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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 8, 2020 13:47:55 GMT
The majority voted for parties backing a second referendum. They should have stuck with a second referendum policy as that is what most people in the country seems to have wanted. Unfortunately we have a very unrepresentative system so it is almost impossible for any party to challenge the big 2. The lib dems would be a bigger player if we had a democratic system.
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 8, 2020 13:50:29 GMT
There’s no doubt leaving the EU will be bad for our economy. Signing trade deals with far more powerful nations (US, China, EU) will also reduce our sovereignty after Brexit. Leavers seem to think we can dictate terms and don’t seem to understand the multitude of issues over and above trade that are part of all major trade deals. No nation is sovereign if they wish to interact with other nations. I don't agree. We will be better off outside the EU in the long run, if indeed there is a long run for the EU now we are out. No doubt there will be a rough adjustment period to start with and people like you will harp on that we never should have left, but in the long term it will be to our benefit that we will be free of the restraints and taxes. Our trade with the EEC grew rapidly when we joined the common market, but in recent years the trend has been the opposite direction. Now we will start to grow our trade far more rapidly with the rest of the world. But most importantly we will have our own legislation, regulated by our own courts. Very soon most of the world's top ten economies will be outside the EU. We will grow our economy faster. We will become more self sufficient. Ripping up trade deals with 70+ countries is not a good move for our economy.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 8, 2020 13:52:42 GMT
The majority voted for parties backing a second referendum. They should have stuck with a second referendum policy as that is what most people in the country seems to have wanted. Unfortunately we have a very unrepresentative system so it is almost impossible for any party to challenge the big 2. The lib dems would be a bigger player if we had a democratic system. The lib dems would be a bigger player if we had a democratic system.
The Libdems would be a bigger player if they had policies that more of the electorate could relate to. End of. Oh, and a leader that could hold on to her own seat
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 8, 2020 13:58:18 GMT
The majority voted for parties backing a second referendum. They should have stuck with a second referendum policy as that is what most people in the country seems to have wanted. Unfortunately we have a very unrepresentative system so it is almost impossible for any party to challenge the big 2. The lib dems would be a bigger player if we had a democratic system. The lib dems would be a bigger player if we had a democratic system.
The Libdems would be a bigger player if they had policies that more of the electorate could relate to. End of. Oh, and a leader that could hold on to her own seat Why is it they often get 20% odd of the vote in all but the general election? Our general election means Cameron got a majority from fewer than 25% of people eligible to vote!? Please explain how that is representative and democratic. Boris Johnson has a massive majority from a minority of votes. Please explain how that is representative and democratic The lib dems should have 11.5% of MPs from the last election
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 8, 2020 14:05:16 GMT
The lib dems would be a bigger player if we had a democratic system.
The Libdems would be a bigger player if they had policies that more of the electorate could relate to. End of. Oh, and a leader that could hold on to her own seat Why is it they often get 20% odd of the vote in all but the general election? Our general election means Cameron got a majority from fewer than 25% of people eligible to vote!? Please explain how that is representative and democratic. Boris Johnson has a massive majority from a minority of votes. Please explain how that is representative and democratic The lib dems should have 11.5% of MPs from the last election Have a referendum and put it to the people that the current system is undemocratic and let them decided, it is to represent them after all. Oh you did, 67.9% of those that voted did not want AV. But they didn't know what they voted for. Lib Dems: always the system never the policies.
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Post by georgieboy52 on Mar 8, 2020 14:27:28 GMT
Why is it they often get 20% odd of the vote in all but the general election? Our general election means Cameron got a majority from fewer than 25% of people eligible to vote!? Please explain how that is representative and democratic. Boris Johnson has a massive majority from a minority of votes. Please explain how that is representative and democratic The lib dems should have 11.5% of MPs from the last election Have a referendum and put it to the people that the current system is undemocratic and let them decided, it is to represent them after all. Oh you did, 67.9% of those that voted did not want AV. But they didn't know what they voted for. Lib Dems: always the system never the policies. Not much interest -low turnout.
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Mar 8, 2020 17:29:48 GMT
By the way, we could have charged 0% VAT on sanitary products whilst in the EU. Our tory government for the last 10 years chose to charge 5% though. Errr what part of „EU directive meant we couldn’t charge below 5%“ did you miss?
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Post by franklin66 on Mar 8, 2020 19:09:02 GMT
By the way, we could have charged 0% VAT on sanitary products whilst in the EU. Our tory government for the last 10 years chose to charge 5% though. Errr what part of „EU directive meant we couldn’t charge below 5%“ did you miss? 😁 that's what happens when you dont read stuff.
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Post by bathstoke on Mar 8, 2020 19:36:25 GMT
I wish we had the internet in 1973 So do I. All that porn I missed out on. I’d have never seen the light of day. Probs ended up with rickets!
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 8, 2020 20:30:13 GMT
By the way, we could have charged 0% VAT on sanitary products whilst in the EU. Our tory government for the last 10 years chose to charge 5% though. So you are saying the second paragraph in my BBC link is not true? The BBC is saying that the EU required a minimumc 5% charge.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 9, 2020 14:39:40 GMT
When the issue of Brexit was debated some people put alot of store by economic forecasts, as though they were a defining scientific fact....usually used as "evidence" that we should not leave the Political union. Whilst I believe in trying to forecast/ budget within reason clearly the future cannot be predicted.....the economic , political, climatic , personal or entrepreneurial future ...with certainty....many of us said that....it may depend upon the character and endeavour of the UK and likewise the EU. The predictions didn't include the fact that a virus COULD cause a world recession.......Many factors impact upon our well being and prospects.
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Post by xchpotter on Mar 9, 2020 15:28:14 GMT
When the issue of Brexit was debated some people put alot of store by economic forecasts, as though they were a defining scientific fact....usually used as "evidence" that we should not leave the Political union. Whilst I believe in trying to forecast/ budget within reason clearly the future cannot be predicted.....the economic , political, climatic , personal or entrepreneurial future ...with certainty....many of us said that....it may depend upon the character and endeavour of the UK and likewise the EU. The predictions didn't include the fact that a virus COULD cause a world recession.......Many factors impact upon our well being and prospects. Indeed. It will be interesting to see the future debate. If we do poorly economically, Leavers will blame Coronavirus and Remainers will blame leaving the EU. Whatever the outcome, the arguments will keep on rolling for years to come.
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Post by foster on Mar 9, 2020 15:49:10 GMT
When the issue of Brexit was debated some people put alot of store by economic forecasts, as though they were a defining scientific fact....usually used as "evidence" that we should not leave the Political union. Whilst I believe in trying to forecast/ budget within reason clearly the future cannot be predicted.....the economic , political, climatic , personal or entrepreneurial future ...with certainty....many of us said that....it may depend upon the character and endeavour of the UK and likewise the EU. The predictions didn't include the fact that a virus COULD cause a world recession.......Many factors impact upon our well being and prospects. Indeed. It will be interesting to see the future debate. If we do poorly economically, Leavers will blame Coronavirus and Remainers will blame leaving the EU. Whatever the outcome, the arguments will keep on rolling for years to come. I'm sure an impact analysis could quite easily show how much effect the virus has had vs Brexit. In any case, once the trade deals are in place comparing them like for like should be easy. You can apply the same trading data, just with the different rates to see which works out better.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 9, 2020 15:54:04 GMT
Indeed. It will be interesting to see the future debate. If we do poorly economically, Leavers will blame Coronavirus and Remainers will blame leaving the EU. Whatever the outcome, the arguments will keep on rolling for years to come. I'm sure an impact analysis could quite easily show how much effect the virus has had vs Brexit. In any case, once the trade deals are in place comparing them like for like should be easy. You can apply the same trading data, just with the different rates to see which works out better. I don't think it will be that easy at all Foster, in a changing world. The relative political success of each organisation might be slightly easier to assess.
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Post by bathstoke on Mar 14, 2020 12:04:08 GMT
Hey, For all those that wanted to go back to the halcyon days of the 1970’s, well its like we never left. That suspicious look in the eye of a stranger(what you👀at!?!)Empty shelves in the supermarket. MrsBath said they have even sold out of flour. No pasta(not even spaghetti hoops) Next we’ll be on a 3 day week.
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 14, 2020 14:25:09 GMT
When the issue of Brexit was debated some people put alot of store by economic forecasts, as though they were a defining scientific fact....usually used as "evidence" that we should not leave the Political union. Whilst I believe in trying to forecast/ budget within reason clearly the future cannot be predicted.....the economic , political, climatic , personal or entrepreneurial future ...with certainty....many of us said that....it may depend upon the character and endeavour of the UK and likewise the EU. The predictions didn't include the fact that a virus COULD cause a world recession.......Many factors impact upon our well being and prospects. Indeed. It will be interesting to see the future debate. If we do poorly economically, Leavers will blame Coronavirus and Remainers will blame leaving the EU. Whatever the outcome, the arguments will keep on rolling for years to come. Count me out. I have been pro-leaving for many years say 10 to 20 having been very pro joining the EEC in the 70s. I have never disputed the fact that leaving would contract the economy in the short term. We joined for the major economic benefit of a much enlarged "home market" and did indeed grow our trade with the other EU countries. However they have been the downsides of (a) the massive negative trade balance, (b) the continuous loss of sovereignty, (thank goodness we didn't join the Euro) and (c) the net financial contribution. I have also been disgusted by the corruption, lack of auditing, uneven playing field on issues like assisting industry, safety legislation, and environmental rules compliance. To put it bluntly many EU politicians and bureaucrats are as big cheats as out own politicians. The turning point was a few years ago when most of our trade started to become more with the RoW instead of the EU due to the more rapid growth and the stagnant economies (Germany excepted) of most EU countries. I expect there to be a period of adjustment which will now be extended by a world slump due to the Coronavirus, but I expect the next generation will be much better for the country than being tied to the EU subsidising east and south Europe and ruled on all aspects including currency, defence, and foreign policy by bureaucrats in Brussels.
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Post by felonious on Mar 14, 2020 14:45:43 GMT
Indeed. It will be interesting to see the future debate. If we do poorly economically, Leavers will blame Coronavirus and Remainers will blame leaving the EU. Whatever the outcome, the arguments will keep on rolling for years to come. Count me out. I have been pro-leaving for many years say 10 to 20 having been very pro joining the EEC in the 70s. I have never disputed the fact that leaving would contract the economy in the short term. We joined for the major economic benefit of a much enlarged "home market" and did indeed grow our trade with the other EU countries. However they have been the downsides of (a) the massive negative trade balance, (b) the continuous loss of sovereignty, (thank goodness we didn't join the Euro) and (c) the net financial contribution. I have also been disgusted by the corruption, lack of auditing, uneven playing field on issues like assisting industry, safety legislation, and environmental rules compliance. To put it bluntly many EU politicians and bureaucrats are as big cheats as out own politicians. The turning point was a few years ago when most of our trade started to become more with the RoW instead of the EU due to the more rapid growth and the stagnant economies (Germany excepted) of most EU countries. I expect there to be a period of adjustment which will now be extended by a world slump due to the Coronavirus, but I expect the next generation will be much better for the country than being tied to the EU subsidising east and south Europe and ruled on all aspects including currency, defence, and foreign policy by bureaucrats in Brussels. I'd go further and say that the EU has trashed the economies of Southern Europe with it's monetary policies and the adherence to the Euro. Huge unemployment especially amongst the young with little room for manoeuvre within heavily prescribed budgets with huge penalties. I've no idea why the youth of Southern Europe is so obedient to the EU apart from decades on indoctrination like we've seen here.
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Post by bathstoke on Mar 14, 2020 15:47:03 GMT
Indeed. It will be interesting to see the future debate. If we do poorly economically, Leavers will blame Coronavirus and Remainers will blame leaving the EU. Whatever the outcome, the arguments will keep on rolling for years to come. I'm sure an impact analysis could quite easily show how much effect the virus has had vs Brexit. In any case, once the trade deals are in place comparing them like for like should be easy. You can apply the same trading data, just with the different rates to see which works out better. No, no, no. The Coronavirus is down to the Torys. Just like the World financial crisis was Labours fault. Thems the rules...
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 14, 2020 15:53:45 GMT
I'm sure an impact analysis could quite easily show how much effect the virus has had vs Brexit. In any case, once the trade deals are in place comparing them like for like should be easy. You can apply the same trading data, just with the different rates to see which works out better. No, no, no. The Coronavirus is down to the Torys. Just like the World financial crisis was Labours fault. Thems the rules... Jimmy Savile must have been down to the Lib Dems then. #Previous.
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Post by bathstoke on Mar 14, 2020 16:12:47 GMT
No, no, no. The Coronavirus is down to the Torys. Just like the World financial crisis was Labours fault. Thems the rules... Jimmy Savile must have been down to the Lib Dems then. #Previous. No, but Cyril Smith was
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 14, 2020 16:14:13 GMT
Jimmy Savile must have been down to the Lib Dems then. #Previous. No, but Cyril Smith was Sorry, Clement Fruedian slip there.
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 18, 2020 22:31:35 GMT
Good old Guy never lets a crisis pass without using it to push for more EU they can legislate the power of your vacuum cleaner but dont have the means to stop people dying, what a wanker.
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Post by felonious on Mar 19, 2020 5:29:00 GMT
Good old Guy never lets a crisis pass without using it to push for more EU they can legislate the power of your vacuum cleaner but dont have the means to stop people dying, what a wanker. On the news they've just caught up with the actions of Germany and France who have just blown the state aid package rules out of the water. They're still probably huddled in rooms worried about borders being closed and free movement of citizens. They've proved they're an absolute irrelevance in a crisis like this.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 19, 2020 12:24:46 GMT
Good old Guy never lets a crisis pass without using it to push for more EU they can legislate the power of your vacuum cleaner but dont have the means to stop people dying, what a wanker. He's a wanker, but he's right in this instance. If they do something protest politicians claim they're overruling sovereign countries. If they don't the same people say they are irrelevant.
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 19, 2020 14:22:04 GMT
Good old Guy never lets a crisis pass without using it to push for more EU they can legislate the power of your vacuum cleaner but dont have the means to stop people dying, what a wanker. He's a wanker, but he's right in this instance. If they do something protest politicians claim they're overruling sovereign countries. If they don't the same people say they are irrelevant. I would say thousands dying and neighbouring countries not helping and borders remaining open is one of those times they should be overruling sovereign countries, power of your cacuum, size of your cucumber or whatever not so much.... Seems alot of angry europeans replying to him who actually want the EU gone and back to the EEC not surprising really as there's not a single country whose voters ever voted for the EU as it is, many have voted against and just been ignored or told to vote again, even more have never been allowed a vote.
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Post by georgieboy52 on Mar 19, 2020 15:59:14 GMT
When the issue of Brexit was debated some people put alot of store by economic forecasts, as though they were a defining scientific fact....usually used as "evidence" that we should not leave the Political union. Whilst I believe in trying to forecast/ budget within reason clearly the future cannot be predicted.....the economic , political, climatic , personal or entrepreneurial future ...with certainty....many of us said that....it may depend upon the character and endeavour of the UK and likewise the EU. The predictions didn't include the fact that a virus COULD cause a world recession.......Many factors impact upon our well being and prospects. Indeed. It will be interesting to see the future debate. If we do poorly economically, Leavers will blame Coronavirus and Remainers will blame leaving the EU. Whatever the outcome, the arguments will keep on rolling for years to come. Brexit isn't and never has been solely about economics-as important as economics are. If you believe in the EU as a political project and you believe in Federalism. That's a fair enough position to hold. The referendum and the latest general election shows clearly enough that more people than not believe in national sovereignty and democratic accountability.
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 21, 2020 10:46:02 GMT
The good old EU looking after everyone as always
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Post by franklin66 on Mar 21, 2020 11:00:33 GMT
The good old EU looking after everyone as always Absolutely disgusting to interfere or try to the ignorance of the consequences to the economy is staggering. And to think some wanted millions out if work weeks ago by advocating tougher sanctions off the bat defies belief.
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Post by starkiller on Mar 25, 2020 1:38:42 GMT
Good old Guy never lets a crisis pass without using it to push for more EU they can legislate the power of your vacuum cleaner but dont have the means to stop people dying, what a wanker. Well he is a man of contradictions. Always banging the drum for Europe this, and Europe that. Yet he wants to fill it with Africa and Asia. A contradiction if ever there was one.
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Post by numpty40 on Apr 3, 2020 18:39:58 GMT
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