has been discussed quite a bit. Now since you are so interested in my view , I tell you what.....have a listen to the Claire Fox interview . On this issue my views are the same as hers, and she answers your question better than me. No real point in engaging with me on the issue, you are better off thinking about what someone who has been involved has got to say.....unless you just want to win some personal battle on the EE board, I don't think that she posts on here yet. And I make no apologies for posting it again, the Left would learn quite a lot from listening to her. She uses such phrases as " incandescent " about the way some of her working class family felt about their treatment. " emotional attachment " referring to the illogical attachment to the EU, "a crisis in left wing politics", " embracing identity politics" , ordinary tolerant people not particularly like being called racist. And she's a Trotskyist Brexiteer, in real life. You'd do well to try to get your head around that. I don't like your answer because it is not an answer. Your response to my question has been to re-state your initial argument that remainers have wasted time by trying to delay Brexit - no attempt to state specifically how they have attempted to do that. Then you assume that I'm interested in your view - don't flatter yourself, laddie - I merely wanted you to support your statement with (preferably factual) examples, which you have failed to do. What you've written after that is irrelevant. It may well be that as Brexit happens (and causes discomfort for some) that the blame game gets underway and you are getting in there early (blame being a very useful political currency). Or maybe you are just trying to control the narrative (for whatever reason). I don't know and don't really care. You haven't answered my question but you have reminded me why I stopped following this thread.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 13, 2020 16:41:49 GMT
I don't like your answer because it is not an answer. Your response to my question has been to re-state your initial argument that remainers have wasted time by trying to delay Brexit - no attempt to state specifically how they have attempted to do that. Then you assume that I'm interested in your view - don't flatter yourself, laddie - I merely wanted you to support your statement with (preferably factual) examples, which you have failed to do. What you've written after that is irrelevant. It may well be that as Brexit happens (and causes discomfort for some) that the blame game gets underway and you are getting in there early (blame being a very useful political currency). Or maybe you are just trying to control the narrative (for whatever reason). I don't know and don't really care. You haven't answered my question but you have reminded me why I stopped following this thread. I apologise that you've stopped following this thread because I haven't answered your question. I tried my best. Perhaps you are best taking Red's point on board about wasting your time.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 13, 2020 16:45:12 GMT
I watched M/s Fox on ‘Sky’s’ press review! Yes, the former Trotskyist turned Farageist?! Brendan O’Neill is another who made the ‘transition’ . What an utterly dreadful pair of charlatans! From permanent socialist revolution to permanent Brexit! They say ‘transitioning’ is a painful experience but nowhere near as painful as listening to them on ‘Sky’?!😜 Hi Nick, I know it is difficult to get your head round someone on the left wanting to leave the EU. It doesn't really fit the agenda And if there is such a person it is best to try to insult them. Perhaps that's why the traditional working class seem to have deserted Labour ( and the Corbyn version) on this issue. The daft thing is many on the left are still in denial.
|
|
|
Post by nicholasjalcock on Jun 13, 2020 17:26:04 GMT
Hi Nick, I know it is difficult to get your head round someone on the left wanting to leave the EU. It doesn't really fit the agenda And if there is such a person it is best to try to insult them. Perhaps that's why the traditional working class seem to have deserted Labour ( and the Corbyn version) on this issue. The daft thing is many on the left are still in denial. I’m perfectly at liberty to dislike people who switch from the far left to the far right? It has nothing to do with Brexit and something to do with ‘a leopard never changes its spots’? Or did the leopard have no spots to begin with? All I can say if the working class think a ‘libertarian right’ future is in it’s interest fine? Look on the bright side ‘BJR’ if we ever have a referendum on rejoining the EU there’s a 50-50 chance Claire and Brendan will be on my side? Lol!
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 13, 2020 17:36:09 GMT
I’m perfectly at liberty to dislike people who switch from the far left to the far right? It has nothing to do with Brexit and something to do with ‘a leopard never changes its spots’? Or did the leopard have no spots to begin with? All I can say if the working class think a ‘libertarian right’ future is in it’s interest fine? Look on the bright side ‘BJR’ if we ever have a referendum on rejoining the EU there’s a 50-50 chance Claire and Brendan will be on my side? Lol! There's too much labelling and stereotyping of people going on. "Far" right and " Far" left are ridiculous labels in your examples. It is this that closes down debate and stops people listening to the arguments. Most people are reasonable, try to be tolerant and are probably " in the middle"/ non aligned..........in my opinion of course. Claire Fox has not changed her spots whatsoever, she has always been a Eurosceptic... , to leave the EU is a non party issue, if anything it is a position which the left ought to feel passionate about....when democracy goes, those at the bottom suffer most, ask Dennis Skinner or Kate Hoey.......but the current left aren't capable of seeing it.....and are doomed to be moaners, a sideshow.
|
|
|
Post by maxplonk on Jun 13, 2020 17:50:34 GMT
I apologise that you've stopped following this thread because I haven't answered your question. I tried my best. Perhaps you are best taking Red's point on board about wasting your time. Perhaps you are right. I shall leave you to your delusions.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 13, 2020 17:52:19 GMT
Perhaps you are right. I shall leave you to your delusions. Red's suggestion, thank him, not me.
|
|
|
Post by nicholasjalcock on Jun 13, 2020 18:16:07 GMT
There's too much labelling and stereotyping of people going on. "Far" right and " Far" left are ridiculous labels in your examples. It is this that closes down debate and stops people listening to the arguments. Most people are reasonable, try to be tolerant and are probably " in the middle"/ non aligned..........in my opinion of course. Claire Fox has not changed her spots whatsoever, she has always been a Eurosceptic... , to leave the EU is a non party issue, if anything it is a position which the left ought to feel passionate about....when democracy goes, those at the bottom suffer most, ask Dennis Skinner or Kate Hoey.......but the current left aren't capable of seeing it.....and are doomed to be moaners, a sideshow. A few years ago I was curious about Claire and Brendan. As you know both worked for ‘Marxism Today’. If that august publication hadn’t folded they might still be working for it today? I was curious about the company Brendan works for now? It is funded from America by one of the nastiest right-wingers in that country? I’m not overly impressed by their academic backgrounds too? The pair are a pretty inconsequential duo? But when you’re The Brexit Party I can understand why she made the candidate’s list? Let’s be fair, Ann Widdecombe is the closest you came to a heavyweight candidate and I’m not referring to calibre?😜
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 13, 2020 18:24:07 GMT
A few years ago I was curious about Claire and Brendan. As you know both worked for ‘Marxism Today’. If that august publication hadn’t folded they might still be working for it today? I was curious about the company Brendan works for now? It is funded from America by one of the nastiest right-wingers in that country? I’m not overly impressed by their academic backgrounds too? The pair are a pretty inconsequential duo? But when you’re The Brexit Party I can understand why she made the candidate’s list? Let’s be fair, Ann Widdecombe is the closest you came to a heavyweight candidate and I’m not referring to calibre?😜 A bit personal that about Anne. I've no idea about Brendan. Claire has been consistent and in my opinion she is a genuine person....surely everyone you don't agre with isn't nasty, inconsequential or lacking. Denis Skinner, Kate Hoey and the late great Tony Benn are/ were pretty sincere as well. You do the left no favours by continuing down this road. Caroline Flint would have made a good Labour leader. The ordinary working class have turned against Labour for this attitude. Crack on , you are doing the " right's" job for them.
|
|
|
Post by nicholasjalcock on Jun 13, 2020 18:33:21 GMT
A bit personal that about Anne. I've no idea about Brendan. Claire has been consistent and in my opinion she is a genuine person....surely everyone you don't agre with isn't nasty, inconsequential or lacking. Denis Skinner, Kate Hoey and the late great Tony Benn are/ were pretty sincere as well. You do the left no favours by continuing down this road. Caroline Flint would have made a good Labour leader. The ordinary working class have turned against Labour for this attitude. Crack on , you are doing the " right's" job for them. Good old Ann! Missed the limelight after ‘Strictly’? Wanted one last ‘Hurrah’ ! Go out in a blaze of glory! And I could just be guessing here but did that 6 months MEP’s salary, expenses and pension come in handy too? Please tell me ‘BJR’ if I’m being a tad unkind?😀
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 13, 2020 18:57:28 GMT
Good old Ann! Missed the limelight after ‘Strictly’? Wanted one last ‘Hurrah’ ! Go out in a blaze of glory! And I could just be guessing here but did that 6 months MEP’s salary, expenses and pension come in handy too? Please tell me ‘BJR’ if I’m being a tad unkind?😀 To her credit, she's " gone for it", a very successful life, compared to most of us. I didn't watch strictly myself. What do you think of Caroline Flint's opinions in the video clip.....probably yet another one to be ignored because she points to some home truths eh?
|
|
|
Post by followyoudown on Jun 13, 2020 18:59:20 GMT
A bit personal that about Anne. I've no idea about Brendan. Claire has been consistent and in my opinion she is a genuine person....surely everyone you don't agre with isn't nasty, inconsequential or lacking. Denis Skinner, Kate Hoey and the late great Tony Benn are/ were pretty sincere as well. You do the left no favours by continuing down this road. Caroline Flint would have made a good Labour leader. The ordinary working class have turned against Labour for this attitude. Crack on , you are doing the " right's" job for them. Was it Caroline Flint who Emily Thornberry said too I'm glad my voters aren't as thick as yours or something like that, she then huffed and puffed about suing before dropping it quietly of course.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 13, 2020 19:07:33 GMT
Was it Caroline Flint who Emily Thornberry said too I'm glad my voters aren't as thick as yours or something like that, she then huffed and puffed about suing before dropping it quietly of course. It was, it is in the video that I posted in which Caroline Flint said it. Labour still need a handbook at themselves , rather than just criticising the Tories, if they think that someone like Thornberry can genuinely connect with their ordinary traditional voters , never mind the middle ground that they need to win. Ever likely some prefer non democratic avenues.
|
|
|
Post by followyoudown on Jun 13, 2020 19:40:34 GMT
It was, it is in the video that I posted in which Caroline Flint said it. Labour still need a handbook at themselves , rather than just criticising the Tories, if they think that someone like Thornberry can genuinely connect with their ordinary traditional voters , never mind the middle ground that they need to win. Ever likely some prefer non democratic avenues. I was going to watch it but saw it was 10 minutes long, still Labour are onto a winner now with this identity politics telling people they need to apologise for events from 200 years ago will go down a storm.....
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 13, 2020 19:45:02 GMT
I was going to watch it but saw it was 10 minutes long, still Labour are onto a winner now with this identity politics telling people they need to apologise for events from 200 years ago will go down a storm..... It's worth watching. Caroline is very good. She is Honest.
|
|
|
Post by followyoudown on Jun 13, 2020 19:52:11 GMT
It's worth watching. Caroline is very good. She is Honest. I will give it a go when I have more time although probably a chance I saw it at the time as I was working from home before it became trendy and used to have skynews on as background most of the day now I only put it on to check the time.....
|
|
|
Post by The Drunken Communist on Jun 13, 2020 20:23:08 GMT
Will you lot learn how use the fucking quote function! EDIT : Bollocks, new page! Now anyone reading from just here wont know what's going on!
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 13, 2020 20:42:13 GMT
Will you lot learn how use the fucking quote function! EDIT : Bollocks, new page! Now anyone reading from just here wont know what's going on! I'm still learning DC, Fairly new to the board. What's it like on here?
|
|
|
Post by Clayton Wood on Jun 14, 2020 8:25:45 GMT
Will you lot learn how use the fucking quote function! EDIT : Bollocks, new page! Now anyone reading from just here wont know what's going on! I'm still learning DC, Fairly new to the board. What's it like on here? Shit if you don't use the quote function properly.
|
|
|
Post by longdistancekiddie on Jun 14, 2020 23:28:45 GMT
A lot of the Schengan area free movement borders reopen in the morning,
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2020 16:10:40 GMT
|
|